Christianity vs. Islam thread

[Avatar4321]

No Wallahy
i do Believe In christianity ,,, true christianity ,,
but im trying to be the voice of logic,,, i know you will say
SHE THINK SHE IS BUT SHE IS NOT
anyway every one have the right to speak right bro
salam

I don't believe you understand true Christianity. Most people who claim to be Christian don't truely understand it. I am not sure I have a total grasp on it. When you deal with the eternities there are alot of subtle nuances taught by the Spirit that help you learn the truth. The fact is that eternal truths are incredibly layered and complex. There may be a principle as simple as faith, but the more you ponder it and understand its power, the more you realize its not as simple as you once thought.

But if you want Christianity boiled down its this:

Jesus Christ the Son of God suffered and died to atone for the sins of the world and rose on the third day. I know this is a fact because that is what the Spirit has taught me. You don't believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is the Gospel. Without the Atonement and resurrection there is no Christianity. If you don't believe that then you don't believe in Christianity. period.

Or if you want it boiled down even more: The Son of God became a man so that men could become the sons of God.

 

[Avatar4321]

are you trying to say that god may have an end??????????????

I have no idea where you could have come to the conclusion that he was saying God has an end.

What he is saying is that mortal man has limits on his ability to comprehend Eternity. (If I am misunderstanding then please correct me.) The fact is no man can understand the eternities unless the Spirit of God rests upon him. And even then our minds have problems completely understanding it.

But this is not so. Some day we will understand the Eternal plan of happiness from Eternity to Eternity. Most likely long after we have risen from the dead in the resurrection.

 

[Said1]

Lol ,, who said so
i wonder what the president of Andonisia Say about this ,,
she is a woman and president in a muslim Country in the same time,,,

In america have you seen president lady

Indonesia is a republic with a presidential system, NOT a theocracy.

If a women ran in any western country, worthy of being elected (like the UK for example) I'm 100% sure this would happen. Cananda had a female pm too. She lost at re-election though, she was a putz.

In any case, Megawati was not without her political connections either. Being the daughter of the first president probably afforded her luxuries, such as education and associations not spent on the majority of women living in that country. The strong Muslim opposition against her presidency may have something to do with her NOT getting re-elected, or she just sucked amid an economic crisis?

Women's Rights

Women's rights

Women in Indonesia still do not enjoy equal rights. There is strong reluctance and even resistance in certain segments of the society as well as among the political elite to codify and implement equal rights for women
and men. A positive step had been made in 2001 with the enactment of the National Action Plan for the Elimination of Violence against Women. However, provisions in this plan have been impinged upon by other pieces of legislation. In addition, with the new regional autonomy further discriminative and gender-biased regional and local legislation has been put in place. Women are furthermore especially prone to exploitation due to poverty and economical destitution. The majority of Indonesian migrant
workers is female, and thus also the vast majority of the illegal Indonesian migrant workers who had been deported from Malaysia in 2002 were women. Female migrant and illegal workers as well as industrial workers in Indonesia itself have increasingly fallen victim to sexualised abuse.
Women and also girls have increasingly been subject to women trafficking in 2002. Link

Here's another good one

Human Rights Watch Report: Child Workers


..

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Arabian and Confident are such liars. Who do they think they're fooling with this crap? Not us.

 

[Nienna]

I have to deliver cupcakes to an elementary school, so I only have time to make a general explanation of the Bible verses quoted above. In the first example, it is not God telling people this is the right thing to do; men did what was right in their own eyes. We have already been over that one.

The Zechariah quote is a prophecy, not a command.

I would have to look up the others. In general, it must be known that the Law was given to people because their hearts were hard. People refused to follow the leading of the Spirit of their own free will, so picky little rules were made. Like, today, I could be sued if my kids' ball kept rolling into the neighbor's yard. In a perfect world, I would try to respect his property, and make the kids do the same, and he wouldn't be such a jerk about a ball on his grass. But, since it happened, a hierarchy of rights had to be set up. His right to property trumps my kids' right to play where they want.

Many of the laws in the OT were actually made to PROTECT the women. Yeah, I wouldn't want to marry my rapist, either. But life was determined to be more important than sexual choice for a woman. If a man couldn't treat a woman as a cherished gift, someone to love, for whom to lift grateful praise to the Lord, as God created it in the beginning (see Genesis 2:18-24), he had to at least pledge to protect and provide for her.

Same with the conquering armies. Loyalty to the One True God was determined to trump land rights, and life. So the people who worshipped false gods were killed and driven off the land. Taking the virgins was an act of mercy. They were not killed. They were not brutally raped and left to die. They had to be protected and provided for, and given a chance to have offspring.

Again, these are not "best case" scenarios; it's not the way God wanted it. He created a paradise, where everyone worshipped Him, lived in safety, peace, and respect. Every person since then has screwed that up. These laws are not what God wanted. They are patch jobs, to make something better than it was.

Try quoting the New Testament if you want to see how God truly desires us to act.

 

[theHawk]

Where is the bad sox part I cant see it ,, and what in what you said say that we dont respect Jesus
and who told you we don't respect Jesus

Seeing how all of the Koran outright rejects everything Jesus taught, I would say that qualifies as not respecting him. Jesus said the only way into the Kingdom was through him. Mr. Ali comes along and says throw that out, the only guaranteed way to get in is through violence (jihad). You keep quoting the Koran as thought it were something meaningfull. Its nothing but a bunch of lies and trash spewed out by one man who claimed "Allah" told him all this shit. No one else to verify this. And I don't think Muhammed lead an exactly pious life that humans should follow. The way Jesus lived his life, what he said, and how he died is all well documented by many sources.

Wake up and flush that Koran down a toilet.

 

[Nienna]

to know about Jesus PBUH in Islam read this link
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...kAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996016390

and Mary
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...sh-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE


2) Yeah sure Allah created us all
3) I believe in resurrection
4) Allah created me with soul,, without my soul im nothing ,,,
Soul leave im just worthless body,,

by this Q u remind me the horror movies ,, where the devil soul search for a body to resign in ,,

Hopefully, I am not the devil in that scenario!

If you believe the body and soul are two separate things, can it really be so hard to understand that the body of Jesus was simply a container for the soul of God? I know you don't believe this is true, but can you understand that it could make sense, in another belief system?

 

[theHawk]

-another view ,, how about eve and Adam ,, Adam didnt have a father or amother and also eve does that mean that the God is the father and mother of Eve and Adam,,,
-another one,, god created you ,, created me me ,,, cant you believe that he could create Jesus without father,,,

God made man (Adam and Eve). In Christianity they say Jesus was "begotten , not made".

 

[kal-el]

I don't believe you understand true Christianity.

Uhh, I am well-versed on scripture, thanks.

Most people who claim to be Christian don't truely understand it.

Maybe so, that remains to be seen.

I am not sure I have a total grasp on it.

Ya think so?

When you deal with the eternities there are alot of subtle nuances taught by the Spirit that help you learn the truth. The fact is that eternal truths are incredibly layered and complex. There may be a principle as simple as faith, but the more you ponder it and understand its power, the more you realize its not as simple as you once thought.

Wow, alot of wishful thinking, not a shred of empiracal evidence.

But if you want Christianity boiled down its this:

I thought you said you weren't sure you have a grasp on it? O, geese, the blind leading the blind here.

Jesus Christ the Son of God suffered and died to atone for the sins of the world and rose on the third day. I know this is a fact because that is what the Spirit has taught me

Hahahaha, you have no proof for this facinating claim. Your being less than honest here.

. You don't believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is the Gospel.

Dude, noone who wrote about Jesus, were alive in his lifetime. The Gospel's aren't proof of anything.

Without the Atonement and resurrection there is no Christianity.

No, without the "Satan" myth there is no Christianity. If there's no price for not following god, why follow him?

If you don't believe that then you don't believe in Christianity. period.

Wow, for someone who admittingly dosen't have a full grasp on it, you sure like to act like you do.

Or if you want it boiled down even more: The Son of God became a man so that men could become the sons of God.

Hahahaha, another preposterous claim. I dare you to provide evidence, thanks.

 

[manu1959]

Dude, noone who wrote about Jesus, were alive in his lifetime. The Gospel's aren't proof of anything.

ok who is with me on this one?

on how many different levels is this sentance proof that darwinisim does not exist?

show of hands



thought so

$5 says the little kitty says something he thinks is pithy

 

[kal-el]

ok who is with me on this one?

on how many different levels is this sentance proof that darwinisim does not exist?

show of hands



thought so

$5 says the little kitty says something he thinks is pithy

How, pray tell, is saying the Gospels aren't completely true, proof of evolution's non-existence? But I suppose you believe that the plants were created before the sun?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Uhh, I am well-versed on scripture, thanks..

then why do you ask so many questions.?

Maybe so, that remains to be seen..

Actually, since most who claim to be Christian, arent (Jesus said so, not me) then probably most dont understand it.

Ya think so?.

But probably a better grasp than you have.

Wow, alot of wishful thinking, not a shred of empiracal evidence..

Empiracal evidence isnt the only thing we use to understand "truths".

I thought you said you weren't sure you have a grasp on it? O, geese, the blind leading the blind here..

How do you go from "not totally having a grasp on it" to not knowing what it boils down to?

Hahahaha, you have no proof for this facinating claim. Your being less than honest here..

There is plenty of proof. You just choose to ignore it. Some think there is no proof we landed on the moon either.

Dude, noone who wrote about Jesus, were alive in his lifetime. The Gospel's aren't proof of anything..

Paul wasnt alive at the time of Jesus? Hmmmmmmm

No, without the "Satan" myth there is no Christianity. If there's no price for not following god, why follow him?.

I see, and you always speak of empirical evidence, where is yours?
You always speak in double negatives?

Wow, for someone who admittingly dosen't have a full grasp on it, you sure like to act like you do..

Uh, did he say he doesnt understand ANY of it? Clue, you can understand PARTS of something, and yet not fully understand it. OK? Its basic logic.

Hahahaha, another preposterous claim. I dare you to provide evidence, thanks.

Oh, the proof is there, and you know it, you just again, ignore it.
IF you are so confident in your "bitter" beliefs, why do you have to go and try to prove what a great debater you are and what nit wits Christians are? The only stupid thing in all this is anyone actually believes any of your questions have any,and I MEAN ANY sincerity about them.
Loser.

 

[Avatar4321]

How, pray tell, is saying the Gospels aren't completely true, proof of evolution's non-existence? But I suppose you believe that the plants were created before the sun?

I think he was taking a jab at you. Obviously you didn't get it. But then I think that might have been his point.

The fact of the matter is that Jesus lives. Its up to you whether you want to believe it. But you don't have to take my word for it. Just seek the Lord for yourself and He will be more than happy to share it with you.

 

[Avatar4321]

Paul wasnt alive at the time of Jesus? Hmmmmmmm

Paul didn't write one of the Gospels. The four Gospels were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Matthew and John were called to the Twelve by Jesus. They certainly were alive with He was mortal.

Luke went to all the first hand sources for his account. It is said he interviewed Christ's mother quite a bit. Obviously if she was still around he couldn't have done this too long after Christ died.

As for Mark, it doesn't matter if he was alive during Christ's time or not. All that matter is that He was alive during Peter's life. Because Mark through tradition was Peter's Secretary and giving Peter's account of the Lord's mortal ministry.

Regardless, Clarky is making an argument from silence. Its one of the weakest arguments out there. So I don't really care. The Spirit says otherwise.

 

[kal-el]

then why do you ask so many questions.?

You are being less than honest with everyone. I am willing to bet I am as well versed in scripture as you are.

Actually, since most who claim to be Christian, arent (Jesus said so, not me) then probably most dont understand it.

I understand Christianity perfectly, I used to be a christian. What really gets to me is why base an entire religion on someone whom you cannot prove existed?

But probably a better grasp than you have.

That's good you wrote "probably". Or else you would be spouting off deceptive claims.

Empiracal evidence isnt the only thing we use to understand "truths".

O, right, right. You're "because I say so, because a book says so" blind postulation.

How do you go from "not totally having a grasp on it" to not knowing what it boils down to?

Uhh, unless I'm stevie wonder, I'm seeing that he wrote "this is what Chrisitianity boils down to".

There is plenty of proof.

Where? You're being dishonest, and that is an integrity issue.

You just choose to ignore it.

I only ignore random bible quotes, the bible proves nothing. Try again. Hows about your skydaddy show his grill to everyone as to end all doubt?

Some think there is no proof we landed on the moon either.

Yes, but there's actual facts to back it up that we landed on the moon. http://www.look-to-the-skies.com/moon_landings_were_real.htm I don't recall seeing actual facts to prove the existence of god, do you?

Paul wasnt alive at the time of Jesus? Hmmmmmmm

Uhh, last time I checked Paul's name wasn't included in the gospels. Matthew, Mark, Luke, john. Where do you see the name Paul? Anywyaz, even though he might have been alive, he's not mentioned at all during Jesus's lifetime. In fact, Paul and Peter were heading the early church. Paul and others made missionary journeies in which they would spread the "good news" After 3 journeies, I believe Paul was placed on house arrest, where he could organize at home, but eventually he was killed.

I see, and you always speak of empirical evidence, where is yours?
You always speak in double negatives?

That's a rather circular argument. Of course I don't have empiracal evidence disproving god, you're being rather ignorant here.

Uh, did he say he doesnt understand ANY of it? Clue, you can understand PARTS of something, and yet not fully understand it. OK? Its basic logic.

Ok, here's the quote:

I am not sure I have a total grasp on it.

I believe he implies that he does not have a full grasp on it, understand it.

Oh, the proof is there,

O man, this dishonesty streak continues.

and you know it, you just again, ignore it.

All you have is the bible, 11 lines from a Jewish historian, and Christian hearsay. That is far from proof.

IF you are so confident in your "bitter" beliefs, why do you have to go and try to prove what a great debater you are and what nit wits Christians are?

What, I thought this was a public forum? Am I forbiden from expressing my views?

The only stupid thing in all this is anyone actually believes any of your questions have any,and I MEAN ANY sincerity about them.
Loser.

Huh? Please form coherent frameworks, so you don't look stupid, thanks.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Uhh, unless I'm stevie wonder, I'm seeing that he wrote "this is what Chrisitianity boils down to".

Huh? Please form coherent frameworks, so you don't look stupid, thanks.

Listen little boy. Im not gonna get into a line by line debate with you, because you havent even shown the ability to follow simple logic.

Let me spell it out for you.

A person can understand a PART of something, without totally grasping the entire concept.

Most people understand a little about gravity, but they dont understand all of it.
Hence, I can say, I "DONT TOTALLY GRASP GRAVITY" and then go on to say, gravity is a force whereby an object the size of the earth pulls smaller objects that are close enough to it, towards it.

Now, by your reasoning, you would come back with "but I thought you said you dont totally grasp gravity?"

The poster said he doesnt TOTALLY GRASP CHRISTIANITY, then he stated a part of it he does grasp.

Then YOU idiotically retorted with, "but you said you dont grasp Christianity"

Until you can grasp this concept of deduction, then I will have to assume you dont have a full grasp of the concept of logical deductions.

Now run along little boy and feel proud thinking you won another debate, when all you really did was babble on so much that you onlly proved you have more time to WASTE on nonsense than others do.

 

[Arabian]

Seeing how all of the Koran outright rejects everything Jesus taught, I would say that qualifies as not respecting him. Jesus said the only way into the Kingdom was through him. Mr. Ali comes along and says throw that out, the only guaranteed way to get in is through violence (jihad). You keep quoting the Koran as thought it were something meaningfull. Its nothing but a bunch of lies and trash spewed out by one man who claimed "Allah" told him all this shit. No one else to verify this. And I don't think Muhammed lead an exactly pious life that humans should follow. The way Jesus lived his life, what he said, and how he died is all well documented by many sources.

Wake up and flush that Koran down a toilet.

is that what Bible say to tell Jokes about other mesages,,
and where that crap your saying that Qur'an contain it about Jesus,,
In qur'an allah gave Jesus and all prophet the message,, so by logic even if you didnt read Qur'an ,, allah wont say in his book bad things about the messenger and message he had sent,, so rest your self and dont keep saying crap,,
and call us liars
Qur'an sura 33 verse 7
[7] And remember We took from the Prophets their Covenant: as (We did) from thee: from Nuh, Ibrahim, Musa, and 'Isa the son of Maryam: We took from them a solemn Covenant:

 

[Said1]

is that what Bible say to tell Jokes about other mesages,,
and where that crap your saying that Qur'an contain it about Jesus,,
In qur'an allah gave Jesus and all prophet the message,, so by logic even if you didnt read Qur'an ,, allah wont say in his book bad things about the messenger and message he had sent,, so rest your self and dont keep saying crap,,
and call us liars
Qur'an sura 33 verse 7
[7] And remember We took from the Prophets their Covenant: as (We did) from thee: from Nuh, Ibrahim, Musa, and 'Isa the son of Maryam: We took from them a solemn Covenant:

Claiming Jesus is a profit, to Chrisitans in itself is "not good".

 

[Arabian]

Hopefully, I am not the devil in that scenario!

me too

If you believe the body and soul are two separate things, can it really be so hard to understand that the body of Jesus was simply a container for the soul of God? I know you don't believe this is true, but can you understand that it could make sense, in another belief system?

In science there is something called living and non-living,,,
Living eat drink grow and luxuriate
But god isn’t living or nonliving,,,
So if we said that he is living ' cause he luxuriate (Jesus is his son)' ,, that mean that he have a start and some one is his father,,, cause who gave birth he should at 1st some one born him,,, and if he became from the living ,, then he should end ,,,

If he luxuriate that mean that he is a human ,, and this is impossible

i see you didnt read this part well

-if god is living he could be reproduced and have a soul ,, but he isnt cause only living could be luxuriate, and we all know our mind cant know the main reality and existance of God
-and if i believed that ,, we will came to the same point who is his mother cause mary is ahuman and the god is not,, and you said that mary only hold him and he isnt his mother,,

-another point if jesus is the son of god then the god is son of whom,,,
if we thought that jesus is the son of god that will leadus to believe that the god is a creature and he had once a father too

-last point if i believed that i should believe any one came to me with no father and told me im the son of god,,
and also believe in krishna in hinduism,, he is the same as Jesus and trinty ,, they say in hinduism about krishna as you say about Jesus the son of god,, which one is the true story
read the link
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr.htm

 

[manu1959]

How, pray tell, is saying the Gospels aren't completely true, proof of evolution's non-existence? But I suppose you believe that the plants were created before the sun?

first off, you didn't say that the gospels are not complety true you said that no one wrote of jesus during jesus' lifetime, your exact quote being " Dude, noone who wrote about Jesus, were alive in his lifetime. The Gospel's aren't proof of anything."

second, by saying that the gospels are not completey true then you aknowledge that they are partly true.

and finally, darwinism is survival of the fitest and given the quality of your logic and posts i am starting to question darwinisim as it applies to you.