Conservatism 101

[Iceweasel]

How about we just use the dictionary, instead of twisting the definition of words to fit our shitty arguments?

The problem is that liberals do not fit the dictionary term. At all. Liberals lie about who and what they are. They manipulate language to move the goal posts.

yeah because the liberal jews own the dictionary... I forgot

Jews? Liberals do not fit the definition. They (you) are highly intolerant of differing points of view, for example. Disagree with a liberal and you are evil.

so who changed the dictionary to hurt the white man? was it the muslims?

I don't live in your hatebubble so don't know what you are talking about.

 

[yiostheoy]

or... Conservatism For Dummies. (take your pick)

I decided it's time for a little education on what Conservatism is. We seem to have lost the meaning in all the hype and hyperbole of the left as well as some of the so-called alt-right. Many people are unclear on what it means to be a Conservative because the PR department of Conservatism has been woefully lacking the past several decades in America. Therefore, Conservatism has been loosely defined by various individuals in ways that may or may not be completely accurate. This thread is intended to straighten out some misconceptions and misnomers on the subject.

First and foremost, Conservatism is not an ideology, it is a philosophy. Under the philosophy of Conservatism a great many ideologies tend to flourish. We will attempt to go through the most prevalent ones but for now, understand that Conservatism defined any other way than a philosophy is incorrect rhetoric. This is an intentional slight perpetrated by leftist ideologues for the most part. They find it difficult to compete with Conservatism on a philosophical basis so they attempt to adorn it with all sorts of false pretense in order to juxtapose their preferred ideology against a less desirable one. Just remember, any time someone attempts to tell you what Conservatives believe or don't believe, they are not being honest. A Conservative can believe or disbelieve a host of things.

To illustrate this point, the libertarian ideologue can identify as a Conservative as well as the evangelical Social Conservative, yet they believe in completely different ideologies. You can have neo-conservative ideologues who believe in interventionist policies and isolationist conservatives who believe in the polar opposite. You often hear people say they are socially liberal but fiscally conservative. So we can see the philosophy of Conservatism takes many forms. But what IS a Conservative then?

To put this in the simplest perspective, Conservatism is the alternative moderate philosophy to radical extremism. A radical extremist philosophy is more consistent with the ideologies of Progressivism and Liberalism. These ideologies depend on radical/extremist philosophy in order to successfully push against the authority, to rebel against the status quo. Conservative philosophy is more pragmatic and measured, steeped in reason and historical experience. Conservatives typically adhere to a more measured approach to problem solving, where things are done in slight degrees rather than radically changed. This is because we've learned that small changes are adapted best and radical changes generally come with unintended and often undesirable consequences. For a society where there are many disparate groups and viewpoints, small changes are best. Whenever an idea does produce unintended consequences, it is far easier to deal with when the approach has been moderate rather than radical. Look at the health care debacle for a classic example of this in practice.

... Rant.

Try this again with just a few short sentences ... for example:

American Conservatism is (1) more tax cuts for the rich; (2) more oil drilling everywhere; (3) less environmental protection and cleanup; (4) pro-business; (5) elimination of Social Security, Medicare, and ACA; (6) more payroll taxes for the working poor and middle classes; (7) more wasteful defense spending; (8) more bombing of weaker countries around the world; etc.

 

[Boss]

Conservatism and liberalism are simply examples of ideologies. Religion would be another.

Well, no... they're not and the OP explains that. Religion would be an example of an ideology but not Conservatism. We're discussing Conservatism here, not Religion.

I disagree with the OP, which is not fact, but opinion.

The behaviors of conservatives and liberals are so similar, their adherence to their ideologies so consistent and predictable, that they are simply opposite sides of the same coin in many respects.

We can pretend that conservatism is not an ideology, sure. We can pretend that liberalism isn't, too. But that's just semantics, trying to raise one above the other.
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I disagree with the OP, which is not fact, but opinion.

Well then, what you need to do is challenge the parts you think are not factual with actual evidence to prove your point or you're simply giving us your baseless (and worthless) opinion.

We can pretend that conservatism is not an ideology, sure.

Or we can be honest and go by the definitions.

 

[PurpleOwl]

so who changed the dictionary to hurt the white man? was it the muslims?

How about shutting up and addressing post #8 where I presented the definition?

You see my dear, republicans use the term conservative to describe everything good and liberal to describe everything bad. Its a part of their brainwashing. Therefore every policy and/or politician they support is conservative, every policy and/or politician they dont like, becomes a liberal. So when you describe Obama as a conservative or the 2nd amendment, or the right to bear arms as a liberal gun policy, their pavlovian signals misfire and it creates a state of cognitive dissonance causing them to became apprehensive and actively avoid the source of this conflict. Sometimes creating an actual physical response such as pain, loss of hearing, short term memory, a schizophrenic break from reality, temporary and in some cases permanent OCD, and akinetic mutism.

How's that for an answer?

 

[Iceweasel]

Conservatism and liberalism are simply examples of ideologies. Religion would be another.

Well, no... they're not and the OP explains that. Religion would be an example of an ideology but not Conservatism. We're discussing Conservatism here, not Religion.

I disagree with the OP, which is not fact, but opinion.

The behaviors of conservatives and liberals are so similar, their adherence to their ideologies so consistent and predictable, that they are simply opposite sides of the same coin in many respects.

We can pretend that conservatism is not an ideology, sure. We can pretend that liberalism isn't, too. But that's just semantics, trying to raise one above the other.
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Wow. You missed by a mile. No, conservatives are not the ones pushing for more and more government. More regulations. Higher taxes. More redistribution. More control over who we can do business with. Gay marriage. Transgenders in the bathroom. Every issue I can think of. How you you be that misinformed after being here for so long? You've learned nothing.

 

[yiostheoy]

Conservatism and liberalism are simply examples of ideologies. Religion would be another.

Well, no... they're not and the OP explains that. Religion would be an example of an ideology but not Conservatism. We're discussing Conservatism here, not Religion.

I disagree with the OP, which is not fact, but opinion.

The behaviors of conservatives and liberals are so similar, their adherence to their ideologies so consistent and predictable, that they are simply opposite sides of the same coin in many respects.

We can pretend that conservatism is not an ideology, sure. We can pretend that liberalism isn't, too. But that's just semantics, trying to raise one above the other.
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Now we need a definition of "liberalism".

American liberalism is (1) more money spent on Negroes; (2) more Mexicans let into the USA; (3) more mooseleems let into the USA; (4) pacifism; (5) more jobs shipped to China and Germany; (6) gun control for people who don't commit crimes; (7) more tax hikes on the rich to make up for the Reagan and "W" Bush tax cuts for them; (8) amend not repeal ACA; (9) environmental protection and cleanup; (10) carbon tax; etc.

 

[yiostheoy]

so who changed the dictionary to hurt the white man? was it the muslims?

How about shutting up and addressing post #8 where I presented the definition?

You see my dear, republicans use the term conservative to describe everything good and liberal to describe everything bad. Its a part of their brainwashing. Therefore every policy and/or politician they support is conservative, every policy and/or politician they dont like, becomes a liberal. So when you describe Obama as a conservative or the 2nd amendment, or the right to bear arms as a liberal gun policy, their pavlovian signals misfire and it creates a state of cognitive dissonance causing them to became to become apprehensive and actively avoid the source of this conflict. Sometimes creating an actual physical response such as pain, loss of hearing, short term memory, a schizophrenic break from reality, temporary and in some cases permanent OCD, and akinetic mutism.

How's that for an answer?

Ok now we need a modern definition of Republicans.

The shortest one I can think of is "Fascists".

 

[Iceweasel]

so who changed the dictionary to hurt the white man? was it the muslims?

How about shutting up and addressing post #8 where I presented the definition?

You see my dear, republicans use the term conservative to describe everything good and liberal to describe everything bad. Its a part of their brainwashing. Therefore every policy and/or politician they support is conservative, every policy and/or politician they dont like, becomes a liberal. So when you describe Obama as a conservative or the 2nd amendment, or the right to bear arms as a liberal gun policy, their pavlovian signals misfire and it creates a state of cognitive dissonance causing them to became to become apprehensive and actively avoid the source of this conflict. Sometimes creating an actual physical response such as pain, loss of hearing, short term memory, a schizophrenic break from reality, temporary and in some cases permanent OCD, and akinetic mutism.

How's that for an answer?

"You see my dear, republicans use the term conservative to describe everything good and liberal to describe everything bad."

That's exactly what liberals do in reverse. If you don't want to redefine marriage to include like genders then you are bad. Pick an issue, same thing.

 

[yiostheoy]

so who changed the dictionary to hurt the white man? was it the muslims?

How about shutting up and addressing post #8 where I presented the definition?

Are you happy now dumbazz ?!

 

[PurpleOwl]

so who changed the dictionary to hurt the white man? was it the muslims?

How about shutting up and addressing post #8 where I presented the definition?

You see my dear, republicans use the term conservative to describe everything good and liberal to describe everything bad. Its a part of their brainwashing. Therefore every policy and/or politician they support is conservative, every policy and/or politician they dont like, becomes a liberal. So when you describe Obama as a conservative or the 2nd amendment, or the right to bear arms as a liberal gun policy, their pavlovian signals misfire and it creates a state of cognitive dissonance causing them to became to become apprehensive and actively avoid the source of this conflict. Sometimes creating an actual physical response such as pain, loss of hearing, short term memory, a schizophrenic break from reality, temporary and in some cases permanent OCD, and akinetic mutism.

How's that for an answer?

"You see my dear, republicans use the term conservative to describe everything good and liberal to describe everything bad."

That's exactly what liberals do in reverse. If you don't want to redefine marriage to include like genders then you are bad. Pick an issue, same thing.

yes reverse....just like reverse racism... everything's reversed shhhh its okay

 

[Iceweasel]

Ok now we need a modern definition of Republicans.

The shortest one I can think of is "Fascists".

Fascists want less regs and smaller government, lower taxes? You're full of shit.

 

[yiostheoy]

How about we just use the dictionary, instead of twisting the definition of words to fit our shitty arguments?

conservatism
Etymology
From Latin conservare ‎(“to conserve; to keep, guard, observe”).
Noun
conservatism ‎(plural conservatisms)A political philosophy that advocates traditional values.

1. A risk-averse attitude or approach.

As you see, today's Conservatism has nothing to do with what you find in dictionaries. "Conservative" was a pejorative applied to small-govt advocates by big-govt pushers a long time ago, to pretend they were something they weren't. Back when govt was mostly small and its advocates wanted it to stay small, the big-govt pushers tried to pretend they wanted that because they were somehow "afraid of change". When in fact they simply realized that small govt was better, and they wanted what was best.

If prevailing govt had been big and overcontrolling, they would have wanted major, radical change, to a small, limited govt. They wouldn't have wanted to "conserve" anything. Note that this is the situation today. Liberals want govt to stay huge and overbearing, while conservatives want major changes from what it is now.

It's a typical liberal tactic, to keep telling a lie over and over until it became so common it made its way into dictionaries... and then insist we go by the dictionary.

Even before that dictionary definition, it meant those in the French parliament who supported the king.

Versus those (liberals) who wanted more rights for the people.

Today in the USA in the 21st Century those definitions have practically become reversed.

 

[Boss]

... Rant.

Try this again with just a few short sentences ... for example:

American Conservatism is (1) more tax cuts for the rich; (2) more oil drilling everywhere; (3) less environmental protection and cleanup; (4) pro-business; (5) elimination of Social Security, Medicare, and ACA; (6) more payroll taxes for the working poor and middle classes; (7) more wasteful defense spending; (8) more bombing of weaker countries around the world; etc.

No. These are ALL policy positions and have nothing to do with Conservative philosophy. It's a perfect example of how left wing ideologues have distorted the perspective and promoted the rhetoric of Conservatism as this "Frankenstein Ideology" they juxtapose their radical left-wing ideology against.

You see, what you are doing is promoting your own ideological agenda against a false backdrop because you can't make the case for your agenda otherwise. You need a bad guy so you can be the good guy.

I am a Conservative and I believe we need to drill for domestic oil so that we can become energy independent. I am a conservationist who believes in clean air and water but I don't believe the EPA should be used as a gestapo force against business to promote a sham global warming agenda from the leftist ideologues. I am proudly pro-business... a free market capitalist, not a crony corporatist like Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. Social Security and Medicare are going broke and need to be reformed so that we have those programs for future generations. ACA has to be scrapped because it's a total debacle that didn't do anything it promised. I favor a consumption tax and eliminating income and payroll taxes entirely, as well as giving poor and working families a monthly stipend for taxes on basic needs. I don't favor wasteful defense spending or military intervention unless national security is at risk. BUT MOST OF ALL... My Conservative philosophy allows me to look at all aspects of a problem and proposed solutions to come to agreement on what is best for the largest number of people. You, on the other hand, want to force a radical agenda down my throat against my will because you're an ideologue.

 

[Boss]

so who changed the dictionary to hurt the white man? was it the muslims?

How about shutting up and addressing post #8 where I presented the definition?

You see my dear, republicans use the term conservative to describe everything good and liberal to describe everything bad. Its a part of their brainwashing. Therefore every policy and/or politician they support is conservative, every policy and/or politician they dont like, becomes a liberal. So when you describe Obama as a conservative or the 2nd amendment, or the right to bear arms as a liberal gun policy, their pavlovian signals misfire and it creates a state of cognitive dissonance causing them to became apprehensive and actively avoid the source of this conflict. Sometimes creating an actual physical response such as pain, loss of hearing, short term memory, a schizophrenic break from reality, temporary and in some cases permanent OCD, and akinetic mutism.

How's that for an answer?

Again, you are describing ideologues and running away from the dictionary definition of Conservative that you said you wanted to use. Republicans are not all Conservatives. I'm not here to argue what some republicans do or don't do... that's another argument altogether.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Conservatism is the idea that government shouldn't do much beyond basic protection of our rights... and that those right do NOT include health care, employment, regulating our toilets and light bulbs, or even forcing people into a "safety net". When someone attacks us or threatens to, government becomes much bigger to defend us from them. But aside from that, government should be relatively small, and stay that way.

National defense, foreign relations, setting standards, coining money, running nationwide courts, and other such functions are what the Federal government should confine itself to. Basically, things that protect our fundamental rights, are vital to our wellbeing, and that CANNOT be carried out by states or lower government.

Modern liberals will point to someone who's having a tough time, can't provide food for his family, can't pay a medical bill etc., and somehow jump to the conclusion that our central government should be the one helping him (actually forcing other taxpayers to help him). They are wrong, of course. Since the only things government is capable of, is punishing and restricting its citizens, it should do as little as possible, and leave "The states and the people" to take care of the rest (also known as "living their lives"), either individually or by forming groups (companies, charities etc.) to do things.

 

[Boss]

Conservatism is the idea that government shouldn't do much beyond basic protection of our rights... and that those right do NOT include health care, employment, regulating our toilets and light bulbs, or even forcing people into a "safety net". When someone attacks us or threatens to, government becomes much bigger to defend us from them. But aside from that, government should be relatively small, and stay that way.

National defense, foreign relations, setting standards, coining money, running nationwide courts, and other such functions are what the Federal government should confine itself to. Basically, things that protect our fundamental rights, are vital to our wellbeing, and that CANNOT be carried out by states or lower government.

Modern liberals will point to someone who's having a tough time, can't provide food for his family, can't pay a medical bill etc., and somehow jump to the conclusion that our central government should be the one helping him (actually forcing other taxpayers to help him). They are wrong, of course. Since the only things government is capable of, is punishing and restricting its citizens, it should do as little as possible, and leave "The states and the people" to take care of the rest (also known as "living their lives"), either individually or by forming groups (companies, charities etc.) to do things.

You are starting off by trying to define Conservatism as "the idea that..." which is totally incorrect. Ideas are the result of ideology... that's where the word comes from. And ideology is a set of specific ideas. Conservatism is not an ideology so this doesn't apply. It is a philosophy which over-arches numerous ideologies.

It is the Left who needs Conservatism to be a competing ideology. And really, all radical extremists must paint Conservatism as an ideology to compare their ideology against. Sometimes this comes from the Establishment types, the Alt-Right Nationalist-Populists, Liberals and Progressives. So Conservatism itself is being co-opted as this false ideology that doesn't really exist.

What you appear to be describing is a Constitutionalist, which are almost always Conservative. However, there are many Conservatives who are not Constitutionalist.

 

[Little-Acorn]

You never did get around to saying what conservatives believe, only that they thought we should make small changes instead of big ones.

Nope. I told you that whenever someone tells you what a Conservative believes or doesn't believe, they are not being honest.

Why am I not surprised that you provide no evidence or backing to support this accusation?

Conservatives cannot be confined to a particular ideological perspective and that was my entire point.

As it was mine. They simply believe in freedom from overbearing government, as much as possible.

Perhaps you have been fooled into thinking that people who do NOT believe in this, are somehow "conservative" anyway, when they aren't.

 

[Boss]

You never did get around to saying what conservatives believe, only that they thought we should make small changes instead of big ones.

Nope. I told you that whenever someone tells you what a Conservative believes or doesn't believe, they are not being honest.

Why am I not surprised that you provide no evidence or backing to support this accusation?

It's not an accusation, it's the truth. I don't need evidence or backing to support a truth, it's self-evident. Now, I will preface my comment with this... SOME people who try to define what a Conservative believes are NOT being intentionally dishonest, they're just being misinformed.

Conservatives cannot be confined to a particular ideological perspective and that was my entire point.

As it was mine. They simply believe in freedom from overbearing government, as much as possible.

Perhaps you have been fooled into thinking that people who do NOT believe in this, are somehow "conservative" anyway, when they aren't.

You began your comment with "Conservatism is the idea that..." and proceeded to explain an ideology. Indeed, most people who believe in freedom from overbearing government are Conservatives... I don't know any who aren't but I try not to generalize. However, this does not define Conservatism unless Conservatism is an ideology. It's my argument that it's not. There are Conservatives who have no problem with big government.

Again, Conservatism is a philosophy which is the opposite or moderate philosophy to radical extremism. MANY ideologies can find a home in Conservative philosophy. This is what makes it so difficult to pin Conservatism down to a specific set of values and principles. It's also how the Left has been so successful in demonizing Conservatism.

 

[yiostheoy]

Conservatism is the idea that government shouldn't do much beyond basic protection of our rights... and that those right do NOT include health care, employment, regulating our toilets and light bulbs, or even forcing people into a "safety net". When someone attacks us or threatens to, government becomes much bigger to defend us from them. But aside from that, government should be relatively small, and stay that way.

National defense, foreign relations, setting standards, coining money, running nationwide courts, and other such functions are what the Federal government should confine itself to. Basically, things that protect our fundamental rights, are vital to our wellbeing, and that CANNOT be carried out by states or lower government.

Modern liberals will point to someone who's having a tough time, can't provide food for his family, can't pay a medical bill etc., and somehow jump to the conclusion that our central government should be the one helping him (actually forcing other taxpayers to help him). They are wrong, of course. Since the only things government is capable of, is punishing and restricting its citizens, it should do as little as possible, and leave "The states and the people" to take care of the rest (also known as "living their lives"), either individually or by forming groups (companies, charities etc.) to do things.

Does it include capital gains tax cuts for the rich too?

What about Romney's 14% overall tax on $20 million of annual income ??

Does it include that too ??