Capitalism vs the free market

[Kosh]

I'm interested in hearing the differences. My understanding is that capitalism is defined by investments, ownership, production, etc. being determined by private individuals rather than by the State. With the free market being the primary method of that such private individuals make such decisions.

The free market would then be a mechanism of capitalism. Though not capitalism itself. The way an engine of a car makes the car go. But is not itself a car.

That works just fine. The engine, the car, the driver, and the roads. All are required, not to mention the people who did all the work.

I'm a big fan of capitalism. I'm just not an ideologue about it, recognizing that there is a place and need for capitalism to be reigned in. I look at it like....fire. Wonderfully useful, amazingly versatile, will burn the holy living fuck out of you if you leave it unchecked.

Yes as in you believe communist China is Capitalism..

 

[Skylar]

I'm interested in hearing the differences. My understanding is that capitalism is defined by investments, ownership, production, etc. being determined by private individuals rather than by the State. With the free market being the primary method of that such private individuals make such decisions.

The free market would then be a mechanism of capitalism. Though not capitalism itself. The way an engine of a car makes the car go. But is not itself a car.

That works just fine. The engine, the car, the driver, and the roads. All are required, not to mention the people who did all the work.

I'm a big fan of capitalism. I'm just not an ideologue about it, recognizing that there is a place and need for capitalism to be reigned in. I look at it like....fire. Wonderfully useful, amazingly versatile, will burn the holy living fuck out of you if you leave it unchecked.

BWahahhahahahahahah.


Be a man.

Admit that fascism/communism is what you actually meant.


How can a system be free if it it "regulated" by bureaucrats.

THINK then , and only then , post.


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No country in the world has unregulated capitalism. Now, why is that?

Its wildly unstable. And frankly, unsustainable. It would change into something else as private concentrations of power corrupted the political system....or the people reacting to that corruption and abuse began to regulate it. It couldn't exist unregulated for long. I suspect that the only reason the founders had the luxury of a purer capitalistic system is that they had a frontier to expand into.

Regulated capitalism is the only method of capitalism that is sustainable. And the effects are better for it. Its much more stable, benefits more people, is less wasteful, much less brutal on the environment, and fosters greater degrees of competition by maintaining a level playing field .....encouraging greater effeciency and innovation.

 

[Kosh]

Honestly, I think there's a tremendous amount of usefulness in conservatism, as they get so many things right. Their most common mistake is in assuming universal applicability and demanding a purity of application that just outstrips reason

Capitalism works because it benefits the individual and allows demand for a product or service to dictate its supply. An individual will work harder for his own benefit than he will for anothers. And the 'invisible hand of the market' in guiding supply and demand is ruthlessly effecient in finding products or services that aren't in demand and eliminating them.

But there are limits. Unchecked and unrestrained self interest is a concise 5 word description for psychopathy. The behavior of which many corporations emulate. Self interest often works for the individual benefit while harming the community at large. Pollution would be a superb example. Noncompetitive practices would be another. Exploitation would be a third.

Self interest needs to be checked by the *effects* of self interest.

Yet you support the far left and government owning everything and controlling every aspect of ones life.

 

[Kosh]

I'm interested in hearing the differences. My understanding is that capitalism is defined by investments, ownership, production, etc. being determined by private individuals rather than by the State. With the free market being the primary method of that such private individuals make such decisions.

The free market would then be a mechanism of capitalism. Though not capitalism itself. The way an engine of a car makes the car go. But is not itself a car.

That works just fine. The engine, the car, the driver, and the roads. All are required, not to mention the people who did all the work.

I'm a big fan of capitalism. I'm just not an ideologue about it, recognizing that there is a place and need for capitalism to be reigned in. I look at it like....fire. Wonderfully useful, amazingly versatile, will burn the holy living fuck out of you if you leave it unchecked.

BWahahhahahahahahah.


Be a man.

Admit that fascism/communism is what you actually meant.


How can a system be free if it it "regulated" by bureaucrats.

THINK then , and only then , post.


.

No country in the world has unregulated capitalism. Now, why is that?

Its wildly unstable. And frankly, unsustainable. It would change into something else as private concentrations of power corrupted the political system....or the people reacting to that corruption and abuse began to regulate it. It couldn't exist unregulated for long. I suspect that the only reason the founders had the luxury of a purer capitalistic system is that they had a frontier to expand into.

Regulated capitalism is the only method of capitalism that is sustainable. And the effects are better for it. Its much more stable, benefits more people, is less wasteful, much less brutal on the environment, and fosters greater degrees of competition by maintaining a level playing field .....encouraging greater effeciency and innovation.

As in communist China being that capitalism.

 

[Skylar]

I'm interested in hearing the differences. My understanding is that capitalism is defined by investments, ownership, production, etc. being determined by private individuals rather than by the State. With the free market being the primary method of that such private individuals make such decisions.

The free market would then be a mechanism of capitalism. Though not capitalism itself. The way an engine of a car makes the car go. But is not itself a car.

That works just fine. The engine, the car, the driver, and the roads. All are required, not to mention the people who did all the work.

I'm a big fan of capitalism. I'm just not an ideologue about it, recognizing that there is a place and need for capitalism to be reigned in. I look at it like....fire. Wonderfully useful, amazingly versatile, will burn the holy living fuck out of you if you leave it unchecked.

BWahahhahahahahahah.


Be a man.

Admit that fascism/communism is what you actually meant.

You don't know what fascism/communism is. You're equating them even now....and they're radically different. As I said, you're applying both terms as a pejorative. A name to call anything you don't like. A category to lump anyone who doesn't share your exact views.

Regulated capitalism is neither fascism nor communism. Nor anything remotely close to them. But its not your particular brand of ideological purity, and thus you lump it all under the moniker of 'fascism/communism'.

I advocate what I've advocated: regulated capitalism. If you wish to debate my positions, I'm open to it. But realize that we'll be using the actual meanings of terms. Not simply applying any random pejorative you imagine.

 

[SwimExpert]

Do you know the difference? I see alot of people here using these two terms as if they were the same thing.

HUH?

WTF?


Capitalism and the FREE MARKET are interchangeable terms. You can not have one without the other.


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So, we've established that at least Contumacious person does not know what they are talking about. Anyone else?

I'm interested in hearing the differences. My understanding is that capitalism is defined by investments, ownership, production, etc. being determined by private individuals rather than by the State. With the free market being the primary method of that such private individuals make such decisions.

The free market would then be a mechanism of capitalism. Though not capitalism itself. The way an engine of a car makes the car go. But is not itself a car.

It's pretty simple. Capitalism is about who owns the fruits of activities. In a capitalist economy, the person who supplied the capital is the owner of the what is produced. If you are employed by a company, when you go to work and build a table, the employer owns the table because they supplied the capital for the activity. As a worker, you have no inherent right to any portion of the fruits of your labor. Your rights to compensation are found in whatever agreement has been made to exchange your labor for pay. Your pay is due to you regardless of the company's profitability or lack thereof. At the same time, you have no right to compensation simply based on the company's profitability.

A free market is about transactions being conducted based on individual freedom to choose. You have the freedom to decide whether you want to trade your labor for $X. You have the freedom to choose whether you want to pay $N for a product someone has available for sale.

 

[hipeter924]

Depends ho

There is one far left poster on this board trying to push communist China as capitalism..

So, can you explain the difference between capitalism and the free market?

Depends how you define 'free market'. The most strict interpretation would be an economy with no government interference and no corporations.

 

[Mr Natural]

I'm interested in hearing the differences. My understanding is that capitalism is defined by investments, ownership, production, etc. being determined by private individuals rather than by the State. With the free market being the primary method of that such private individuals make such decisions.

The free market would then be a mechanism of capitalism. Thoug
h not capitalism itself. The way an engine of a car makes the car go. But is not itself a car.

That works just fine. The engine, the car, the driver, and the roads. All are required, not to mention the people who did all the work.

I'm a big fan of capitalism. I'm just not an ideologue about it, recognizing that there is a place and need for capitalism to be reigned in. I look at it like....fire. Wonderfully useful, amazingly versatile, will burn the holy living fuck out of you if you leave it unchecked.

That's pretty much how normal, rational people think.

 

[SwimExpert]

Depends how you define 'free market'. The most strict interpretation would be an economy with no government interference and no corporations.

That is degree, not type.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

That's pretty much how normal, rational people think.

And this is not a website for them, obviously.

 

[hipeter924]

Depends how you define 'free market'. The most strict interpretation would be an economy with no government interference and no corporations.

That is degree, not type.

It is type, as there is a false-free market pushed by politicians; and a true free market existing on the premise of the government not getting involved in the economy, voluntary exchange, and private contracts.

 

[SwimExpert]

Depends how you define 'free market'. The most strict interpretation would be an economy with no government interference and no corporations.

That is degree, not type.

It is type, as there is a false-free market pushed by politicians; and a true free market existing on the premise of the government not getting involved in the economy, voluntary exchange, and private contracts.

No.

 

[hipeter924]

Depends how you define 'free market'. The most strict interpretation would be an economy with no government interference and no corporations.

That is degree, not type.

It is type, as there is a false-free market pushed by politicians; and a true free market existing on the premise of the government not getting involved in the economy, voluntary exchange, and private contracts.

No.

Yes. Unless you believe in the 19th and early 20th century 'free market' with no workers rights, and child labor.

 

[Contumacious]

So

There is one far left poster on this board trying to push communist China as capitalism..

China is State Capitalism. Learn what that means.

State capitalism is actually known as mercantilism.

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I'll help:

"State capitalism is usually described as an economic system in which commercial (i.e. for-profit) economic activity is undertaken by the state, with management and organization of the means of production in a capitalist manner, including the system of capital accumulation, wage labor, and centralized management."

way, way off, as per usual


Mercantilism: A Lesson for Our Times?

"Keynesians hail mercantilists as prefiguring their own economic insights; Marxists, constitutionally unable to distinguish between free enterprise and special privilege, hail mercantilism as a "progressive" step in the historical development of capitalism; socialists and interventionists salute mercantilism as anticipating modern state building and central planning.

Mercantilism, which reached its height in the Europe of the 17th and 18th centuries, was a system of statism which employed economic fallacy to build up a structure of imperial state power, as well as special subsidy and monopolistic privilege to individuals or groups favored by the state."


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