Catch 22

[Unkotare]

It has become difficult to even discuss the problem of illegal immigration because each side has defined the other in categorical, untenable terms. Any mention of immigration reform has become "amnesty!" and is summarily dismissed accordingly. Any mention of the need for border control and respect for America's sovereignty has become " hateful, racist xenophobia!" and is summarily dismissed accordingly.

How to even talk about the issue under such conditions?

 

[Ravi]

No one in power wants to discuss it for the most part because it is a convenient wedge issue in elections.

 

[Flopper]

No one in power wants to discuss it for the most part because it is a convenient wedge issue in elections.

I believe the only people qualified to provide the information needed to create real immigration reform are people enforcing the law and those who deal with illegal immigrants on a daily basis. Most of the people who debate the issue don't know what they're talking about, just repeating what political hacks create, distort, and fabricate.

 

[Unkotare]

...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“How to even talk about the issue under such conditions?”

Address the issue in its appropriate legal context, since this is a matter involving the law, with the acknowledgment of fundamental facts of Constitutional jurisprudence, accepted, settled, and beyond dispute:

That all persons in the United Stats are entitled to due process, including those undocumented

That one is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, including those accused of entering the country absent authorization

That one is not 'illegal' until such time as he has been adjudicated guilty of a crime

That one may not be subject to punitive measures pending a final determination of his immigration status

And that the government is entitled to the use of prosecutorial discretion as an appropriate and lawful means by which to allocate limited resources

These facts illustrate why immigration reform legislation is the appropriate resolution to the issue – it affords those undocumented their right to due process and it provides for lawful and appropriate punitive measures.

 

[williepete]

Joseph Heller is rolling in his grave.

 

[Publius1787]

It has become difficult to even discuss the problem of illegal immigration because each side has defined the other in categorical, untenable terms. Any mention of immigration reform has become "amnesty!" and is summarily dismissed accordingly. Any mention of the need for border control and respect for America's sovereignty has become " hateful, racist xenophobia!" and is summarily dismissed accordingly.

How to even talk about the issue under such conditions?

How is it hateful or racist? Do you know how long the immigration wait is for a brother or a sister to come over from Mexico or the Philippines? 20-25 years!!!. So if you fill out all the forms, pay your fees, and your sibling is at the age of 25, they will be 45-50 years old the day they are allowed to enter (And that's a relative, if you want to petition yourself it takes longer!!!). And what of everyone else who is trying to get in? What of other countries? Indeed we have jobs that need to be filled but there is certainly no shortage of foreigners who are happy to fill them. Why should we give deference to those who came here illegally? Why should we ignore those who broke our laws, skipped ahead in line, and took advantage of our immigration system? The left always wants talk about "fairness" but they don't give a rats ass about those who did it all legally. The always want to talk about diversity but they don't give a shit about all the other diverse peoples who cant just hop across the border. No, there is only one honest side to this debate. Those here illegally should be booted out and I don't care how mistreated they are or how many resources it takes up.

There is a reason the United States is as successful as it is. There is a dominant culture that found the winning recipe that other cultures have yet to enjoy. Rewarding mass illegal immigration will punish assimilation and tear down the cultural fabric that made this nation great. Peoples all over the world are running from the institutions their cultures built. Assimilation is a key feature of the immigrant experience in America and we should never reward those here illegally.

 

[MaryL]

Wow, invaders wanting to redefine "fairness' and the rules of the game. Oh, its tenable. It's not difficult. Respect. Integrity. Honesty.

 

[Unkotare]

Nice to see some people missing the point so completely.

 

[charwin95]

It has become difficult to even discuss the problem of illegal immigration because each side has defined the other in categorical, untenable terms. Any mention of immigration reform has become "amnesty!" and is summarily dismissed accordingly. Any mention of the need for border control and respect for America's sovereignty has become " hateful, racist xenophobia!" and is summarily dismissed accordingly.

How to even talk about the issue under such conditions?

How is it hateful or racist? Do you know how long the immigration wait is for a brother or a sister to come over from Mexico or the Philippines? 20-25 years!!!. So if you fill out all the forms, pay your fees, and your sibling is at the age of 25, they will be 45-50 years old the day they are allowed to enter (And that's a relative, if you want to petition yourself it takes longer!!!). And what of everyone else who is trying to get in? What of other countries? Indeed we have jobs that need to be filled but there is certainly no shortage of foreigners who are happy to fill them. Why should we give deference to those who came here illegally? Why should we ignore those who broke our laws, skipped ahead in line, and took advantage of our immigration system? The left always wants talk about "fairness" but they don't give a rats ass about those who did it all legally. The always want to talk about diversity but they don't give a shit about all the other diverse peoples who cant just hop across the border. No, there is only one honest side to this debate. Those here illegally should be booted out and I don't care how mistreated they are or how many resources it takes up.

There is a reason the United States is as successful as it is. There is a dominant culture that found the winning recipe that other cultures have yet to enjoy. Rewarding mass illegal immigration will punish assimilation and tear down the cultural fabric that made this nation great. Peoples all over the world are running from the institutions their cultures built. Assimilation is a key feature of the immigrant experience in America and we should never reward those here illegally.

USA is the only country in this world that treat illegal aliens generously more than any other places on earth. Massive funding for these illegals in my state of Ca is by the billions. What a waste of tax payers money.

I'm not sure where you get your number of 20 to 25 years for completing a petition legally. Foreigners that comes here legally are treated more than fair. If you just want to apply for work just go through H1 visa. The quota for legal entry through petition from the Philippines is 14,000/yr. if you are an American citizen petitioning your wife coming to US it will take no more than 3months. Petitioning your brother or sister will take no more than 4 to 6 years but no such thing as as 20 - 25 years. And there's no such thing as petitioning yourself.

How I know all of these? It happened that I know someone that works at US embassy in the Philippines.

 

[Publius1787]

It has become difficult to even discuss the problem of illegal immigration because each side has defined the other in categorical, untenable terms. Any mention of immigration reform has become "amnesty!" and is summarily dismissed accordingly. Any mention of the need for border control and respect for America's sovereignty has become " hateful, racist xenophobia!" and is summarily dismissed accordingly.

How to even talk about the issue under such conditions?

How is it hateful or racist? Do you know how long the immigration wait is for a brother or a sister to come over from Mexico or the Philippines? 20-25 years!!!. So if you fill out all the forms, pay your fees, and your sibling is at the age of 25, they will be 45-50 years old the day they are allowed to enter (And that's a relative, if you want to petition yourself it takes longer!!!). And what of everyone else who is trying to get in? What of other countries? Indeed we have jobs that need to be filled but there is certainly no shortage of foreigners who are happy to fill them. Why should we give deference to those who came here illegally? Why should we ignore those who broke our laws, skipped ahead in line, and took advantage of our immigration system? The left always wants talk about "fairness" but they don't give a rats ass about those who did it all legally. The always want to talk about diversity but they don't give a shit about all the other diverse peoples who cant just hop across the border. No, there is only one honest side to this debate. Those here illegally should be booted out and I don't care how mistreated they are or how many resources it takes up.

There is a reason the United States is as successful as it is. There is a dominant culture that found the winning recipe that other cultures have yet to enjoy. Rewarding mass illegal immigration will punish assimilation and tear down the cultural fabric that made this nation great. Peoples all over the world are running from the institutions their cultures built. Assimilation is a key feature of the immigrant experience in America and we should never reward those here illegally.

USA is the only country in this world that treat illegal aliens generously more than any other places on earth. Massive funding for these illegals in my state of Ca is by the billions. What a waste of tax payers money.

I'm not sure where you get your number of 20 to 25 years for completing a petition legally. Foreigners that comes here legally are treated more than fair. If you just want to apply for work just go through H1 visa. The quota for legal entry through petition from the Philippines is 14,000/yr. if you are an American citizen petitioning your wife coming to US it will take no more than 3months. Petitioning your brother or sister will take no more than 4 to 6 years but no such thing as as 20 - 25 years. And there's no such thing as petitioning yourself.

How I know all of these? It happened that I know someone that works at US embassy in the Philippines.

What type of visa was it?

 

[charwin95]

Immigrant visa. Some of my employees relative are going through this right now.