Conservatives sold themselves two lies

[Oldstyle]

I assure you that the GOP is well aware that the country's changing demographics are a problem! It's also a problem for black Democrats as well but they haven't quite figured that out yet. Hispanics hold the whip hand in American politics because we've flooded the country with them for the past forty years. "Minority power" now rests in the hands of people speaking Spanish and they understand how to leverage that power far more than the black community ever did. That's going to be an issue for black Democrats because things that used to go to THEIR communities to ensure votes for Democrats will now more and more be headed for Hispanic communities.

What happens next is pretty much up to the GOP, unless it's just too late. Look through this thread, and you'll see many posts by conservatives who say either (1) they've tried to reach to minorities and it didn't work, or (2) minorities are freeloaders and commies and blah blah blah. Well, either way, the GOP loses.

For how many decades has the GOP just stood back and allowed the Democrats to placate minorities? Three? Four? Five? This didn't happen overnight, and is mentioned above, the GOP really fucked up with Hispanics. Even if the GOP did decide to really reach out, which I don't see happening, it would take time, and I don't think the party has that much time.
.

Why would you want to be "placated", Mac? Do you even grasp what it is you're saying there? Democrats have "placated" minorities for decades...taking their votes in return for a lot of empty promises and very little delivered. I viewed the Barack Obama Administration as a watershed moment in black politics...not because he was the first black President (as important as that was!) but because even though blacks had one of "theirs" in the White House...things didn't change for them. If the narrative is that your people are being held down "by the man" but the man in charge is black and nothing changes...then might the narrative be false?

What Trump offered the black community was his promise to do things to make their lives better with a stronger economy and jobs. Not handouts. Not something to placate them. No, Trump offered to give them real opportunity to make their own lives better by themselves...not because some big government agency gave them some crumbs to get by on. I think that message resonates DESPITE how the main stream media and the Democrats try to brand Trump as a racist. Talk is cheap and liberals have done little but talk when it comes to helping the black community.

I don't want to be placated, and I find the whole notion insulting. That's not what I'm saying.

I'm talking about perception. Perception is everything in politics. And the perception in the minority communities, from black to brown to yellow, is that the GOP doesn't want them here. And that's a shitload more important than the stock market or the unemployment rate. It doesn't matter if it's true. It doesn't matter if the Democrats got the advantage in an unfair way. It's the perception.

That's the fact.That's where we are, right now, today.

So, (a) is the GOP planning on doing anything about that, and (b) if so, what? Because I'm not seeing any effort at all. Nothing that matters.
.

That's the "perception" that the Democrats and the liberal media WANT the minority community to have, Mac but that isn't what Donald Trump or the GOP is telling them! Trump is telling them that success is color blind. That the American dream isn't something that's given to you by Big Government but something that you create for yourself and that Democrats aren't there to make that happen for you because doing so takes power out of THEIR hands and gives it back to you!

 

[Mac1958]

I assure you that the GOP is well aware that the country's changing demographics are a problem! It's also a problem for black Democrats as well but they haven't quite figured that out yet. Hispanics hold the whip hand in American politics because we've flooded the country with them for the past forty years. "Minority power" now rests in the hands of people speaking Spanish and they understand how to leverage that power far more than the black community ever did. That's going to be an issue for black Democrats because things that used to go to THEIR communities to ensure votes for Democrats will now more and more be headed for Hispanic communities.

What happens next is pretty much up to the GOP, unless it's just too late. Look through this thread, and you'll see many posts by conservatives who say either (1) they've tried to reach to minorities and it didn't work, or (2) minorities are freeloaders and commies and blah blah blah. Well, either way, the GOP loses.

For how many decades has the GOP just stood back and allowed the Democrats to placate minorities? Three? Four? Five? This didn't happen overnight, and is mentioned above, the GOP really fucked up with Hispanics. Even if the GOP did decide to really reach out, which I don't see happening, it would take time, and I don't think the party has that much time.
.

Why would you want to be "placated", Mac? Do you even grasp what it is you're saying there? Democrats have "placated" minorities for decades...taking their votes in return for a lot of empty promises and very little delivered. I viewed the Barack Obama Administration as a watershed moment in black politics...not because he was the first black President (as important as that was!) but because even though blacks had one of "theirs" in the White House...things didn't change for them. If the narrative is that your people are being held down "by the man" but the man in charge is black and nothing changes...then might the narrative be false?

What Trump offered the black community was his promise to do things to make their lives better with a stronger economy and jobs. Not handouts. Not something to placate them. No, Trump offered to give them real opportunity to make their own lives better by themselves...not because some big government agency gave them some crumbs to get by on. I think that message resonates DESPITE how the main stream media and the Democrats try to brand Trump as a racist. Talk is cheap and liberals have done little but talk when it comes to helping the black community.

I don't want to be placated, and I find the whole notion insulting. That's not what I'm saying.

I'm talking about perception. Perception is everything in politics. And the perception in the minority communities, from black to brown to yellow, is that the GOP doesn't want them here. And that's a shitload more important than the stock market or the unemployment rate. It doesn't matter if it's true. It doesn't matter if the Democrats got the advantage in an unfair way. It's the perception.

That's the fact.That's where we are, right now, today.

So, (a) is the GOP planning on doing anything about that, and (b) if so, what? Because I'm not seeing any effort at all. Nothing that matters.
.

That's the "perception" that the Democrats and the liberal media WANT the minority community to have, Mac but that isn't what Donald Trump or the GOP is telling them! Trump is telling them that success is color blind. That the American dream isn't something that's given to you by Big Government but something that you create for yourself and that Democrats aren't there to make that happen for you because doing so takes power out of THEIR hands and gives it back to you!

Minorities don't buy that.

NOW what?
.

 

[Oldstyle]

So the question then becomes...is the black community sharp enough to figure out that they're going to be ignored more and more by Democrats as their voting block becomes smaller and smaller and that they need to work with someone who does more than just give them empty promises?

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm not quite sure what it is you think the GOP should be doing that they're not? Promise minorities more freebies and then not deliver? Become another variation of the same theme Democrats are using? How does that "work" to make the Party better?

 

[DOTR]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

You are selling yourself a lie...and the first starts with "conservatism". It has been a failure. It is THAT recognition which put Trump in office and will keep him there.
Nobody thought it would go "swimmingly". Well nobody with a brain. You can check my previous posts on this back as long as I have been a member. Trump is doing fine but we know we face an entrenched elite. Trump was the political hand grenade we threw into the swamp but that is only part of the battle.
If you are speaking of the spending bill we know democrats will always hold the military hostage for their constituents overseas. I think Trump knows it as well.

But you snicker because the people are thwarted again. That only makes your reckoning worse.

I think that "political hand grenade" is a very appropriate metaphor for Trump. Lots of destruction and collateral damage. And sometimes the grenade goes off in the thrower's hand.

That actually brings up a third lie they told themselves: That the hand grenade known as Trump was the only option they had left. That trotting out a grotesque, vulgar man-child as a middle finger to the country was all they could do. Dubya, then Palin, now Trump - when did the GOP become so anti-intellectual, so shallow, so simplistic?

My guess is that Trump is a primal scream, a last gasp. We'll see.
.

Have you ears but hear not? The GOP didn’t put Trump into office. They did everything they could to stop him.

 

[DOTR]

My guess is that Trump is a primal scream, a last gasp. We'll see.
.

It wasn’t a primal scream. Trumps election was one of those low, rumbling growls.
You were shocked at his election? You missed the warning growl? Then, respectfully, you haven’t been listening.

 

[easyt65]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Liberals think too much...


In 2016 the country was faced with 2 options:
1. A career self-serving, scandal-plagued criminal politicians who never did anything that did not benefit herself and / or help towards achieving her goal of ultimately becoming President, a woman who was under multiple investigations for crimes she was proven to have committed, a woman who did not even win her party's nomination but was exposed as having broken laws, rigged primaries, cheated in debates, and even committed treason by colluding with a foreign spy working with Russians and illegally using hit report in the US election she eventually lost. She screwed Bernie and his followers, and they turned on her.
-- Yeah, who could day 'No' to that?!

2. Donald Trump, a self-professed champion of the people, a complete anti-Washington Establishment / Anti-Career politician NON-Politician who gave voice to every pissed off American who was tired of getting F*ed b both sides.

I completely agree that many Americans saw that 2nd and only 2nd image of Trump, forgetting how he had posed for pictures with the Clintons, had given them millions, and who was NOT a 'Conservative'...but he was the 'lesser of 2 evils'.

He never hid anything - did not hide the personality he has now, did not hide his Tweeting, etc.

And if anyone is disappointed in what he has failed to accomplished then they seriously underestimated the level of self-serving, party-1st, Washington establishment corruption that existed - and still exists - in DC...on both sides.

I mean, for God's sake, the left has engaged in open, public sedition and treason, as has been exposed. Schumer immediately upon Trump
s win that the (Hillary-owned) DNC and all of his colleagues were 100% committed to obstructing everything the GOP and President were going to try to do....for the good of the PARTY! That, of course, has paled in comparison to the revelation of Obama's 'Secret Society', the 'Insurance Policy' plan out into action once Trump won, the criminal obstruction, paying foreign spies for debunked info they illegally used to obtain FISA warrants used to spy on the GOP candidate during an election, working for Hillary - her donor tipping them off about an overheard drunken conversation between himself and a self-important unpaid Trump volunteer in the bathroom of a British pub...etc...

The Democrats are trying to destroy him out of revenge, the Washington Establishment GOP are trying to destroy him to show the Americans who elected him that THEYT can't / don't get to pick candidates because that is THEIR job....

So far Trump has accomplished more in just over a year than Barry did in 8 years....and most of what he accomplished has overturned, erased, eliminated.... Trump has reportedly accomplished more than REAGAN...and that is with all the sedition, treason, undermining, colluding, scheming, and opposition from the left and the right.

Imagine what they could do if the party's in power really gave a sh!t about actually working for the good of the country instead of what they are dong now.....

 

[Mac1958]

My guess is that Trump is a primal scream, a last gasp. We'll see.
.

It wasn’t a primal scream. Trumps election was one of those low, rumbling growls.
You were shocked at his election? You missed the warning growl? Then, respectfully, you haven’t been listening.

Well, he did get 46.1% of the vote, which was more than I was expecting.

Do you see any danger signs on the horizon in the way of demographics, or do figure you have that covered?
.

 

[Mac1958]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Liberals think too much...


In 2016 the country was faced with 2 options:
1. A career self-serving, scandal-plagued criminal politicians who never did anything that did not benefit herself and / or help towards achieving her goal of ultimately becoming President, a woman who was under multiple investigations for crimes she was proven to have committed, a woman who did not even win her party's nomination but was exposed as having broken laws, rigged primaries, cheated in debates, and even committed treason by colluding with a foreign spy working with Russians and illegally using hit report in the US election she eventually lost. She screwed Bernie and his followers, and they turned on her.
-- Yeah, who could day 'No' to that?!

2. Donald Trump, a self-professed champion of the people, a complete anti-Washington Establishment / Anti-Career politician NON-Politician who gave voice to every pissed off American who was tired of getting F*ed b both sides.

I completely agree that many Americans saw that 2nd and only 2nd image of Trump, forgetting how he had posed for pictures with the Clintons, had given them millions, and who was NOT a 'Conservative'...but he was the 'lesser of 2 evils'.

He never hid anything - did not hide the personality he has now, did not hide his Tweeting, etc.

And if anyone is disappointed in what he has failed to accomplished then they seriously underestimated the level of self-serving, party-1st, Washington establishment corruption that existed - and still exists - in DC...on both sides.

I mean, for God's sake, the left has engaged in open, public sedition and treason, as has been exposed. Schumer immediately upon Trump
s win that the (Hillary-owned) DNC and all of his colleagues were 100% committed to obstructing everything the GOP and President were going to try to do....for the good of the PARTY! That, of course, has paled in comparison to the revelation of Obama's 'Secret Society', the 'Insurance Policy' plan out into action once Trump won, the criminal obstruction, paying foreign spies for debunked info they illegally used to obtain FISA warrants used to spy on the GOP candidate during an election, working for Hillary - her donor tipping them off about an overheard drunken conversation between himself and a self-important unpaid Trump volunteer in the bathroom of a British pub...etc...

The Democrats are trying to destroy him out of revenge, the Washington Establishment GOP are trying to destroy him to show the Americans who elected him that THEYT can't / don't get to pick candidates because that is THEIR job....

So far Trump has accomplished more in just over a year than Barry did in 8 years....and most of what he accomplished has overturned, erased, eliminated.... Trump has reportedly accomplished more than REAGAN...and that is with all the sedition, treason, undermining, colluding, scheming, and opposition from the left and the right.

Imagine what they could do if the party's in power really gave a sh!t about actually working for the good of the country instead of what they are dong now.....

Same question I pose in post 408.
.

 

[Mac1958]

I'm not quite sure what it is you think the GOP should be doing that they're not? Promise minorities more freebies and then not deliver? Become another variation of the same theme Democrats are using? How does that "work" to make the Party better?

I don't know. But if you don't need them, and that's definitely what they think, then you don't have to worry.
.

 

[9thIDdoc]

OP appears to be in denial about how the majority of Americans see the issues.

What majority? Trump got 46.1%.

Can you guess who got 48.2%?

What is your personal definition of the term "majority of Americans"?
.

The election is ancient history as is Mrs. Clinton who claimed to be on all sides of every issue anyway.
48.2% is NOT a majority. And illegal aliens are NOT Americans. Catch up.

 

[Mac1958]

OP appears to be in denial about how the majority of Americans see the issues.

What majority? Trump got 46.1%.

Can you guess who got 48.2%?

What is your personal definition of the term "majority of Americans"?
.

The election is ancient history as is Mrs. Clinton who claimed to be on all sides of every issue anyway.
48.2% is NOT a majority. And illegal aliens are NOT Americans. Catch up.

Looks like that "majority" claim of yours fell apart pretty quickly there.

I know you're going to just going to spout off talk radio talking points, but some of us are paying attention.
.

 

[9thIDdoc]

OP appears to be in denial about how the majority of Americans see the issues.

What majority? Trump got 46.1%.

Can you guess who got 48.2%?

What is your personal definition of the term "majority of Americans"?
.

The election is ancient history as is Mrs. Clinton who claimed to be on all sides of every issue anyway.
48.2% is NOT a majority. And illegal aliens are NOT Americans. Catch up.

Looks like that "majority" claim of yours fell apart pretty quickly there.

I know you're going to just going to spout off talk radio talking points, but some of us are paying attention.
.

Some of you are paying attention to nothing but your own bullshit. The election results have nothing what-so-ever to do with the current attitude of Americans on the issues. Those of your ilk were out of touch then and history teaches you nothing. You're just in love with that swamp that President Trump is working to drain.

 

[DOTR]

So now, if you want your old America back, you'll have to change minds. I don't see anyone on the Right actually trying to do that. All I see is denial of the obvious and a circling of the wagons. A parroting of the phrases and (worse) thought processes they pick up from talk radio.
You'll have to do better than that. I don't think the Right knows how.
.

There you go again thinking you set the rules we play by.

 

[DOTR]

OP appears to be in denial about how the majority of Americans see the issues.

What majority? Trump got 46.1%.

Can you guess who got 48.2%?

What is your personal definition of the term "majority of Americans"?
.

The election is ancient history as is Mrs. Clinton who claimed to be on all sides of every issue anyway.
48.2% is NOT a majority. And illegal aliens are NOT Americans. Catch up.

Looks like that "majority" claim of yours fell apart pretty quickly there.

I know you're going to just going to spout off talk radio talking points, but some of us are paying attention.
.

His majority claim didn’t fall apart. He stated that Trump sees the issues as a majority of Americans do. You then switched it to vote totals.
While it would be hard to prove his claim of being on the majority side his view is as valid as anyone’s.

 

[DOTR]

Do you see any danger signs on the horizon in the way of demographics, or do figure you have that covered?
.

Danger to what?

 

[DOTR]

OP appears to be in denial about how the majority of Americans see the issues.

What majority? Trump got 46.1%.

Can you guess who got 48.2%?

What is your personal definition of the term "majority of Americans"?
.

The election is ancient history as is Mrs. Clinton who claimed to be on all sides of every issue anyway.
48.2% is NOT a majority. And illegal aliens are NOT Americans. Catch up.

I really and truly believe the ruling elites simply jumped too soon. They assumed they had imported enough foreigners to outvote us. Not quite. But they almost had it.

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm not quite sure what it is you think the GOP should be doing that they're not? Promise minorities more freebies and then not deliver? Become another variation of the same theme Democrats are using? How does that "work" to make the Party better?

I don't know. But if you don't need them, and that's definitely what they think, then you don't have to worry.
.

It's not that we need THEM, Mac...it's that the other guys haven't done right by them which means it might be time to look elsewhere! If I were a black person living in the United States...I'd be taking a long hard look at who's promised me a lot in exchange for my vote and what they've delivered on those promises. Especially once the Hispanic voting block becomes so large that the black voting block becomes an afterthought for Democrats!

 

[deanrd]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Only two?

I count more.

Trickle down is actually trickle "on".

Tax cuts for rich people don't create jobs.

Dirty air and dirty water are NOT good economics.

Colleges are NOT bad for America.

Saddam had no WMD's.

The list is endless.

 

[Dragonlady]

OP appears to be in denial about how the majority of Americans see the issues.

What majority? Trump got 46.1%.

Can you guess who got 48.2%?

What is your personal definition of the term "majority of Americans"?
.

The election is ancient history as is Mrs. Clinton who claimed to be on all sides of every issue anyway.
48.2% is NOT a majority. And illegal aliens are NOT Americans. Catch up.

Looks like that "majority" claim of yours fell apart pretty quickly there.

I know you're going to just going to spout off talk radio talking points, but some of us are paying attention.
.

Some of you are paying attention to nothing but your own bullshit. The election results have nothing what-so-ever to do with the current attitude of Americans on the issues. Those of your ilk were out of touch then and history teaches you nothing. You're just in love with that swamp that President Trump is working to drain.

Trump isn’t draining the swamp. He’s one of the guys who created it and who freely admits to bribing politicians as a businessman. By running for office, he’s just eliminated the middle man.