Could Ali have resisted Dempsey?

[katsteve2012]

"experts" are just political scumers. Go with Ali-style on street and you will understand the price of this

"experts" are just political scumers. Go with Ali-style on street and you will understand the price of this

Street fighting is an entirely different topic, so comparing the two is pointless.


It's up to you if you choose to dismiss the opinions and expertise of those who have actually fought professionally or trained those who have fought professionally, but I'm not going to do that.

That being said, The Ring Magazine has been one of the most respected publications that covers the sport of boxing for close to 100 years.

Argue with them.

From THE RING: The greatest heavyweight of all time - The Ring

Author Thomas Hauser conducted a poll of 30 boxing experts to determine which big man personifies greatness in the glamour division.

www.ringtv.com

 

[Quasar44]

ROFLMAO! Of course Marciano never lost.

He fought during an era of competition whose collective record consisted of almost as many losses as wins.
Look it up.

As far as which fighters studied whom, Ali closely studied Sugar Ray Robinson, who was widely regarded as the best boxer in history by most credible boxing historians.

Armstrong was also considered one of best

 

[WinterBorn]

"experts" are just political scumers. Go with Ali-style on street and you will understand the price of this

First it is boxing and now it is street fighting?

Ali was one of the greatest boxers ever. Deal with it.

 

[katsteve2012]

Armstrong was also considered one of best

Agreed. He was the only boxer in history to hold 3 world titles all at the same time.

Henry Armstrong, the first man to simultaneously hold three...

Henry Armstrong, the first man to simultaneously hold three official world boxing titles, has died, his family said Sunday. He was 75....

www.upi.com

 

[multivita-man]

ROFLMAO! Of course Marciano never lost.

He fought during an era of competition whose collective record consisted of almost as many losses as wins.
Look it up.

As far as which fighters studied whom, Ali closely studied Sugar Ray Robinson, who was widely regarded as the best boxer in history by most credible boxing historians.

Marciano was an exceptional fighter. He wasn't even a true heavyweight, but many of the guys he beat were bigger than he was.

Just a hypothesis of mine but the fact that you had 185-pound guys fighting against 210-pounders is, to me, indicative of maybe slightly less quality in the heavies. I can't imagine that at any time since I've watched boxing, a 185-pounder would agree to walk into the ring against a 215-pounder.

 

[katsteve2012]

Marciano was an exceptional fighter. He wasn't even a true heavyweight, but many of the guys he beat were bigger than he was.

Just a hypothesis of mine but the fact that you had 185-pound guys fighting against 210-pounders is, to me, indicative of maybe slightly less quality in the heavies. I can't imagine that at any time since I've watched boxing, a 185-pounder would agree to walk into the ring against a 215-pounder.

Agreed. Marciano absolutely was exceptional in terms of conditioning, determination and courage.

IMO, adding the cruiserweight division some years ago provided a less dangerous path for fighters who were a little to big to be light heavyweights and not big enough to effectively compete against larger heavyweights.

 

[multivita-man]

Agreed. Marciano absolutely was exceptional in terms of conditioning, determination and courage.

IMO, adding the cruiserweight division some years ago provided a less dangerous path for fighters who were a little to big to be light heavyweights and not big enough to effectively compete against larger heavyweights.

Marciano could also take a punch, and that matters. That's why he was so fearless because he probably knew that they couldn't hurt him the way he could hurt them. His 'style' wasn't pretty but it was effective. He was a raging bull, who punched and mauled opponents with deadly accuracy, and would literally hit any part of the body that was legal to hit, including biceps.

 

[katsteve2012]

Marciano could also take a punch, and that matters. That's why he was so fearless because he probably knew that they couldn't hurt him the way he could hurt them. His 'style' wasn't pretty but it was effective. He was a raging bull, who punched and mauled opponents with deadly accuracy, and would literally hit any part of the body that was legal to hit, including biceps.

Correct. One of Marcianos most effective tactics was to pound his opponents biceps and shoulders until they literally could not hold their hands up, then when the hands came down he would finish them, he was definitely a beast.

 

[rupol2000]

Marciano was an exceptional fighter. He wasn't even a true heavyweight, but many of the guys he beat were bigger than he was.

Is this "exclusively" a nerd? Wasn't Tyson smaller than his rivals? And Dempsey?

First it is boxing and now it is street fighting?

Such "boxing" is not needed in America. These were traditionally thrown with eggs. If not for Kennedy, Islamic radicals and big money, Ali would have been pelted with rotten eggs, as required by old good tradition

 

[multivita-man]

Is this "exclusively" a nerd? Wasn't Tyson smaller than his rivals? And Dempsey?

Did Tyson and Dempsey go 49-0 with 43 wins by KO? Didn't think so, lol.

 

[rupol2000]

Did Tyson and Dempsey go 49-0 with 43 wins by KO? Didn't think so, lol.

Unlike the ali, these were great boxers.

 

[multivita-man]

Did Ali ever get knocked out by some no-name chump like Buster Douglas?

 

[multivita-man]

It is understandable that everyone is not an Ali fan, however there is no denying that he was possibly the fastest heavyweight in history.

All one has to do is watch his films, and read the opinions of credible boxing professionals, most notably his former opponents to know this.

People talk of Tyson's head movement, which I fully acknowledge was beautiful before the age of 25. But Ali moved his whole body better than Tyson's. Ali had just unparalleled footwork, and he was able to turn away from punches at just the right time to minimize impact. He was also quite adept at counterpunching and making opponents pay when they got too close.

And as was the case with Tyson, Ali's speed was also his power. In terms of who could punch harder I probably would give the edge to Tyson just because his upper body was so incredibly and naturally strong, but mechanically, being as short as he was put Tyson at a disadvantage against taller, rangier fighters, and that eventually caught up to Tyson in later years.

But the reason I'd ultimately pick Ali over Tyson in an imaginary matchup isn't because of Ali's quickness, but his ability to take punishment and his stamina. Tyson would probably come out swinging and land some big shots early, but hell, if Big George Foreman in his prime couldn't KO Ali, I don't see how Mike Tyson would have - prime Ali and prime Tyson, we're talking. Maybe young 22-year-old Tyson against 33- to 35-year-old Ali - I could see Tyson winning that matchup. In that match-up Tyson hurts Ali for 12 rounds, not knocking him out but making his ribs and cheeks hurt for a few weeks.

 

[multivita-man]

famouse phantom punch?

He got stopped twice. I do think Liston was older than his officially stated age, but still, IIRC Liston was the reigning champ in their first fight.

 

[katsteve2012]

People talk of Tyson's head movement, which I fully acknowledge was beautiful before the age of 25. But Ali moved his whole body better than Tyson's. Ali had just unparalleled footwork, and he was able to turn away from punches at just the right time to minimize impact. He was also quite adept at counterpunching and making opponents pay when they got too close.

And as was the case with Tyson, Ali's speed was also his power. In terms of who could punch harder I probably would give the edge to Tyson just because his upper body was so incredibly and naturally strong, but mechanically, being as short as he was put Tyson at a disadvantage against taller, rangier fighters, and that eventually caught up to Tyson in later years.

But the reason I'd ultimately pick Ali over Tyson in an imaginary matchup isn't because of Ali's quickness, but his ability to take punishment and his stamina. Tyson would probably come out swinging and land some big shots early, but hell, if Big George Foreman in his prime couldn't KO Ali, I don't see how Mike Tyson would have - prime Ali and prime Tyson, we're talking. Maybe young 22-year-old Tyson against 33- to 35-year-old Ali - I could see Tyson winning that matchup. In that match-up Tyson hurts Ali for 12 rounds, not knocking him out but making his ribs and cheeks hurt for a few weeks.

You made some excellent points, and I would have summarized Ali and Tyson exactly as you did.

I was fortunate enough to see Ali fight live during several different points in his career. My dad took me to the Astrodome in 1966 to see him fight Cleveland Williams. Many Ali fans believe that this fight showcased Ali at his best in terms of speed, footwork, head movement, and combination punching, and I would have to agree.

I can't think of any heavyweight fighter who ever equaled the skill level that he showed in that fight.



I also was at his first fight with Frazier in The Garden, he wasn't as fast, but we discovered that he could take a punch. The left hook that Frazier landed in the 15th round, sounded like a gunshot, but he was on his feet in 3 seconds.

When I saw him fight Foreman, nobody that I knew thought that he would win, but he found a way using his intelligence, which I think was the variable that distinguished him as a different type of fighter.

He could find a way to adapt to almost any type of style.

Interestingly we will never know how good Ali really could have been, because he lost almost 4 years of what should have been his peak fighting time from the age of 25 to 29.