Common sense gun regulations--need to be passed now.

[Harpy Eagle]

So nothing about the root cause?



Like single mothers, violence on television, movies, video games, in music.....

What would you like to do about single mothers, and violence on TV and movie and video games.

Do you side with Al and Tipper Gore and want the Govt to step in and take control?

Should only married people be allowed to have children and anyone not married found to be pregnant gets a forced abortion?

Under our system of government it's a certainty that You cannot legislate morality or values, nor can you cure societal decadence via fiat, the best you can do is regulate behavior around the margins and that won't solve the ROOT causes here.

The poster you are responding to is right on target regarding root causes and there are no easy fixes, especially in an environment of decaying institutions, amoral leaders and a widespread glorification of violence; the only thing that's clear is that IF those problems are going to be solved it can only be accomplished with leadership capable of persuading the public that the solutions are worth the personal sacrifices that it will take to achieve them and that leadership has to be able to serve a role model for the objective .

Augustus was able to resolve similar challenges during the early days of Empire, some of it was done by fiat but mostly he did it because he persuaded the people that the objective was worthwhile and thus pulled them together to overcome the decadence and disunity that had been largely responsible for the death of the Republic. Whether or not the United States is even capable of achieving the same type of cultural renaissance is an open question but given the current state of affairs I find the possibility highly dubious.

I share your skepticism of the US being able to do that. We are too divided down party lines so that if one side has a good idea the other side will automatically reject it no matter what. My son is still in High School and he is very politically active, as far as a 15 year old can be, as are his friends. Talking with them I have more hope for the future, but I am not sure if they are outliers or the norm.

The eternal optimist in me would say that "Where there is enlightened youth there is hope" so one hopes that your 15-year old is more the "norm" and not an "outlier"..

Of course then the realist jumps up to remind me that "Those that fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it", which leads me to the conclusion that we, like those that came before us, are in the process of killing off our Republic, what comes after that is anybody's guess but many of the likely scenarios are not pleasant.

We need an Augustus, yet all we have are a bunch of clowns-R & D singularly engaged in bickering over which side gets to loot the larger share of what remains.

The problem is that an Augustus could never make it through the primary process.

 

[BlackSand]

Whatever makes you happy!

Pfft ... You don't honestly approve of what makes me happy.
And you can just add that comment to the ever-growing list of your misconstrued nonsense.


.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Whatever makes you happy!

Pfft ... You don't honestly approve of what makes me happy.
And you can just add that comment to the ever-growing list of your misconstrued nonsense.


.

Someone is a little grumpy today. Do you need a little time out in a safe space to draw some unicorns and rainbows?

 

[Taz]

Limit gun ownership to what the Founding Fathers intended, muskets. Problem solved.

 

[BlackSand]

...
We need an Augustus, yet all we have are a bunch of clowns-R & D singularly engaged in bickering over which side gets to loot the larger share of what remains.

Yeah ... But the problem does not exist in leadership.
It exists in the basic concept the People have decided to empower the federal government to an extent that their political bickering actually influences what it shouldn't.

.

 

[BlackSand]

Limit gun ownership to what the Founding Fathers intended, muskets. Problem solved.

The Founding Fathers didn't indicate limits ... They specifically indicated "shall not be infringed".

.

 

[Taz]

Limit gun ownership to what the Founding Fathers intended, muskets. Problem solved.

The Founding Fathers didn't indicate limits ... They specifically indicated "shall not be infringed".

.

You've infringed on the muskets. Please try again soon.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Hitler! That's what you are! Gun confiscating Nazi!

In to Godwin your crappy thread up!

 

[BlackSand]

Someone is a little grumpy today. Do you need a little time out in a safe space to draw some unicorns and rainbows?

I can see where your misconceptions about my mood or desires dovetail nicely with the rest of your nonsense ...

.

 

[BlackSand]

You've infringed on the muskets. Please try again soon.

The Constitution doesn't say anything about muskets ...
You are the person trying ... Trying to make stuff up.

.

 

[Desperado]

OK--so this year we have 18 school shootings, and it's not even March yet.

Absolute BS, More lib propaganda

Washington Post: No, There Haven’t Been 18 School Shootings So Far This Year
Washington Post: No, there haven't been 18 school shootings so far this year

 

[Taz]

You've infringed on the muskets. Please try again soon.

The Constitution doesn't say anything about muskets ...
You are the person trying ... Trying to make stuff up.

.

Doesn't say anything about owning an AR-15 either. Are you trying to make stuff up?

 

[usmbguest5318]

OK--so this year we have 18 school shootings, and it's not even March yet. Yesterday in Florida 15 young people with their entire lives in front of them, along with 2 school teachers trying to protect them were massacred. Then we have Las Vegas. Then a church in Texas were generations of family members were wiped out. We have a movie theatre in Aurora Colorado, then San Diego were a straw buyer purchased semi-automatics for a slaugther there, and Orlando, Florida another one. And Sandy Hook where 5 to 7 year olds were slaughtered.

People have called for better gun regulations in this country and it has continually fallen on deaf ears. Republicans are owned by the NRA and right wing gun extremists.

Here are my suggestions.
1. Ban semi-automatic weapons and 30 round gun clips.
2. People with existing semi-automatics & ammo be required to keep them in a locked secure gun case, and required to maintain an insurance liability policy on that weapon in order to keep them.
3. Parents of children & teenagers are required to keep all of their guns & ammo in locked secure gun safes, inaccessible at all times to their kids.
4. No private sales. If someone wants to sell their gun, it has to be dropped off at a licensed gun dealer for resale so a background check can be done.
5. Background checks including extended mental health checks before any purchase of a gun is made.
6. Straw buyers of guns, those who buy guns for others, be under the same prosecutable standards as those that pull the trigger.
7. Those that are on a no fly list, or FBI terrorist watch list not be able to purchase any guns or ammo.

If these simple regulations were in place--there would have never been a Las Vegas, a Sandy Hook, a Columbine massacre, a church in Texas, San Diego slaughter, Orlando, Florida massacre, a Virginia Tech etc. etc. etc., and 15 young kids and 2 teachers that were killed yesterday would be here today.

You won't convince Republicans to do any of this. They are OWNED by the NRA, and right wing gun extremists, and will fight (tooth & nail) on any new gun regulations. They are more interested in the donations they get from the NRA than keeping the public and our schools safe.

If you're tired of all the condolences & sympathies, then do something about it. Vote for Democrats in the midterm election cycle this coming November for common sense gun regulations.

Question: if you were to get all the legislation passed and signed into law that you are asking for here, what are you going to want after the next mass shooting happens?

The OP-er can answer for him-/herself. My answer to that question is as follows:

1. Nobody who matters and who advocates for measures such as the OP-er has thinks they will stop all mass shootings.
   • To assert or imply that absolute prevention of mass shootings and other unlawful gun-related deaths and injuries be the goal of gun-control advocates is to misrepresent what gun-control advocates (the ones who matter and who are sagacious about what they propose) propose.
2. The goal of such measures as the OP-er has suggested is to notably curtail the incidence of mass shootings and other gun-caused deaths and injuries.
3. Because curtailment, not cessation, is the goal, in the immediate wake of the next mass shooting there'd be nothing to do beyond continuing to vigorously enforce the suggested policies.
4. Two and four years after full implementation -- i.e., enactment completed, requisite staffing effected and deployed, requisite materials obtained and deployed -- measure the effectiveness of the newly implemented provisions.
   • If mass shootings at the two and four year marks indicate the incidence of mass shootings and, most importantly, the number of people killed by mass shooters is notably [1] lower than whatever be the mass shooting rate of increase or rate of decrease -- whichever was the prevailing trend at the most recent trend vertex prior to the provisions' full implementation [2] -- then it stands to reason that the provisions are doing what they are supposed to be doing, i.e., effective.
   • Obviously, the methodology for measuring the initiatives'/legislation's/regulations' effectiveness must be defined/designed and agreed upon prior to implementation. To not do so will almost certainly lead to a ton of "who struck John" when the time comes to measure the policies' performance.

Notes:

1. What does "notable" mean as I've used it? It means the observed changes are statistically significant. Click this sentence's link if you don't understand the methods, math, mechanics and aptness of methodology for calculating statistical significance, and want to. The link in this note's first sentence goes to a narrative description of statistical significance. (And don't reply to me talking about "statistics can be made to say anything" for doing so will merely inform me you don't know what you're talking about and I won't make time to respond to you.)
2. Trend vertices -- Human behavior is not linear; there are often "peaks and valleys," as with a sine wave, in the curves that describe incidences of events humans undertake. Thus, for example, if the mass shooting curve at the time of implementation is on an upswing, one would want to see the slope of the upswing "flatten" or "flip." Whether a "flattening" or "flip," or the extent of either, is notable depends on the steepness of the curve at the start of the attenuation initiative. To wit:
   • If the mass shooting curve is trending down during the pre-implementation baseline period:
     • a "flip" would indicate the initiative isn't working because it'd mean the rate of mass shootings is increasing, which is the very opposite of the desired outcome.
     • a "flattening" might or might not be indicative of the initiative(s) working
     • a "steepening" probably indicates the initiative is working, but whether it does or doesn't would depend on whether the "steeping" is statistically significant.
   • If the mass shooting curve is trending up during the pre-implementation baseline period:
     • a "flip" probably indicates the initiative is working, but whether it is or isn't would depend on whether the "flip" is statistically significant.
     • a "flattening" might or might not be indicative of the initiative(s) working
     • a "steepening" would indicate the initiative isn't working because it'd mean the rate of mass shootings is increasing, which is the very opposite of the desired outcome.

 

[BlackSand]

Doesn't say anything about owning an AR-15 either. Are you trying to make stuff up?

It doesn't limit AR-15's either ... Don't make stuff up and pretend it means something it doesn't.

.

 

[Taz]

Doesn't say anything about owning an AR-15 either. Are you trying to make stuff up?

It doesn't limit AR-15's either ... Don't make stuff up and pretend it means something it doesn't.

.

Then let's arm the children at school, don't they have a 2nd Amendment right?

 

[Marion Morrison]

Doesn't say anything about owning an AR-15 either. Are you trying to make stuff up?

It doesn't limit AR-15's either ... Don't make stuff up and pretend it means something it doesn't.

.

Then let's arm the children at school, don't they have a 2nd Amendment right?

They do!

 

[BlackSand]

Then let's arm the children at school, don't they have a 2nd Amendment right?

Yes Children have the same Constitutional rights as adults.
There is no age requirement in federal law that prohibits a child from owning/possessing a rifle or ammunition ...

.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Doesn't say anything about owning an AR-15 either. Are you trying to make stuff up?

It doesn't limit AR-15's either ... Don't make stuff up and pretend it means something it doesn't.

.

Then let's arm the children at school, don't they have a 2nd Amendment right?

This is true, the 2nd does not give an age limit, so not allowing anyone of any age to own any armament is an infringement.

Remember, the 2nd does not say guns, it says "arms", that includes everything from tanks to grenades to SMAWs to...

 

[Geaux4it]

OK--so this year we have 18 school shootings, and it's not even March yet. Yesterday in Florida 15 young people with their entire lives in front of them, along with 2 school teachers trying to protect them were massacred. Then we have Las Vegas. Then a church in Texas were generations of family members were wiped out. We have a movie theatre in Aurora Colorado, then San Diego were a straw buyer purchased semi-automatics for a slaugther there, and Orlando, Florida another one. And Sandy Hook where 5 to 7 year olds were slaughtered.

People have called for better gun regulations in this country and it has continually fallen on deaf ears. Republicans are owned by the NRA and right wing gun extremists.

Here are my suggestions.
1. Ban semi-automatic weapons and 30 round gun clips.
2. People with existing semi-automatics & ammo be required to keep them in a locked secure gun case, and required to maintain an insurance liability policy on that weapon in order to keep them.
3. Parents of children & teenagers are required to keep all of their guns & ammo in locked secure gun safes, inaccessible at all times to their kids.
4. No private sales. If someone wants to sell their gun, it has to be dropped off at a licensed gun dealer for resale so a background check can be done.
5. Background checks including extended mental health checks before any purchase of a gun is made.
6. Straw buyers of guns, those who buy guns for others, be under the same prosecutable standards as those that pull the trigger.
7. Those that are on a no fly list, or FBI terrorist watch list not be able to purchase any guns or ammo.

If these simple regulations were in place--there would have never been a Las Vegas, a Sandy Hook, a Columbine massacre, a church in Texas, San Diego slaughter, Orlando, Florida massacre, a Virginia Tech etc. etc. etc., and 15 young kids and 2 teachers that were killed yesterday would be here today.

You won't convince Republicans to do any of this. They are OWNED by the NRA, and right wing gun extremists, and will fight (tooth & nail) on any new gun regulations. They are more interested in the donations they get from the NRA than keeping the public and our schools safe.

If you're tired of all the condolences & sympathies, then do something about it. Vote for Democrats in the midterm election cycle this coming November for common sense gun regulations.

Bad ideas

-Geaux

 

[Geaux4it]

Then let's arm the children at school, don't they have a 2nd Amendment right?

Yes Children have the same Constitutional rights as adults.
There is no age requirement in federal law that prohibits a child from owning a rifle or ammunition ...

.

Unfortunately, our children don't have the same rights in the womb.

Wonder if liberals would oppose abortion if the fetus was killed with a gun.

-Geaux