television kills people...??
music...??
Um, the 1980's called, they want their moms back.
Common sense gun regulations--need to be passed now.
- Thread starter oreo
- Start date
television kills people...??
music...??
Um, the 1980's called, they want their moms back.
- Moderator
- #323
You live in Idaho. What's the difference?
- Moderator
- #324
If you play the record backwards.......
oreo
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #326
Not even close. I am a gun owner. The best ones to get are ones without clips. Clips have a tendency to jam on pistols. The springs break, etc. etc.
If you can't handle a six shooter, standard rifle and shotgun, you have no business owning a semi automatic. Most people that own semi automatics want to play Rambo, and are more than likely scared of their own shadow. They're useless for hunting, self protection, and they're nothing more than people killers. They're too big to even carry around with a concealed weapons permit.
So hopefully when Democrats take over they'll ban semi-automatics and you all will be reduced to getting your next gun at Walmart in the toy department that looks like a semi-automatic. Then you can play Rambo in your backyard.
whitehall
Diamond Member
Do self described left wing firearms experts even know what "semi-automatic" means? You almost gotta laugh that lefties who used to demonstrate in the streets against "big brother" big government now think it's fine if federal agents enter a private home to inspect for properly secured firearms and insurance. We have a case today where federal agents (and local authorities) disregarded information that a maniac was going to become a mass killer and yet they want to enact inane new restrictions on law abiding gun owners.
Rustic
Diamond Member
- Oct 3, 2015
- 58,769
- 5,905
- 1,940
- Banned
- #328
Not even close. I am a gun owner. The best ones to get are ones without clips. Clips have a tendency to jam on pistols. The springs break, etc. etc.
If you can't handle a six shooter, standard rifle and shotgun, you have no business owning a semi automatic. Most people that own semi automatics want to play Rambo, and are more than likely scared of their own shadow. They're useless for hunting, self protection, and they're nothing more than people killers. They're too big to even carry around with a concealed weapons permit.
So hopefully when Democrats take over they'll ban semi-automatics and you all will be reduced to getting your next gun at Walmart in the toy department that looks like a semi-automatic. Then you can play Rambo in your backyard.
Rustic
Diamond Member
- Oct 3, 2015
- 58,769
- 5,905
- 1,940
- Banned
- #329
You obviously know nothing about firearms You don’t even know the difference between a magazine and a clip, ARs/m-4 and the like are some of the best hunting rifles... period.
Not even close. I am a gun owner. The best ones to get are ones without clips. Clips have a tendency to jam on pistols. The springs break, etc. etc.
If you can't handle a six shooter, standard rifle and shotgun, you have no business owning a semi automatic. Most people that own semi automatics want to play Rambo, and are more than likely scared of their own shadow. They're useless for hunting, self protection, and they're nothing more than people killers. They're too big to even carry around with a concealed weapons permit.
So hopefully when Democrats take over they'll ban semi-automatics and you all will be reduced to getting your next gun at Walmart in the toy department that looks like a semi-automatic. Then you can play Rambo in your backyard.
You get your information on firearms from watching far too many Hollywood movies made by child molesting Hollywood types... Like Michael Moore and his buddies.
Go ahead admit it you want firearm confiscation, You’re so much as said so in your above post... lol
- Moderator
- #330
The reality, you fascist little Nazi, is that you don't get to decide what business I have owning or not owning something and you never will, so I suggest you accept that now and move past your pouty little tantrum. Your entire argument was nothing but a giant Straw Man constructed with emotional hyperbole, shear nonsense, and juvenile insults, which again, as I stated before, is why you gun grabbing loons always fail at your endeavor to oppress your fellow Americans from exercising their lawful rights. Even if a Democratic Congress and president down the road were to succeed in reinstating an "assault" weapons ban, you really think they're going to go away? Tens of millions of them are in the hands of private owners and if you actually believe they are just going to give them all up because a bunch of bed wetting politicians say so, you're sadly mistaken.
Oh, and by the way, you might want to learn the difference between a magazine and a clip, **** tard. As I said before, you obviously don't know shit about guns and yet you have the nerve to lecture the rest of us.
OK--so this year we have 18 school shootings, and it's not even March yet. Yesterday in Florida 15 young people with their entire lives in front of them, along with 2 school teachers trying to protect them were massacred. Then we have Las Vegas. Then a church in Texas were generations of family members were wiped out. We have a movie theatre in Aurora Colorado, then San Diego were a straw buyer purchased semi-automatics for a slaugther there, and Orlando, Florida another one. And Sandy Hook where 5 to 7 year olds were slaughtered.
People have called for better gun regulations in this country and it has continually fallen on deaf ears. Republicans are owned by the NRA and right wing gun extremists.
Here are my suggestions.
1. Ban semi-automatic weapons and 30 round gun clips.
2. People with existing semi-automatics & ammo be required to keep them in a locked secure gun case, and required to maintain an insurance liability policy on that weapon in order to keep them.
3. Parents of children & teenagers are required to keep all of their guns & ammo in locked secure gun safes, inaccessible at all times to their kids.
4. No private sales. If someone wants to sell their gun, it has to be dropped off at a licensed gun dealer for resale so a background check can be done.
5. Background checks including extended mental health checks before any purchase of a gun is made.
6. Straw buyers of guns, those who buy guns for others, be under the same prosecutable standards as those that pull the trigger.
7. Those that are on a no fly list, or FBI terrorist watch list not be able to purchase any guns or ammo.
If these simple regulations were in place--there would have never been a Las Vegas, a Sandy Hook, a Columbine massacre, a church in Texas, San Diego slaughter, Orlando, Florida massacre, a Virginia Tech etc. etc. etc., and 15 young kids and 2 teachers that were killed yesterday would be here today.
You won't convince Republicans to do any of this. They are OWNED by the NRA, and right wing gun extremists, and will fight (tooth & nail) on any new gun regulations. They are more interested in the donations they get from the NRA than keeping the public and our schools safe.
If you're tired of all the condolences & sympathies, then do something about it. Vote for Democrats in the midterm election cycle this coming November for common sense gun regulations.
Good ‘ole Oreo, always good for a laugh....
Daryl Hunt
Your Worst Nightmare
- Banned
- #332
If you take away the AR then I am certain that the problem becomes the AK since it's the same class of weapon. And tell that to the school children that died, were wounded or scarred for life. That blood is on your hands, baby killer.
Daryl Hunt
Your Worst Nightmare
- Banned
- #333
Is that the best you got, Baby Killer?
Daryl Hunt
Your Worst Nightmare
- Banned
- #334
OK--so this year we have 18 school shootings, and it's not even March yet. Yesterday in Florida 15 young people with their entire lives in front of them, along with 2 school teachers trying to protect them were massacred. Then we have Las Vegas. Then a church in Texas were generations of family members were wiped out. We have a movie theatre in Aurora Colorado, then San Diego were a straw buyer purchased semi-automatics for a slaugther there, and Orlando, Florida another one. And Sandy Hook where 5 to 7 year olds were slaughtered.
People have called for better gun regulations in this country and it has continually fallen on deaf ears. Republicans are owned by the NRA and right wing gun extremists.
Here are my suggestions.
1. Ban semi-automatic weapons and 30 round gun clips.
2. People with existing semi-automatics & ammo be required to keep them in a locked secure gun case, and required to maintain an insurance liability policy on that weapon in order to keep them.
3. Parents of children & teenagers are required to keep all of their guns & ammo in locked secure gun safes, inaccessible at all times to their kids.
4. No private sales. If someone wants to sell their gun, it has to be dropped off at a licensed gun dealer for resale so a background check can be done.
5. Background checks including extended mental health checks before any purchase of a gun is made.
6. Straw buyers of guns, those who buy guns for others, be under the same prosecutable standards as those that pull the trigger.
7. Those that are on a no fly list, or FBI terrorist watch list not be able to purchase any guns or ammo.
If these simple regulations were in place--there would have never been a Las Vegas, a Sandy Hook, a Columbine massacre, a church in Texas, San Diego slaughter, Orlando, Florida massacre, a Virginia Tech etc. etc. etc., and 15 young kids and 2 teachers that were killed yesterday would be here today.
You won't convince Republicans to do any of this. They are OWNED by the NRA, and right wing gun extremists, and will fight (tooth & nail) on any new gun regulations. They are more interested in the donations they get from the NRA than keeping the public and our schools safe.
If you're tired of all the condolences & sympathies, then do something about it. Vote for Democrats in the midterm election cycle this coming November for common sense gun regulations.
Good ‘ole Oreo, always good for a laugh....
Oreo is right. It's you baby killers that are wrong, oh so wrong.
Daryl Hunt
Your Worst Nightmare
- Banned
- #335
Yet you support those that can easily buy it that will use it to commit mass murders. Hate to break it to you but that makes you a baby killer. Change the way the AR and the AK is procured otherwise, the mass shooting will just keep happening at an alarming rate.
Daryl Hunt
Your Worst Nightmare
- Banned
- #336
Hate to break it to you, baby killer, I own firearms. Does that make me an extreme rightwing nutjob? No, I have a neighbor that is one of those and my weapon is to protect me from him. I am more wary of the armed rightwinger than the criminal. That isn't the only reason I own firearms. I enjoy going to the range once in awhile and burning a couple of hundred rounds at a time. Guess you can put me on your extermination list right on top.
Spare_change
Gold Member
- Jun 27, 2011
- 8,690
- 1,294
- 280
OK--so this year we have 18 school shootings, and it's not even March yet. Yesterday in Florida 15 young people with their entire lives in front of them, along with 2 school teachers trying to protect them were massacred. Then we have Las Vegas. Then a church in Texas were generations of family members were wiped out. We have a movie theatre in Aurora Colorado, then San Diego were a straw buyer purchased semi-automatics for a slaugther there, and Orlando, Florida another one. And Sandy Hook where 5 to 7 year olds were slaughtered.
People have called for better gun regulations in this country and it has continually fallen on deaf ears. Republicans are owned by the NRA and right wing gun extremists.
Here are my suggestions.
1. Ban semi-automatic weapons and 30 round gun clips.
2. People with existing semi-automatics & ammo be required to keep them in a locked secure gun case, and required to maintain an insurance liability policy on that weapon in order to keep them.
3. Parents of children & teenagers are required to keep all of their guns & ammo in locked secure gun safes, inaccessible at all times to their kids.
4. No private sales. If someone wants to sell their gun, it has to be dropped off at a licensed gun dealer for resale so a background check can be done.
5. Background checks including extended mental health checks before any purchase of a gun is made.
6. Straw buyers of guns, those who buy guns for others, be under the same prosecutable standards as those that pull the trigger.
7. Those that are on a no fly list, or FBI terrorist watch list not be able to purchase any guns or ammo.
If these simple regulations were in place--there would have never been a Las Vegas, a Sandy Hook, a Columbine massacre, a church in Texas, San Diego slaughter, Orlando, Florida massacre, a Virginia Tech etc. etc. etc., and 15 young kids and 2 teachers that were killed yesterday would be here today.
You won't convince Republicans to do any of this. They are OWNED by the NRA, and right wing gun extremists, and will fight (tooth & nail) on any new gun regulations. They are more interested in the donations they get from the NRA than keeping the public and our schools safe.
If you're tired of all the condolences & sympathies, then do something about it. Vote for Democrats in the midterm election cycle this coming November for common sense gun regulations.
Your approach creates nice little bromidic headlines about all the great things you are going to do to fix a problem by not addressing the real issue. Then, six months later, you'll be scratching your head about why a shooter used a car full of fertilizer instead of a gun - how he used a shotgun instead of an AR-15, how he used a samurai sword, how he used a truck, how he used a bulldozer. The tool ISN'T the problem - the disturbed individual IS the problem, and until you attack the root cause of the problem, you're just pissing in the wind.
Tell me what gun control law you would institute that would have stopped Sandy Hook, Columbine, or Parkland. Sandy Hook - kid goes off the deep end, murders his mother, breaks into her gun safe, goes to school and kills 13 people. What law is going to stop that? The "don't kill your mother" law? The "don't break into gun safes" law? Kid says on YouTube - I want to be a professional school shooter. What do you propose? A law that says we can lock him away because he had "murderous thoughts"? The ACLU would have a freakin' field day.
As for this absolute idiocy about "military style killing machines" - what if he had a shotgun instead? Frankly, using an AR-15 semi-automatic is a poor choice. A 12 gauge shotgun would be a much more effective weapon in close quarters. Shotguns using buckshot and slugs are known to be particularly brutal. Typical 00 buckshot is the rough equivalent of 9 – 12x 9mm bullets hitting a target at once and a slug is a a solid lead meat pulverizer. Buckshot maintains its lethality up to about 70 yards - how many shots in Parkland do you suppose were over 70 yards? A shotgun with slugs is roughly as lethal as your average hunting rifle with its range - about 120 yards. You can buy a SEMI-AUTOMATIC shotgun for a lot less than an AR-15. Every gun enthusiast likes an AR-15 because it LOOKS bad-ass, and every gun control enthusiast hates an AR-15 because it LOOKS bad-ass. In truth, it's a pretty poor weapon to use in a school shooting.
Banning all the AR-15s in the world won't stop what happened -because the problem isn't the gun. Yeah, but, you say - if he didn't have an AR-15, he still would have killed people - just not so many. That's a ridiculous argument. That doesn't make the first child shot, or the second, or the third, any less dead. That's attacking the symptom, not the problem, and frankly, until liberals are willing to admit that it's the individual, not the gun, we are never going to fix this problem. I recognize it makes cute headlines to advocate for gun control, but it doesn't accomplish a damn thing.
I understand - people want to do something - anything - to make it stop. It doesn't matter if it's effective, it doesn't matter if it addresses the problem. Just do SOMETHING!!!! We all want a nice, simple, safe fix that doesn't inconvenience us - one that takes away somebody's freedom, as long as it isn't mine. That simple fix doesn't exist ------ address the problem, not the symptom. The problem is mentally disturbed people who do bad things.
In the military, when we plan a mission, we identify the "risk profile" for each alternative approach. We need to do the same here - assign EVERY individual a Risk Profile. Your risk profile is higher than mine because you have a demonstrated history of mental maladjustment. Mine is higher than yours because, in addition to taking anti-psychotic drugs, I have had multiple confrontations with police or authority figures. His neighbors have turned him in twice for cruelty to animals AND he's taking anti-depressants. Create a risk spectrum - rate all people on that spectrum. Use that rating to determine the viability/risk of them owning a weapon. Not sure how that's going to stop him from getting a stolen weapon, but, hey, it's your world.
At what point are you willing to sacrifice YOUR freedoms in order to attack this problem? At what point are you willing to allow government intrusion into YOUR life in order to keep kids safe? You want a nice, easy, simple solution - all wrapped in a pretty bow. You want to be able to say you did something - anything - you want to be able to say you tried. More accurately, you don't care what we do - just do SOMETHING! Then, when it happens again, you can just shake your head and say that you tried. And, more kids will still be dead.
None of that, by the way, prevents him from killing his mother and stealing her guns. Ask Chicago how well strict gun control laws work - ask Washington DC how well strict gun control laws work. You have a "solution" - it just doesn't fit the problem.
I like a "comprehensive" approach - increase school security protocols. The high school had access control, armed police officers, and trained security personnel. The only thing left is 30 foot walls and machine gun turrets. Moats and drawbridges? You can argue whether their response to the incident was appropriate - though, I've seen nothing to indicate it wasn't. But, what would you propose to stop this particular incident? How about Columbine? If you recall, they pre-positioned bombs (never used) and set up sniper nests outside the school. You can't fix the problem, until you address the root cause.
Mental health treatment and access? Absolutely. But, you failed to address the key issue - how do you get the disturbed people to the treatment? How do you identify them? How do you force them to take their drugs? How do you force them to attend therapy sessions? Keep in mind - these people haven't done anything that justifies court action. Are YOU willing to be subject to the level of scrutiny, and freedom restriction, necessary to pre-screen these individuals, and force them to get help?
I don't think most people realize how many incidents happen at your local school. Tuesday, a lone individual was identified walking the halls of the high school. He was confronted, and had no legitimate reason to be there (he claimed he was a graduate and was visiting an old teacher - he wasn't). The law here says that the police will not respond unless there is a direct altercation. No confrontation? Just escort him off the property. The security guard "nudged" him into a confrontation - two took him down, and the police arrived. Fortunately, he was just a registered sex offender, not a mass murderer. How did he get in? After checking the cameras, they found out. He came in the loading dock behind a student who had opened the door with his access card to offload some art supplies.
This type of incident happens 3 -5 times a month. Check with security personnel at your local school - you'll be shocked. So, school security is a definite area of improvement.
BUT - that doesn't change the attack at the mall or the concert or the football game.
Once again, the left has presumed a solution, and bent the evidence to support a preconceived notion. It is the same, old, simplistic rehash of a continued effort to use apples to prove oranges. While it's pretty with all its charts and pictures, it's the same old liberal propaganda - false.
Until the left is willing to talk about the real root causes of these problems, we are going to get nowhere. We will continue to hear a hue and cry to take away our freedoms, and people will continue to die.
We shouldn't be asking why there are more shootings - we should be asking why more school shootings are being executed by millennials and children? What did we do wrong with THIS generation? We've had guns in this nation since its inception. Why is this suddenly an issue?
We've had mentally disturbed people kill groups of people - Richard Speck comes to mind. We've had people, driven by ideological or religious difference, kill groups of people. Remember the Pulse nightclub or Charleston church.
But, never, never, in our history, have we had so many killings done by 14-15-16 year old kids. The last shooting, in Florida, was done by a 19 year old kid.
You can't fix the problem until you address the problem.
- Moderator
- #338
Is that best you have, Captain Straw Man? You really think you're changing anybody's mind with that inane rhetoric?
EvilCat Breath
Diamond Member
- Sep 23, 2016
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No mother should have to fear for her son's life every time he beats and robs someone.
Spare_change
Gold Member
- Jun 27, 2011
- 8,690
- 1,294
- 280
WE have a problem ... we need to fix it.
Gun control is not the problem, because the guns are only the tool. The problem is the shooter, so let's explore that.
There is no way, in our legal system, to restrict the actions/movement of individual citizens UNTIL they commit some crime. You cannot be arrested UNTIL you commit the crime. You can't be arrested for thinking about doing it - you can't even be arrested for saying you'e GOING to do it. So, legal manipulation can't be the answer, until you're willing to give up your freedoms to be used/abused by the government in their infinite wisdom.
So, we're left with some kind of administrative answer. The answer isn't a gun ownership database. That serves no purpose UNTIL the crime is committed.
So - if it isn't the gun, what's the problem? We can restrict the access to guns of those who have demonstrated mental illness or mental incapacity. Simply, we need a database of those people who: 1) have committed crimes, or 2) demonstrated mental issues.
Pass a law that REQUIRES all mental health professionals to register the names of all clients who have sought help for mental health issues. Pass a law that REQUIRES all medical doctors to register the names of all patients who have a) demonstrated mental issues, or 2) been prescribed mind altering drugs. Pass a law that REQUIRES the local police to report all incidents involving potential mental health issues.
Require the government to review this database prior to issuing a gun sales permit. If you are on anti-depressants now or in the past, you can't buy a gun. If you are on anti-psychotic drugs now or in the past, you can't buy a gun. If you have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, you can't buy a gun.
The result is two things: some citizens will have their freedoms curtailed. It's unclear if the shooter in Florida would have been denied access to a gun if these laws were in place, so we have to go one step further.
In addition, any citizen can report to the local police questionable actions, or words, by any other citizen that may be construed as detrimental to public safety [See Something - Say Something]. These incidents are put into a separate database. Mental health professionals will review the entries, and when a citizen exceeds some arbitrary threshold, he is classified as a 'potential threat', and is denied purchase of a gun. The government will be required to notify an individual if he is placed on the 'potential threat' list. There will be, necessarily, an appeal process in which a person can have his name removed - but, until that is adjudicated, he/she is denied access to a gun.
In order for this to work, ALL gun transfers will be required to be processed - for a nominal fee - by a licensed gun dealer who will request the background/mental health/potential threat review.
These processes address the REAL issue - the individual who chooses to use a tool to kill someone else. But, just as obviously, these are massive invasions of a person's individual rights. However, this intrusion is the result of an individual's own actions - not a blanket denial of freedom to all those who do NOT fit into these categories.
So, the question is - are YOU willing to watch the rights of citizens be subsumed by the government in the name of security and safety?
Gun control is not the problem, because the guns are only the tool. The problem is the shooter, so let's explore that.
There is no way, in our legal system, to restrict the actions/movement of individual citizens UNTIL they commit some crime. You cannot be arrested UNTIL you commit the crime. You can't be arrested for thinking about doing it - you can't even be arrested for saying you'e GOING to do it. So, legal manipulation can't be the answer, until you're willing to give up your freedoms to be used/abused by the government in their infinite wisdom.
So, we're left with some kind of administrative answer. The answer isn't a gun ownership database. That serves no purpose UNTIL the crime is committed.
So - if it isn't the gun, what's the problem? We can restrict the access to guns of those who have demonstrated mental illness or mental incapacity. Simply, we need a database of those people who: 1) have committed crimes, or 2) demonstrated mental issues.
Pass a law that REQUIRES all mental health professionals to register the names of all clients who have sought help for mental health issues. Pass a law that REQUIRES all medical doctors to register the names of all patients who have a) demonstrated mental issues, or 2) been prescribed mind altering drugs. Pass a law that REQUIRES the local police to report all incidents involving potential mental health issues.
Require the government to review this database prior to issuing a gun sales permit. If you are on anti-depressants now or in the past, you can't buy a gun. If you are on anti-psychotic drugs now or in the past, you can't buy a gun. If you have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, you can't buy a gun.
The result is two things: some citizens will have their freedoms curtailed. It's unclear if the shooter in Florida would have been denied access to a gun if these laws were in place, so we have to go one step further.
In addition, any citizen can report to the local police questionable actions, or words, by any other citizen that may be construed as detrimental to public safety [See Something - Say Something]. These incidents are put into a separate database. Mental health professionals will review the entries, and when a citizen exceeds some arbitrary threshold, he is classified as a 'potential threat', and is denied purchase of a gun. The government will be required to notify an individual if he is placed on the 'potential threat' list. There will be, necessarily, an appeal process in which a person can have his name removed - but, until that is adjudicated, he/she is denied access to a gun.
In order for this to work, ALL gun transfers will be required to be processed - for a nominal fee - by a licensed gun dealer who will request the background/mental health/potential threat review.
These processes address the REAL issue - the individual who chooses to use a tool to kill someone else. But, just as obviously, these are massive invasions of a person's individual rights. However, this intrusion is the result of an individual's own actions - not a blanket denial of freedom to all those who do NOT fit into these categories.
So, the question is - are YOU willing to watch the rights of citizens be subsumed by the government in the name of security and safety?
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