Considerations: The selfishness of #NeverTrump

TemplarKormac

Political Atheist
Mar 30, 2013
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The Land of Sanctuary
First off I'm going to start with this disclaimer: let it be clear that I'm not telling anyone who to vote for, or demanding that anyone vote at all. This thread is intended to compel the reader to consider the ramifications of their decision to stay home or vote third party, whichever it may be. Once again, do whatever the hell you want, I'm just stating my personal opinion on the subject. Sure, it will sound condescending to some of you, but don't take it personally. I'm not angry with you. If you think it's funny, feel free to press the funny button.

But I want you NeverTrumpers to think about something. Before Hillary ever came along, most of you were preaching of the horrors of what would come to pass if she became president. Then, out of nowhere, Donald Trump began his rapid rise to the top of the GOP presidential field. And then, in a sudden reversal, you began preaching the horrors of what would come to pass if he became the nominee. You wrote him off repeatedly, as a flash in the pan or the like. You kept reassuring yourselves that he would never, ever succeed in his campaign. Suddenly, it became a campaign against Trump, not a unified campaign against Hillary as it should have been.

As the inevitability of Trump's victory began to strike home, more and more of you vowed never to vote for Donald Trump, be it a conflict of values or matters of conscience, out of a fit of anger, or perhaps no matter what. For that, I think you're being selfish, and I'll tell you why. Consider what the future of America would be like if Hillary Clinton were elected president, also consider the possibility that your abstinence could put her there. Is selfishness moral? Is it a virtue, a value you hold dear to your heart? No? Then why? Why would you be so righteously indignant that you're willing to risk the future of America to preserve your own values or conscience? This isn't a noble act, this isn't sending a message, it's downright selfish.

You are all no doubt aware of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia's untimely demise earlier this year, as a result, that leaves his seat vacant, ripe for the picking for the next president to fill. You also have four other aging Justices on the bench right now. Over the next decade, there is a likelihood that those four other seats could become vacant. In addition to appointing a successor for Scalia, a president Hillary Clinton could appoint five liberal justices to the bench. Think about that. There could be seven liberal justices on the bench, redefining the conscience of America, and changing her identity.

From then on, on issues of gun rights, religious freedom, freedom of speech, or abortion, the rulings could be 7-2 against the conservative arguments. Seven to two. Consider this: In an effort to preserve your values and conscience, by voting third party, or staying home out of a sense of righteous indignance, you're willing to risk a future where a majority liberal Supreme Court would be allowed to redefine your values for you. The would be given free reign to twist the Constitution to liberal ideals, essentially erasing the conservative brand from the face of America. You must realize that under a Supreme Court with seven liberal justices,there would never be another conservative victory at the Supreme Court level for at least a generation to come. You would be ensuring in your selfishness, an end to your values amid an ill advised attempt to preserve them.

Now, you all also value individual rights. In one case, Hillary made herself clear that she will use the Supreme Court as a weapon to radically alter Americans rights to bear arms. In essence, using our highest court as a weapon against religious freedom or freedom of speech and every other conservative value we all hold dear. You want to help America, yet you are willing to go about precipitating her destruction. You may hate Trump's guts, and I do understand where you're coming from. But Hillary wouldn't give a damn about you or your beliefs, your faith, or your vaunted values and conscience. Because in her presidency, you may not have the right to any of those things again. Do you want that on your conscience? So if Hillary ultimately wins, don't complain. You put her there.

In sum, and in my own personal opinion, you #NeverTrumpers are being selfish, and you need to grow up and consider the wider ramifications of a Hillary Clinton presidency. If you truly love America, you would do whatever it took to preserve as much of the country you love as you possibly could, to ensure that you maintain an atmosphere that is tolerant of your beliefs, values or conscience, even if that meant holding back a gag reflex in order to vote for Donald Trump in the general election. The ball's in your court. Don't screw this up for the rest of us.
 
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So you're not telling anyone how to vote, but you are trying to shame them for not voting the way you want?

Am I missing something?

It's an expressed opinion. Nothing more. You don't have to care. Shame not, care not. Do whatever it is you were doing before you wasted the few minutes of your life reading my thread.
 
Before Hillary ever came along, most of you were preaching of the horrors of what would come to pass if she became president. Then, out of nowhere, Donald Trump began his rapid rise to the top of the GOP presidential field. And then, in a sudden reversal, you began preaching the horrors of what would come to pass if he became the nominee.

Where do you get this cockamamie theory?

It kinda matters if you're going to build your case on a specious premise that you apparently just made up.
 
First off I'm going to start with this disclaimer: let it be clear that I'm not telling anyone who to vote for, or demanding that anyone vote at all. This thread is intended to compel the reader to consider the ramifications of their decision to stay home or vote third party, whichever it may be. Once again, do whatever the hell you want, I'm just stating my personal opinion on the subject. Sure, it will sound condescending to some of you, but don't take it personally. I'm not angry with you. If you think it's funny, feel free to press the funny button.

But I want you NeverTrumpers to think about something. Before Hillary ever came along, most of you were preaching of the horrors of what would come to pass if she became president. Then, out of nowhere, Donald Trump began his rapid rise to the top of the GOP presidential field. And then, in a sudden reversal, you began preaching the horrors of what would come to pass if he became the nominee. You wrote him off repeatedly, as a flash in the pan or the like. You kept reassuring yourselves that he would never, ever succeed in his campaign. Suddenly, it became a campaign against Trump, not a unified campaign against Hillary as it should have been.

As the inevitability of Trump's victory began to strike home, more and more of you vowed never to vote for Donald Trump, be it a conflict of values or matters of conscience, out of a fit of anger, or perhaps no matter what. For that, I think you're being selfish, and I'll tell you why. Consider what the future of America would be like if Hillary Clinton were elected president, also consider the possibility that your abstinence could put her there. Is selfishness moral? Is it a virtue, a value you hold dear to your heart? No? Then why? Why would you be so righteously indignant that you're willing to risk the future of America to preserve your own values or conscience? This isn't a noble act, this isn't sending a message, it's downright selfish.

You are all no doubt aware of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia's untimely demise earlier this year, as a result, that leaves his seat vacant, ripe for the picking for the next president to fill. You also have four other aging Justices on the bench right now. Over the next decade, there is a likelihood that those four other seats could become vacant. In addition to appointing a successor for Scalia, a president Hillary Clinton could appoint five liberal justices to the bench. Think about that. There could be seven liberal justices on the bench, redefining the conscience of America, and changing her identity.

From then on, on issues of gun rights, religious freedom, freedom of speech, or abortion, the rulings could be 7-2 against the conservative arguments. Seven to two. Consider this: In an effort to preserve your values and conscience, by voting third party, or staying home out of a sense of righteous indignance, you're willing to risk a future where a majority liberal Supreme Court would be allowed to redefine your values for you. The would be given free reign to twist the Constitution to liberal ideals, essentially erasing the conservative brand from the face of America. You must realize that under a Supreme Court with seven liberal justices,there would never be another conservative victory at the Supreme Court level for at least a generation to come. You would be ensuring in your selfishness, an end to your values amid an ill advised attempt to preserve them.

Now, you all also value individual rights. In one case, Hillary made herself clear that she will use the Supreme Court as a weapon to radically alter Americans rights to bear arms. In essence, using our highest court as a weapon against religious freedom or freedom of speech and every other conservative value we all hold dear. You want to help America, yet you are willing to go about precipitating her destruction. You may hate Trump's guts, and I do understand where you're coming from. But Hillary wouldn't give a damn about you or your beliefs, your faith, or your vaunted values and conscience. Because in her presidency, you may not have the right to any of those things again. Do you want that on your conscience? So if Hillary ultimately wins, don't complain. You put her there.

In sum, you #NeverTrumpers are being selfish, and you need to grow up and consider the wider ramifications of a Hillary Clinton presidency. If you truly love America, you would do whatever it took to preserve as much of the country you love as you possibly could, to ensure that you maintain an atmosphere that is tolerant of your beliefs, values or conscience, even if that meant holding back a gag reflex in order to vote for Donald Trump in the general election. The ball's in your court. Don't screw this up for the rest of us.


George Bush was supposed to protect the supreme court. He gave us Juan Roberts. There is just as good a chance Trump will pick the same type person Hillery would. he runs with the same crowed. he is shallow to. no depth. no explanation other then "we are going to make america great again." and then he says "trust me". Know what trust me means in California? can't say I'm never trump, more like zero faith in trump. no proof he will be better then Hillery.
 
So lemme get this straight -----

..... you went all rah-rah for Rump, then realized the folly of that..... but anyone else who realizes the same thing is being "selfish"?


I'm lost. :dunno:
 
So you're not telling anyone how to vote, but you are trying to shame them for not voting the way you want?

Am I missing something?

It's an expressed opinion. Nothing more. You don't have to care. Shame not, care not. Do whatever it is you were doing before you wasted the few minutes of your life reading my thread.

This is a discussion board, TK. If you don't want people to respond to your post, why did you post it here?
 
So you're not telling anyone how to vote, but you are trying to shame them for not voting the way you want?

Am I missing something?

It's an expressed opinion. Nothing more. You don't have to care. Shame not, care not. Do whatever it is you were doing before you wasted the few minutes of your life reading my thread.

This is a discussion board, TK. If you don't want people to respond to your post, why did you post it here?

I never said anything about not wanting people to respond to my thread. By all means, do it, or don't. That's completely up to you. This is a place where my voice, among many others, counts, right?
 
So you're not telling anyone how to vote, but you are trying to shame them for not voting the way you want?

Am I missing something?

It's an expressed opinion. Nothing more. You don't have to care. Shame not, care not. Do whatever it is you were doing before you wasted the few minutes of your life reading my thread.

This is a discussion board, TK. If you don't want people to respond to your post, why did you post it here?

I never said anything about not wanting people to respond to my thread. By all means, do it, or don't. That's completely up to you.

So it's not that you don't want me to respond, you just don't want to respond to what I have to say?

That's kinda lame, but whatever.
 
So it's not that you don't want me to respond, you just don't want to respond to what I have to say?

That's not it either. If I didn't want to debate people, if I were afraid of responses I'd get, I sure as hell wouldn't have become a member here. Think about it.

Then why are you trying to blow me off, rather than responding to my post?
 
Then why are you trying to blow me off, rather than responding to my post?

How am I "blowing you off?" If I were, I would have simply ignored you. I don't have to devote any of my time posting threads here, but I do. I want to draw attention to what I believe, I want my beliefs questioned, my arguments, my opinions. That's why I joined.
 
Then why are you trying to blow me off, rather than responding to my post?

How am I "blowing you off?" If I were, I would have simply ignored you.

Like so:

So you're not telling anyone how to vote, but you are trying to shame them for not voting the way you want?

Am I missing something?

It's an expressed opinion. Nothing more. You don't have to care. Shame not, care not. Do whatever it is you were doing before you wasted the few minutes of your life reading my thread.

Refusing to comment on what I said, and telling me to go back to whatever I was doing before?

Sounds like a blow off to me.
 
Now, you all also value individual rights. In one case, Hillary made herself clear that she will use the Supreme Court as a weapon to radically alter Americans rights to bear arms. In essence, using our highest court as a weapon against religious freedom or freedom of speech and every other conservative value we all hold dear.

Actually those are Liberal values -- that's where they came from, but whatever. I'm not aware of the Hillary statement to which you allude, but I am aware of multiple times Donald Rump has already directly and blatantly threatened the First Amendment --- once on the Freedom of Speech (Press) part and another time or two on the Free Exercise of Religion part.

Is that not a gapingly obvious concern?
 
So you're not telling anyone how to vote, but you are trying to shame them for not voting the way you want?

Am I missing something?

It's an expressed opinion. Nothing more. You don't have to care. Shame not, care not. Do whatever it is you were doing before you wasted the few minutes of your life reading my thread.

This is a discussion board, TK. If you don't want people to respond to your post, why did you post it here?

I never said anything about not wanting people to respond to my thread. By all means, do it, or don't. That's completely up to you.

So it's not that you don't want me to respond, you just don't want to respond to what I have to say?

That's kinda lame, but whatever.

Nor to me either apparently....
 
Refusing to comment on what I said, and telling me to go back to whatever I was doing before?

Sounds like a blow off to me.

No. I am not telling people who to vote for. I wrote that disclaimer for a reason. Take it for what its worth Doc. If people are ashamed so be it. They don't need to be, they are simply expressing their rights as Americans to voice their grievances. That doesn't necessarily mean I have to agree with them. It also doesn't stop me from letting them know that I do. In so issuing my opinion, I also wanted to encourage people to think. If that sounds like "shaming" to you, so be it.
 
Refusing to comment on what I said, and telling me to go back to whatever I was doing before?

Sounds like a blow off to me.

No. I am not telling people who to vote for. I wrote that disclaimer for a reason. Take it for what its worth Doc. If people are ashamed so be it. They don't need to be, they are simply expressing their rights as Americans to voice their grievances. That doesn't necessarily mean I have to agree with them. In so issuing my opinion, I also wanted to encourage people to think. If that sounds like "shaming" to you, so be it.

Telling people to "think" isn't shaming them - telling them that they're "selfish" for not agreeing with you, that kinda is.


What makes you think that the "NeverTrump" people haven't "thought" about it? I would imagine they have - and I'd guess that most if not all of the "NeverTrump" people are "Never Trump" because they believe that he'd be worse than Clinton.

PJ O'Rourke just put it very well, let me see if I can find the link.
 

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