Christianity vs. Islam thread

[Nightwish]

You can open your mouth regarding rights when you stop treating women like trash.

Considering that it's only been in the last century or two that Christians have stopped treating women like trash and second-class citizens (not that there aren't plenty who still do), your statement rings pretty hollow.

 

[Said1]

Considering that it's only been in the last century or two that Christians have stopped treating women like trash and second-class citizens (not that there aren't plenty who still do), your statement rings pretty hollow.

And I heard the echo from your ramblings all the way up here in, Canada.

But seriously, how can you say that? The progress largely influenced by women's movements in the west can't be compaired to the influence of any women's movement in the Mid East. Really, you make me laugh. Ha. Ha. Ha.

 

[Nienna]

Considering that it's only been in the last century or two that Christians have stopped treating women like trash and second-class citizens (not that there aren't plenty who still do), your statement rings pretty hollow.

Jesus was the original feminist, showing mercy on women caught in adultery, speaking straight to women as if they *gasp* had minds and souls of their own, allowing women to listen to his teaching. All of which was unheard of at the time. And the church carried on this tradition by allowing women to not only listen to teaching, but to be teachers themselves. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28) Bet the men of that time period had a hard time wrapping their minds around that one!

Of course individuals still have the free will to treat others like trash if they so choose. And early "church fathers" like Martin Luther may have had a good grasp on some aspects of the Bible, but they surely misunderstood what Jesus intended for women.

I can't speak for the Qu'ran, but there can be no doubt Islamic countries treat women in general worse than "Christian" or Western countries.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Considering that it's only been in the last century or two that Christians have stopped treating women like trash and second-class citizens (not that there aren't plenty who still do), your statement rings pretty hollow.

Hey nightwish, you're pretty reasonable! NOT. LOL. OMG.

 

[Mariner]

to an adulterer, which is wonderful. And Islam deserves credit for being the first major religion to grant women property rights and divorce rights. Some of Muhammed's first converts were women, for this reason.

Just as with Christianity, later "fundamentalists" or "conservatives" made the original inspired vision less than it might have been--in Islam's case, a few generations after Muhammed, clergy started demanding that women be covered (this idea may, according to religioius historian Karen Armstrong, have come from the Eastern Christian church of all places), and Christianity ended up justifying the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the colonial destruction ("We have to destroy their culture to save their souls") of indigenous religons and cultures around the world.

I do believe that Christianity, overall, has been a force for good in the world, but its adherents have little reason for their frequent pompous self-congratulation. Doesn't Christianity say something about humility?

I wonder how many actual Muslims the people on this message board who are critical of Islam know?

Mariner.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

to an adulterer, which is wonderful. And Islam deserves credit for being the first major religion to grant women property rights and divorce rights. Some of Muhammed's first converts were women, for this reason.

Just as with Christianity, later "fundamentalists" or "conservatives" made the original inspired vision less than it might have been--in Islam's case, a few generations after Muhammed, clergy started demanding that women be covered (this idea may, according to religioius historian Karen Armstrong, have come from the Eastern Christian church of all places), and Christianity ended up justifying the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the colonial destruction ("We have to destroy their culture to save their souls") of indigenous religons and cultures around the world.

I do believe that Christianity, overall, has been a force for good in the world, but its adherents have little reason for their frequent pompous self-congratulation. Doesn't Christianity say something about humility?

I wonder how many actual Muslims the people on this message board who are critical of Islam know?

Mariner.

Christians today seek to convert by appealing to a person's mind, spirit and free will. God doesn't want souls coerced into believing in him. Your assertion that women's rights are more important in the muslim world is simply fallacious and wrong.

 

[Said1]

to an adulterer, which is wonderful. And Islam deserves credit for being the first major religion to grant women property rights and divorce rights. Some of Muhammed's first converts were women, for this reason.

Just as with Christianity, later "fundamentalists" or "conservatives" made the original inspired vision less than it might have been--in Islam's case, a few generations after Muhammed, clergy started demanding that women be covered (this idea may, according to religioius historian Karen Armstrong, have come from the Eastern Christian church of all places), and Christianity ended up justifying the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the colonial destruction ("We have to destroy their culture to save their souls") of indigenous religons and cultures around the world.

I do believe that Christianity, overall, has been a force for good in the world, but its adherents have little reason for their frequent pompous self-congratulation. Doesn't Christianity say something about humility?

I wonder how many actual Muslims the people on this message board who are critical of Islam know?

Mariner.

There are two different arguments going on here. One, from the Christian perspective, brought forth by Mom4. Then, there's mine, which is largley inspired by compairing both soceites, and how women are treated today. I think the conslusion drawn by compairing theocracies with western societies regarding the treatment of women today are fairly obvious, don't you...without the use of Biblical or Koranic verses?

 

[Nienna]

Actually, I was kind of wondering exactly what this thread was about, now. If I'm not mistaken, isn't this the combination of two threads started by Arabian? One asked how Jesus could die if He was God, and the other was about comparing human rights in Islamic vs. Christian countries.

So guys... what are we discussing? Just to clarify for my feeble little mind.

 

[Said1]

Actually, I was kind of wondering exactly what this thread was about, now. If I'm not mistaken, isn't this the combination of two threads started by Arabian? One asked how Jesus could die if He was God, and the other was about comparing human rights in Islamic vs. Christian countries.

So guys... what are we discussing? Just to clarify for my feeble little mind.

Hmmm, I'm disucssing the treatment of women in theocracies. I'm afraid this thread is waaaay off topic. Oh, well. No biggie.

 

[Nienna]

Hmmm, I'm disucssing the treatment of women in theocracies. I'm afraid this thread is waaaay off topic. Oh, well. No biggie.

Since we're way off topic, anyway... You're eye is psychedelic. I can't decide if I like it, or if I think it's creepy. I just keep staring...

 

[Said1]

Since we're way off topic, anyway... You're eye is psychedelic. I can't decide if I like it, or if I think it's creepy. I just keep staring...

It was probably lifted from a coloured contact lense ad. I like the yellowish brown shade.

 

[theHawk]

Please answer my question Arabian. I really want to know.

 

[Nightwish]

And I heard the echo from your ramblings all the way up here in, Canada.

But seriously, how can you say that? The progress largely influenced by women's movements in the west can't be compaired to the influence of any women's movement in the Mid East.

Ever heard of RAWA? They've had a huge impact in Afghanistan.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Ever heard of RAWA? They've had a huge impact in Afghanistan.

hahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahhahah, your joking, right?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Considering that it's only been in the last century or two that Christians have stopped treating women like trash and second-class citizens (not that there aren't plenty who still do), your statement rings pretty hollow.

Only the last century or two? ahhh, so how long does it have to be historically, before you will begin to acknowledge that "TODAY" we treat them quite well?

Does harsh treatment 200 years ago mean we cant be treating them better than other cultures today? Please inform me which culture it was that lead to the freedoms of women, Christian or Islam?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

to an adulterer, which is wonderful. And Islam deserves credit for being the first major religion to grant women property rights and divorce rights. Some of Muhammed's first converts were women, for this reason.

Just as with Christianity, later "fundamentalists" or "conservatives" made the original inspired vision less than it might have been--in Islam's case, a few generations after Muhammed, clergy started demanding that women be covered (this idea may, according to religioius historian Karen Armstrong, have come from the Eastern Christian church of all places), and Christianity ended up justifying the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the colonial destruction ("We have to destroy their culture to save their souls") of indigenous religons and cultures around the world.

I do believe that Christianity, overall, has been a force for good in the world, but its adherents have little reason for their frequent pompous self-congratulation. Doesn't Christianity say something about humility?

I wonder how many actual Muslims the people on this message board who are critical of Islam know?

Mariner.

You know what asshole, if you are gonna continuously criticize Christianity, why dont you get off your freaking ass and go out ot one of the local Christian charities and lend a hand. How about contributing to the thousands of missionaries who go round the world and dedicate their lives to feeding, clothing and educating third world children. Your little abode of perfect citizens in the uppernortheast GIVE LESS TO CHARITY than those southern states you turn your nose to.

Unless and untill you do some charity work yourself, you have no right to talk about what the Christians of this nation support. You are a first rate hypocrite, EXACLTY the person Jesus spoke of when he said, "do as they say, not as they do"

You sit on your ass typing out diatribes of hate while others I see that daily go to skid row and feed the homeless. I see CHRISTIANS who go to peoples houses and nurse them back to health, they spend sleepless nights helping an alcoholic to not go into convulsions, or they have their car vommited all over when we have to take them to the emergency room. Tell me about the Christians who founded alcoholics anonymous which has single handidly helped millions upon millions of people worldwide end the raviging disease of alcoholism. Its overwhelmingly Christian organizations that do the worlds charitable work, while you sit on your ass and read some books by a disgruntled nun and then proclaim how evil and hypocritical todays Christians are. You are the hypocrite.

 

[Nightwish]

Does harsh treatment 200 years ago mean we cant be treating them better than other cultures today?

No, but it means that using it as an aspersion against another culture, when your own was guilty of it for so long, rings hollow, not to mention hypocritical. You finally did come out of the dark ages and give women a lot more rights and a lot better treatment, and for that you do deserve a pat on your collective backs, but the better way to use that in cross-cultural relations would be to prop it up as an example of how things can change, not as leverage for a senseless insult of someone's culture and people.

Please inform me which culture it was that lead to the freedoms of women, Christian or Islam?

I'm not sure you really want me to answer that. I know how much you hate the Libs, so you would probably explode to have the very liberal Quakers pointed out to you! Actually, that would be funny to see!

LuvRPgrl -------->

 

[Nightwish]

You know what asshole, if you are gonna continuously criticize Christianity, why dont you get off your freaking ass and go out ot one of the local Christian charities and lend a hand. How about contributing to the thousands of missionaries who go round the world and dedicate their lives to feeding, clothing and educating third world children. Your little abode of perfect citizens in the uppernortheast GIVE LESS TO CHARITY than those southern states you turn your nose to.

Unless and untill you do some charity work yourself, you have no right to talk about what the Christians of this nation support. You are a first rate hypocrite, EXACLTY the person Jesus spoke of when he said, "do as they say, not as they do"

You sit on your ass typing out diatribes of hate while others I see that daily go to skid row and feed the homeless. I see CHRISTIANS who go to peoples houses and nurse them back to health, they spend sleepless nights helping an alcoholic to not go into convulsions, or they have their car vommited all over when we have to take them to the emergency room. Tell me about the Christians who founded alcoholics anonymous which has single handidly helped millions upon millions of people worldwide end the raviging disease of alcoholism. Its overwhelmingly Christian organizations that do the worlds charitable work, while you sit on your ass and read some books by a disgruntled nun and then proclaim how evil and hypocritical todays Christians are. You are the hypocrite.

He was making a point about humility. Your vitriole is unwarranted. I'm reminded of a truth.com commercial I saw tonight where a bunch of people are walking around with megaphones, doing a good deed, and broadcasting it to everyone. The message was that tobacco companies had given some $100,000 to charities, then spent several million dollars telling everyone about it. The moral is, if you're truly good, you don't have to advertise it, people will know on their own. What was it Jesus said about hiding it under a bushel?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

He was making a point about humility. Your vitriole is unwarranted. I'm reminded of a truth.com commercial I saw tonight where a bunch of people are walking around with megaphones, doing a good deed, and broadcasting it to everyone. The message was that tobacco companies had given some $100,000 to charities, then spent several million dollars telling everyone about it. The moral is, if you're truly good, you don't have to advertise it, people will know on their own. What was it Jesus said about hiding it under a bushel?

Thats why IM talking about others who do the Christian charitable deeds you dweeb.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

No, but it means that using it as an aspersion against another culture, when your own was guilty of it for so long, rings hollow, not to mention hypocritical. :

your opinion is duly noted. And when you get a degree in 'hypocritcal' acts then maybe your opinion would be worth more than nothing.

You finally did come out of the dark ages and give women a lot more rights and a lot better treatment, and for that you do deserve a pat on your collective backs, but the better way to use that in cross-cultural relations would be to prop it up as an example of how things can change, not as leverage for a senseless insult of someone's culture and people.:

I came out of the dark ages? hmmm, and to what heritage do you ascribe yourself to? or is mister wishy washy able to state something concrete for once? but you dodge the point. The point was that today< TODAY, christianity is far more civilized than Islam. Now, how do you use acts of 200 years ago to deny that?
ANSWER THE QUESTION.

I'm not sure you really want me to answer that. I know how much you hate the Libs, so you would probably explode to have the very liberal Quakers pointed out to you! Actually, that would be funny to see!

LuvRPgrl -------->

You think you could make me blow up??? hahahhahahahhahah, far tougher than you have tried and failed. Didnt you say something about humility a bit ago? :funnyface

soooooooooo, r u saying the quakers were Islamic?