Conservative case against Iraq

M

Max Power

Guest
http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_1995.shtml

Members of the Bush administration have repeatedly told Americans that Iraq is becoming a free and democratic society, but that claim is proving to be false.

"Our mission in Iraq is clear," stated President Bush before a military audience at Fort Bragg during his nationally televised address on June 28. "We're hunting down the terrorists. We're helping Iraqis build a free nation that is an ally in the war on terror. We're advancing freedom in the broader Middle East. We are removing a source of violence and instability, and laying the foundation of peace for our children and our grandchildren."

"The work in Iraq is difficult and it is dangerous," continued Mr. Bush. "Like most Americans, I see the images of violence and bloodshed. Every picture is horrifying, and the suffering is real. Amid all this violence, I know Americans ask the question: Is the sacrifice worth it? It is worth it, and it is vital to the future security of our country."

Roughly two weeks after the president offered that assessment, Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari made a pilgrimage to Iran, where he laid a wreath at a shrine to the late, unlamented Ayatollah Khomeini, the revolutionary theocrat responsible for the abduction and imprisonment of U.S. citizens for 444 days in the late 1970s. Ibrahim al-Jaafari, a Shiite Muslim who lived in Iranian exile during the 1980s, heads the radical Islamic Dawa Party, which is closely aligned to the Iranian regime. Iran, recall, was famously described by Mr. Bush as a key player in an "axis of evil."

The Dawa Party's spiritual leader is Iranian-born Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, a near twin of Khomeini in both appearance and ideology. Prior to being named prime minister last April, al-Jaafari told the German magazine Der Speigel that "Iraq should become an Islamic state." Asked if his government would institute harsh Islamic Shari'a law, al-Jaafari replied: "Yes … that is only natural in a country that is populated mainly by Muslims."

During his visit to Iran, al-Jaafari signed several bilateral accords. One accord was a military alliance wherein Iran will provide arms to Iraq; Iran will provide border security between the two countries; and the two countries will share intelligence. "This is a new chapter in relations with Iraq," enthused Iranian Vice President Mohammad Reza Aref during al-Jaafari's visit. Agha Panayi, an Iranian intelligence official, has offered a similarly enthusiastic assessment: "Throughout Iraq, the people we supported are in power."

"The Islamic Republic of Iran, Iraq's next-door neighbor, has benefited in every way from President George W. Bush's decision to overthrow Saddam Hussein," observes BBC News Baghdad correspondent John Simpson. "It's probably the best thing that has happened to Iran since the Islamic Revolution there in 1979."

Roughly 1,800 American military personnel have died to date in Iraq. Thousands of others have been wounded, many of them left invalids. Tens of thousands of Iraqis, including countless innocent civilians, have been killed. And in exchange we see that Iraq, rather than becoming a free, pro-Western society, is falling into the hands of a radical Muslim government aligned with Iran, a terrorist state hostile to the United States.

"Worth it"? To Iran, obviously. Americans who have lost loved ones in Iraq will likely differ with the president's accounting.

Elevating Terrorists to Power

There's much more to the article, but as per the board's policy, I'm not posting it. Please read the whole thing before posting replies.

:splat:
 
Kathianne said:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/artma...icle_1995.shtml

Hey Max, you forgot the endorsement of the John Birch Society. Thought everyone would want to know...(I don't know why I'm helping you here, I think you and they are bigots.)

(Ad hominem argument tactic. Instead of arguing the material, attack the source).



Why do you think I'm a bigot? What could I possibly have said that led you to that conclusion?
 
GunnyL said:
Is that the word for blind, partisan nimrods? :)
Call me a liberal! If this is what some mean about 'conservative', count me out! (Though with PR lately, you have to read deeper. This is Matt Hale, but a 'kinder, gentler' Matt Hale).

'http://www.jbs.org/about/

Purpose

G. Vance Smith
President & CEO

Less Government, More Responsibility, And – With God’s Help – A Better World
Mission Statement

The mission of The John Birch Society is to build a national network of chapters and members to restore the values and principles found in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution of the United States, which protect our God-given rights. Guided by the vision of America's Founding Fathers and of Robert Welch, the Society's Founder, the Society provides Americans with the educational materials, programs, campaigns, and essential organizational leadership to restore our constitutional Republic and defeat the organized efforts of those seeking to destroy it.
About The John Birch Society

Ever since its founding in 1958 by Robert Welch, The John Birch Society has been fully dedicated to restoring and preserving freedom under the United States Constitution. Members come from all walks of life and are active throughout the 50 states as part of local chapters.

United by a sense of duty and a strong belief in personal freedom and limited government, members of The John Birch Society have educated millions of Americans on the proper role of government. By using educational and publicity tools, members have played a pivotal role in halting dangerous legislation and federal policies which threaten America’s independence.

More than just joining a "letterhead" institution or a study group, members inform themselves and others, and then work together to bring about change in national policy where it is needed.

Members are organized into a national network of local chapters that meet regularly, initiate local projects, and implement the program outlined in the monthly Bulletin.

Activity at the local level is guided and stimulated by professional field Coordinators who supply the benefit of their knowledge and experience to members all across the nation.

We invite all Americans to explore our website, learn more about The John Birch Society, and consider joining with us in our mission to achieve: "Less Government, More Responsibility, and – With God’s Help – a Better World."

About Membership

Information on membership in The John Birch Society. Includes link to membership application.
JBS History

The John Birch Resolutions
Jan 1, 2005
Article written by the founder of The John Birch Society, Robert Welch, in 1970. Gives general principles of living to help bring about "a better world."

An Invitation to Liberty
Dec 22, 2004
For over 40 years the John Birch Society has been fighting for America's freedom

The John Birch Society: Forty Years for Freedom
Dec 22, 2004
A complete look at the history of The John Birch Society since its founding in 1958.

Leading America to Victory
Dec 22, 2004
With sound leadership, effective plans, and God's help, The John Birch Society offers concerned citizens the means to preserve America and her heritage of freedom.

The JBS: Alive, Well, and Growing
Dec 22, 2004
The leader of the Americanist cause for over 40 years, The John Birch Society continues to work successfully for less government, more responsibility, and a better world.


Unwarranted Attacks on The John Birch Society

Ballot Box Smear
Sep 20, 2004
Leftist political activists in California have adopted a new attack vehicle to smear patriots under the banner of protected political “free speech.”

Depravity on the Loose
Jun 16, 2004
George Schuyler, writer for American Opinion, laments over the rapid moral and ethical degradation of our country.

Jesse Jackson: “Problem Profiteer”
Aug 14, 2000
For more than three decades, Jackson played an important part in one of the Establishment's most successful strategies: The creation of conflict as a pretext for a tyrannical "solution."

I Am Alive, No Thanks to Gun Control
Jul 17, 2000
The traumatic experience of being shot by neo-Nazi Benjamin Smith brought Mr. Goldstein a crystal clear understanding that "civilian disarmament empowers not only relatively small-time murderers such as Smith..., but also paves the way for major-league mass murderers, such as Adolf Hitler."

A Victory Against Hate
Jun 19, 2000
The Jewish Anti-Defamation League's power and prosperity depend upon an increase in anti-Jewish feelings among Americans, thus it has no scruples about both committing and provoking acts of religious bigotry.
 
Come on now, Kathianne... why am I a bigot?
 
Max Power said:
(Ad hominem argument tactic. Instead of arguing the material, attack the source).



Why do you think I'm a bigot? What could I possibly have said that led you to that conclusion?


Your link? D'oh! You chose it, not I.
 
Max Power said:
A little more specific, please.

What about is so bigoted?

I already posted about JBS. Read it. You probably can't see the problem. Point made.
 
Kathianne said:
I already posted about JBS. Read it. You probably can't see the problem. Point made.

So, according to you, since the John Birch Society endorses something, that makes it bigoted?

Does that mean that anyone who appreciates Beethoven is a Nazi because Hitler liked him?
 
Max Power said:
So, according to you, since the John Birch Society endorses something, that makes it bigoted?

Does that mean that anyone who appreciates Beethoven is a Nazi because Hitler liked him?

Not playing your weird games. You seem to have nothing of substance, regardless of topic. Unlike the normal signoff, I'll just say, "I'll be here tomorrow, don't bother me, unless you find some gravitas."

Good night.
 
Kathianne said:
Hey Max, you forgot the endorsement of the John Birch Society. Thought everyone would want to know...(I don't know why I'm helping you here, I think you and they are bigots.)


http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9153

Moderators are not allowed to flame members
I expect the moderators to be held to a different standard than the rest of the board


You're in breach of the board rules, Kathianne.
 
Max Power said:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9153

Moderators are not allowed to flame members
I expect the moderators to be held to a different standard than the rest of the board


You're in breach of the board rules, Kathianne.

For one to possess such a sharp tongue, you seem to be quite sensitive. I don't see a flame. Typical liberal ..... trying to make something of nothing to support one of your fantasy accusations. Bet you think Bush is behind 9/11, don't you?

Dipstick.
 
Anyway, back on topic, so none of you have anything to say about Iraq turning into an Islamic fundamentalist state that will most likely buddy up with Iran and be worse for us than Saddam was?

I mean, we keep hearing that it's now a "free Iraq," but is it?

For example
Article 8 says that women have "equality with men in all fields" but only when it doesn't disturb "the provisions of the Islamic shari'a."

So, will women be forced to wear full Islamic garb, and if so, will they still be considered free?
 
Max Power said:
Anyway, back on topic, so none of you have anything to say about Iraq turning into an Islamic fundamentalist state that will most likely buddy up with Iran and be worse for us than Saddam was?

I mean, we keep hearing that it's now a "free Iraq," but is it?

For example


So, will women be forced to wear full Islamic garb, and if so, will they still be considered free?

The same article, as I am sick of pointing out, MANDATES that 25% of council seats go to women. Does THAT sound like Sharia to you? Get a life. I know it must have been heartbreaking for you to not see a bunch of people get blown up on election day, but for once in any of you liberals' miserable existance, would it frickn kill you to be happy for someone?

And some judge of freedom you are. You probly don't think the US is free, what with Chimpy McBushitler and his stolen elections. So the forces of tyranny have been dealt another blow. You still have Castro, Chavez, and Kim Jong Il to cheer for.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: leftists do not want freedom, they want everybody to be equal in misery.
 
theim said:
The same article, as I am sick of pointing out, MANDATES that 25% of council seats go to women. Does THAT sound like Sharia to you? Get a life. I know it must have been heartbreaking for you to not see a bunch of people get blown up on election day, but for once in any of you liberals' miserable existance, would it frickn kill you to be happy for someone?

And some judge of freedom you are. You probly don't think the US is free, what with Chimpy McBushitler and his stolen elections. So the forces of tyranny have been dealt another blow. You still have Castro, Chavez, and Kim Jong Il to cheer for.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: leftists do not want freedom, they want everybody to be equal in misery.

Nice. I tried to rep ya', but it appears I am once again in gridlock. I don't spread it around enough.
 

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