Capitalism is NOT Democratic: Democracy is NOT Capitalist

[struth]

No, the right wing wealthy elite have always traditionally merged the 2, hiring mercenaries to intimidate and kill.
They left is trying to create a counter defense to capitalist dictators, in order to prevent intimidation and murder by the wealthy elite.

Just look at history.
We rebelled from England.
Why?
Because England was run by capitalist dictators that were trying to unfairly tax and intimidate.

hahah you are an idiot

 

[WTH_Progs?]

Human labor made America.
Capitalism exploits labor by privatizing profit and socializing cost.

ILMAO..........Apparently nobody works in China right.

 

[DGS49]

I learned about the benefits of Capitalism when I worked for a small manufacturing company. We made equipment for water and wastewater treatment, mainly in the public sector.

For every component in a treatment plant, there were several manufacturers competing for that business. Valves, compressors, motors, meters, monitors, and so forth. And every manufacturer was constantly engaged in Research and Development, trying to make their products better than the competition (or cheaper to produce). As a result, the technology was constantly improving. The equipment evolved to be better, more reliable, more accurate.

Under a socialist regime, where the Sovereign would own the means of production and manage the process, any effort to improve the equipment would be half-hearted and largely unsuccessful. Faux progress would be rewarded and awarded.

This is why the Russians and the Chinese have spent decades stealing American (and European) technology; because socialism lacks the rewards paradigm that spurs technological development. In my own experience, we would occasionally have engineers and scientists from the USSR touring our facilities. They were often brilliant, but not really equipped to innovate, as we were. Only to copy and steal.

It is no coincidence that the greatest technological innovations all arise in Capitalist countries, where there is a clear incentive to make things better, and to invent new products and services. Personal computers would NEVER have come into existence without capitalism. We would all be driving Trabants, or equivalent. Socialism seeks to make everyone equally poor and miserable, except for the Kleptocrats who run things. The examples are all around us...North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

I learned about the benefits of Capitalism when I worked for a small manufacturing company. We made equipment for water and wastewater treatment, mainly in the public sector.

For every component in a treatment plant, there were several manufacturers competing for that business. Valves, compressors, motors, meters, monitors, and so forth. And every manufacturer was constantly engaged in Research and Development, trying to make their products better than the competition (or cheaper to produce). As a result, the technology was constantly improving. The equipment evolved to be better, more reliable, more accurate.

Under a socialist regime, where the Sovereign would own the means of production and manage the process, any effort to improve the equipment would be half-hearted and largely unsuccessful. Faux progress would be rewarded and awarded.

This is why the Russians and the Chinese have spent decades stealing American (and European) technology; because socialism lacks the rewards paradigm that spurs technological development. In my own experience, we would occasionally have engineers and scientists from the USSR touring our facilities. They were often brilliant, but not really equipped to innovate, as we were. Only to copy and steal.

It is no coincidence that the greatest technological innovations all arise in Capitalist countries, where there is a clear incentive to make things better, and to invent new products and services. Personal computers would NEVER have come into existence without capitalism. We would all be driving Trabants, or equivalent. Socialism seeks to make everyone equally poor and miserable, except for the Kleptocrats who run things. The examples are all around us...North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela.

Similar labor itself. I spent a lot of time in both private and public, the differences are vast. Private is practical say, honest objectives and far better treatment. Public is almost purely subjective. Having left private to public, one private man-hour = 100+ in the public sector, and the kicker is, the public sector will still manage to fuck it up anyway, so add another 100+ hours.

Kid you not. A lot of that public time was in info. systems. If they wanted a programmer that was worth a shit they almost exclusively had to contract in from the private sector.

 

[ClaireH]

The New Deal created the greatest middle class in history after capitalism collapsed the global economy in 1929. Central planning won both world wars in the 20th century. By early 2020 when the MAGA pandemic first began shutting down the world economy, 87 million US residents lacked adequate healthcare and 40% could not afford an unexpected $400 expense.

In the richest country in history 40 million people were poor, half of all workers lived paycheck to paycheck, and 12% of the population had experienced food insecurity at some point during the preceding year.

That's what capitalism does.
It consolidates wealth in fewer and fewer hands with each passing generation.
Only slaves call that freedom.

Your theory has an obvious shortcoming, along with a few others, but one quite notable is that your position would mean that we all start with the same energy and drive… to either do nothing and expect others to support us (including family and government), do just enough to live without handouts (never to be confused with legit hand-ups), or the determination to often rise above difficult circumstances by helping ourselves and helping others.

If US citizens actually lived in your type of world, where we all had the same lack of drive and couldn’t care less about personal responsibility, yes, we’d need our faulty ridden government to save us from ourselves. That’s a secondary issue that is problematic with your assessment: your take on the “horrors” of self-determination and personal responsibility inspires others to embrace handouts as if it’s just the natural evolution of economics. No, it’s not. Economic collapse is a political goal to pursue government reliance. It is not a “natural economic” result without human intention. It will never succeed at least in our lifetimes. There are still too many of us who enjoy personal liberties and freedoms that come with self- responsibility.

 

[struth]

Similar labor itself. I spent a lot of time in both private and public, the differences are vast. Private is practical say, honest objectives and far better treatment. Public is almost purely subjective. Having left private to public, one private man-hour = 100+ in the public sector, and the kicker is, the public sector will still manage to fuck it up anyway, so add another 100+ hours.

Kid you not. A lot of that public time was in info. systems. If they wanted a programmer that was worth a shit they almost exclusively had to contract in.

it’s the nature of govt. Govt is always spending other people’s money on other people, and therefore isn’t efficient or accountable for their use of resources.

in the private sector folks have to earn the money, so are more accountable how it’s spent, and earned…hence more efficient, accountable, and effective

 

[WTH_Progs?]

it’s the nature of govt. Govt is always spending other people’s money on other people, and therefore isn’t efficient or accountable for their use of resources.

in the private sector folks have to earn the money, so are more accountable how it’s spent, and earned…hence more efficient, accountable, and effective

Should have seen those MFers blowing public money at useless platforms & software to the tune of millions. Dumbshits even tried to save face by rejecting my simple & free platforms only to end up with the same layouts that were 1/10th as efficient & effective, at the cost of 100sK+. Want to really piss them off, watch them wear egg on their faces three times same subject, because last I knew they were still using my templates, by "default". Private digs efficiency, public is offended by it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That is silly because capitalists do traditionally just murder/steal.
Recently that is why we invaded Iraq.
That was the point of the colonialism and imperialism of the US, England, France, Belgium, Holland, etc.
That was the point of the Spanish conquistadors, the Crusades, the Roman legions, Alexander the Great, the Egyptians, etc.

If there is murder and stealing, that is the opposite of communism, which be definition means sharing.

And yes, left wing governments can never use military force to prevent popular opinions from being implemented.
It is only right wing governments where you have a mercenary military that will do what the elite minority pays them to do.
With a true left wing government, there is no paid military, and you just have citizen soldiers who won't do evil things.

The ability to get along is an indicator of how natural, normal, and efficient a system is.
If you can't get along, then you waste effort on unproductive conflict.
For example, do we need 10 different car makers?
If one makers puts another out of business, then all those buildings, jobs, investments, etc., are all lost.
Every successful car maker has destroyed over half a dozen others, resulting in untold harm and damage.
It would be far more efficient to just have 1 car makers that had a board to investigate and incorporate innovative improvements.

For example, there are a lot of really, really stupid things cars should not do or have.
Like touch screens that make you look away from the road.
Catalytic converters that produce highly toxic cyanates, formalins, etc.
Throttle by wire, that sometimes go full throttle by mistake,
Etc.

That is silly because capitalists do traditionally just murder/steal.

Like the capitalists in China and the USSR, right?

Recently that is why we invaded Iraq.

Is that why we took all their oil and turned a profit?

It is only right wing governments where you have a mercenary military that will do what the elite minority pays them to do.

Exactly. Which is why Cuba and Venezuela didn't do that.

For example, do we need 10 different car makers?

Because idiots like you and Bernie aren't in charge.
How'd Trabants work out?

Every successful car maker has destroyed over half a dozen others, resulting in untold harm and damage.

Not to mention killing all the workers and management.

Catalytic converters that produce highly toxic cyanates, formalins, etc.

Why are you conflating government mandates with capitalism?

 

[georgephillip]

Economic surplus? LOL!

Does greedy billionaire bitches work better for you, Rube?

U.S. Billionaires are Now $2.1 Trillion Richer Than Before the Pandemic - Inequality.org

"America’s billionaires have grown $2.1 trillion richer during the pandemic, their collective fortune skyrocketing by 70 percent — from just short of $3 trillion at the start of the COVID crisis on March 18, 2020, to over $5 trillion on October 15 of this year, according to Forbes data analyzed by Americans for Tax Fairness (ATF) and the Institute for Policy Studies Program on Inequality (IPS). [A table of the top 15 billionaires is below and the full data set is here.]"

 

[georgephillip]

Capitalism is a form of governance where a small minority of all the people control the means of production thereby ensuring they decide how any economic surplus will be distributed.

Economic surplus? LOL!

Which is more important capitalism or democracy?

 

[bripat9643]

Which is more important capitalism or democracy?

Capitalism, by far.

 

[dblack]

Which is more important capitalism or democracy?

It's an easy question. Without economic freedom, all other freedoms are moot.

And you're also making a basic category error. Capitalism is independent of democracy and vice versa. You can have capitalism, with or without democracy and vice versa.

 

[bripat9643]

It's an easy question. Without economic freedom, all other freedoms are moot.

And you're also making a basic category error. Capitalism is independent of democracy and vice versa. You can have capitalism, with or without democracy and vice versa.

With democracy, you can't have it for long.

 

[georgephillip]

Nope. Democracy serves the interests of the majority. Not ALL the people

Are rich people or poor people the majority in America?
Which cohort's interest does oligarchy serve?

Brutal Capitalism: How America is transforming from a democracy to an oligarchy | The Milwaukee Independent

"Recidivists. Repeat criminals. Billionaires. But because the crime they committed was mostly against average Americans rather than against big companies or rich people, they’ll quietly retire to one of their chalets or mansions.

"Meanwhile, Jessica Reznicek was just sentenced to serve 8 years in prison for damaging an oil pipeline that she believed threatened the water supply of Iowa and surrounding regions and is contributing to climate change. Nobody died. Nobody got addicted. She didn’t make any money doing it. She’s not rich"

 

[dblack]

With democracy, you can't have it for long.

Sure you can. You just need consensus that government shouldn't be meddling in our economic affairs.

 

[dblack]

Are rich people or poor people the majority in America?
Which cohort's interest does oligarchy serve?

As you usual, your pompous self-important fonts and links amount to nothing more than random nonsense, that in no way addresses the quote you're responding to. You have a real problem with that. If you can want to drone on and on about irrelevant shit, kindly refrain from quoting my posts. It makes it seem like you're responding to my points, but you're not. You're just steering around them.

 

[georgephillip]

No, it's not a form governance.

Capitalism is among (actually the primary) actors involved in the creation, reinforcement, or reproduction of social norms and institutions in this country.

Governance - Wikipedia

"Governance is all the processes of interaction be they through the laws, norms, power or language of an organized society[1] over a social system (family, tribe, formal or informal organization, a territory or across territories).

"It is done by the government of a state, by a market, or by a network. It is the decision-making among the actors involved in a collective problem that lead to the creation, reinforcement, or reproduction of social norms and institutions'"

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"America’s billionaires have grown $2.1 trillion richer during the pandemic

It's weird how guys who own a lot of stocks make a lot of money when stocks go up a lot.

 

[dblack]

Capitalism is among (actually the primary) actors involved in the creation, reinforcement, or reproduction of social norms and institutions in this country.

Governance - Wikipedia

"Governance is all the processes of interaction be they through the laws, norms, power or language of an organized society[1] over a social system (family, tribe, formal or informal organization, a territory or across territories).

"It is done by the government of a state, by a market, or by a network. It is the decision-making among the actors involved in a collective problem that lead to the creation, reinforcement, or reproduction of social norms and institutions'"

More horseshit. I

... .oh fuck it. Not wasting my time with idiotic equivocation. And that's pretty much all I see from socialists.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are rich people or poor people the majority in America?
Which cohort's interest does oligarchy serve?

Brutal Capitalism: How America is transforming from a democracy to an oligarchy | The Milwaukee Independent

"Recidivists. Repeat criminals. Billionaires. But because the crime they committed was mostly against average Americans rather than against big companies or rich people, they’ll quietly retire to one of their chalets or mansions.

"Meanwhile, Jessica Reznicek was just sentenced to serve 8 years in prison for damaging an oil pipeline that she believed threatened the water supply of Iowa and surrounding regions and is contributing to climate change. Nobody died. Nobody got addicted. She didn’t make any money doing it. She’s not rich"

Are rich people or poor people the majority in America?

Depends on how you define rich and poor.

Recidivists. Repeat criminals. Billionaires. But because the crime they committed was mostly against average Americans rather than against big companies or rich people, they’ll quietly retire to one of their chalets or mansions.

Which billionaires? Which crimes? Be specific.

Meanwhile, Jessica Reznicek was just sentenced to serve 8 years in prison for damaging an oil pipeline that she believed threatened the water supply of Iowa and surrounding regions and is contributing to climate change.

She sounds like an idiot. She's lucky she didn't burn to death.

a senior Exxon executive and lobbyist told a reporter that his company had no intention of going along with a carbon tax

Excellent!! If you want to stop using carbon, you should stop.

The death toll from the “heat dome” caused in part by Exxon’s product (and their decades of funding climate denialism every bit as horrific as the Sackler’s marketing efforts for Oxycontin) has now officially killed over 116 people in Oregon

I heard it was 116 million.

It has transformed America from a democracy to an oligarchy, and the point of no return is now visible. And that presents a true crisis for America, because oligarchy is almost always merely a transitional phase in the evolution of full-blown tyranny and/or fascism.

That's awful!!

Fascism is much worse than communism.
Wait, why is fascism worse than communism?