Chinese drones can destroy f-35 in seconds?

[Vrenn]

Spoofing and "frying" radars at 100 miles are two different thing.

You "can't" burn out an enemies RADAR receivers (which is what "fry" means) without them knowing about it.

WW

You already lost this one with your "Once Upon a Time" story.

 

[WorldWatcher]

You already lost this one with your "Once Upon a Time" story.

I was an Aviation Electronics Technician in the US Navy for 20 years working on and flying in E-2, EP-2E, and ES-3 aircaft for 20 years.

So explain how an aircraft is supposed to "fry" a RADAR from a 100 miles away and the system operators NOT know that their RADAR has been "fried"?

You send a RF signal strong enough to "fry" my receiver and I'm goin to know about it.

WW

 

[Crepitus]

Somehow I don't think that's true.

Musk Again Attacks F-35 Fighters; Says Chinese Swarm Drones Can Destroy Manned Jets In Seconds

Fresh salvos have been fired in the Elon Musk vs F-35 war even as the aircraft maker Lockheed Martin, after losing out on the contract to build the US Air Force’s 6th generation fighter jet, vowed to upgrade the 5th generation F-35 Lightning II with 6th generation technology. Tech czar Musk has...

www.eurasiantimes.com

I know we have some pretty savvy military people here.... can someone comment on this please?
Is it possibly true?

Jo

Elmo is just pissed he didn't get the contract to build all those drones.

You know how billionaires get when they can't bilk you for more money.

 

[Vrenn]

I was an Aviation Electronics Technician in the US Navy for 20 years working on and flying in E-2, EP-2E, and ES-3 aircaft for 20 years.

So explain how an aircraft is supposed to "fry" a RADAR from a 100 miles away and the system operators NOT know that their RADAR has been "fried"?

You send a RF signal strong enough to "fry" my receiver and I'm goin to know about it.

WW

I never said that you wouldn't be aware when your radar and detection systems degrades from being hit with the defense from the F-35. Stop gas lighting.

BTW, I spent over 20 years in the Air Force and the WW had some of those features way back to the end of Vietnam. They blinded the radars where they could not be used. Now, take that same system to today and the WW (All F-35A and C are WW Capable) and you get the capability to physically harm the radar system.

Not one of the birds you "Claim" to have supported were Wild Weazels. If you are willing to learn something about no weapon onboard Wild Weazels, study up on the EF-111 Raven. It's whole job was to fly ahead of the other birds and jam all the radars both in the air and on the ground.

In order to find a similar equiv to the F-16CJR you wouldn't use the birds you say you supported. You would use the EF-18G which is a newer aircraft. Like the F-16, the EF-18 carried offensive weapons for attacking ground targets and air targets. Yah, you knew he was there but since your radar is worthless, you don't have a clue to where.

The Raven and the F-35 both don't need to use offensive weapons for attacking the enemies radar. The main reason the EF-111 Raven could be so effective is that it's the size of a medium bomber and could carry not only modified pods from the EF-18G but even more. The problem with the EF-18G is not only size but it couldn't develop the electricity to power any more than it already had. The EF-111 is bigger and has more powerful engines.

The F-35 breaks all the rules you keep saying is the absolute law. It's not the electricity that limits the output but the heat that using that kind of power generates. Block 4 is supposed to take care of that along with a bigger, more powerful engine. It's designed to negate enemy radars either by jamming them or by physically damaging them. And yes, you may be very aware that he doing things like that but since it's happening to you you have no way to determine is exact location. And he's doing it past your own detection and weapons range.

If you think that it's not dangerous to be around a Raven firing up his systems, 100 feet away and behind him, he will still make you tremble and stand your hair on end. The F-35 is even more powerful.

 

[Zavulon]

You are just gumming your jaws on this one. The WZ will need to be within 14 miles of the F-35.

Of course not. WZ-9 can see F-35 at distance 350 km in frontal sector and 1,800 km in the rear sector.

But the F-35A will see them at over 100 miles and will be able to get a little closer and fry the Radar of the WZ.

If they turn on their radars - they are visible at very large distance. And S-70 has longer arm.
And no, F-35 can't (just because physical reasons) "fry" the radars - especially at large distances.

Hate to break it to you but the F-35A and C are used as AWACS as well by other aircraft.

They can be used as ersatz-AWACS, not as real AWACS. They physically can't emmite that amount of energy or has computers as good. Whats is more important - if you have real AWACS, you can guide F-35s without turning their own radars on, and save stealth advantage. If you don't have AWACS (or the Reds shoot it down at the very beginning of the game) F-35 has no other option but turn on their radars and became pretty visible for anyone really interested, and lose stealth advantage while S-70s, guided by WZ-9, are still invisible for F-35 and can launch their missiles from the larger distance.

The drones will lose to the 4 gen fighters the F-35 will direct in.

For what reason? S-70 has better radars and better missiles than 4 gen fighters.

Hell, they might even vector in A-10Cs.

Hey, if it comes to it, China might use hundreds of MiG-21s (J-7s) in drone mode. Good luck to shoot them all down.

 

[Vrenn]

Of course not. WZ-9 can see F-35 at distance 350 km in frontal sector and 1,800 km in the rear sector.

This sounds much like the same method of the Chinese Carrier Killer Missile.

If they turn on their radars - they are visible at very large distance. And S-70 has longer arm.
And no, F-35 can't (just because physical reasons) "fry" the radars - especially at large distances.

Your one engine doesn't have the power to power all those things you claim the S-70 can do. Busted.

They can be used as ersatz-AWACS, not as real AWACS. They physically can't emmite that amount of energy or has computers as good. Whats is more important - if you have real AWACS, you can guide F-35s without turning their own radars on, and save stealth advantage. If you don't have AWACS (or the Reds shoot it down at the very beginning of the game) F-35 has no other option but turn on their radars and became pretty visible for anyone really interested, and lose stealth advantage while S-70s, guided by WZ-9, are still invisible for F-35 and can launch their missiles from the larger distance.

You used the word GAME. You are busted.

For what reason? S-70 has better radars and better missiles than 4 gen fighters.


Hey, if it comes to it, China might use hundreds of MiG-21s (J-7s) in drone mode. Good luck to shoot them all down.

Bring it on, Honaan.

 

[Zavulon]

This sounds much like the same method of the Chinese Carrier Killer Missile.

We'll see.

Your one engine doesn't have the power to power all those things you claim the S-70 can do. Busted.

It has the same engine and, as far as I know, the same radar, as Su-57. In some way, one could say, that S-70 is unmanned version of Su-57.

You used the word GAME. You are busted.

Of course we are talking about games. In real life, after the preliminary calculations, the USA won't dare to fight against China over Taiwan (or China won't dare to fight America over Taiwan without obvious and clear superiority). Say nothing about numerous Chinese assets in the upper echelons of American power.

 

[Vrenn]

We'll see.



It has the same engine and, as far as I know, the same radar, as Su-57. In some way, one could say, that S-70 is unmanned version of Su-57.

Yes, and the two prototypes is using the same engine the su-57 is and that engine comes from the su-27 family. The AL-41 has yet to go into production.

Of course we are talking about games. In real life, after the preliminary calculations, the USA won't dare to fight against China over Taiwan (or China won't dare to fight America over Taiwan without obvious and clear superiority). Say nothing about numerous Chinese assets in the upper echelons of American power.

Well, don't expect the S-70 to do any real damage since it's in the prototype stage and only 2 exist.

 

[Zavulon]

Yes, and the two prototypes is using the same engine the su-57 is and that engine comes from the su-27 family. The AL-41 has yet to go into production.

AL-41 was in production from the very beginning (first stage engine) . AL-51F1 (second stage engine) is in production since 2024. All new Su-57 and S-70 (as far as I know there more than two of them - four or six were build and one lost) are going to be equipped with them.

Well, don't expect the S-70 to do any real damage since it's in the prototype stage and only 2 exist.

First, you are not going to start Battle for Taiwan right now, right? Second - S-70 (as well as Su-57) are now actually using in Ukraine, you know - like battle-testing. Third - China has its own drones with Air-to-Air capabilities.

 

[Vrenn]

AL-41 was in production from the very beginning (first stage engine) . AL-51F1 (second stage engine) is in production since 2024. All new Su-57 and S-70 (as far as I know there more than two of them - four or six were build and one lost) are going to be equipped with them.

There are only 2 flying. More on that later.

First, you are not going to start Battle for Taiwan right now, right? Second - S-70 (as well as Su-57) are now actually using in Ukraine, you know - like battle-testing. Third - China has its own drones with Air-to-Air capabilities.

You don't fight wars with wishes. You leave the dance with the fat lady that brung ya'.

 

[Zavulon]

There are only 2 flying. More on that later.

It was told, that Su-57 was actually tested with four S-70 [more or less] independently firing air to air missiles at actual air targets by its pilot's commands.
And now they are on serial production.
May be your sources are better than mine.

You don't fight wars with wishes. You leave the dance with the fat lady that brung ya'.

Yeah. The actual capabilities are important. Especially actual economic capabilities. And if it comes to the "exchanging by conventional air and missile strikes" fighting by CPR, augmented with some RF proxy forces with Su-57 and S-70s and KMT and TPP (blue coalition) spy/sabotage networks on Taiwan) from one side and DPP (green coalition) in RoC (augmented by the US forces with F-35s without AWACS and drones) - highly likely Taiwan (and the USA) will be conventionally defeated.

 

[Vrenn]

It was told, that Su-57 was actually tested with four S-70 [more or less] independently firing air to air missiles at actual air targets by its pilot's commands.
And now they are on serial production.
May be your sources are better than mine.


Yeah. The actual capabilities are important. Especially actual economic capabilities. And if it comes to the "exchanging by conventional air and missile strikes" fighting by CPR, augmented with some RF proxy forces with Su-57 and S-70s and KMT and TPP (blue coalition) spy/sabotage networks on Taiwan) from one side and DPP (green coalition) in RoC (augmented by the US forces with F-35s without AWACS and drones) - highly likely Taiwan (and the USA) will be conventionally defeated.

Why not ask the last hundreds of Russian Soldiers that attack a weaker US Force in Syria. After only a few minutes, the Russian Forces lost over 300 and disengaged to keep from losing the rest of their force. And don't bother with the Cite, Cite crap. It was big news awhile back. The Russians were met with a well trained and equipped smaller force that kick the russian assses.

As for not having AWACS, the US has more AWACS than all the other countries put together.

You keep bringing in Russia into the fight. You should be only using the Chinese forces who would be committing suicide if they attack Taiwan.

 

[Zavulon]

Why not ask the last hundreds of Russian Soldiers that attack a weaker US Force in Syria. After only a few minutes, the Russian Forces lost over 300 and disengaged to keep from losing the rest of their force. And don't bother with the Cite, Cite crap. It was big news awhile back. The Russians were met with a well trained and equipped smaller force that kick the russian assses.

Light equipped mercenaries fighting against well-armed and prepared regular forces? The result was predictable. Like what happened with many American "mercenaries" in Ukraine and other palces.

As for not having AWACS, the US has more AWACS than all the other countries put together.

But will you put, say, three AWACS on Taiwan? Or will you need them? I mean if the topic of discussion is "how good are F-35s in repelling potentional Chinese anti-separatist operation on Taiwan?" the answer is clear - "Without AWACS they are definitely dead meat, with AWACS they may have chances to resist for some time".

You keep bringing in Russia into the fight.

Actually, it is American government who is forcing Russia to fight America whereever there is a conflict.
But anyway, without Russian support PRC won't dare to fight RoC, backed with the USA.
So, if Taiwan is backed with the USA, China is backed with Russians.

You should be only using the Chinese forces who would be committing suicide if they attack Taiwan.

If Russia is really and totally neutral, amount and quality of drones China has is more or less irrelevant, for the USA still can easily, and relatively safe, raise the stakes up to the nuclear level.

 

[Vrenn]

Light equipped mercenaries fighting against well-armed and prepared regular forces? The result was predictable. Like what happened with many American "mercenaries" in Ukraine and other palces.

Those mercs are from all over the globe. Not just the US. You either sell the rest of the world short or you sell yourselves long.

But will you put, say, three AWACS on Taiwan? Or will you need them? I mean if the topic of discussion is "how good are F-35s in repelling potentional Chinese anti-separatist operation on Taiwan?" the answer is clear - "Without AWACS they are definitely dead meat, with AWACS they may have chances to resist for some time".

AWACs are all inflight refueling capable. They don't need to be stationed in Taiwan. They can also fly out of Japan, the Phillipines, and a lot of other places. Just because you Ruskies don't have that capability doesn't mean the US doesn't either.

Actually, it is American government who is forcing Russia to fight America whereever there is a conflict.
But anyway, without Russian support PRC won't dare to fight RoC, backed with the USA.
So, if Taiwan is backed with the USA, China is backed with Russians.

How Trumpist you sound. It's always the other person that is doing what you are doing so you blame them.

If Russia is really and totally neutral, amount and quality of drones China has is more or less irrelevant, for the USA still can easily, and relatively safe, raise the stakes up to the nuclear level.

The US won't try and actually win that battle. They will just make sure that China goes back to the earlier Dinasty.

 

[Zavulon]

Those mercs are from all over the globe. Not just the US. You either sell the rest of the world short or you sell yourselves long.

As if Wagner group are all from Russian Federation. Actually, most of them, in time, were from Donbass, which, officially was a part of Ukraine.

AWACs are all inflight refueling capable. They don't need to be stationed in Taiwan. They can also fly out of Japan, the Phillipines, and a lot of other places. Just because you Ruskies don't have that capability doesn't mean the US doesn't either.

Russians have it, but it's not the question. The question is - do you need both AWACS and F-35 to fight red drones, or F-35s only are sufficient?
The answer is simple: "F-35s only (without AWACS) vs WZ-9 + An Jian + S-70 are definitely dead meat. F-35s + AWACS vs WZ-9+ An Jian (without S-70s) is gambling, mostly depending on tactics, intelligence, wider military, political and economical environment and, of course, amount of F-35s and AWACS you are ready to sacrifice for this battle.

How Trumpist you sound. It's always the other person that is doing what you are doing so you blame them.

No. There are two possible ways. Cooperation and confrontation. It was the USA who have choose confrontation. Of course you can choose Cooperation and nuke London, Brussel and Berlin, and in this scenario you can expect that Russia won't be involved (at least officially) in Taiwan conflict. But in all realistic scenarios Russia is involved (from covert facilitation to the open and direct participation).

The US won't try and actually win that battle. They will just make sure that China goes back to the earlier Dinasty.

You can't do it. Especially if we are playing a realistic scenario and Russia is directly involved.

 

[Vrenn]

As if Wagner group are all from Russian Federation. Actually, most of them, in time, were from Donbass, which, officially was a part of Ukraine.

Sure, and what else were the Dumbass people supposed to do for Vodka? With the Russians taking control, industry pretty well died out.

Russians have it, but it's not the question. The question is - do you need both AWACS and F-35 to fight red drones, or F-35s only are sufficient?

You may not need it but the US does out of luxury. And you are using a whatif against reality once again. Both China and Russia can't put enough air to air attack drones to bother a flight of cessnas.

The answer is simple: "F-35s only (without AWACS) vs WZ-9 + An Jian + S-70 are definitely dead meat. F-35s + AWACS vs WZ-9+ An Jian (without S-70s) is gambling, mostly depending on tactics, intelligence, wider military, political and economical environment and, of course, amount of F-35s and AWACS you are ready to sacrifice for this battle.

Again, there aren't enough to even bother worrying about. Your whatif scenerio doesn't exist. And you keep inflating the fantasy ability way past it's prime.

No. There are two possible ways. Cooperation and confrontation. It was the USA who have choose confrontation. Of course you can choose Cooperation and nuke London, Brussel and Berlin, and in this scenario you can expect that Russia won't be involved (at least officially) in Taiwan conflict. But in all realistic scenarios Russia is involved (from covert facilitation to the open and direct participation).


You can't do it. Especially if we are playing a realistic scenario and Russia is directly involved.

You keep presenting a whatif as if it were reality. It's not real. You keep making the claim you can target the F-35 but it's just not happening.

As if Wagner group are all from Russian Federation. Actually, most of them, in time, were from Donbass, which, officially was a part of Ukraine.

Not long after the Russians took control of the Donbass region it's manufacturing almost dried up.

Russians have it, but it's not the question. The question is - do you need both AWACS and F-35 to fight red drones, or F-35s only are sufficient?

Hey, if it's paid for, we use it. You will never face just the F-35 by itself. You will also have the F-22, F-15 and the European fighters. Plus, the bombers with their stand off weapons hitting your runways, factories, military bases, transportation and more.

Meanwhile, the F-35As are going to be taking your few SU-35s and 57s out leaving the older, less capable Russian Fighters (yes we lump in china on this one) to face hundreds of really decent NATO equipment. And add to the fact, the entire NATO is much better trained.

The answer is simple: "F-35s only (without AWACS) vs WZ-9 + An Jian + S-70 are definitely dead meat. F-35s + AWACS vs WZ-9+ An Jian (without S-70s) is gambling, mostly depending on tactics, intelligence, wider military, political and economical environment and, of course, amount of F-35s and AWACS you are ready to sacrifice for this battle.

A real fighter against your Smoke Screened whatif drones? I'll bet on the real deal.

No. There are two possible ways. Cooperation and confrontation. It was the USA who have choose confrontation. Of course you can choose Cooperation and nuke London, Brussel and Berlin, and in this scenario you can expect that Russia won't be involved (at least officially) in Taiwan conflict. But in all realistic scenarios Russia is involved (from covert facilitation to the open and direct participation).

Russia can't even defeat a 3rd rate country. China couldn't even defeat the battle torn Vietnam. Guess you haven't had enough of having your ass handed to you.

You can't do it. Especially if we are playing a realistic scenario and Russia is directly involved.

 

[Mac-7]

Like so many times previously… when a country like Russia or China claim to be developing a state of the art capability, the system that is ultimately deployed is anything but.

Russia has talented engineers on a limited budget

China has lots of engineers but lacking in talent

They cant field a next generation anything till they steal the technology from the US

 

[Vrenn]

Like so many times previously… when a country like Russia or China claim to be developing a state of the art capability, the system that is ultimately deployed is anything but.

Russia has talented engineers on a limited budget

China has lots of engineers but lacking in talent

They cant field a next generation anything till they steal the technology from the US

Are you saying that NATOs Real Military will get it's ass handed to it by the Fantasy Red Alliance?

 

[Mac-7]

Are you saying that NATOs Real Military will get it's ass handed to it by the Fantasy Red Alliance?

No

The russian military is not very good

But given enough money russian scientists could compete with the west in many areas

Thankfully they dont have the money

 

[Vrenn]

No

The russian military is not very good

But given enough money russian scientists could compete with the west in many areas

Thankfully they dont have the money

From my days, the Russians don't even give their new troops enough clothing. Even if they did, the NCOs would just take it for themselves for their own use or trade value. And that corruption doesn't get any better as you go up the ranks. How the devil can you send in a combat group into northern Europe when the lower ranks had their cold weather clothing taken from them.

If I were in such a unit, my outlook would be almost zero. And then they would send me into combat without even enough bullets to do any good.