Cindy Sheehan arrested at Petraeus hearing

[CSM]

I doubt that her son chose to die but I do not know his opinion on the war in Iraq but I do know that there are soldiers and their families who are opposed to the war. There are soldiers and their families who support the war...something you conveniently ignore in your rantings. The decision to go into this war was political and that decision directly led to her son's death and she has every right to condemn those who caused her son to die based on their opinion. It's called voting... It is clear that this war was not a war of defense and that it was a war of choice and what it comes down to is that those who support this war think that they have the right to send our loved ones to fight and die for their opinions. And those that don't support the war think they have a right to tell others to surrender to the enemy like sheep because of their opinions. They don't join the military to fight and to die for other people's opinions instead they join to defend their country. You have no clue why men and women join the military; pretending you do is just plain horse shit. You made it personal WHEN YOUR VOTE KILLED HER SON ASSHOLE.

You have achieved a status well beyond asshole. Even the titles "pond scum" and "whale shit" does not do justice in describing just how low you are on the scale of human decency.

 

[Edward]

How in the hell can you post this crap??? A mother's grief is measured by YOUR political leanings??? One mother's grief over the loss of a son has more merit than another's because one of them has a political agenda that you happen to agree with?

Nice try you asshole but I won't let you twist what I said so you can sleep SOUNDLY AT NIGHT KNOWING THAT YOUR VOTE DIDN'T CAUSE ANOTHER PERSON TO DIE FOR YOUR OPINION. The reality is that Debbie Lee can never understand the grief Sheehan feels because hse agrees with what we are doing in Iraq and that offers her the comfort of believing her son died in a good cause. In short, it mitigates her loss and allows her to feel some sense of purpose in that loss (i.e., people who lose their loved ones in a senseless slaughter feel greater grief than those who can rest knowing that their son died rushing into a burning building to save a child). Sheehan cannot feel that sense of purpose and doesn't have anything to mitigate the loss of her loved one. She doesn't even have the comfort of knowing that he died in a war of defense. I never said that "one mother's grief has more merit than anothers because one agrees with me." To even suggest this shows how uncaring you are about how much pain YOUR VOTE AND OPINION has caused Cindy Sheehan and all those who have lost loved ones as a result of your opinion. That you would even think that Lee's level of grief is comparable to that of Sheehan is outrageous because it ignores the fact that Lee has something to rely on while Sheehan doesn't. A person who lose thir son doing something they believe can never feel the same level of grief that a mother who lost her child in a drunk driving accident feels anymore than a mother who lost her son in a war she agrees with can ever feel the same level of grief that a mother who lost her loved one in what she believes is an unjust war. Had the circumstances of this war been different (i.e., Iraq had attacked us) than Sheehan could always know that her son died doing what he joined the military to do which is to defend his family, friends, neighbors and country but she doesn't have that since this was not a war of defense. Instead, the only people who can ever feel any comfort from the loss of their loved ones in this war are those who believe in and support it. This goes for the soldiers fighting in Iraq too. Those who disagree with this war feel greater and bitterness than those who support it. Their fighting is by virtue more patriotic than that of those who agree with it because they are even willing to put their lives on the line for the opinions of people they do not agree with. They may have signed up to defend their country but they are now willing to fight for the opinions of others. This shows a true and marked difference between the two just like there is a marked difference between the grief Sheehan feels and the grief that Lee feels.

More likely, you want to present Ms. Sheehan as a sympathetic figure because she represents your twisted position and marginalize Ms. Lee's loss because she represents diametric opposition to your insanity.

There you go yet again. Trying to justify your actions.

I may be a bay killing warmonger but even I have more compassion than you display in this post!

Where is the compassion? Because I sure as hell don't see it. All I see is you trying to justify your opinion which has caused the death of so many people including Cindy Sheehan's son. Ms. Lee may have the ability to think to herself: MY SON DIED FOR A JUST CAUSE THAT I AGREE WITH, but Sheehan has this thought to go to bed with: MY SON DIED FOR MS. LEE'S OPINION. Anyone who cannot understand this doesn't deserve to BE CALLED COMPASSIONATE. Yet your total lack of compassion isn't shocking SINCE IT WAS LACKING WHEN YOU DECIDED TO BELIEVE THAT YOU HAD THE RIGHT TO SEND OTHERS TO DIE FOR YOUR OPINION WHEN THEY JOINED THE MILITARY TO DEFEND THEIR COUNTRY AND NOT DIE FOR YOUR OPINION.

 

[CSM]

Nice try you asshole but I won't let you twist what I said so you can sleep SOUNDLY AT NIGHT KNOWING THAT YOUR VOTE DIDN'T CAUSE ANOTHER PERSON TO DIE FOR YOUR OPINION. The reality is that Debbie Lee can never understand the grief Sheehan feels because hse agrees with what we are doing in Iraq and that offers her the comfort of believing her son died in a good cause. Horse shit. You have absolutely no insight into how Ms. Lee feels. . In short, it mitigates her loss and allows her to feel some sense of purpose in that loss (i.e., people who lose their loved ones in a senseless slaughter feel greater grief than those who can rest knowing that their son died rushing into a burning building to save a child). Sheehan cannot feel that sense of purpose and doesn't have anything to mitigate the loss of her loved one. She doesn't even have the comfort of knowing that he died in a war of defense. I never said that "one mother's grief has more merit than anothers because one agrees with me." Your whole post was exactly that point! To even suggest this shows how uncaring you are about how much pain YOUR VOTE AND OPINION has caused Cindy Sheehan and all those who have lost loved ones as a result of your opinion. You have no idea how I voted or how much (or little) I care. That you would even think that Lee's level of grief is comparable to that of Sheehan is outrageous because it ignores the fact that Lee has something to rely on while Sheehan doesn't. Still trying to make that point? You deny that you use your political stance as a metric for measuring the level of a mother's grief in one sentence and then state exactly that in the next. A person who lose thir son doing something they believe can never feel the same level of grief that a mother who lost her child in a drunk driving accident feels anymore than a mother who lost her son in a war she agrees with can ever feel the same level of grief that a mother who lost her loved one in what she believes is an unjust war. Really? How do you know that. You make a lot of assumptions but have no proof of that. Had the circumstances of this war been different (i.e., Iraq had attacked us) than Sheehan could always know that her son died doing what he joined the military to do which is to defend his family, friends, neighbors and country but she doesn't have that since this was not a war of defense. Bullshit. Sheehan's son joined because he WANTED to serve. Instead, the only people who can ever feel any comfort from the loss of their loved ones in this war are those who believe in and support it. This goes for the soldiers fighting in Iraq too. Those who disagree with this war feel greater anger, and bitterness than those who support it. Their fighting is by virtue more patriotic than that of those who agree with it because they are even willing to put their lives on the line for the opinions of people they do not agree with. Same goes for those who support the war. Soldiers do not get to pick and choose which people they will serve. They may have signed up to defend their country but they are now willing to fight for the opinions of others. This shows a true and marked difference between the two just like there is a marked difference between the grief Sheehan feels and the grief that Lee feels.



There you go yet again. Trying to justify your actions.

I may be a bay killing warmonger but even I have more compassion than you display in this post!

Where is the compassion? Because I sure as hell don't see it. All I see is you trying to justify your opinion which has caused the death of so many people including Cindy Sheehan's son. Ms. Lee may have the ability to think to herself: MY SON DIED FOR A JUST CAUSE THAT I AGREE WITH, but Sheehan has this thought to go to bed with: MY SON DIED FOR MS. LEE'S OPINION. How about "my son died for his own opinion???? Anyone who cannot understand this doesn't deserve to BE CALLED COMPASSIONATE. You don't deserve to be called "sane" but I bet you think you are. Yet your total lack of compassion isn't shocking SINCE IT WAS LACKING WHEN YOU DECIDED TO BELIEVE THAT YOU HAD THE RIGHT TO SEND OTHERS TO DIE FOR YOUR OPINION WHEN THEY JOINED THE MILITARY TO DEFEND THEIR COUNTRY AND NOT DIE FOR YOUR OPINION.[/QUOTE]


You are saying that people have no right to their opinion and no right to vote based on my opinion. that and are asserting that you KNOW how people feel. You truly are an idiot.

 

[Edward]

You have achieved a status well beyond asshole. Even the titles "pond scum" and "whale shit" does not do justice in describing just how low you are on the scale of human decency.

You should take a look in the mirror and stop projecting what you are onto others. Like I have said your opinion has caused other people to die including those who do not agree with you. Americans who signed up to defend this country and to die for it are now being asked to die for your opinion and the opinion of your political party. You want to talk about politicizing something than let's talk about you POLITICIZING THE DEATH OF THOSE WHO SERVE THIS COUNTRY and are willing to die defending it based solely on your opinion that we should be in Iraq. I may not agree with Cindy Sheehan but I do understand why she feels the way she does. It is clear that you do not see the # 1 reason why people are upset with this war and that is: it is a war of choice, and one that they do not agree with and yet they and their loved ones are asked to sacrifice, and to even die for the opinions of others when they never signed up to do so. These men and women joined to defend their country and not die for your opinion and that is what you refuse to comprehend because doing so would require you to admit that you killed her son.

 

[CSM]

You should take a look in the mirror and stop projecting what you are onto others. Naw, that would be too easy for people like you. I am the guy that starts your day by causing you anxiety and frustration...something that gives me great pleasure. In fact, I live for that! Like I have said your opinion has caused other people to die including those who do not agree with you. And your opinions have no impact at all! I would point out that you have no idea how I vote or to what political party I belong to. I suppose you can safely assume that whatever they are, it is in direct opposition to your fantasy. Americans who signed up to defend this country and to die for it are now being asked to die for your opinion and the opinion of your political party. Guess what. That is true for every soldier that ever signed up. I bet Hitler wished that American soldiers sided with his opinion and not the rest of the world's. You want to talk about politicizing something than let's talk about you POLITICIZING THE DEATH OF THOSE WHO SERVE THIS COUNTRY and are willing to die defending it based solely on your opinion that we should be in Iraq. I never proffered to politicize anything. That, however, is your sole reason for posting. Well, that and just trolling.I may not agree with Cindy Sheehan but I do understand why she feels the way she does. I can buy that. I can understand how she feels too. It is clear that you do not see the # 1 reason why people are upset with this war and that is: it is a war of choice, and one that they do not agree with and yet they and their loved ones are asked to sacrifice, and to even die for the opinions of others when they never signed up to do so. They did indeed sign up to do so...we have an ALL VOLUNTEER force. By the way, ALL wars are wars of choice. These men and women joined to defend their country and not die for your opinion and that is what you refuse to comprehend because doing so would require you to admit that you killed her son. I have killed plenty so don't think this little piece of crap rhetoric is going to make me feel bad. Again, you have no clue as to why men and women join the military.

Too bad you are not emporer of the universe, eh? Then maybe (but I doubt it) YOUR opinion would be the only one that counts! Until then, since I am indeed the Grand Emporer of the Universe, you will either have to submit to MY will or find someplace else to live!

By the way, you forgot to call me "asshole". Getting soft?

 

[Edward]

How about "my son died for his own opinion????

It is possible that Cindy Sheehan's son agreed with this war but it is a given that not every soldier does and that they are being asked to fight and to die for someone else's opinion. People who joined the military years before the war started have been asked to fight in a war of choice based on the opinion of people they disagree with. Generals are asked to command a war that they do not agree with and yet they do so just like soldiers fight because that is what they do when asked by the civilian government to fight. It is therefore a question that comes down to whether these people have the right to ask people to die for their opinion in a war of choice.

You don't deserve to be called "sane" but I bet you think you are.

You don't deserve to be called a good person but I bet you think you are but the reality is that you are an egocentric bastard who thinks his right to vote allows him to vote to take us into a war of choice based solely on an opinion. It doesn't matter that all Americans are asked to sacrifice, and even to fight and die in the war. It only matters that you can vote and have an opinion. If our soldiers or their families do not agree with your political beliefs and do not share your belief that it is okay to invade other countries that did not attack us than in your mind they must simply accept what you and those who agree with you believe and fight anyways or worst to leave the military they love and wish to serve in because they want to defend their rights, their family, their friends, their neighbors and their country. You are basically telling them to "fight and die for your opinion or get the fuck out of the military." The one reason no one is opposed to wars of defense is because we were attacked and therefore it makes sense to defend ourselves. This is why no one was opposed to the war in Afghanistan and why we had such overwhelming support for the war in Afghanistan. But when we invaded Iraq we lost that support because it was a war based solely on the opinion of those who felt we should invade Iraq even though it hadn't attacked us.

You are saying that people have no right to their opinion and no right to vote based on my opinion. that and are asserting that you KNOW how people feel. You truly are an idiot.

No, I am saying that they don't have the right to send our loved ones and us to fight for their opinion. People have every right to vote based on their opinion but when their opinion causes other people to die in a war of choice they have no right to claim this is a right they possess. Like Patrick Henry said, "My own line of reasoning is to myself as straight and clear as a ray of light. Not all the treasures of the world, so far as I believe, could have induced me to support an offensive war, for I think it murder; but if a thief breaks into my house, burns and destroys my property, and kills or threatens to kill me, or those that are in it, and to "bind me in all cases whatsoever" to his absolute will, am I to suffer it?" Simply put, this war was an offensive war and is inherently wrong. It cannot be justified but even if it could be justified it can never be claimed to be defensive so Americans should not be pulled into wars of offense based solely on the opinions of those who support the war.

 

[CSM]

It is possible that Cindy Sheehan's son agreed with this war but it is a given that not every soldier does and that they are being asked to fight and to die for someone else's opinion. What the heck does any other soldier's opinion/belief have to do with Cindy Sheehan's level of grief?People who joined the military years before the war started have been asked to fight in a war of choice based on the opinion of people they disagree with. They knew that was a possibility when they signed up. That is why we have a VOLUNTEER FORCE. And guess what, every soldier has the option of re-enlisting or not re-enlisting...it is their choice. Generals are asked to command a war that they do not agree with and yet they do so just like soldiers fight because that is what they do when asked by the civilian government to fight. Yeah, it's called loyalty, integrity, honor and committment...words you obviously don't understand. It is therefore a question that comes down to whether these people have the right to ask people to die for their opinion in a war of choice. That is called "democracy". I know, democracy is something you are vehemently opposed to.


You don't deserve to be called a good person Says you! but I bet you think you are but the reality is that you are an egocentric bastard who thinks his right to vote allows him to vote to take us into a war of choice based solely on an opinion. Yeah, aint it great! I win and you lose! It doesn't matter that all Americans are asked to sacrifice, and even to fight and die in the war. It only matters that you can vote and have an opinion. You are just so damn astute! I alkready told you that I am the Emporer of the Universe! If our soldiers or their families do not agree with your political beliefs and do not share your belief that it is okay to invade other countries that did not attack us than in your mind they must simply accept what you and those who agree with you believe and fight anyways or worst to leave the military they love and wish to serve in because they want to defend their rights, their family, their friends, their neighbors and their country. Again, you hit the nail on the head! It's all about choice with me. You are basically telling them to "fight and die for your opinion or get the fuck out of the military." Very good. Being the Emporer of the Universe allows me to have that kind of power ya know! The one reason no one is opposed to wars of defense is because we were attacked and therefore it makes sense to defend ourselves. This is why no one was opposed to the war in Afghanistan and why we had such overwhelming support for the war in Afghanistan. Really? Dang I missed the part where Afghanistan invaded the US. I bet is was fun too. But when we invaded Iraq we lost that support because it was a war based solely on the opinion of those who felt we should invade Iraq even though it hadn't attacked us. You are really starting to make me laugh...


No, I am saying that they don't have the right to send our loved ones and us to fight for their opinion. People have every right to vote based on their opinion but when their opinion causes other people to die in a war of choice they have no right to claim this is a right they possess. I suggest you write your Congressman and tell them to pass legislation allowing soldiers to pick and choose which opinion they will fight for. Be sure to submit your list of opinions with it so soldiers can opt to sign up for your piece of the military. Like Patrick Henry said, "My own line of reasoning is to myself as straight and clear as a ray of light. Not all the treasures of the world, so far as I believe, could have induced me to support an offensive war, for I think it murder; but if a thief breaks into my house, burns and destroys my property, and kills or threatens to kill me, or those that are in it, and to "bind me in all cases whatsoever" to his absolute will, am I to suffer it?" Yet for all his opinions, good old Patrick is DEAD! He did manage to enjoy the freedoms won by others though, didn't he! Simply put, this war was an offensive war and is inherently wrong. AH, so now we get to the crux of the matter. This is your OPINION succinctly stated. The only opinion that matters. Others are to live and die by YOUR opinion! It cannot be justified but even if it could be justified it can never be claimed to be defensive so Americans should not be pulled into wars of offense based solely on the opinions of those who support the war. And Americans should not be frozen into inaction based solely on the opnions of babbling idiots!

Man that was a great exchange! Aint it great how that works?