Columbine Was Never About Christian Persecution

[WorldAHope]

I think we can assume in this instance, given the use of the word "Jesus" and the fact that they were asking students they KNEW to be Christian the question, that they were referring to the Christian God.

Nice deflection attempt, but irrelevant as hell. Dis would have a cow...except Dis seems to be a bit retarded in the relevancy department.

The way Cullen analyzed Harris as being "messiahanic" was not that Harris was in any way religious, or anti-Christian, but that the kid had a seriously defective personality - megalomaniacal sociopath, a Hitler.
Religion meant nothing to him. He believed in no God, and hated all humanity. And managed tyo get his hands on weapons and deadly material. Whatever we do, we need to keep an eye out for these screwed up people, and to keep weapons away from them. Or them away from weapons.
The guy who killed all those people in Binghamton NY a few days ago was in that region of disturbed personality. On the edge, ready to pop, out buying weapons.

 

[Dis]

I think we can assume in this instance, given the use of the word "Jesus" and the fact that they were asking students they KNEW to be Christian the question, that they were referring to the Christian God.

Nice deflection attempt, but irrelevant as hell. Dis would have a cow...except Dis seems to be a bit retarded in the relevancy department.

Who's obsessed with whom, Babble-alots? You've now brought me into two (at least) discussions that I'm not part of. Are you mental?

Darn, I thought you were ignoring me. It was nice while it lasted.

Ok, you DO see where you look totally mentally retarded when you call someone else obsessed with you, while you're carrying THEM from thread to thread with you, expecting them not to address your challenges, right?

I mean, you ARE at least THAT smart, yes?

 

[WorldAHope]

A lot of the kids they targeted were very well known in the school. Popular, outgoing, involved in extracurricular activities.

Then perhaps that was their primary target, the popular kids.

Were they targeting individuals, or just trying to kill as many as they could, going room to room ?
They began to move through the halls shooting after the bombs they had built and placed did not detonate.
A high school a few towns over from me had a gun scare a couple weeks ago. A couple boys snuck 2 handguns into the cafeteria (the school has metal detectors, and it was learned later that a hall monitor has carelessly observed and allowed a kid to slip a bag around the detector to his friend, not knowing it contained guns). A girl saw them sneaking in a corner, waving the pistols around, like they were at an arcade. She screamed "GUN!" and ran and that caused a panicked stampede. They school was instantly locked down, gates dropped, and exit doors locked, (that procedure made parents get crazy mad at the school admin., later), teachers and staff herded panicked students into rooms and locked doors.
Dozens of cop cars and firetrucks and ambulances raced to the school ad surrounded it, SWAT teanm showed up and went in. Parents had gotten texts and calls from their kids in the school and were at the school fast, crying and holding on to the fence, it was awful. People were scared.
The police moved through the building in 3s and 4s, guns drawn, alert, radios active. They searched the cafeteria, interviewed a bunch of kids. It took a while to narrow down what had happened, and to determine what weapons were involved. They retrieved 2 unloaded handguns, with ammo clips seperate. They had been brought by a kid to SELL to another kid who did not even attend that school.
They finally, after a couple hours, took 2 teenaged boys away in handcuffs and called the all clear.

People, even kids who were not even old enough to be in kindergarten when Columbine happened, are terrified of some deranged kid going homicidal on a crowded defenseless school with a semi-automatic extended clip handgun.
Parents were absolutely beside themselves with fear because they did not know what was happening and feared the worst.
Bullets know no religion. They shred all flesh and shatter all bones.

 

[AllieBaba]

I think we can assume in this instance, given the use of the word "Jesus" and the fact that they were asking students they KNEW to be Christian the question, that they were referring to the Christian God.

Nice deflection attempt, but irrelevant as hell. Dis would have a cow...except Dis seems to be a bit retarded in the relevancy department.

The way Cullen analyzed Harris as being "messiahanic" was not that Harris was in any way religious, or anti-Christian, but that the kid had a seriously defective personality - megalomaniacal sociopath, a Hitler.
Religion meant nothing to him. He believed in no God, and hated all humanity. And managed tyo get his hands on weapons and deadly material. Whatever we do, we need to keep an eye out for these screwed up people, and to keep weapons away from them. Or them away from weapons.
The guy who killed all those people in Binghamton NY a few days ago was in that region of disturbed personality. On the edge, ready to pop, out buying weapons.

True enough. Still interesting that the primary conversation the killers had with their victims was whether or not they believed in God.

 

[AllieBaba]

Who's obsessed with whom, Babble-alots? You've now brought me into two (at least) discussions that I'm not part of. Are you mental?

Darn, I thought you were ignoring me. It was nice while it lasted.

Ok, you DO see where you look totally mentally retarded when you call someone else obsessed with you, while you're carrying THEM from thread to thread with you, expecting them not to address your challenges, right?

I mean, you ARE at least THAT smart, yes?

Are you stalking me now?

 

[AllieBaba]

A lot of the kids they targeted were very well known in the school. Popular, outgoing, involved in extracurricular activities.

Then perhaps that was their primary target, the popular kids.

Were they targeting individuals, or just trying to kill as many as they could, going room to room ?
They began to move through the halls shooting after the bombs they had built and placed did not detonate.
A high school a few towns over from me had a gun scare a couple weeks ago. A couple boys snuck 2 handguns into the cafeteria (the school has metal detectors, and it was learned later that a hall monitor has carelessly observed and allowed a kid to slip a bag around the detector to his friend, not knowing it contained guns). A girl saw them sneaking in a corner, waving the pistols around, like they were at an arcade. She screamed "GUN!" and ran and that caused a panicked stampede. They school was instantly locked down, gates dropped, and exit doors locked, (that procedure made parents get crazy mad at the school admin., later), teachers and staff herded panicked students into rooms and locked doors.
Dozens of cop cars and firetrucks and ambulances raced to the school ad surrounded it, SWAT teanm showed up and went in. Parents had gotten texts and calls from their kids in the school and were at the school fast, crying and holding on to the fence, it was awful. People were scared.
The police moved through the building in 3s and 4s, guns drawn, alert, radios active. They searched the cafeteria, interviewed a bunch of kids. It took a while to narrow down what had happened, and to determine what weapons were involved. They retrieved 2 unloaded handguns, with ammo clips seperate. They had been brought by a kid to SELL to another kid who did not even attend that school.
They finally, after a couple hours, took 2 teenaged boys away in handcuffs and called the all clear.

People, even kids who were not even old enough to be in kindergarten when Columbine happened, are terrified of some deranged kid going homicidal on a crowded defenseless school with a semi-automatic extended clip handgun.
Parents were absolutely beside themselves with fear because they did not know what was happening and feared the worst.
Bullets know no religion. They shred all flesh and shatter all bones.

But the stories the children who were caught in the crossfire tells us of the strength to face the situation, and the ability to go on, which came from their faith.

 

[ItsFairmont]

Eric Harris was a psychopath.

A psychopath is a specific term, and it doesn't mean crazy or dangerous. It means someone who is incapable of sympathy or empathy.

In other words, they have no ability to feel badly for someone else. The world is full of robots, and only they can feel sadness.

Most psychopaths are harmless, but the few who have violent tendencies are a nightmare to society.


It was probably a psychopath who coined the term "bleeding heart." They were mocking people. Psychopaths don't believe others HAVE any feelings. Only they do.

 

[Smartt33]

Smartt: That is not even issue. I don't recall more than a few individuals who ever said that mass murder had anything to do with Christians or Christianity.

 

[YWN666]

Smartt: That is not even issue. I don't recall more than a few individuals who ever said that mass murder had anything to do with Christians or Christianity.

Here is one:
Speech by Darrel Scott father of Columbine victim - PostWorthy

Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual influences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God and in so doing we open the doors to hatred and violence And when something as terrible as Columbine tragedy occurs, politicians immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political posturing and restrictive legislation are not the answers.

The young people of our nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place that will not be squelched! We do not need more religion, or more gaudy television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not need more million dollar church buildings built while people with basic needs are being ignored. We do need a change of heart and a humble acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple trust in God.

As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right. I challenge every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back into our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with him.



Darrell Scott seems to have forgotten that prayer was never forbidden in public schools.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

Columbine was about gun control. And, the fact that two would-be bullies sought revenge on anyone else weaker (unarmed) than they were. Just to prove how bad ass they were. They aren't any different than those people that crash planes into buildings or strap on bombs to hurt innocent people. It's a death wish, some inherent hate of the self and hate of all of the human race, not some anti-religious statement. What they did was the nearest thing to pure evil I can think of.

 

[homo#1]

columbine was the result of the NRA and all the gun happy Yanks who think the need armed protection from each other.

 

[KittenKoder]

What .. the ... hell ... ?

Gun control ... NRA ... that's worse than thinking it was a religious thing.

 

[AllieBaba]

Get over it, loser. They own the board.

 

[Father Time]

It was a gun control issue?

Oh and I suppose gun control would've stopped them from building homemade bombs and attempting to blow them up at the school.

 

[AllieBaba]

Now you're talking like a true Muslim.

 

[Father Time]

Americans should have "gun day" where everyone pulls out their weapons and shoot each other every year on the columbine anniversary. Prizes could be given for the most people killed, best decapitation with a single shot...

Or we can just have paintball competitions in schools across the country and make all the paintballs a shade of red.

That would be the sure-fire sign of getting over the tragedy, by making it a joke.

Or if not we can just play this

 

[rozzwilliams98]

I am utterly astounded to see that there are still people who believe the myth that Cassie Bernall "said yes". This has been conclusively debunked. Within weeks of the shootings, papers like the Denver Post knew that it never occurred. The story originated with Craig Scott, who said he heard heard one of the shooters ask a girl if she believed in God. He did not actually see the exchange, but said he believed the voice belonged to Cassie Bernall. When he was taken on walk through of the scene by Police, he pointed out a spot in the opposite direction of where Cassie Bernall was hiding, but which was actually where another girl, Valeen Schnurr, was located. Another supposed "witness" Joshua Lapp, did not actually see anything, and was located some distance away from Cassie, midway between she and Schnurr. Lapp claimed to have heard both girls' conversations aabout God. But, he originally claimed to have heard Cassie Bernall in the eastern part of the library "closest to the hallway" when in fact she was in the western part of the room. Later, he changed his story. His chronology is also wrong. According to his account, Casie Bernall was killed before Schnurr's encounter, which is erroneous.
Evan Todd is another "witness" used to support the "she said yes" story. He claims to have heard two "God" conversations, presumably Valeen and Schurr. But he reports one voice as simply saying "Oh my God! Oh my God!" This does jibe with what Emily says Cassie was saying prior to her death, but was not a "conversation" with the killer. Todd later admitted that his identification of Cassie in the "God" conversation was due to hearing news reports. He also claimed that the killer said 'God is gay", which was not confirmed by any other victim.
All THREE of the primary witnesses for the "she said yes" story place the event at the location of Valeen, not Cassie.
Only one person, Emily Wyant, actually saw Cassie Bernall's death. She firmly stated that no conversation between the shooter and Cassie Bernall took place at all. Cassie Bernall was crying "Oh, my God, Oh my God, please don't let me die". The shooter, probably Klebold, simply leaned down and and shot her without a word. Period. The only person was asked about G-d was Valeen Schnurr, and this was after she was shot. She did not die. Byron Kirkland and Bree Pasquale. who were closer to Cassie than Scott and Todd, also confirmed Emily Wyant's account. Interesting enough, they were never interviewed by the "she said yes" proponents. So, the people who were closest to Cassie one who saw and two who heard her death, say she never "said yes".
The "she said yes" myth is refuted by the official FBI report. Details can be found in "Columbine" by Dave Cullen, released earlier this year which is the definitive account of the shootings; and in "Columbine: A True Crime Story, a victim, the killers and the nation's search for answers" by Jeff Kass. Also see "Cloud over Columbine: How the Press got it Wrong and the POlice Let it Happen" by Dave Cullen.
In the book "The Martyrs of columbine, author Justin Watson explains that students heard allegations about Cassie Bernall saying "yes" on TV, then simply repeated them as if they were witnesses. Many other sources such as CNN have concluded the same thing. In her book "Cassie Said Yes", Misty Bernall tacitly acknowledges that the encounter did not happen. She then says "Our intent was to share Cassie's story in an effort to encourage parents and teenagers. If any of our actions have hurt or offended anyone, we sincerely apologize", said the Bernalls. They say that the story is really not about the events at Columbine, but the story of a troubled girl who encountered God and experienced a dramatic change as a result. This is a nice sidestep.
Anyone who simply googles "Cassie Bernall" can find ample documentation. At your local library you can find even more. The same media who reported that "Cassie said yes" also declared that Klebold and Harris were Goths, and members of the Trench Coat Mafia, both of which were also shown to be completely spurious. The misinformation occurred because the media hastily reported hearsay without waiting for the facts. The local Sheriff also make some incredibly stupid comments.
The terrible thing is that the one girl who DID tell her shooter she believed in God was ignored and accused of lying and trying to get attention by Churches who declared Cassie Bernall to be a "martyr".
Cassie Bernall was a wonderful girl who, like the other victims, went to a needless death. But the vast preponderance of evidence indicates that she did not "say yes". It is pretty clear that the only "God" conversation took place between Valeen Schurr and one of the killers, and it was simply misattributed to Cassie Bernall.

 

[Rubber Hoser]

Columbine was about the way too easy access to guns in the US.

 

[editec]

Had they been specifically targeting Christians, I'm reasonably sure they'd have attacked a chuch.

After all, if Christians are the target, a chruch is where you KNOW you're going to ding your quarry, right?

They wanted to kill a LOT of people...based on the kid's website he basically hated everyone.

Christians were just another of his targets. As were Trekkies, people who liked TV wrestling and on and on and on.

Leave it tot he evangelists to imagine that they were specifically targeted.

That delusionaly belief in this case jibes with their paranoic delusion that anybody really gives a damn about their faith.

 

[AllieBaba]

In their tapes, the boys referred to the girls they were targeting as "Christian loving whores." Kelbold said "I am glad we killed Christ" and Dylan said "I will shoot Christian girls in the head."


The "Arizona news" that reported it wasn't about killing Christians was the "Arizona Atheist," NOT the Denver Post.
ARIZONA ATHEIST: Columbine's Christian Martyrdom Never Happened

Hmm. Atheists contend it's never about killing Christians, or they contend that if Christians are targeted, it's because they deserve it.

What the POST said was that the tapes the killers left behind were patently anti-Christian, and stoked the fire of another Christian killer (the church gunman Matthew Murray) when they were released to the public.

"Chilling echoes of Columbine killer Eric Harris' angry manifesto heard in church gunman Matthew Murray's Web writings resonated with two families touched by tragedy.

Murray, 24, is the man who police say killed four people Sunday at an Arvada Youth With a Mission dormitory and New Life Church in Colorado Springs.

Tom Mauser, whose son Daniel died in the Columbine tragedy in 1999, finds "it is disgusting that (Murray) would take the writing of Eric Harris" and rework it into his own statement of revenge.

"The finding of Harris' words doesn't change one's motivation," Mauser said. "One may want to copy him and say 'I relate to him,' but you can also argue that he's copying the Omaha (shopping mall) killer."

on Harris' words renewed some of the debate over whether the Columbine killers' writings and tapes should have been released to the public.

"Some feared they would inspire copycats, while others argued that the public is better served by knowing what the teens thought. "

Debate renewed on Columbine writings - The Denver Post

So maybe before you spout off about crap, you might try to research it a little yourself, instead of just relying on what your anti-Christian friends tell you.