Conservatives sold themselves two lies

[rightwinger]

Interesting take on things, Hutch! So when Obama won...did the right take to the streets wearing black uniforms with their faces covered to destroy property and shut down cities? That just happened with the left when Trump won. So who's REALLY the purveyors of anger and fear these days? Which party is the "flexible" one these days?

Great example of my point. Thank you.

More fear mongering. Try addressing my point. When has the right mobilized for change in any real way? The tea party movement tried but was never a unified front and fizzled out.

If we can revitalize the middle class, that will be a pleasant change, that we did.

That would be a great thing but it's a big "if", especially the way it's being tried.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

Electing Trump is not mobilizing for change.
I have never seen conservatives marching by the hundreds of thousands under a unified message of a specific change. Ever.

You forgot the Tea Tards

 

[Disir]

This is exactly how you are thinking and what the RW media tells you.

Tell us some more about how the left is ruining everything.

Besides supporting the destruction of public education, supporting H1B visas, banking deregulation which actually screws African-Americans, passing legislation that makes it harder to catch people involved in sex trafficking and sending mixed messages by supporting candidates that support the NRA, as well as, attacking Democratic candidates. Not to mention the DNC BS. How could I forget.........unable to read bills.

And that's just my cup of coffee.

Tell us some more about how the Democratic Party is all about the good guys.

Another timely example. Thank you.

I'm a liberal. Try again.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

That's mistake #2 I mention above, assuming that your top priorities (economy, jobs) are their top priorities.

I'm telling you, it isn't. And they know that you don't know that, and that only makes things even worse.
.

I'm NOT assuming that. We just don't have any better tools to work with.


We can't outshout them to get our message across, the left owns the media and pop culture.


Hell, they are starting to censor the internet.


We can't out bribe them. The government is broke and we know it. We can't compete with the Left when it comes to spending money we don't have. We just can't.


If we try to out pander them by offering to discriminate more against whites, we A. will still fail to win minority votes and will B. lose white votes, and C. immediately marginalize the majority of the nation from the political process.

You're simply lazy.

Look at the march in DC yesterday. Hundreds of thousands of people. That is how change starts.

You have children out playing you.

"Marches" have been assimilated into the system. They are part of the status quo and nothing new.


The children are saying NOTHING new. THey are not new ideas. Just useful spokesmen.

"Marches" have been assimilated into the system. They are part of the status quo and nothing new.

Nothing new but very effective. It's the formula that has brought about every significant change over my lifetime.

You all like to laugh and belittle them and then are supprised and cry when the change happens.

Increasing government control at the cost of our freedoms is not change. It is part of a much larger trend that has been going on for a long time.


They are supporting the status quo.

It has been going on for a long time. Very effectively. That's the point.

 

[rightwinger]

term limits, age limits, curtail lobbying, pass the 28th amendment. Find a way to make the media unbiased------------that last one is the hardest.

28th Amendment?

Is that the one banning Muslims and gays?

 

[Redfish]

Interesting take on things, Hutch! So when Obama won...did the right take to the streets wearing black uniforms with their faces covered to destroy property and shut down cities? That just happened with the left when Trump won. So who's REALLY the purveyors of anger and fear these days? Which party is the "flexible" one these days?

Great example of my point. Thank you.

More fear mongering. Try addressing my point. When has the right mobilized for change in any real way? The tea party movement tried but was never a unified front and fizzled out.

If we can revitalize the middle class, that will be a pleasant change, that we did.

That would be a great thing but it's a big "if", especially the way it's being tried.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

Electing Trump is not mobilizing for change.
I have never seen conservatives marching by the hundreds of thousands under a unified message of a specific change. Ever.

of course not, but we have seen despots using kids as pawns before----------Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mussolini, Hiro Hito. The methods of the left have not changed.

 

[LoneLaugher]

We've done/or are doing pretty much all we can.


What are you going to do about it?

After all, this is a problem coming from the Left, I'm on the outside, unable to even get a listen from 99.999 per cent of you guys.


If America is going to avoid a meltdown, maybe the answer can only come from your side.

If the GOP is going to just roll over, and that appears to be the case, it'll make things tougher on anyone trying to stop this.

I'm on the outside looking in, too. The Regressives have virtually total control of the party right now. I'm doing things locally, and that's the only thing I can think of to do at this point.
.

What exactly do you think we could DO?

Please see post 98.
.

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

Liberals pushed for that until it reached a tipping point, then it became widespread. Parties and ideologies are two different things as the southern Dems were absolutely conservative. But here is where I think the GOP does make them feel like their voices are not heard, Black Lives Matter. What is ignored is the huge groundswell of anger at their concerns being ignored for years. Instead of listening they are demonized, their kids are labeled thugs. How is that different than the rust belt being labeled racist because they see illegal immigrants as taking their jobs?

Nobody in the rust belt has been labeled racist simply for concern over losing jobs. That's especially true since the REAL reason jobs were lost has nothing to do with ethnic minorities.

 

[Correll]

We've done that. All it does in support the vile lefty lying narrative that the GOP is the party of racism.


It failed.

Gee.....I wonder why?


Libs are successful because they offer inclusion.
Cons offer exclusion at ever opportunity.

Would you care to give your best example of the GOP offering "exclusion"?

Really?
If you have to ask that question then you'll never get it.

The GOP would LOVE to get some support from minority voters that agree with us on the issues.


We've tried.


That's an attempt at INCLUSION.


Do you want me to back that up? I'll be happy to.


I challenge you to give me your best example of the GOP being "exclusion".

Republicans found it more profitable to use minorities as scapegoats for all that is wrong with society

RW! That was, for a lib, a real attempt at a point! Good for you.


And talking Law and Order while mobs are rioting and burning in the cities, is a very reasonable and restrained response.

 

[Redfish]

I think without term limits for all in government, it is a tough climb.

And of course, the people who could make that happen are the people who want it the least.

Term limits never made much sense to me. They're a bandaid at best. At worst, a hinderance. Think about. If our system was otherwise working correctly, and we have a rep we like, we should be able to keep them in office.

I agree. We'd be stuck with a Congress full of novices who are continually on a learning curve.

I agree in it for a prez, but that is it. Let the electorate provide term limits.

as long as there is pork, the electorate will not vote out the crooks. We need a constitutional amendment.

 

[Redfish]

term limits, age limits, curtail lobbying, pass the 28th amendment. Find a way to make the media unbiased------------that last one is the hardest.

28th Amendment?

Is that the one banning Muslims and gays?

No idiot, its the one that requires congress to live by the laws it makes for us to live by.

what is your obsession with muslims and gays? are you a gay muslim?

 

[dblack]

“Identity politics” is a myth.

Defending the rights and protected liberties of blacks, Hispanics, gay and transgender Americans and women from attack by Republican/conservative lawmakers is not “Identity politics.”

That's not what people are referring to with the term "identity politics". Rights are equal and universal. Identity politics refers to the way government is moving away from the goal of protecting equal, universal rights, and toward a system where everyone gets a different deal depending on which special interest group they belong to. And it's not just present in civil rights law. This principle is most egregiously exhibited in our tax code, which is replete with special favors for special people.

 

[Correll]

Interesting take on things, Hutch! So when Obama won...did the right take to the streets wearing black uniforms with their faces covered to destroy property and shut down cities? That just happened with the left when Trump won. So who's REALLY the purveyors of anger and fear these days? Which party is the "flexible" one these days?

Great example of my point. Thank you.

More fear mongering. Try addressing my point. When has the right mobilized for change in any real way? The tea party movement tried but was never a unified front and fizzled out.

If we can revitalize the middle class, that will be a pleasant change, that we did.

That would be a great thing but it's a big "if", especially the way it's being tried.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

Electing Trump is not mobilizing for change.
I have never seen conservatives marching by the hundreds of thousands under a unified message of a specific change. Ever.

Now you are moving the goal post on what "mobilizing for change" is.


Trump is a true outsider. The leadership of both parties fought against him. THe big money of both parties fought against him.

The policies he ran on, if implemented, will reverse bi-partisan policies with generations behind them.


Trump is the modern day version of a peasant revolt.

 

[Redfish]

“Identity politics” is a myth.

Defending the rights and protected liberties of blacks, Hispanics, gay and transgender Americans and women from attack by Republican/conservative lawmakers is not “Identity politics.”

That's not what people are referring to with the term "identity politics". Rights are equal and universal. Identity politics refers to the way government is moving away from the goal of protecting equal, universal rights, and toward a system where everyone gets a different deal depending on which special interest group they belong to. And it's not just present in civil rights law. This principle is most egregiously exhibited in our taxed code, which is replete with special favors for special people.

the tax bill that was passed last year does away with some of those breaks for "special" people. long way to go but it was a start.

 

[Redfish]

Great example of my point. Thank you.

More fear mongering. Try addressing my point. When has the right mobilized for change in any real way? The tea party movement tried but was never a unified front and fizzled out.

If we can revitalize the middle class, that will be a pleasant change, that we did.

That would be a great thing but it's a big "if", especially the way it's being tried.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

Electing Trump is not mobilizing for change.
I have never seen conservatives marching by the hundreds of thousands under a unified message of a specific change. Ever.

Now you are moving the goal post on what "mobilizing for change" is.


Trump is a true outsider. The leadership of both parties fought against him. THe big money of both parties fought against him.

The policies he ran on, if implemented, will reverse bi-partisan policies with generations behind them.


Trump is the modern day version of a peasant revolt.

grab the pitch forks, light the torches----------------storm the bastille!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Correll]

We've done/or are doing pretty much all we can.


What are you going to do about it?

After all, this is a problem coming from the Left, I'm on the outside, unable to even get a listen from 99.999 per cent of you guys.


If America is going to avoid a meltdown, maybe the answer can only come from your side.

If the GOP is going to just roll over, and that appears to be the case, it'll make things tougher on anyone trying to stop this.

I'm on the outside looking in, too. The Regressives have virtually total control of the party right now. I'm doing things locally, and that's the only thing I can think of to do at this point.
.

What exactly do you think we could DO?

Please see post 98.
.

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

Liberals pushed for that until it reached a tipping point, then it became widespread. Parties and ideologies are two different things as the southern Dems were absolutely conservative. But here is where I think the GOP does make them feel like their voices are not heard, Black Lives Matter. What is ignored is the huge groundswell of anger at their concerns being ignored for years. Instead of listening they are demonized, their kids are labeled thugs. How is that different than the rust belt being labeled racist because they see illegal immigrants as taking their jobs?

1. The GOP of the 50 and 60s that pushed racial equality was not "liberal", Nixon had rock solid anti-communist cred.

2. Black concerns have not been ignored for years. They have constantly been addressed.

3. They were addressed badly by cowardly or corrupt politician that for different reasons would not address the real causes of the problems, but lack of addressed did not happen.

 

[Correll]

I'm NOT assuming that. We just don't have any better tools to work with.


We can't outshout them to get our message across, the left owns the media and pop culture.


Hell, they are starting to censor the internet.


We can't out bribe them. The government is broke and we know it. We can't compete with the Left when it comes to spending money we don't have. We just can't.


If we try to out pander them by offering to discriminate more against whites, we A. will still fail to win minority votes and will B. lose white votes, and C. immediately marginalize the majority of the nation from the political process.

You're simply lazy.

Look at the march in DC yesterday. Hundreds of thousands of people. That is how change starts.

You have children out playing you.

"Marches" have been assimilated into the system. They are part of the status quo and nothing new.


The children are saying NOTHING new. THey are not new ideas. Just useful spokesmen.

"Marches" have been assimilated into the system. They are part of the status quo and nothing new.

Nothing new but very effective. It's the formula that has brought about every significant change over my lifetime.

You all like to laugh and belittle them and then are supprised and cry when the change happens.

Increasing government control at the cost of our freedoms is not change. It is part of a much larger trend that has been going on for a long time.


They are supporting the status quo.

It has been going on for a long time. Very effectively. That's the point.

So, we have kids marching in the streets to continue the growth of government at the expense of the individual and you want to celebrate that as change?


We are speaking different languages.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Great example of my point. Thank you.

More fear mongering. Try addressing my point. When has the right mobilized for change in any real way? The tea party movement tried but was never a unified front and fizzled out.

If we can revitalize the middle class, that will be a pleasant change, that we did.

That would be a great thing but it's a big "if", especially the way it's being tried.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

Electing Trump is not mobilizing for change.
I have never seen conservatives marching by the hundreds of thousands under a unified message of a specific change. Ever.

You forgot the Tea Tards

They were very noisy but not much else. The most that accomplished was to solidify obstruction against Obama.

 

[Coyote]

.........

We've been trying for generations. THat you never even heard of it, just shows how doomed the attempts were.


I support and appreciate your efforts against the regressives.


But, continuing to use language like "the republicans have rejected minorities" is part of the problem.

Well, I haven't seen it, and I'm paying attention. Maybe it wasn't done very well.
.

Maybe you were lied to about it, by sources you trust.

Do you really think that the only input I have is the media? I'm living my life. Talking to people. Listening. Observing.

This is part of being led down the wrong path. You can't just point at the media and say that's the problem. You have to be curious.
.

So, what in your life, told you that the GOP is racist?

Nothing in my life has told me the entire GOP is racist.

But I have seen many individual examples. And further, while I'm half Hispanic, I look more like my Austrian side. So I've sat there and listened to some pretty nasty shit from people who didn't know my ethnicity. Many, many, many times.

And when I see the party refuse to even admit this stuff still exists, when I see them refuse to clearly go after it, it only solidifies my view.
.

Neither Party is racist. There are no racist planks or policies on the platforms. That ends up being a diversionary exercise in demonizing that avoids the real issue. The parties can’t control who joins and what they say, but their leadership can speak up. I am very disappointed that the current GOP under Trump seems to have made white nationalists feel empowered and the push back has been very weak.

 

[Mac1958]

I am very disappointed that the current GOP under Trump seems to have made white nationalists feel empowered and the push back has been very weak.

.. and minorities have noticed.
.

 

[Correll]

.........

Well, I haven't seen it, and I'm paying attention. Maybe it wasn't done very well.
.

Maybe you were lied to about it, by sources you trust.

Do you really think that the only input I have is the media? I'm living my life. Talking to people. Listening. Observing.

This is part of being led down the wrong path. You can't just point at the media and say that's the problem. You have to be curious.
.

So, what in your life, told you that the GOP is racist?

Nothing in my life has told me the entire GOP is racist.

But I have seen many individual examples. And further, while I'm half Hispanic, I look more like my Austrian side. So I've sat there and listened to some pretty nasty shit from people who didn't know my ethnicity. Many, many, many times.

And when I see the party refuse to even admit this stuff still exists, when I see them refuse to clearly go after it, it only solidifies my view.
.

Neither Party is racist. There are no racist planks or policies on the platforms. That ends up being a diversionary exercise in demonizing that avoids the real issue. The parties can’t control who joins and what they say, but their leadership can speak up. I am very disappointed that the current GOP under Trump seems to have made white nationalists feel empowered and the push back has been very weak.

There are hard numbers showing massive and wide spread discrimination against whites in ivy league admissions, for one limited example.


The new haven firefighter case showed the dems support racist discrimination.



White nationalists are a non issue with a few thousand supporters. They don't deserve the notice of push back.

 

[Coyote]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

First.......They don’t care
Second.......They don’t care

They have a mentality of we won ...who cares about anyone else?

Hate to say it but isn’t that similar to the Dems in 2008? They stopped listening to a substantial section of their former base. And Trump picked them up...