Could It Be That Many Conservatives Are Getting As Bad As Liberals?

[Olde Europe]

The difference is that when proven wrong, a good conservative will change his views and conceded your point

Three examples for this, and I'll concede your point. Go!

Sorry, I have better things to do with my time than to spend all day hunting USMB when the Content and other features aren't even working right just to try to find examples of things you may not agree with anyway. This thread alone should be enough proof for you. It won't be.

Since you are not prepared to back it up, we shall consider your claim retracted. I am fine with that.

You've decried "liberalism" as an "illness" or a "disease". Diseases are to be guarded against, maybe cured, but never argued with, much less conceded to. That puts you in a column from which, in your OP, you tried to distance yourself. You probably won't concede it, but perhaps you can appreciate the funny.

 

[Mac1958]

There is no retreat.........no surrender at this point..........That's just the way it is now.

Well, that's the problem.

Some on both ends have been convinced to believe that this is essentially war. It isn't, of course. It's more about ego and tribalism.

Screaming and refusing to listen is much easier than dropping the ego and collaborating. This is a choice you're making.

There are some who believe that it has been so long since we communicated like adults, that we've literally lost the skill. I'd agree with that.
.

BS........we ignored them for decades and they never stop.

You demand our side be tolerant when the other side tries intimidation, Character Assassinations, and the use of gov't agencies to destroy political opponents.

We are not the problem...........they are ..........They either become civilized or they will eventually run in to people who will not stand down.....or give a damn about their intimidation.

The Fact that they haven't been beaten down doing this shows that we have been tolerant............But there is a point to which it will no longer be tolerated.

You can only turn the cheek so many times..............Most of the violence in this country is in Population Centers.........Cities that are primarily blue............Not in rural areas...........and not in Red areas on the map.

At some point in time maybe you'll recognize that the violence and intolerance in this country is almost ALWAYS IN BLUE VOTING DISTRICTS.

I'd like to see both sides grow up and act like adults. That's it.

That means listening, communicating, and working together.

Our wings behave in ways for which we would scold our children.
.

Working together............pfft.............They have no intentions of that unless you have been living under a rock.

I'm not your dang child you Hypocrite.........Adults go to War with Nations when all reasonable means have ended.........Show me where the left is reasonable anymore.......

Your pompus attitude hasn't changed............I'd just advice you to duck standing in no mans land.

Okay, Rambo.
.

 

[harmonica]

There is no retreat.........no surrender at this point..........That's just the way it is now.

Well, that's the problem.

Some on both ends have been convinced to believe that this is essentially war. It isn't, of course. It's more about ego and tribalism.

Screaming and refusing to listen is much easier than dropping the ego and collaborating. This is a choice you're making.

There are some who believe that it has been so long since we communicated like adults, that we've literally lost the skill. I'd agree with that.
.

BS........we ignored them for decades and they never stop.

You demand our side be tolerant when the other side tries intimidation, Character Assassinations, and the use of gov't agencies to destroy political opponents.

We are not the problem...........they are ..........They either become civilized or they will eventually run in to people who will not stand down.....or give a damn about their intimidation.

The Fact that they haven't been beaten down doing this shows that we have been tolerant............But there is a point to which it will no longer be tolerated.

You can only turn the cheek so many times..............Most of the violence in this country is in Population Centers.........Cities that are primarily blue............Not in rural areas...........and not in Red areas on the map.

At some point in time maybe you'll recognize that the violence and intolerance in this country is almost ALWAYS IN BLUE VOTING DISTRICTS.

I'd like to see both sides grow up and act like adults. That's it.

That means listening, communicating, and working together.

Our wings behave in ways for which we would scold our children.
.

Hard to stay civil and adult when many you argue with behave as children.

....I've remained civil since your name calling/etc
not that hard
..YOU are behaving like a child

 

[Mac1958]

There is no retreat.........no surrender at this point..........That's just the way it is now.

Well, here's a symptom of the problem.

Some on both ends have been convinced to believe that this is essentially war. It isn't, of course. It's more about ego and tribalism.

I have to disagree. Eagle has a POINT. It IS a war. It was started a long time ago by the Left. They have gone full out bonkers attacking evertythimng from GW Bush, to Trump, Guns, Christianity, American and Family Values, worst of all, they usually don't even use valid, legitimate points in their defense, they MAKE STUFF UP, blatantly LIE, in order to support their position. Outright unreasonable. The character assassination of Trump has been beyond the pale. They boycotted yesterdays 4th celebration; had that been Obama, it would have been on every channel.

SO LET'S BE REAL:

• The war on the Left has been an offensive one.
• The war on the Right has mainly been a DEFENSIVE one.

The Left is trying to overcome and eliminate. The Right is merely trying to survive.

I used to think that we might be able to advance to a place at which people could rise above this madness.

I've changed my mind on that.

I think there will be people who have the capacity to move us forward as a country, and those who can't just won't be a part of the conversation. They'll just have to be marginalized.
.

 

[Rambunctious]

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..... And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue".....

Barry Goldwater

Those words hold true but can be abused....

 

[Oddball]

I'd like to see both sides grow up and act like adults. That's it.

That means listening, communicating, and working together.

Our wings behave in ways for which we would scold our children.
.

Their "growing up and acting like adults" has given us Medicare/Medicaid, the Great Society welfare state, global military hegemony, an explosion in the expansion of the bureaucratic administrative state, DHS and the TSA, NSA spying, $21 trillion in debt.

If that's "acting like adults", gimmie some acting like children for a change.

 

[Mac1958]

I'd like to see both sides grow up and act like adults. That's it.

That means listening, communicating, and working together.

Our wings behave in ways for which we would scold our children.
.

Their "growing up and acting like adults" has given us Medicare/Medicaid, the Great Society welfare state, global military hegemony, an explosion in the expansion of the bureaucratic administrative state, DHS and the TSA, NSA spying, $21 trillion in debt.

If that's "acting like adults", gimmie some acting like children for a change.

Well, that's what we're getting.
.

 

[Manonthestreet]

 

[toobfreak]

Many on the Left ARE communist and socialist sympathizers who want anarchy and hate their country...

They're either socialists/communists or anarchists...There's a great difference between the two.

...but there are enough on the Left that are real bloodthirsty violent Neocons as well. I've even been stalked by a few.

Neocons are leftists by definition.

No, I've run into a few people here that had valid views on many conservative issues then proved to be absolute LOONS, others that BRAGGED about what great "conservatives" they were then showed they were flaming buttholes. Worst of all, often simply over differences of viewpoint or opinion.

It made me realize its NO WONDER why many on the Left think so poorly of the Right.

Then, as I have pointed out for a couple decades now, the word "conservative" is totally meaningless.

Not at all. How can it be? If it is, then so is liberal (and it isn't).

To be "conservative" , IMO, you:

1. Uphold traditional values.
2. Believe that the Constitution as written is the absolute and final arbiter of things.
3. Are hopefully, intelligent, educated, thoughtful, fair and open minded.

Liberals/Leftists are forever bucking traditional values wanting "Progressivism."
Are forever trying to throw out, change or ignore the Constitution as a "Living Document."
While often seemingly educated and erudite, the Left often seem that common sense, fairness and open-mindedness and tolerance elude them.

MY PROBLEM HERE is that some on the Right as JUST AS BAD in that regard. So it isn't conservatism that is at fault here, it is the way some today display or use it.

 

[alang1216]

I might even agree with you on the diagnosis that this place - say, its debate culture - is in freefall.

Since this is the only "social media" I've ever belonged to other than professional and science groups where everyone is polite, professional and capable of self-restraint, I cannot say, other than to say that many of the people here are shocking that they can ever hold jobs. As to your Left/Right thing, no, most of the intelligent reasonable discussion here comes from the Right. Most of the worst spin and trash talk comes from the Left. The difference is that when proven wrong, a good conservative will change his views and conceded your point, many on the Left here adamantly stridently anti-Trump NEVER do.

I think you're making the common mistake of judging your side by their best and the opposition by their worst. Do you really think the previous 3 posts from yours were intelligent reasonable discussion?

 

[toobfreak]

The difference is that when proven wrong, a good conservative will change his views and conceded your point

Three examples for this, and I'll concede your point. Go!

Sorry, I have better things to do with my time than to spend all day hunting USMB when the Content and other features aren't even working right just to try to find examples of things you may not agree with anyway. This thread alone should be enough proof for you. It won't be.

Since you are not prepared to back it up, we shall consider your claim retracted. I am fine with that..

I've retracted nothing. Don't come here playing your silly little game of setting up "conditions" you know no one will be willing to meet so then you can call it a victory.

.

You've decried "liberalism" as an "illness" or a "disease". Diseases are to be guarded against, maybe cured, but never argued with, much less conceded to. That puts you in a column from which, in your OP, you tried to distance yourself. You probably won't concede it, but perhaps you can appreciate the funny.

I've distanced myself from nothing. I'm one of the most stridently conservative people on this board. I've never denied that. But neither do I necessarily consider myself a republican. But I can be reasonable, fair, even persuaded by facts. The point of my OP is that most of the Left CANNOT. And unfortunately, even some on the Right.

 

[Third Party]

In being on this forum a few years now, I've noted that most of the total idiots are on the Left. But over time I've been surprised that some conservatives I thought were fairly intelligent and reasonable people go off into deep end just as badly with loony conspiracy theory about the Moon being hollow or even shooting a victim not just until they are subdued and helpless, not even stopping after they are down, but even continue firing into the person until they totally stop MOVING.

Let me start spraying you with 9mm fire and see if you just lay there unmoving not reacting to the pain or trying to protect yourself. If it is a .45, you might still move just from the hydrostatic shock.

BOTTOM LINE: Many on the Left ARE communist and socialist sympathizers who want anarchy and hate their country, but there are enough on the Left that are real bloodthirsty violent Neocons as well. I've even been stalked by a few.

What I've noticed is that while there are quite a few intelligent and reasonable people here, nearly all conservative, for many, when push comes to shove, when it really gets down to it, when a lot of conservatives or maybe republicans or "Right-Wing" disagree, their methods are NO BETTER than the worst on the Left.

You people all use THE SAME METHODS.

Many on the Left and the Right are just as bad as the other, use the exact same methods, and both act like stupid schoolchildren.

I'll entertain any intelligent discussion.

I agree and disagree. Sorry to disappoint everybody, but most liberals are for relaxed "moral" laws and government intervention to solve big problems, like war, old age poverty and medical. Most conservatives are for balanced budgets, law and order, and small business. The loud left and greedy right get the headlines, but most Americans are better than that. They are not racist, but do not prop up any particular groups. They are not war mongers but will fight when provoked. Think about it-if you mix the left with the right, what do you get? The center.

 

[S.J.]

Civil discourse ended the day Trump came down the elevator. Not because of Trump, but because of what he represented, the only viable candidate who could not and would not be bought. I don't think people realize (including Trump) just how hell bent on destroying this republic the left is. Trump represents defeat to the left and his election totally destroyed their plans to seize absolute power by 2020. A Trump presidency is apocalyptic for them and they're seeing red because he (and his supporters) are patriots, and patriotism is the natural enemy of tyrants. His presidency has driven them to declare war, not just against the right, but against ANYONE who doesn't walk in lockstep with them and their agenda.
There is no point in trying to be civil with someone who sees you as their enemy and seeks to destroy you in any and every way they can. And anyone who can't see the extremism and complete loss of reason with these people isn't living in reality.

 

[martybegan]

There is no retreat.........no surrender at this point..........That's just the way it is now.

Well, here's a symptom of the problem.

Some on both ends have been convinced to believe that this is essentially war. It isn't, of course. It's more about ego and tribalism.

I have to disagree. Eagle has a POINT. It IS a war. It was started a long time ago by the Left. They have gone full out bonkers attacking evertythimng from GW Bush, to Trump, Guns, Christianity, American and Family Values, worst of all, they usually don't even use valid, legitimate points in their defense, they MAKE STUFF UP, blatantly LIE, in order to support their position. Outright unreasonable. The character assassination of Trump has been beyond the pale. They boycotted yesterdays 4th celebration; had that been Obama, it would have been on every channel.

SO LET'S BE REAL:

• The war on the Left has been an offensive one.
• The war on the Right has mainly been a DEFENSIVE one.

The Left is trying to overcome and eliminate. The Right is merely trying to survive.

I used to think that we might be able to advance to a place at which people could rise above this madness.

I've changed my mind on that.

I think there will be people who have the capacity to move us forward as a country, and those who can't just won't be a part of the conversation. They'll just have to be marginalized.
.

The madness results from progressives only being happy with a 110% win for their side. No compromise, ever.

As an example, with the whole cake baking thing. The bakers in question have no issue with point of sale items being sold to anyone, they just want to not have to make custom items for an event they find morally wrong.

They are not trying to stop the event, they just want nothing to do with it.

Not good enough for progressives, so they have to be forced to comply upon pain of ruin.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Civil discourse ended the day Trump came down the elevator. Not because of Trump, but because of what he represented, the only viable candidate who could not and would not be bought. I don't think people realize (including Trump) just how hell bent on destroying this republic the left is. Trump represents defeat to the left and his election totally destroyed their plans to seize absolute power by 2020. A Trump presidency is apocalyptic for them and they're seeing red because he (and his supporters) are patriots, and patriotism is the natural enemy of tyrants. His presidency has driven them to declare war, not just against the right, but against ANYONE who doesn't walk in lockstep with them and their agenda.
There is no point in trying to be civil with someone who sees you as their enemy and seeks to destroy you in any and every way they can. And anyone who can't see the extremism and complete loss of reason with these people isn't living in reality.

Not because of Trump, but because of what he represented, the only viable candidate who could not and would not be bought.

 

[Olde Europe]

I've retracted nothing. Don't come here playing your silly little game of setting up "conditions" you know no one will be willing to meet so then you can call it a victory.

.

You've decried "liberalism" as an "illness" or a "disease". Diseases are to be guarded against, maybe cured, but never argued with, much less conceded to. That puts you in a column from which, in your OP, you tried to distance yourself. You probably won't concede it, but perhaps you can appreciate the funny.

I've distanced myself from nothing. I'm one of the most stridently conservative people on this board. I've never denied that. But neither do I necessarily consider myself a republican. But I can be reasonable, fair, even persuaded by facts. The point of my OP is that most of the Left CANNOT. And unfortunately, even some on the Right.

Fact: You asserted conservatives concede when shown wrong.

Fact: You refused to back it up.

Fact: Debate rules are, you back it up or retract.

Fact: Your claim conservatives concede when shown wrong is to be considered retracted.

Show how much you are prepared to be persuaded by facts, being, as you assured us, "reasonable, fair, even persuaded by facts."

As to your assertion you "distanced [your]self from nothing", we shall also be allowed to assert you behave like a stupid schoolchild - for that is what your OP (from which you didn't distance yourself) asserted. That means you are just like the "stupid schoolchildren" you decried in your OP. Agreed?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

In being on this forum a few years now, I've noted that most of the total idiots are on the Left. But over time I've been surprised that some conservatives I thought were fairly intelligent and reasonable people go off into deep end just as badly with loony conspiracy theory about the Moon being hollow or even shooting a victim not just until they are subdued and helpless, not even stopping after they are down, but even continue firing into the person until they totally stop MOVING.

Let me start spraying you with 9mm fire and see if you just lay there unmoving not reacting to the pain or trying to protect yourself. If it is a .45, you might still move just from the hydrostatic shock.

BOTTOM LINE: Many on the Left ARE communist and socialist sympathizers who want anarchy and hate their country, but there are enough on the Left that are real bloodthirsty violent Neocons as well. I've even been stalked by a few.

What I've noticed is that while there are quite a few intelligent and reasonable people here, nearly all conservative, for many, when push comes to shove, when it really gets down to it, when a lot of conservatives or maybe republicans or "Right-Wing" disagree, their methods are NO BETTER than the worst on the Left.

You people all use THE SAME METHODS.

Many on the Left and the Right are just as bad as the other, use the exact same methods, and both act like stupid schoolchildren.

I'll entertain any intelligent discussion.

.....is this thread posted because of you being beaten in the ''knife'' thread??
..it all comes down to FACTS--what's real--what's bullshit

Look troll, no one beat me in any thread. Your bullshit posts there as well as here just proved my point. What, are you stalking me now? ANSWER THE QUESTION. You had no defensible answer to my question that if I shoot you ONCE in the groin with a .45, you are going down and are no longer a threat to anyone and don't need shot 15 more times until lifeless. Now if you cannot stick to the topic here, get off it.

That would depend on whether the person had a firearm or not.
I'm shooting till I know he cant shoot back if he does.

 

[Oddball]

I'd like to see both sides grow up and act like adults. That's it.

That means listening, communicating, and working together.

Our wings behave in ways for which we would scold our children.
.

Their "growing up and acting like adults" has given us Medicare/Medicaid, the Great Society welfare state, global military hegemony, an explosion in the expansion of the bureaucratic administrative state, DHS and the TSA, NSA spying, $21 trillion in debt.

If that's "acting like adults", gimmie some acting like children for a change.

Well, that's what we're getting.
.

No, what we're getting is the left (which includes an alarming number of republicans) exposing the natural end result of their philosophy: aggression and violence....Republicans played along with their foolhardiness in the name of "acting like adults" for numerous decades, and now the gig is up.

 

[Mac1958]

I'd like to see both sides grow up and act like adults. That's it.

That means listening, communicating, and working together.

Our wings behave in ways for which we would scold our children.
.

Their "growing up and acting like adults" has given us Medicare/Medicaid, the Great Society welfare state, global military hegemony, an explosion in the expansion of the bureaucratic administrative state, DHS and the TSA, NSA spying, $21 trillion in debt.

If that's "acting like adults", gimmie some acting like children for a change.

Well, that's what we're getting.
.

No, what we're getting is the left (which includes an alarming number of republicans) exposing the natural end result of their philosophy: aggression and violence....Republicans played along with their foolhardiness in the name of "acting like adults" for numerous decades, and now the gig is up.

Do you think the GOP is acting like adults?

Do you think Trump ever acts like a child?
.

 

[toobfreak]

In being on this forum a few years now, I've noted that most of the total idiots are on the Left. But over time I've been surprised that some conservatives I thought were fairly intelligent and reasonable people go off into deep end just as badly with loony conspiracy theory about the Moon being hollow or even shooting a victim not just until they are subdued and helpless, not even stopping after they are down, but even continue firing into the person until they totally stop MOVING.

Let me start spraying you with 9mm fire and see if you just lay there unmoving not reacting to the pain or trying to protect yourself. If it is a .45, you might still move just from the hydrostatic shock.

BOTTOM LINE: Many on the Left ARE communist and socialist sympathizers who want anarchy and hate their country, but there are enough on the Left that are real bloodthirsty violent Neocons as well. I've even been stalked by a few.

What I've noticed is that while there are quite a few intelligent and reasonable people here, nearly all conservative, for many, when push comes to shove, when it really gets down to it, when a lot of conservatives or maybe republicans or "Right-Wing" disagree, their methods are NO BETTER than the worst on the Left.

You people all use THE SAME METHODS.

Many on the Left and the Right are just as bad as the other, use the exact same methods, and both act like stupid schoolchildren.

I'll entertain any intelligent discussion.

.....is this thread posted because of you being beaten in the ''knife'' thread??
..it all comes down to FACTS--what's real--what's bullshit

Look troll, no one beat me in any thread. Your bullshit posts there as well as here just proved my point. What, are you stalking me now? ANSWER THE QUESTION. You had no defensible answer to my question that if I shoot you ONCE in the groin with a .45, you are going down and are no longer a threat to anyone and don't need shot 15 more times until lifeless. Now if you cannot stick to the topic here, get off it.

That would depend on whether the person had a firearm or not.
I'm shooting till I know he cant shoot back if he does.

No. It was just some crazy idiot with a knife and a death wish. Could have been stopped with pepper spray by anyone with half a mind.