Conservative SCOTUS Justices FAIL: Backdoor Legislating by Marriage Attrition

[Syriusly]

Actual polling data from credible institutions clearly do not matter to those blinded by their anti-gay narrative. Chick-fil-a, Duck Dynasty's Facebook page, and a thread poll from this forum are the only evidence you need concerning the public's view on gay marriage. lol

It is a shame we cannot harness desperation as an alternate energy source.

And yet the states' electorates keep voting down gay marriage, some with overwhelming majorities...over and over and over..

November 2012
Maine
Maryland
Washington

Voters approved legalization of same sex marriage by popular votes.

Those are the three most recent votes by states electorates.

Once again- your claim is false.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Actual polling data from credible institutions clearly do not matter to those blinded by their anti-gay narrative. Chick-fil-a, Duck Dynasty's Facebook page, and a thread poll from this forum are the only evidence you need concerning the public's view on gay marriage. lol

It is a shame we cannot harness desperation as an alternate energy source.

And yet the states' electorates keep voting down gay marriage, some with overwhelming majorities...over and over and over..

November 2012
Maine
Maryland
Washington

Voters approved legalization of same sex marriage by popular votes.

Those are the three most recent votes by states electorates.

Once again- your claim is false.

You forgot Minnesota which also part of the November 2012 General Election, they voted to to put a discriminatory ban in their Constitution which allowed the Legislature to pass it by legislative vote.



>>>>

 

[Skylar]

Are you telling us that you have gone to every corner and hut in America and asked people?

This is the same guy that told us that he knew what the USSC Justices were thinking when they issued a stay for Utah a month or two back. Silo insisted that the Justices felt that gay marriage bans were constitutional just like he did. Silo insisted that the justices wanted the stay to apply to the entire country, just like he did. Silo insisted that the Justices wanted to reauthorize prop 8, just like he did.

Until the USSC lifted the stay, denied the appeal and preserved a lower court ruling that overturned Utah's gay marriage ban.

All Silo has done is found a new group to project his imagination upon. Same shit, different day.

 

[Silhouette]

November 2012
Maine
Maryland
Washington

Voters approved legalization of same sex marriage by popular votes.

Those are the three most recent votes by states electorates.

Once again- your claim is false.

Marriage is defined by the state. You have three states listed. Meanwhile the "churches" thread sports an 82% strong disapproval of forcing marraige on churches. It also has an "other than" option for those in favor of gay marriage but who didn't want to express strong disapproval of it in the other option. Meanwhile 82% expressed strong disapproval.

This poll is recent, in real time and the numbers are climing in disapproval. It isn't sanitized and it's one of the largest polls ever here at USMB. Most of the "strongly opposed" voters didn't post on the topic. They just silently voted and went away. So the fear of being ganged up on and called names like "homophobe" may have won fear but not the hearts of voters.

 

[Skylar]

It must be getting pretty lonely on that anti-gay branch of yours.

I feel like I've got a lot of company. 82% is a pretty big number to vigorously oppose forcing gay marriage on churches...

Yeah, but you're saying the 82% oppose gay marriage in general. And oppose gay adoption.

Things your straw poll never asks about. That's where you fail.

Well, that and the fact that your straw poll is only 140 people. And that its a straw poll, one of the most notoriously unreliable methods of polling since folks can vote multiple times. And the fact that you're contradicted by dozens of conventional polls from folks like Gallup, Rasmussen, AP and Pew.

So its more of a fail layer cake.

 

[Skylar]

Marriage is defined by the state.

Unless those definitions violate individual rights. See Loving V. Virginia for a superb example of exactly what happens then.

Meanwhile the "churches" thread sports an 82% strong disapproval of forcing marraige on churches.

Which has nothing to do with the the legality of gay marriage. Or gay adoption.

It also has an "other than" option for those in favor of gay marriage but who didn't want to express strong disapproval of it in the other option. Meanwhile 82% expressed strong disapproval.

That's not what your straw poll says 'other' is for. That's what you say 'other' is for. Back in reality, the straw poll doesn't ask about the legality of gay marriage.

And you fail again.

 

[Silhouette]

Yeah, but you're saying the 82% oppose gay marriage in general. And oppose gay adoption.

Things your straw poll never asks about. That's where you fail.

Well, that and the fact that your straw poll is only 140 people. And that its a straw poll, one of the most notoriously unreliable methods of polling since folks can vote multiple times. And the fact that you're contradicted by dozens of conventional polls from folks like Gallup, Rasmussen, AP and Pew.

So its more of a fail layer cake.

They do. The answer of "no" was in essence "oh HELL NO!". That's how we know. No gay advocate I've ever debated with has been anything but 100% zealous about zero-tolerance for rejection of their lifestyle in any venue. Voters on the poll had the option of "other than" and still 82% voiced strong opposition to gays forcing churches to marry them.

From there we extrapolate that 82% also would strongly opposed forcing churches to do other gay-lifestyle/marriage things, like adopt children to them.

Again, it is not my poll. I wasn't the OP of this thread: Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings Page 172 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I AM the author of this thread: Should Churches Be Forced to Accomodate for Homosexual Adoptions US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Which interestingly enough, sports a poll with the identical mid-80% "oh HELL NO!" to "should churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual ADOPTIONS" poll....again...with an option to pick "other than".

 

[Plasmaball]

Save of course that the conventional polls are entirely anonymous. Meaning your latest piece of imaginary nonsense can't even make hypothetical sense.

That sharp, bitter smell that's just oozing off you're skin? That's desperation. Get used to it.

The polls may be anonymous, but they still involve people asking people either on the phone or in person "do you support gay marriage". And if a society perceives an extremely negative attachment and reception by a VERY vocal and aggressive minority who are currently suing the pants off of anyone or destroying careers of anyone or stalking and giving out home addresses of anyone [county clerk of San Diego CA] who DARES to oppose gay marriage, you have an effective squelch on honesty.

So, I repeat, your polls vs chick fil-a, A&E Facebook Boycott in support of Phil Robertson and the 82% of the largest poll at USMB who said "oh HELL NO!" to forcing gay marraige on churches....is....problematic... as to the true margin of error...

they are irrelevant and all you are doing is grasping at straws.

 

[Skylar]

This poll is recent, in real time and the numbers are climing in disapproval.

The straw poll doesn't ask about the legality of gay marriage. So it never checks on sentiment about gay marriage legality. Making your claims of 'recent' more hogwash.

It isn't sanitized and it's one of the largest polls ever here at USMB. Most of the "strongly opposed" voters didn't post on the topic.

Its smaller than any of the conventional polls you're ignoring, as the USMB strawpoll has only 140 people answering. Most conventional polling starts in at around 800 to 3000. And of course there are dozens of conventional polls contradicting you. Meaning that the sampling size of people that contradict you are orders of magnitude larger than your straw poll.

And every one of those conventional polls asks about the legality of gay marriage. Your straw poll never does.

You fail again.

They just silently voted and went away. So the fear of being ganged up on and called names like "homophobe" may have won fear but not the hearts of voters.

Conventional polling is anonymous. So there's no fear of being 'ganged up on' or being called 'homophobe'.

You're done.

 

[Skylar]

They do. The answer of "no" was in essence "oh HELL NO!". That's how we know. No gay advocate I've ever debated with has been anything but 100% zealous about zero-tolerance for rejection of their lifestyle in any venue. Voters on the poll had the option of "other than" and still 82% voiced strong opposition to gays forcing churches to marry them.

Nope.... they don't. Here's the question from the straw poll: Should places of worship be required to hold gay weddings

That's it. There's nothing in there about the legality of gay marriage. Nothing in there about gay adoption. Or any of the other batshit nonsense that you've imagined.

You believe that gay marriage should be illegal. You believe that gay's shouldn't be allowed to adopt. And exactly like you did with the Supreme Court justices when they granted the stay to Utah, you're assuming that everyone else must believe what you do.

Laughing....so, um.....how's that working out for you?

 

[Skylar]

they are irrelevant and all you are doing is grasping at straws.

Yup. The moment Silo started insisting that an informal straw poll on a random message board with 140 respondents that doesn't even ask about the legality of gay marriage is the sole, authoritative source on the nation's sentiment on the legality of gay marriage....

.......he was done. As that's literally all Silo has left.

 

[Syriusly]

November 2012
Maine
Maryland
Washington

Voters approved legalization of same sex marriage by popular votes.

Those are the three most recent votes by states electorates.

Once again- your claim is false.

Marriage is defined by the state. You have three states listed.

I just demonstrated how another of your claims was just false.

The last three states to vote on the issue of gay marriage voted for marriage equality.

Your claim- like pretty much everything you claim- was false.

 

[Syriusly]

they are irrelevant and all you are doing is grasping at straws.

Yup. The moment Silo started insisting that an informal straw poll on a random message board with 140 respondents that doesn't even ask about the legality of gay marriage is the sole, authoritative source on the nation's sentiment on the legality of gay marriage....

.......he was done. As that's literally all Silo has left.

He still has his delusions......

 

[Silhouette]

Yup. The moment Silo started insisting that an informal straw poll on a random message board with 140 respondents that doesn't even ask about the legality of gay marriage is the sole, authoritative source on the nation's sentiment on the legality of gay marriage....

.......he was done. As that's literally all Silo has left.

A random message board that welcomes political views with uncensored free speech from all walks is PRECISELY the venue a pollster should be seeking. You have maximum anonymity, freedom to vote and disappear with impunity and no fear of being accosted. And we have a really good sampling of both sides of the aisle here at USMB...running almost exactly split between left and right sides of the aisle with more moderate views on either side included.

The legality of gay marriage is implied in the question. You cannot "force" anyone to do anything in America without the law behind you. You will recall that the word "force" is part of and intrinsic to the title of the question and the thread with 33,000+ views..

 

[Syriusly]

Yup. The moment Silo started insisting that an informal straw poll on a random message board with 140 respondents that doesn't even ask about the legality of gay marriage is the sole, authoritative source on the nation's sentiment on the legality of gay marriage....

.......he was done. As that's literally all Silo has left.

A random message board that welcomes political views with uncensored free speech from all walks is PRECISELY the venue a pollster should be seeking. .

Only if the pollster was looking to intentionally skew his results.

But no pollster would ever interpret a poll that doesn't ask about the legality of gay marriage as being a poll on the legality of gay marriage.

Like you do.

 

[Skylar]

A random message board that welcomes political views with uncensored free speech from all walks is PRECISELY the venue a pollster should be seeking.

Obviously it shouldn't. As any Ron Paul straw poll demonstrates. Straw polls are notoriously unreliable. No Pollster uses them because they don't work. The odds of accuracy using a straw poll are worse than guessing. Ron Paul won every straw poll in the 2008 election. He didn't carry a single state.

That's how awful straw poll methodology is at predicting actual voter sentiment. Because interested parties can vote in straw polls.....and they can vote more than once. And you're telling us that a pollsters should be seeking out the most notoriously unreliable method of polling....ever?

Laughing....no. They shouldn't. And of course, they don't.

You have maximum anonymity, freedom to vote and disappear with impunity and no fear of being accosted. And we have a really good sampling of both sides of the aisle here at USMB...running almost exactly split between left and right sides of the aisle with more moderate views on either side included.

I can tell you the handles of who commented on the thread. I can tell you their political views. Given the poster, they may have revealed information on their geography and profession. For example, you've worked as a farm hand. You've said you've worked in California. You've said you oppose gay marriage legality. And you posted in that thread.

How is that 'maximum anonymity'?

Now lets take a respondent to a conventional poll like say the Gallup poll from May 2014. You can't tell me the name of anyone who responded. You can't tell me their position on gay marriage. You can't tell me where they're from. You can't tell me what they do. You can't tell me their gender. You can't tell me their age. You know jack shit about any respondent the Gallup poll.

That's 'maximum anonymity'.

The legality of gay marriage is implied in the question. You cannot "force" anyone to do anything in America without the law behind you.

Nope. The legality of gay marriage is never even mentioned in your straw poll. Worse, we have poster after poster in that thread indicating their overwhelming support for gay marriage and opposition to requiring churches to accomidate gay weddings.

As the two issues are separate. One is marriage under the law. The other is religion. They are not the same thing. Oh, they're the same in YOUR mind. But just because you believe something doesn't mean that we have to.

Meanwhile, every single conventional poll on the topic asks *directly* about the legality of gay marriage. And the polls all show the same thing: support for gay marriage legality by a margin of 12 to 19 points.

 

[Silhouette]

September this year discussions were held on skewed gay marriage polling. And some of the "tricks of the trade"..

Panelists Seek To Unskew Polls Showing Support For Gay Marriage

At a panel on the future of marriage in the United States, Frank Schubert, who has served as the National Organization for Marriage's political director, aimed to unskew polls showing broad support for same-sex marriage in the country.
Schubert, during the panel at the Values Voter Summit on Saturday, first cited polling from 2012 from The Polling Company and Public Opinion Strategies showing support for continuing to define marriage as just between one man and one woman.
"You hear in the media that everybody's moving to support same-sex marriage. [That] it's just a tidal wave. This is not the case," Schubert (pictured) said.

...Schubert went on to say that the pollsters like Gallup that have shown broad support for same-sex marriage didn't accurately the public feeling for same-sex marriage. A May Gallup poll found that public support for laws recognizing same-sex marriage had jumped to 55 percent.
But Schubert said those polls were not accurately surveying their samples and also incorporated leading questions that swayed participants' responses...

...
"If you only ask adults, 18+ you're going to get the highest number of anyone asked. If you're going to get actual voters you're going to get least support. Second factor is question wording," Schubert said. "There's a phenomenon in polling that's called favorable response bias. What does that mean? It means people want to give you a favorable answer. They want to say 'yes.' They want to say yes, I agree, I am for it."...

..."When you give the favorable response to decide traditional marriage, guess what? The numbers reverse," Schubert said.

"If in fact the other side believed their rhetoric —that the game is changed, that people are now on their side, history is now at their door, don't you think that they would press votes to happen now?" Schubert.

 

[mdk]

Now I have seen everything. Lets trust an ex-leader of NOM and the members of The Values Voters Summit to unskew polls concerning gay marriage. Its not like those folks do not have an axe to grind or anything.

 

[Skylar]

At a panel on the future of marriage in the United States, Frank Schubert, who has served as the National Organization for Marriage's political director, aimed to unskew polls showing broad support for same-sex marriage in the country.

You do realize that the national organization of marriage is one of the fiercest and most zealotous anti-gay marriage organizations on the planet, right? So you're not dealing with an impartial party here. But soeone who, like yourself, is emotionally and politically invested in the anti-gay marriage effort.

Schubert, during the panel at the Values Voter Summit on Saturday, first cited polling from 2012 from The Polling Company and Public Opinion Strategies showing support for continuing to define marriage as just between one man and one woman.

Show us the polls from The Polling COmpany and Public Opinion Strategies showing support for continuing to define marriage as just between a man and a woman. And you do raelie that Public Opinion Strategies describes itself as a 'Republican Polling Firm', yes?

...Schubert went on to say that the pollsters like Gallup that have shown broad support for same-sex marriage didn't accurately the public feeling for same-sex marriage. A May Gallup poll found that public support for laws recognizing same-sex marriage had jumped to 55 percent.
But Schubert said those polls were not accurately surveying their samples and also incorporated leading questions that swayed participants' responses

And what evidence does Schubert have to back that claim? Especially when Gallup's polling results with dozens of other polls taken by a myriad of other agencies on the matter:

Civil Rights

Every single poll on Polling Report.com in the last 18 months to ask the question shows support for gay marriage by a margin of 12 to 19 points. They back the Gallup poll and contradict Schubert accusations. Accusations Schubert has no evidence to support.

Kinda like you.

 

[Derideo_Te]

September this year discussions were held on skewed gay marriage polling. And some of the "tricks of the trade"..

Panelists Seek To Unskew Polls Showing Support For Gay Marriage

At a panel on the future of marriage in the United States, Frank Schubert, who has served as the National Organization for Marriage's political director, aimed to unskew polls showing broad support for same-sex marriage in the country.
Schubert, during the panel at the Values Voter Summit on Saturday, first cited polling from 2012 from The Polling Company and Public Opinion Strategies showing support for continuing to define marriage as just between one man and one woman.
"You hear in the media that everybody's moving to support same-sex marriage. [That] it's just a tidal wave. This is not the case," Schubert (pictured) said.

...Schubert went on to say that the pollsters like Gallup that have shown broad support for same-sex marriage didn't accurately the public feeling for same-sex marriage. A May Gallup poll found that public support for laws recognizing same-sex marriage had jumped to 55 percent.
But Schubert said those polls were not accurately surveying their samples and also incorporated leading questions that swayed participants' responses...

...
"If you only ask adults, 18+ you're going to get the highest number of anyone asked. If you're going to get actual voters you're going to get least support. Second factor is question wording," Schubert said. "There's a phenomenon in polling that's called favorable response bias. What does that mean? It means people want to give you a favorable answer. They want to say 'yes.' They want to say yes, I agree, I am for it."...

..."When you give the favorable response to decide traditional marriage, guess what? The numbers reverse," Schubert said.

"If in fact the other side believed their rhetoric —that the game is changed, that people are now on their side, history is now at their door, don't you think that they would press votes to happen now?" Schubert.

Once again the OP wanders off into the extremist rightwing lalaland of homophobic bigotry for his own "validation". What he ignores is that these groups do not represent the majority of this nation. Instead they are the rabid fanatics who want to impose their personal religious beliefs so as to deny Americans their Constitutional right to equality under the law.