Conservatives sold themselves two lies

[Disir]

This is exactly how you are thinking and what the RW media tells you.

Tell us some more about how the left is ruining everything.

Besides supporting the destruction of public education, supporting H1B visas, banking deregulation which actually screws African-Americans, passing legislation that makes it harder to catch people involved in sex trafficking and sending mixed messages by supporting candidates that support the NRA, as well as, attacking Democratic candidates. Not to mention the DNC BS. How could I forget.........unable to read bills.

And that's just my cup of coffee.

Tell us some more about how the Democratic Party is all about the good guys.

 

[BlackSand]

Their priorities are, in order:

1. Re-election
2. Fundraising
3. Polls
4. Plum committee leadership
5. Plum committee membership
6. Finding a TeeVee camera
   
7. Working in the best interests of their constituents and country, if time allows

.

Those aren't my priorities ... I am conservative ... They aren't in my best interests, and I don't care about their lies (any of them).

.

 

[Correll]

I don't see why you cite the 80s as an example of the Left not responding the same way.


They were not facing the same situation, at all.




The only possible way I can see breaking the Left's lock on minority voters, is by bringing jobs back at such a rate that middle class whites and minorities note the improvement in their lives, and both shift dramatically to the RIght.


This is unlikely to work, but it is the only possible chance.


We could try to beat the democrats at their own games of handing out money and racial demagoguery, but we will fail and do terrible harm to the nation in the process.

That's mistake #2 I mention above, assuming that your top priorities (economy, jobs) are their top priorities.

I'm telling you, it isn't. And they know that you don't know that, and that only makes things even worse.
.

I'm NOT assuming that. We just don't have any better tools to work with.


We can't outshout them to get our message across, the left owns the media and pop culture.


Hell, they are starting to censor the internet.


We can't out bribe them. The government is broke and we know it. We can't compete with the Left when it comes to spending money we don't have. We just can't.


If we try to out pander them by offering to discriminate more against whites, we A. will still fail to win minority votes and will B. lose white votes, and C. immediately marginalize the majority of the nation from the political process.

You're simply lazy.

Look at the march in DC yesterday. Hundreds of thousands of people. That is how change starts.

You have children out playing you.

"Marches" have been assimilated into the system. They are part of the status quo and nothing new.


The children are saying NOTHING new. THey are not new ideas. Just useful spokesmen.

"Marches" have been assimilated into the system. They are part of the status quo and nothing new.

Nothing new but very effective. It's the formula that has brought about every significant change over my lifetime.

You all like to laugh and belittle them and then are supprised and cry when the change happens.

Increasing government control at the cost of our freedoms is not change. It is part of a much larger trend that has been going on for a long time.


They are supporting the status quo.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

We have to prove ourselves over time? Dude, it's been a little over a year since Trump was sworn in as President and he's been under nonstop attack from the main stream media and you on the left ever since he beat Hillary yet he's STILL managing to accomplish much of what he promised to do when he campaigned.

You seem to think because he DIDN'T yank the entire country over to his way of looking things overnight...that he's failed! That's quite frankly one of the dumber things someone's posted on here in quite some time. Let's be honest here...there is a HUGE part of the population that will still hate Trump no matter how successful his policies are and quite a few of them will hate him MORE if he's successful! You might want to "examine" that!

Well, you could be right. We'll see how it goes.

Is it safe to say that you have no concerns about the demographic changes coming?
.

Do you have concerns about the demographic changes that have already occurred? I hate to point out an inconvenient truth, Mac but Democrats may have lost the Rust Belt. Blue collar workers don't think you care about them anymore. Union workers don't think you care about them anymore. So what happens if blacks and Hispanics start to prosper under Trump? You guys have been long on promises for both of those communities and short on follow through. Do you have concerns about a shift in loyalties if Trump's policies start making life better for people in general?

Most importantly, if Trump's and/or Republican policies kick ass, then I'm all for it. I'm not ideological. They're invited to prove me wrong. I'm wrong all the time, just ask my wife.

But your last point is important, because it goes to #2 in the OP: I'm from a mixed-race family. I married into a mixed-race family, and I'm telling ya: With minorities and the GOP, it ain't about jobs or the economy or the stock market. That's the mistake conservatives are making, assuming that minorities have the same priorities. They. Do. Not.

Minorities still feel like outcasts in their own country. And until the GOP recognizes that and specifically addresses it, nothing else is going to matter. Now, if you respond with "the Democrats have essentially cheated with their divisive Identity Politics and PC", well, yeah, I agree. But it is what it is. We are where we are. So the GOP can either continue to not see this, or they can wake up. I don't think they're going to wake up.
.

Identity politics is expressing concern and caring for groups of people and then legislating accordingly.. It generally works to gain acceptance among said group.

“Identity politics” is a myth.

Defending the rights and protected liberties of blacks, Hispanics, gay and transgender Americans and women from attack by Republican/conservative lawmakers is not “Identity politics.”

 

[Correll]

We have to prove ourselves over time? Dude, it's been a little over a year since Trump was sworn in as President and he's been under nonstop attack from the main stream media and you on the left ever since he beat Hillary yet he's STILL managing to accomplish much of what he promised to do when he campaigned.

You seem to think because he DIDN'T yank the entire country over to his way of looking things overnight...that he's failed! That's quite frankly one of the dumber things someone's posted on here in quite some time. Let's be honest here...there is a HUGE part of the population that will still hate Trump no matter how successful his policies are and quite a few of them will hate him MORE if he's successful! You might want to "examine" that!

Well, you could be right. We'll see how it goes.

Is it safe to say that you have no concerns about the demographic changes coming?
.

Do you have concerns about the demographic changes that have already occurred? I hate to point out an inconvenient truth, Mac but Democrats may have lost the Rust Belt. Blue collar workers don't think you care about them anymore. Union workers don't think you care about them anymore. So what happens if blacks and Hispanics start to prosper under Trump? You guys have been long on promises for both of those communities and short on follow through. Do you have concerns about a shift in loyalties if Trump's policies start making life better for people in general?

Most importantly, if Trump's and/or Republican policies kick ass, then I'm all for it. I'm not ideological. They're invited to prove me wrong. I'm wrong all the time, just ask my wife.

But your last point is important, because it goes to #2 in the OP: I'm from a mixed-race family. I married into a mixed-race family, and I'm telling ya: With minorities and the GOP, it ain't about jobs or the economy or the stock market. That's the mistake conservatives are making, assuming that minorities have the same priorities. They. Do. Not.

Minorities still feel like outcasts in their own country. And until the GOP recognizes that and specifically addresses it, nothing else is going to matter. Now, if you respond with "the Democrats have essentially cheated with their divisive Identity Politics and PC", well, yeah, I agree. But it is what it is. We are where we are. So the GOP can either continue to not see this, or they can wake up. I don't think they're going to wake up.
.

Identity politics is expressing concern and caring for groups of people and then legislating accordingly.. It generally works to gain acceptance among said group.

“Identity politics” is a myth.

Defending the rights and protected liberties of blacks, Hispanics, gay and transgender Americans and women from attack by Republican/conservative lawmakers is not “Identity politics.”

Your flat and empty denial of the Truth is noted and dismissed.

 

[rightwinger]

I keep saying it: Reach out. Make it obvious. Attack racism in your party. Admit mistakes. Communicate.

To me, this is screamingly obvious. Communicate. Communicate. Communicate.
.

We've done that. All it does in support the vile lefty lying narrative that the GOP is the party of racism.


It failed.

Gee.....I wonder why?


Libs are successful because they offer inclusion.
Cons offer exclusion at ever opportunity.

Would you care to give your best example of the GOP offering "exclusion"?

Really?
If you have to ask that question then you'll never get it.

The GOP would LOVE to get some support from minority voters that agree with us on the issues.


We've tried.


That's an attempt at INCLUSION.


Do you want me to back that up? I'll be happy to.


I challenge you to give me your best example of the GOP being "exclusion".

Republicans found it more profitable to use minorities as scapegoats for all that is wrong with society

 

[Mac1958]

Well, you could be right. We'll see how it goes.

Is it safe to say that you have no concerns about the demographic changes coming?
.

Do you have concerns about the demographic changes that have already occurred? I hate to point out an inconvenient truth, Mac but Democrats may have lost the Rust Belt. Blue collar workers don't think you care about them anymore. Union workers don't think you care about them anymore. So what happens if blacks and Hispanics start to prosper under Trump? You guys have been long on promises for both of those communities and short on follow through. Do you have concerns about a shift in loyalties if Trump's policies start making life better for people in general?

Most importantly, if Trump's and/or Republican policies kick ass, then I'm all for it. I'm not ideological. They're invited to prove me wrong. I'm wrong all the time, just ask my wife.

But your last point is important, because it goes to #2 in the OP: I'm from a mixed-race family. I married into a mixed-race family, and I'm telling ya: With minorities and the GOP, it ain't about jobs or the economy or the stock market. That's the mistake conservatives are making, assuming that minorities have the same priorities. They. Do. Not.

Minorities still feel like outcasts in their own country. And until the GOP recognizes that and specifically addresses it, nothing else is going to matter. Now, if you respond with "the Democrats have essentially cheated with their divisive Identity Politics and PC", well, yeah, I agree. But it is what it is. We are where we are. So the GOP can either continue to not see this, or they can wake up. I don't think they're going to wake up.
.

Identity politics is expressing concern and caring for groups of people and then legislating accordingly.. It generally works to gain acceptance among said group.

“Identity politics” is a myth.

Defending the rights and protected liberties of blacks, Hispanics, gay and transgender Americans and women from attack by Republican/conservative lawmakers is not “Identity politics.”

Your flat and empty denial of the Truth is noted and dismissed.

He says the same thing about PC.

I am not kidding.

That's the power of ideology - it blinds, it distorts, it perverts.
.

 

[Seawytch]

Well, you could be right. We'll see how it goes.

Is it safe to say that you have no concerns about the demographic changes coming?
.

Do you have concerns about the demographic changes that have already occurred? I hate to point out an inconvenient truth, Mac but Democrats may have lost the Rust Belt. Blue collar workers don't think you care about them anymore. Union workers don't think you care about them anymore. So what happens if blacks and Hispanics start to prosper under Trump? You guys have been long on promises for both of those communities and short on follow through. Do you have concerns about a shift in loyalties if Trump's policies start making life better for people in general?

Most importantly, if Trump's and/or Republican policies kick ass, then I'm all for it. I'm not ideological. They're invited to prove me wrong. I'm wrong all the time, just ask my wife.

But your last point is important, because it goes to #2 in the OP: I'm from a mixed-race family. I married into a mixed-race family, and I'm telling ya: With minorities and the GOP, it ain't about jobs or the economy or the stock market. That's the mistake conservatives are making, assuming that minorities have the same priorities. They. Do. Not.

Minorities still feel like outcasts in their own country. And until the GOP recognizes that and specifically addresses it, nothing else is going to matter. Now, if you respond with "the Democrats have essentially cheated with their divisive Identity Politics and PC", well, yeah, I agree. But it is what it is. We are where we are. So the GOP can either continue to not see this, or they can wake up. I don't think they're going to wake up.
.

Identity politics is expressing concern and caring for groups of people and then legislating accordingly.. It generally works to gain acceptance among said group.

I disagree. In this day and age identity politics is the scapegoating of another group as the cause of someone's difficulties and promising that in return for your vote...I'll take from them and give to you.

If you say so. The Dems obviously don't care about anyone except white men. The policies we promote are all geared toward helping only white men. But we are sneaky. We TELL minorities, women and gay people that we care. And they are sooo stupid, they believe us!

It's awesome!

Even sneakier...they seek to and enact policies geared towards helping minorities, women and gay people. Bastards!

 

[rightwinger]

We have to prove ourselves over time? Dude, it's been a little over a year since Trump was sworn in as President and he's been under nonstop attack from the main stream media and you on the left ever since he beat Hillary yet he's STILL managing to accomplish much of what he promised to do when he campaigned.

You seem to think because he DIDN'T yank the entire country over to his way of looking things overnight...that he's failed! That's quite frankly one of the dumber things someone's posted on here in quite some time. Let's be honest here...there is a HUGE part of the population that will still hate Trump no matter how successful his policies are and quite a few of them will hate him MORE if he's successful! You might want to "examine" that!

Well, you could be right. We'll see how it goes.

Is it safe to say that you have no concerns about the demographic changes coming?
.

Do you have concerns about the demographic changes that have already occurred? I hate to point out an inconvenient truth, Mac but Democrats may have lost the Rust Belt. Blue collar workers don't think you care about them anymore. Union workers don't think you care about them anymore. So what happens if blacks and Hispanics start to prosper under Trump? You guys have been long on promises for both of those communities and short on follow through. Do you have concerns about a shift in loyalties if Trump's policies start making life better for people in general?

Most importantly, if Trump's and/or Republican policies kick ass, then I'm all for it. I'm not ideological. They're invited to prove me wrong. I'm wrong all the time, just ask my wife.

But your last point is important, because it goes to #2 in the OP: I'm from a mixed-race family. I married into a mixed-race family, and I'm telling ya: With minorities and the GOP, it ain't about jobs or the economy or the stock market. That's the mistake conservatives are making, assuming that minorities have the same priorities. They. Do. Not.

Minorities still feel like outcasts in their own country. And until the GOP recognizes that and specifically addresses it, nothing else is going to matter. Now, if you respond with "the Democrats have essentially cheated with their divisive Identity Politics and PC", well, yeah, I agree. But it is what it is. We are where we are. So the GOP can either continue to not see this, or they can wake up. I don't think they're going to wake up.
.

Identity politics is expressing concern and caring for groups of people and then legislating accordingly.. It generally works to gain acceptance among said group.

“Identity politics” is a myth.

Defending the rights and protected liberties of blacks, Hispanics, gay and transgender Americans and women from attack by Republican/conservative lawmakers is not “Identity politics.”

Republicans live off of identity politics

Use the poor, minorities, gays, non Christians as the cause of societies ills. You are suffering because they have so much.
Deflects attention from the rich

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“Conservatives sold themselves two lies”

Actually, failed, wrongheaded conservative dogma is in of itself a lie rightists have bought into, completely devoid of merit, a threat to the rights of citizens and the rule of law – indeed, a threat to our Constitutional Republic.

 

[Disir]

“Conservatives sold themselves two lies”

Actually, failed, wrongheaded conservative dogma is in of itself a lie rightists have bought into, completely devoid of merit, a threat to the rights of citizens and the rule of law – indeed, a threat to our Constitutional Republic.

Never mind the oldest tactic in the book is to keep people at each other's throats. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

[Coyote]

One of the ironies is that there is a substantial conservative reservoir in this demographic shift. In their own way, thr GOP plays their own game of identity politics through rejection, which hands these groups right to the Dems. Many Hispanics and Muslims are culturally conservative and devout.

Yep, very good point. And "rejection" is a very good term.

The GOP is doing this to themselves, and they don't have to. They've been led down the wrong road.
.

You know what I find most amusing about the left these days, Mac? It's their habit of accusing the opposition of the very thing that they themselves are guilty of. The GOP plays "identity politics"? Really?

Absolutely.

Don’t be a race traitor. Keep America white. Vote Republican.
Keep people out from shithole countries. Vote Republican.

Dragonlady is the perfect example of how liberals use identity politics to attack the GOP. Trump calls for common sense immigration reform...something that we should have done YEARS ago! So what do people like DL fixate on? That Trump thinks some parts of the world are worse than others? Something that may not be politically correct but is 100% accurate?

Liberals also want common sense comprehensive immigration reform: improved border security, more rapid adjudication and deportation for violent offenses, some sort of expanded system for legal work permits so as to reduce pressure to immigrate illegally, and expanding the number of merit based while not eliminating non merit based immigration. Even so called shithole countries have given us great people.

 

[Redfish]

term limits, age limits, curtail lobbying, pass the 28th amendment. Find a way to make the media unbiased------------that last one is the hardest.

 

[Coyote]

One of the ironies is that there is a substantial conservative reservoir in this demographic shift. In their own way, thr GOP plays their own game of identity politics through rejection, which hands these groups right to the Dems. Many Hispanics and Muslims are culturally conservative and devout.

Yep, very good point. And "rejection" is a very good term.

The GOP is doing this to themselves, and they don't have to. They've been led down the wrong road.
.

You know what I find most amusing about the left these days, Mac? It's their habit of accusing the opposition of the very thing that they themselves are guilty of. The GOP plays "identity politics"? Really?

Partisan ideologues do that. I can't speak for Coyote, but I think the two sides play that game differently. The Left is aggressive, cynical and blatant in its use of Identity Politics, and with the Right it's a more de facto, indirect thing.
.

The left says "you don't have what you deserve because that person over there took it from you"...the right says "we can help you become that person over there." That's the "game".

Not from a minority person's perspective. The GOP can ignore that if it wants to.
.

It is like Dems ignoring the voices in areas hard hit by the recession that still haven’t recovered and are unlikely to given that the traditional industries and jobs that supported them are gone. No amount of tariffs and propping up coal will bring back jobs lost to automation and changing market places. The Dems need to listen and speak to those needs because it is a universal message.

 

[Redfish]

One of the ironies is that there is a substantial conservative reservoir in this demographic shift. In their own way, thr GOP plays their own game of identity politics through rejection, which hands these groups right to the Dems. Many Hispanics and Muslims are culturally conservative and devout.

Yep, very good point. And "rejection" is a very good term.

The GOP is doing this to themselves, and they don't have to. They've been led down the wrong road.
.

You know what I find most amusing about the left these days, Mac? It's their habit of accusing the opposition of the very thing that they themselves are guilty of. The GOP plays "identity politics"? Really?

Absolutely.

Don’t be a race traitor. Keep America white. Vote Republican.
Keep people out from shithole countries. Vote Republican.

Dragonlady is the perfect example of how liberals use identity politics to attack the GOP. Trump calls for common sense immigration reform...something that we should have done YEARS ago! So what do people like DL fixate on? That Trump thinks some parts of the world are worse than others? Something that may not be politically correct but is 100% accurate?

Liberals also want common sense comprehensive immigration reform: improved border security, more rapid adjudication and deportation for violent offenses, some sort of expanded system for legal work permits so as to reduce pressure to immigrate illegally, and expanding the number of merit based while not eliminating non merit based immigration. Even so called shithole countries have given us great people.

conservatives want those exact same things, Why doesn't congress want them?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Yep, very good point. And "rejection" is a very good term.

The GOP is doing this to themselves, and they don't have to. They've been led down the wrong road.
.

You know what I find most amusing about the left these days, Mac? It's their habit of accusing the opposition of the very thing that they themselves are guilty of. The GOP plays "identity politics"? Really?

Partisan ideologues do that. I can't speak for Coyote, but I think the two sides play that game differently. The Left is aggressive, cynical and blatant in its use of Identity Politics, and with the Right it's a more de facto, indirect thing.
.

The left says "you don't have what you deserve because that person over there took it from you"...the right says "we can help you become that person over there." That's the "game".

Not from a minority person's perspective. The GOP can ignore that if it wants to.
.

It is like Dems ignoring the voices in areas hard hit by the recession that still haven’t recovered and are unlikely to given that the traditional industries and jobs that supported them are gone. No amount of tariffs and propping up coal will bring back jobs lost to automation and changing market places. The Dems need to listen and speak to those needs because it is a universal message.

We are.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The history of either party is irrelevant when it comes to civil rights because both parties have changed positions over the years. Reagan gave amnesty to illegals in the 80’s, too, but that would never happen today.

^ What a loser.

I bet you were the kid who always flipped the game board over and stormed away when you realized you weren't going to win.


Change requires effort. It takes hard work, perseverence and time. It also requires a healthy dose of flexibility. Something the right has never understood. It's always anger and fear. It's civil war, killing or otherwise blowing it all up with them. If you're tired of being bested, then better yourself.

Interesting take on things, Hutch! So when Obama won...did the right take to the streets wearing black uniforms with their faces covered to destroy property and shut down cities? That just happened with the left when Trump won. So who's REALLY the purveyors of anger and fear these days? Which party is the "flexible" one these days?

Great example of my point. Thank you.

More fear mongering. Try addressing my point. When has the right mobilized for change in any real way? The tea party movement tried but was never a unified front and fizzled out.

If we can revitalize the middle class, that will be a pleasant change, that we did.

That would be a great thing but it's a big "if", especially the way it's being tried.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

Electing Trump is not mobilizing for change.
I have never seen conservatives marching by the hundreds of thousands under a unified message of a specific change. Ever.

 

[Coyote]

Do you feel it's over, then?

The country is turning browner as we speak, so it's either do something or punt.

Which is it?
.

We've done/or are doing pretty much all we can.


What are you going to do about it?

After all, this is a problem coming from the Left, I'm on the outside, unable to even get a listen from 99.999 per cent of you guys.


If America is going to avoid a meltdown, maybe the answer can only come from your side.

If the GOP is going to just roll over, and that appears to be the case, it'll make things tougher on anyone trying to stop this.

I'm on the outside looking in, too. The Regressives have virtually total control of the party right now. I'm doing things locally, and that's the only thing I can think of to do at this point.
.

What exactly do you think we could DO?

Please see post 98.
.

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

Liberals pushed for that until it reached a tipping point, then it became widespread. Parties and ideologies are two different things as the southern Dems were absolutely conservative. But here is where I think the GOP does make them feel like their voices are not heard, Black Lives Matter. What is ignored is the huge groundswell of anger at their concerns being ignored for years. Instead of listening they are demonized, their kids are labeled thugs. How is that different than the rust belt being labeled racist because they see illegal immigrants as taking their jobs?

 

[Coyote]

I think without term limits for all in government, it is a tough climb.

And of course, the people who could make that happen are the people who want it the least.

Term limits never made much sense to me. They're a bandaid at best. At worst, a hinderance. Think about. If our system was otherwise working correctly, and we have a rep we like, we should be able to keep them in office.

I agree. We'd be stuck with a Congress full of novices who are continually on a learning curve.

I agree in it for a prez, but that is it. Let the electorate provide term limits.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

This is exactly how you are thinking and what the RW media tells you.

Tell us some more about how the left is ruining everything.

Besides supporting the destruction of public education, supporting H1B visas, banking deregulation which actually screws African-Americans, passing legislation that makes it harder to catch people involved in sex trafficking and sending mixed messages by supporting candidates that support the NRA, as well as, attacking Democratic candidates. Not to mention the DNC BS. How could I forget.........unable to read bills.

And that's just my cup of coffee.

Tell us some more about how the Democratic Party is all about the good guys.

Another timely example. Thank you.