CDZ Could (actual) Conservatives support this kind of single payer?

[dblack]

My guess is everyone needs to stop voting republican and/or democrat for at least 4 years. And not vote for an incumbent.
Lobbyist wouldn't know what to do. And the establishment wouldn't be so established.
Then problems might get worked out.

I suspect we'd fall right back into the same pattern soon enough.

The problem is that Congress has too much power. When that much is on the line, when they can make or break an entire industry by passing laws, the members of that industry will do whatever they can to sway the outcome.

 

[YoursTruly]

Then you should be thanking your lucky stars for insurance companies, who assume the risk that people, like yourself, are going to eat into everyone else's premiums.

Your insurance agent deserves a big, sloppy, wet kiss right on the mouth.

My insurance company did nothing but collect money, and pay out some of it to the people who actually do things to help me.

 

[YoursTruly]

I suspect we'd fall right back into the same pattern soon enough.

Oh yeah. I agree. I'd give the LP about 6 years max before they started getting corrupt.

The problem is that Congress has too much power. When that much is on the line, when they can make or break an entire industry by passing laws, the members of that industry will do whatever they can to sway the outcome.

i ain't skeered.

 

[dblack]

Oh yeah. I agree. I'd give the LP about 6 years max before they started getting corrupt.


i ain't skeered.

I am. Congress will continue to grab more and more power and the lobbying will become more and more intense.

 

[YoursTruly]

I am. Congress will continue to grab more and more power and the lobbying will become more and more intense.

People should not be afraid of their government.
What I am scared of is the one's in place getting replaced by antifa, BLM and hard core Trump supporters. A pack of complete morons.

 

[Donald H]

Is it that important, either way? I mean seriously. Neither side can prove the existence or the in-existence of a God. Life had to start from something.
I mean seriously. Obviously the bible, Quran and the others got it wrong. BUT life did start somewhere.
So what if someone has faith. When Christians start eating your young, then you can bitch about it.

Yes, it's important. Christianity and other religions do tremendous harm. There's no need to get into the details.

Life started somewhere isn't even a safe proclamation, as is saying the universe started somewhere and sometime. The human brain isn't capable of understanding. But that doesn' mean humanity should accept some nonsensical easy answer.

The Christian bible with all it's lies discredits that theory.

 

[Donald H]

People should not be afraid of their government.
What I am scared of is the one's in place getting replaced by antifa, BLM and hard core Trump supporters. A pack of complete morons.

Those who protest bad government will need to come together as a united cause. It appeared that Trump had made a start on that with his Jan.6 riots but he chose to do it with a selfish selfserving cause that he didn't have the confidence see through by leading.
His revolutionaries were left sitting around with their feet up on desks when they could have easily searched out congress persons and acted. It was a revolution attempt without leadership.
But it was a beginning of a movement by ordinary Americans that could be revived under sane leadership with a worthwhile cause!

 

[dblack]

Those who protest bad government will need to come together as a united cause. It appeared that Trump had made a start on that with his Jan.6 riots but he chose to do it with a selfish selfserving cause that he didn't have the confidence see through by leading.
His revolutionaries were left sitting around with their feet up on desks when they could have easily searched out congress persons and acted. It was a revolution attempt without leadership.
But it was a beginning of a movement by ordinary Americans that could be revived under sane leadership with a worthwhile cause!

The problem isn't so much "bad government" as it is what you, and others, want to do with government - ie way too much. Government is coercion and the threat of violence for those who don't comply. We should only resort to that when it's truly necessary. Most of the time, it's not.

 

[fncceo]

My insurance company did nothing but collect money, and pay out some of it to the people who actually do things to help me.

Which is their precise function. The is precisely what they're in business to do. That is exactly what they advertise they will do.

If you were unclear about how insurance works, that is on you, not them.

If you were clear but still unhappy about the process, why did you pay them all those premiums?

 

[YoursTruly]

Which is their precise function. The is precisely what they're in business to do. That is exactly what they advertise they will do.

If you were unclear about how insurance works, that is on you, not them.

If you were clear but still unhappy about the process, why did you pay them all those premiums?

Understanding something doesn't make it right or efficient. I say the MP's can do it cheaper and more efficient.
You don't.

So there's no need in arguing about it.

To each his own, bro.

 

[YoursTruly]

Those who protest bad government will need to come together as a united cause. It appeared that Trump had made a start on that with his Jan.6 riots but he chose to do it with a selfish selfserving cause that he didn't have the confidence see through by leading.
His revolutionaries were left sitting around with their feet up on desks when they could have easily searched out congress persons and acted. It was a revolution attempt without leadership.
But it was a beginning of a movement by ordinary Americans that could be revived under sane leadership with a worthwhile cause!

As true as that might be, the south, with millions, couldn't defeat the USA. When the donations die down, so will BLM. Hopefully the kids of antifa are looking at their parents like the morons they are and won't follow in their shoes.
I think a lot of folks are just not paying much attention to BLM, antifa and white supremist. That's the best weapon to use against attention whores, is to just not give them any attention.

Black woman telling the truth about BLM and antifa. White liberals triggered.

 

[fncceo]

Understanding something doesn't make it right or efficient. I say the MP's can do it cheaper and more efficient.

I'm not saying that at all.

The only way medical practitioners could lower the cost of medical expenses would be to band together to effectively increase purchasing power.

Insurance companies have already done this. HMOs remove much of the overhead (and most of the personalized service) from medical treatment. A national HMO has tremendous purchasing power with suppliers of drugs and medical equipment. They can also control the costs of doctors and nurses, bad news for any who spent $200,000 getting through medical school.

If every person in America self-insured, insurance would not be necessary. But, unfortunately, that's not the case. Any physician run system would have to offer an insurance scheme for their patients to afford the treatments.

When people advocate "single-payer", which is a euphemism for taxpayer funded health care, they are talking about trading an efficient system, privately funded, that must keep costs low as possible to stay in business, with a government bureaucracy with absolutely no incentive to lower costs and where the cost of medical care in real terms will continue to spiral out of control until the system, like it is in Australia, Canada, and England, is overburdened and unmanageable.

 

[kseeding]

I wonder what will happen to the folks who already have medicare...Medicaid...private insurance if this single payer gets approve?

 

[Mark Richard]

I don't understand why republicans and most conservatives can't support a single payer system, ran by medical professionals. Although I do understand them not wanting it ran by our government. That's understandable. For the simple fact that the government can't run most things that benefit most of "we the people." A good example of this is the USD value. Now, $10hr is a poverty wage. Where as just south of the border, $10hr is an upper class wage.
But I digress. Fighting against a single payer system is nothing more than fighting in favor of health insurance companies. Who constantly screw the medical professionals out of a lot of money.
Healthcare has to be paid for, no matter who you are. Everyone is going to need medical help. And those that help you, will have to get paid. Insurance companies get paid by us. And they pay the MP (Medical professionals). But where they screw the MP's, is how much they pay the MPs for your care.
Example: When I was with Blue Cross Blue shield, I had an osteotomy on my knee. The hospital and doctor billed the insurance company over $100,000. That included all the doctor visits, surgeon visits, physical therapy & drugs. Blue Cross paid a little less than $3,000 in total. My doctor said that Medicare pays them better than Blue Cross. How sick is that?
Counting my premiums, the insurance company got paid a LOT more than the MP's that actually fixed my knee problem. Thousands more.
Let's be honest about this. Health insurance companies (or all of them) are nothing more than money brokers. We pay them and they pay the MP's what they want to pay them. Then they keep the rest for profits.
As a conservative, I'm always in support of cutting out the middle man.
I think the BEST way to solve this problem, is the MP's starting their own nationwide health insurance company. That way, they can own and operate within their own guidelines, with minimum government oversight. Of course, because there's trillions of dollars and millions of Americans involved, there'd have to be some oversight and regulations. But the ultimate decisions, providing there's no fraud or corruption involved, would remain with the MP's.
But in the end, the MP's (medical professionals) would be able to set their own rules, regs and policies. No more running tests that aren't actually necessary. No more endless doctor visits, being treated for something the doctors knows isn't going to be effective. (so they can get more money) No more fighting with the insurance companies as to why the doctor can't run a certain test.
Example: When my gaul stones were causing a lot of pain, the ER doctor wasn't allowed to do a sonogram because I didn't have fever. A simple test to see for sure that I had gaul stones, was not allowed by the insurance company. Not only would the test confirm the doctors suspicions. But would also show the size and scope of the stones. Which would determine if emergency surgery was needed. Or if I could wait to have the surgery.

Bottom line to this, IMO, health insurance companies are nothing more than money brokers and do nothing to help, treat or cure patients. So the ones getting 100% of the money, should be the MP's. If a single payer system is the only way to abolish insurance companies, then so be it.

I go to the doctor about once every five years. Approximately a hundred dollar visit. I have paid maybe a couple thousand dollars in my whole life towards medical bills. The dumbass insurance wants me to pay over $100 a month. I live a paycheck to paycheck. Who would benefit from that $100 a month if I will not? If health insurance was only 20 or $30 a month I would definitely jump on it. I am 45 years old so I'm guessing I will need insurance in 10 or 20 years from now.

 

[YoursTruly]

I go to the doctor about once every five years. Approximately a hundred dollar visit. I have paid maybe a couple thousand dollars in my whole life towards medical bills. The dumbass insurance wants me to pay over $100 a month. I live a paycheck to paycheck. Who would benefit from that $100 a month if I will not? If health insurance was only 20 or $30 a month I would definitely jump on it. I am 45 years old so I'm guessing I will need insurance in 10 or 20 years from now.

You must have an employer who pays for most of your healthcare insurance. If so you really don't have much to complain about.

 

[dblack]

You must have an employer who pays for most of your healthcare insurance. If so you really don't have much to complain about.

Things would be far better, overall, if this were not the case - if most of us were buying our own health insurance.

 

[Donald H]

....... with a government bureaucracy with absolutely no incentive to lower costs and where the cost of medical care in real terms will continue to spiral out of control until the system, like it is in Australia, Canada, and England, is overburdened and unmanageable.

Yet government run insurance continues to do it for about half the cost of the American 'for profit' system??

What you claim should be true in a capitalist system in which competition controls costs. What has gone wrong? Why is medical insurance so unaffordable that people are either going without or buying plans that have huge deductibles or limitations on care that's included?

Is that related to the nearly twice the cost of HC per GDP of the American system?

Single payer insurance does indeed eliminate competition, which should have pushed the cost higher than America's, but it HASN'T. The world's best systems continue to do it for about half the cost.

The explanation for that is in the incentive politicians are forced to consider if they want to be re-elected. The people have experienced high quality HC, compared it to America's failing system, and demand they keep it. The political parties are faced with having to keep it appropriately funded.

Government run, single payer HC is a huge consideration for a people's quality of life. Cuba is an example where an entirely different concept of poverty needs to be considered for a people with high quality HC for all the people.

 

[Donald H]

As true as that might be, the south, with millions, couldn't defeat the USA. When the donations die down, so will BLM. Hopefully the kids of antifa are looking at their parents like the morons they are and won't follow in their shoes.
I think a lot of folks are just not paying much attention to BLM, antifa and white supremist. That's the best weapon to use against attention whores, is to just not give them any attention.

Black woman telling the truth about BLM and antifa. White liberals triggered.

The BLM pantomine is of no interest to me as a Canadian. I only see it as a part of the overall general unrest of many different protest movements that have sprung up in America.

I see them all as moving toward a common cause of elminating bad government and eventual reform.

That reform must become a move toward more 'socially' responsible government. THAT is what is being demanded of all political stripes, even though the right and extremist right don't recognize their struggles as being that yet.

On Jan. 6th., Trump's most avid followers actually declared it to be so when the march on the Capitol became a coup attempt against government. Albeit, a dismally failed attempt due to lack of Trump's leadership to make it happen.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Insurance was for those kinds of things, not to pay for everything under the sun....Back in the day it was called "hospitalization insurance".

Truth is that nearly all outpatient treatments and procedures are reasonably inexpensive, if paid for out-of-pocket.

This.

 

[Mark Richard]

You must have an employer who pays for most of your healthcare insurance. If so you really don't have much to complain about.

If I had an employer to paid for my health insurance, he would be wasting his money because I don't go to the doctor