CDZ Could (actual) Conservatives support this kind of single payer?

[Donald H]

The governments of other contries have the same effect, only to, and only maybe, a lesser degree.

Their governments are proven to be capable of administering far better HC for all their people. Even Cuba's!
Maybe take a chance with that 'lesser degree'!

Frankly, there's no hope of anything better if it's not done by government. There is too much 'profit' involved.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Their governments are proven to be capable of administering far better HC for all their people. Even Cuba's!
Maybe take a chance with that 'lesser degree'!

Sorry, no.

Frankly, there's no hope of anything better if it's not done by government. There is too much 'profit' involved

Profit is the reason you have almost everything you have.

 

[dblack]

Essentially I agree with you if you're saying that your government is too corrupted by payoffs to insurance companies, to ever adopt a HC plan that could serve all the people.

And another reason why it can't be fixed is because 'serving the interests of all the people' is frankly, the meaning of socialism.

Again with the "very special" definitions. Socialism is about public ownership of the "means of production". "Serving the interests of the people" is an entirely different concern.

Americans are taught to see that as 'communism' and the boogeyman under their beds.

Rightfully so. It's a direct threat to individual liberty.

I love a rational amount of 'socialism' within Canada's capitalist system.

Great to hear. Good thing you live there, and not here.

 

[dblack]

You'all need to stop treading water and come to accept that government is the only answer.

SUBMIT!!! Everyone needs to accept government as their personal lord and savior.

 

[YoursTruly]

I didn't say get rid of them.....Free market and all. You want insurance, you should be able to PAY FOR YOUR insurance....my problem with insurance companies is that they are crooks and unnecessary so to improve their profits (money that has come from somewhere) they have bought off corrupt politicians who have in turned enabled them to get away with MURDER literally. But besides the actual murder, they have made laws to 1) Require insurance (the Obama health scam) and 2) Having medical providers charge multiple times what they actually expect to get out for a medical service (price gouging and price fixing) in order to force people to buy chit insurance not to get price gouged.

It would be much cheaper and easier for consumers (not insurers) to pay out of pocket for doctors visits and basic medical procedures IF NOT FOR THE GOUGING thusly cutting costs by cutting out the middle man (the insurance companies and their paid off politicians.)

Even hospital stays would be affordable for most, if not for the price gouging that insurance companies FORCE medical providers to do to make insurance look like a sane option when it isn't and really never was. I remember long ago, when people cared about making good financial decisions that INSURANCE was always listed as one of the top wastes of money out there. My mother used to tell of a time, before insurance became the big thing, that even the poor could afford going to the doctor and pay of out pocket--which btw, is far better than the poor now not able to afford to go to the doctor or pay for health insurance but forced to pay the extra costs.

To top this off---Insurance companies especially government ran one like you want KILL patients off by delaying care and by affecting choice of medical providers and care. I have Humana managed Tricare Prime for the military----these fuckers have literally almost killed both me and my husband off by trying to cut corners. The only thing that has kept us alive is that I know enough about medical care and atleast for him, the inept care for my husband brings out my claws and fangs----which even with bad care and corrupt Humana, I can scare into providing proper care. Bad care is why I went to nursing school and why I bothered to actually understand how the body works verses what nurses (and lazy or my favorite foreign trained doctors). I suspect this is why life expectancy in the US went down for the first well likely EVER but I know for atleast in decades.....UNDER OBAMA after his health scam was passed.

Then there is the whole DRUG SCAM---drugs cost pennies to make but the drug companies JUST HERE IN THE US are allowed by our corrupt pols and their laws to charge americans more for every drug than anywhere else in the world. This is utter bullshit.

"We the people" aren't going to solve it. And neither is a president like Biden or Trump. if people would just stop voting republican or democrat for say 4 years, a lot of these lobbyist would find a damn hole to crawl into. The establishment would dissolve. And "we the people" would have a little say so in what our government does.

 

[YoursTruly]

Just suffice to say that organized Christianity is pure bunk, while your pantheistic possibilities aren't being debated here.

Then there was the attempt by christianity to modify their beliefs with the Intelligent Design scam. They tried to pass off their modified version of science to suit the creation yarn.

They claimed that Irreducible Complexity could answer for their Christian beliefs, but then they were destroyed by real science that prove otherwise on the claims of IC.

I think that the Christians have learned to steer clear of sciencee after that smackdown.

You can have your pantheistic beliefs without challenging modern science as long as you keep Christian bullshit out of it.

Is it that important, either way? I mean seriously. Neither side can prove the existence or the in-existence of a God. Life had to start from something.
I mean seriously. Obviously the bible, Quran and the others got it wrong. BUT life did start somewhere.
So what if someone has faith. When Christians start eating your young, then you can bitch about it.

 

[YoursTruly]

SUBMIT!!! Everyone needs to accept government as their personal lord and savior.

GODverment.

 

[fncceo]

I suppose if we all had a few hundred thousand $$$ in the bank, to spare, paying out of pocket would be the norm.

If you want medical treatment, try less beer and pot and more savings.

 

[YoursTruly]

If you want medical treatment, try less beer and pot and more savings.

Funny thing about that. I don't drink alcohol or do drugs.

 

[fncceo]

Funny thing about that. I don't drink alcohol or do drugs.

Then why can't you save money? You could self-insure by taking what you've been paying in premiums and invest in conservatively (that's what the insurance companies do).

For those without the discipline, you can let the insurance companies do that for you, for a fee.

 

[YoursTruly]

Then why can't you save money? You could self-insure by taking what you've been paying in premiums and invest in conservatively (that's what the insurance companies do).

For those without the discipline, you can let the insurance companies do that for you, for a fee.

I got shit wrong that cost WAAAAY more than I have saved. You know, like a lot of Americans.

 

[fncceo]

I got shit wrong that cost WAAAAY more than I have saved. You know, like a lot of Americans.

Then you should be thanking your lucky stars for insurance companies, who assume the risk that people, like yourself, are going to eat into everyone else's premiums.

Your insurance agent deserves a big, sloppy, wet kiss right on the mouth.

 

[DudleySmith]

I don't understand why republicans and most conservatives can't support a single payer system, ran by medical professionals. Although I do understand them not wanting it ran by our government. That's understandable. For the simple fact that the government can't run most things that benefit most of "we the people." A good example of this is the USD value. Now, $10hr is a poverty wage. Where as just south of the border, $10hr is an upper class wage.
But I digress. Fighting against a single payer system is nothing more than fighting in favor of health insurance companies. Who constantly screw the medical professionals out of a lot of money.
Healthcare has to be paid for, no matter who you are. Everyone is going to need medical help. And those that help you, will have to get paid. Insurance companies get paid by us. And they pay the MP (Medical professionals). But where they screw the MP's, is how much they pay the MPs for your care.
Example: When I was with Blue Cross Blue shield, I had an osteotomy on my knee. The hospital and doctor billed the insurance company over $100,000. That included all the doctor visits, surgeon visits, physical therapy & drugs. Blue Cross paid a little less than $3,000 in total. My doctor said that Medicare pays them better than Blue Cross. How sick is that?
Counting my premiums, the insurance company got paid a LOT more than the MP's that actually fixed my knee problem. Thousands more.
Let's be honest about this. Health insurance companies (or all of them) are nothing more than money brokers. We pay them and they pay the MP's what they want to pay them. Then they keep the rest for profits.
As a conservative, I'm always in support of cutting out the middle man.
I think the BEST way to solve this problem, is the MP's starting their own nationwide health insurance company. That way, they can own and operate within their own guidelines, with minimum government oversight. Of course, because there's trillions of dollars and millions of Americans involved, there'd have to be some oversight and regulations. But the ultimate decisions, providing there's no fraud or corruption involved, would remain with the MP's.
But in the end, the MP's (medical professionals) would be able to set their own rules, regs and policies. No more running tests that aren't actually necessary. No more endless doctor visits, being treated for something the doctors knows isn't going to be effective. (so they can get more money) No more fighting with the insurance companies as to why the doctor can't run a certain test.
Example: When my gaul stones were causing a lot of pain, the ER doctor wasn't allowed to do a sonogram because I didn't have fever. A simple test to see for sure that I had gaul stones, was not allowed by the insurance company. Not only would the test confirm the doctors suspicions. But would also show the size and scope of the stones. Which would determine if emergency surgery was needed. Or if I could wait to have the surgery.

Bottom line to this, IMO, health insurance companies are nothing more than money brokers and do nothing to help, treat or cure patients. So the ones getting 100% of the money, should be the MP's. If a single payer system is the only way to abolish insurance companies, then so be it.

Insurance companies are just scams run by speculators who want to use other people's money to gamble with. They are in the business of screwing customers who buy their policies, not paying out for health care, so don't expect those who gamble on their stocks to support a single payer system, They are in the collections and fraud business, not the health care business or any other business. They keep great statistics, and generally have a very good idea of whether or not you will die before you can get to court and they have to go to court and end up paying your claims, if they don't feel like paying out your claims any given week, like when they pay out dividends and need the cash, or are buying some real estate or big business.

 

[Turtlesoup]

You'all need to stop treading water and come to accept that government is the only answer.
Then begin to reform your government to some form that would have the will to serve the people's interests.

The Trump attempt to bring down government on Jan.6th. was an indication that the situation is getting bad enough to warrant revolution. When Biden fails to bring relief, the revolutionary spirit isn't going to just die away.

The American people are waking up and saying that they have been screwed for long enough. Now all that's needed is for the people to come together and demand their interests be served.

I don't think the government is reformable. It's time to start over...........completely over with a factory reboot by going to back to what our founders wanted and had put in place. No one who isn't supporting themselves is allow to have a say.

 

[fncceo]

Insurance companies are just scams run by speculators who want to use other people's money to gamble with.

Insurance companies, like banks, are businesses that provide an investment service. Insurance companies pool the premiums paid by you and I to spread the risk. Of course, to manage that risk, they must understand the nature of that risk. They need to be intimately familiar with life expediencies, health trends, and other factors that affect your investments.

In addition to spreading the risk between millions of investors, insurance companies also give you access to institutional investment opportunities that small investors can't access.

Of course, you don't have to use their services. You can self-insure. Paying the same amount that you would in monthly premiums into a managed risk portfolio and hope that A) you don't need more over your lifetime than you paid in or B) you don't need it too early in your lifetime. That risk works for most people. If it didn't, insurance companies would be out of business very soon.

 

[DudleySmith]

Insurance companies, like banks, are businesses that provide an investment service. Insurance companies pool the premiums paid by you and I to spread the risk. Of course, to manage that risk, they must understand the nature of that risk. They need to be intimately familiar with life expediencies, health trends, and other factors that affect your investments.

In addition to spreading the risk between millions of investors, insurance companies also give you access to institutional investment opportunities that small investors can't access.

Of course, you don't have to use their services. You can self-insure. Paying the same amount that you would in monthly premiums into a managed risk portfolio and hope that A) you don't need more over your lifetime than you paid in or B) you don't need it too early in your lifetime. That risk works for most people. If it didn't, insurance companies would be out of business very soon.

They exist because of sweetheart laws that give them tax and limited liability privileges no other businesses will ever get; the rest of their appeal is largely from marketing and fooling the public with imaginary 'advantages'. All they really achieve for most is driving up the costs of medical care. When people had to pay cash, medical services were a lot cheaper and more affordable.

 

[fncceo]

When people had to pay cash, medical services were a lot cheaper and more affordable.

When people had to pay cash, the available choices of medical services were a lot fewer. In an age before organ transplants, gene therapies, and medical imaging, the cost of health care was significantly lower ... as was the average life expectancy.

 

[EMH]

I don't understand why republicans and most conservatives can't support a single payer system, ran by medical professionals. Although I do understand them not wanting it ran by our government. That's understandable. For the simple fact that the government can't run most things that benefit most of "we the people." A good example of this is the USD value. Now, $10hr is a poverty wage. Where as just south of the border, $10hr is an upper class wage.
But I digress. Fighting against a single payer system is nothing more than fighting in favor of health insurance companies. Who constantly screw the medical professionals out of a lot of money.
Healthcare has to be paid for, no matter who you are. Everyone is going to need medical help. And those that help you, will have to get paid. Insurance companies get paid by us. And they pay the MP (Medical professionals). But where they screw the MP's, is how much they pay the MPs for your care.
Example: When I was with Blue Cross Blue shield, I had an osteotomy on my knee. The hospital and doctor billed the insurance company over $100,000. That included all the doctor visits, surgeon visits, physical therapy & drugs. Blue Cross paid a little less than $3,000 in total. My doctor said that Medicare pays them better than Blue Cross. How sick is that?
Counting my premiums, the insurance company got paid a LOT more than the MP's that actually fixed my knee problem. Thousands more.
Let's be honest about this. Health insurance companies (or all of them) are nothing more than money brokers. We pay them and they pay the MP's what they want to pay them. Then they keep the rest for profits.
As a conservative, I'm always in support of cutting out the middle man.
I think the BEST way to solve this problem, is the MP's starting their own nationwide health insurance company. That way, they can own and operate within their own guidelines, with minimum government oversight. Of course, because there's trillions of dollars and millions of Americans involved, there'd have to be some oversight and regulations. But the ultimate decisions, providing there's no fraud or corruption involved, would remain with the MP's.
But in the end, the MP's (medical professionals) would be able to set their own rules, regs and policies. No more running tests that aren't actually necessary. No more endless doctor visits, being treated for something the doctors knows isn't going to be effective. (so they can get more money) No more fighting with the insurance companies as to why the doctor can't run a certain test.
Example: When my gaul stones were causing a lot of pain, the ER doctor wasn't allowed to do a sonogram because I didn't have fever. A simple test to see for sure that I had gaul stones, was not allowed by the insurance company. Not only would the test confirm the doctors suspicions. But would also show the size and scope of the stones. Which would determine if emergency surgery was needed. Or if I could wait to have the surgery.

Bottom line to this, IMO, health insurance companies are nothing more than money brokers and do nothing to help, treat or cure patients. So the ones getting 100% of the money, should be the MP's. If a single payer system is the only way to abolish insurance companies, then so be it.

"Single payer" has a track record. Pseudo-con Zionist big government traitors masquerading as "republicans" put senior drugs on a "single payer" system, paid the drug companies a retail price (no bulk discount, no discount from what you pay at CVS), seniors on three pills all of a sudden were on 8, 5 of which went with grandson to be sold at the high school.

"Single payer senior drugs" = taxpayer funded opium pills for sale to your kids in school

Bigger government is always the WORST OPTION.

 

[DudleySmith]

When people had to pay cash, the available choices of medical services were a lot fewer. In an age before organ transplants, gene therapies, and medical imaging, the cost of health care was significantly lower ... as was the average life expectancy.

True, there were far fewer tranny operations and butt tucks, and unnecessary surgeries to boot. all considered vital these days.

 

[YoursTruly]

"Single payer" has a track record. Pseudo-con Zionist big government traitors masquerading as "republicans" put senior drugs on a "single payer" system, paid the drug companies a retail price (no bulk discount, no discount from what you pay at CVS), seniors on three pills all of a sudden were on 8, 5 of which went with grandson to be sold at the high school.

"Single payer senior drugs" = taxpayer funded opium pills for sale to your kids in school

Bigger government is always the WORST OPTION.

My guess is everyone needs to stop voting republican and/or democrat for at least 4 years. And not vote for an incumbent.
Lobbyist wouldn't know what to do. And the establishment wouldn't be so established.
Then problems might get worked out.