"Capitalism takes more people out of poverty than charity does" - Bono

[depotoo]

No, they don’t need it, they want it. Two different animals. Period.

Nothing like the opportunity to work for one’s survival and independence!

Very true

But it also limits what they can earn. Even to the point where people work full time jobs and still need Government assistance

 

[Penelope]

No, they don’t need it, they want it. Two different animals. Period.

Nothing like the opportunity to work for one’s survival and independence!

Very true

But it also limits what they can earn. Even to the point where people work full time jobs and still need Government assistance

The maj of people need it.

 

[task0778]

The problem with capitalism is that it requires good governance to regulate it. Which we ain't got, never have. A capitalistic economy is obviously going to be run by people, who as we all know are subject to the sins of avarice, greed, corruption, etc. Same as any other economic model, people are people. Which means if any economic system is to prosper and maximize justice and equal opportunity then your government has to be honest and vigilant. Which again we ain't got, never have. Our problem isn't capitalism, it's our gov't that plays favorites for political gain and enriches itself at the people's expense.

 

[Marxist_Trash]

M....

I do not call people having to work 2 or more full-time jobs just to survive independence.......

Then you are lazy and infantile.

That is why blue collar workers, (you know who they are) are on SNAP more than white collars workers, who sit on their a..es.

Are you trying to say that white collar workers are lazy, comrade? Or that they don't often have to work more than one job as well?

I think my initial comment got misinterpreted.

All I meant to say was that in this system hard work does not always equal financial independence, ESPECIALLY for low-income brackets, e.g., the working class in WV. This includes white collar workers in many entry-level positions. Though their work is not physically stressful it is certainly emotionally straining and demoralizing.

Work should empower and give people purpose, not destroy their psyche on a daily basis. Ironically the conservative values of hard work = success and happiness simply cannot be achieved in a conservative economic system.

The big lie about capitalism is that everyone benefits. The exact opposite is actually the truth. Capitalism requires that there are haves and have nots. It requires that there are more people than employement to work. its driven by supply but more importantly demand. This demand is generated by those wishing to display their status as haves. The people that really benefit are the ones that make whatever bullshit product you dont really need.

It isn't that EVERYONE benefits from capitalism, anybody with a brain knows that. The truth is that MORE people benefit from capitalism than any other economic model, and it ain't even close. And every economy in every country in the world past and present has ALWAYS had haves and have nots; the truth is that under a capitalistic model you have WAY more haves and near haves than have nots. And the people that REALLY benefit are the people who enjoy a much higher standard of living than in any other economic model. There are a hell of a lot more middle and lower income people living a lot more comfortable and healthier lives thanks to capitalism. Does anyone think that socialism or communism can say the same? If so, you're out of your mind.

And in legitimate democratic communism, everyone is comfortably situated in the have category. The world has enough resources for all.

I think we as human beings can do better than this travesty of an economic system.

The problem with capitalism is that it requires good governance to regulate it. Which we ain't got, never have. A capitalistic economy is obviously going to be run by people, who as we all know are subject to the sins of avarice, greed, corruption, etc. Same as any other economic model, people are people. Which means if any economic system is to prosper and maximize justice and equal opportunity then your government has to be honest and vigilant. Which again we ain't got, never have. Our problem isn't capitalism, it's our gov't that plays favorites for political gain and enriches itself at the people's expense.

The problem with capitalism is that it will always lead to corrupt governance. Because there will always be people with greater resources than the average joe running for any meaningful office. Corporations, the true concentrations of wealth in society, will always rule until they are dismantled and given democratic leadership...which is not impossible, given that there are corporations even today that use such a model.

 

[Indeependent]

Nothing like the opportunity to work for one’s survival and independence!

Bono, the King of Tax Evaders.
And no, what he does is NOT legal like what Google does.

 

[rightwinger]

One person? Ever read Tyler Perry’s story? John Paul DeJoria?
Ursula Burns? Read the story of Ben Palmer. Chris. Gardner, Linda Singh. There are those that work hard and smart that make it all the time, that came from poverty, or abuse, etc.

Your mentality is what stops one from doing so.

Having personally known someone that couldn’t read and write and became a very successful private contractor, I know if someone has the drive they can succeed under most any circumstances.

One person, really. What kind of contractor?
Who did his proposals (bids) and write his bills?

The exception does not justify the norm

 

[Indeependent]

There will be cronyism no matter type of system we have.

 

[rightwinger]

Capitalism uses low cost labor to make profit

By its very nature, that labor should get someone out of poverty
capitalists try to keep it as close to a sustainment level as possible

 

[task0778]

" And in legitimate democratic communism, everyone is comfortably situated in the have category. The world has enough resources for all. "

Is there a country that has a legitimate democratic communist economic/political model? Show me the one where everyone is in the have category.


" The problem with capitalism is that it will always lead to corrupt governance. "

So a big corp offers a bribe of some kind to a politician and the politician accepts it but you're blaming the big corp rather than the politician? You know what the real problem is? The voters don't vote out the corrupt politicians.

 

[Marxist_Trash]

If large corporations were to be more transparent (ie, democratically controlled), they wouldn't be bribing them in the first place. Also how are you to know which politician is corrupt and which isn't when they aren't thoroughly examined by a nonpartisan committee before running for office?

I can't point you to a communist society that has worked in such a fashion, but I can point you to the Nordic countries for just the beginning to the benefits of socialist economic policies.

 

[Tehon]

The problem with capitalism is that it requires good governance to regulate it. Which we ain't got, never have. A capitalistic economy is obviously going to be run by people, who as we all know are subject to the sins of avarice, greed, corruption, etc. Same as any other economic model, people are people. Which means if any economic system is to prosper and maximize justice and equal opportunity then your government has to be honest and vigilant. Which again we ain't got, never have. Our problem isn't capitalism, it's our gov't that plays favorites for political gain and enriches itself at the people's expense.

No, the problem is capitalism. It's capital accumulation that affords people the ability to buy government. And our politicians are culled from a society that worships individualism and an economic system that promotes rational self interest as the driver for propelling society forward. It's nice to think that we could send honorable people to represent us and many start off with good intentions but the whole system has already been set up for their failure.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

No, the problem is capitalism. It's capital accumulation that affords people the ability to buy government.

you mean to buy liberal govt. conservative govt is designed to be small, have little power and not be worth buying. Also conservative govt is designed to promote capitalism, not crony capitalism or socialism. Do you understand?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If large corporations were to be more transparent (ie, democratically controlled), they wouldn't be bribing them in the first place. Also how are you to know which politician is corrupt and which isn't when they aren't thoroughly examined by a nonpartisan committee before running for office?

I can't point you to a communist society that has worked in such a fashion, but I can point you to the Nordic countries for just the beginning to the benefits of socialist economic policies.

Nordic countries are tiny and not representative plus they are more socialist than we are. We have higher corporate taxes and get higher % of govt revenue from top 1%. Makes sense?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

" The voters don't vote out the corrupt politicians.

the less govt the less corruption, this is why our founders gave us limited govt. Liberals lacks the IQ to grasp this concept on which America is based and grew to be most successful in human history!!
Do you understand?

 

[Tehon]

No, the problem is capitalism. It's capital accumulation that affords people the ability to buy government.

you mean to buy liberal govt. conservative govt is designed to be small, have little power and not be worth buying. Also conservative govt is designed to promote capitalism, not crony capitalism or socialism. Do you understand?

I do.

 

[Marxist_Trash]

you mean to buy liberal govt. conservative govt is designed to be small, have little power and not be worth buying. Also conservative govt is designed to promote capitalism, not crony capitalism or socialism. Do you understand?

And then corporations, free to do whatever they wish with a weak central government, careen out of control and cause another market crash.

I mean this causes hurt to the people at the bottom that are most vulnerable, imo. I understand the appeal of capitalism, but it causes immense damage to those without protections.

 

[task0778]

you mean to buy liberal govt. conservative govt is designed to be small, have little power and not be worth buying. Also conservative govt is designed to promote capitalism, not crony capitalism or socialism. Do you understand?

And then corporations, free to do whatever they wish with a weak central government, careen out of control and cause another market crash.

I mean this causes hurt to the people at the bottom that are most vulnerable, imo. I understand the appeal of capitalism, but it causes immense damage to those without protections.

Whose fault is it if you have a weak central gov't, especially in a democratic society? Or for that matter in a non-democratic society where the rights of the people are ignored or abused? That is the justification for a revolution if all other means fail.

 

[task0778]

The problem with capitalism is that it requires good governance to regulate it. Which we ain't got, never have. A capitalistic economy is obviously going to be run by people, who as we all know are subject to the sins of avarice, greed, corruption, etc. Same as any other economic model, people are people. Which means if any economic system is to prosper and maximize justice and equal opportunity then your government has to be honest and vigilant. Which again we ain't got, never have. Our problem isn't capitalism, it's our gov't that plays favorites for political gain and enriches itself at the people's expense.

No, the problem is capitalism. It's capital accumulation that affords people the ability to buy government. And our politicians are culled from a society that worships individualism and an economic system that promotes rational self interest as the driver for propelling society forward. It's nice to think that we could send honorable people to represent us and many start off with good intentions but the whole system has already been set up for their failure.

This is nonsense, people can and do buy off gov't officials in ANY economic model. The excuse that "well he offered me SO MUCH money that I had to take it" is bullshit, and if we had an honest and unbiased MSM we could and should be going after anybody and everybody who has any part in gov't corruption. And that includes the big or little corps, unions, various associations, and of course the politicians. Laying it all on capitalism is poppycock, a crook is a crook in any gov't and in any style of economy, both the briber and the bribee

 

[Tehon]

The problem with capitalism is that it requires good governance to regulate it. Which we ain't got, never have. A capitalistic economy is obviously going to be run by people, who as we all know are subject to the sins of avarice, greed, corruption, etc. Same as any other economic model, people are people. Which means if any economic system is to prosper and maximize justice and equal opportunity then your government has to be honest and vigilant. Which again we ain't got, never have. Our problem isn't capitalism, it's our gov't that plays favorites for political gain and enriches itself at the people's expense.

No, the problem is capitalism. It's capital accumulation that affords people the ability to buy government. And our politicians are culled from a society that worships individualism and an economic system that promotes rational self interest as the driver for propelling society forward. It's nice to think that we could send honorable people to represent us and many start off with good intentions but the whole system has already been set up for their failure.

This is nonsense, people can and do buy off gov't officials in ANY economic model. The excuse that "well he offered me SO MUCH money that I had to take it" is bullshit, and if we had an honest and unbiased MSM we could and should be going after anybody and everybody who has any part in gov't corruption. And that includes the big or little corps, unions, various associations, and of course the politicians. Laying it all on capitalism is poppycock, a crook is a crook in any gov't and in any style of economy, both the briber and the bribee

Crooks? Campaign donations are not criminal. Lobbying is not criminal. They are natural parts of our political process. We all have the right, we don't all have the means.


The state presents itself to us as the first ideological power over man. Society creates for itself an organ for the safeguarding of its common interests against internal and external attacks. This organ is the state power. Hardly come into being, this organ makes itself independent vis-a-vis society; and, indeed, the more so, the more it becomes the organ of a particular class, the more it directly enforces the supremacy of that class. The fight of the oppressed class against the ruling class becomes necessarily a political fight, a fight first of all against the political dominance of this class. The consciousness of the interconnection between this political struggle and its economic basis becomes dulled and can be lost altogether.
Ludwig Feuerbach and the End of Classical German Philosophy - Part 4: Marx

 

[task0778]

The problem with capitalism is that it requires good governance to regulate it. Which we ain't got, never have. A capitalistic economy is obviously going to be run by people, who as we all know are subject to the sins of avarice, greed, corruption, etc. Same as any other economic model, people are people. Which means if any economic system is to prosper and maximize justice and equal opportunity then your government has to be honest and vigilant. Which again we ain't got, never have. Our problem isn't capitalism, it's our gov't that plays favorites for political gain and enriches itself at the people's expense.

No, the problem is capitalism. It's capital accumulation that affords people the ability to buy government. And our politicians are culled from a society that worships individualism and an economic system that promotes rational self interest as the driver for propelling society forward. It's nice to think that we could send honorable people to represent us and many start off with good intentions but the whole system has already been set up for their failure.

This is nonsense, people can and do buy off gov't officials in ANY economic model. The excuse that "well he offered me SO MUCH money that I had to take it" is bullshit, and if we had an honest and unbiased MSM we could and should be going after anybody and everybody who has any part in gov't corruption. And that includes the big or little corps, unions, various associations, and of course the politicians. Laying it all on capitalism is poppycock, a crook is a crook in any gov't and in any style of economy, both the briber and the bribee

Crooks? Campaign donations are not criminal. Lobbying is not criminal. They are natural parts of our political process. We all have the right, we don't all have the means.


The state presents itself to us as the first ideological power over man. Society creates for itself an organ for the safeguarding of its common interests against internal and external attacks. This organ is the state power. Hardly come into being, this organ makes itself independent vis-a-vis society; and, indeed, the more so, the more it becomes the organ of a particular class, the more it directly enforces the supremacy of that class. The fight of the oppressed class against the ruling class becomes necessarily a political fight, a fight first of all against the political dominance of this class. The consciousness of the interconnection between this political struggle and its economic basis becomes dulled and can be lost altogether.
Ludwig Feuerbach and the End of Classical German Philosophy - Part 4: Marx

A politician who accepts bribes or donations in exchange for political favors is a crook.