loosecannon
Senior Member
- May 7, 2007
- 4,888
- 269
- 48
There doesn't have to be something "wrong" with capitalism to acknowledge that capitalism by itself didn't take us to the moon.
Amen
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There doesn't have to be something "wrong" with capitalism to acknowledge that capitalism by itself didn't take us to the moon.
What's your point? 100% of the medical care purchased through Medicare or Medicaid is provided by private doctors and hospitals, too. Does that make it sufficiently free markety for your tastes? The reality is that government investments (yes, mostly through money funneled into the private sector) have been significant in our history:
Consider the kinds of industries usually associated with the modern economy: jet aviation, semiconductors, computers, the Internet, global positioning systems, laser technology, MRI technologies, high-strength steel alloys, fiber-reinforced plastics, nanotechnologies. Tens of millions of new jobs -- well-paying jobs with good benefits -- were created through these innovative industries.
Each of them arose out of government-funded research, initial development by government, requirements established by regulation, large-scale governmental demand and purchasing to provide initial markets, or some combination of these. Every one of them.
Life is about balance.
Great. if the government wishes to purchase product from a business owner, then they can be like any other customer. I do not see your point. if the government can buy scalpels from a private company, you are saying the government then has the right to use the scalpels on someone who needs surgery at the expense of a third party via their taxes?
Enlighten me, also, government funded research is unnecessary because if the companies kept more of their money they could fund their own research with their motive being to 1-up the competition and thus increase the standard of living for the population even more! Maybe even robot butlers! cool! (most companies have research divisions ie. apple)
side note: im going to bed ill check on this in the morning! later.
Except government isn't like any other customer. It's wasteful, and gets its money not by providing a good or service to the economy, but by stealing it from those who do.
There doesn't have to be something "wrong" with capitalism to acknowledge that capitalism by itself didn't take us to the moon.
Amen
Great. if the government wishes to purchase product from a business owner, then they can be like any other customer. I do not see your point. if the government can buy scalpels from a private company, you are saying the government then has the right to use the scalpels on someone who needs surgery at the expense of a third party via their taxes?
Enlighten me, also, government funded research is unnecessary because if the companies kept more of their money they could fund their own research with their motive being to 1-up the competition and thus increase the standard of living for the population even more! Maybe even robot butlers! cool! (most companies have research divisions ie. apple)
side note: im going to bed ill check on this in the morning! later.
Except government isn't like any other customer. It's wasteful, and gets its money not by providing a good or service to the economy, but by stealing it from those who do.
right, but spending tax money on engines for tanks and porn tapes are two different things. I dont mean spend recklessly but to help do its job as described in the enumerated powers clause. ok im really going to bed now.
If you have talent, work hard, you succeed at life
If you don't ave talents, are lazy, and contribute nothing, you fail at life.
Economic darwinism; capitalism is simply the economic manifestation of freedom, liberty, and the rights to the fruit of your own labor. With the sky as the limit, a capitalist society is free to innovate due to open competition, and choices of the customer decides what business ventures succeed or fail.
Capitalism is what made the United States go from a third world back water country, to the moon in less than 200 years.
What exactly is wrong with capitalism?
everything is wrong with this post.
First off you falsely equate "freedom" with laissez faire survival of the fittest morality. Or "I got mine don't worry bout his". A creed antithetical to society of all forms, democracy and republic esp.
Second of all our economic system had almost shit to do with our success. Tho perhaps our patent laws did. We were gifted with at least a half dozen special circumstances which propelled us toward great wealth that had nothing to do with hard work.
1 a continent full of virgin resources to exploit
2 a robust slave economy
3 geographic isolation from european enemies and rivals
4 huge stores of gold and silver
5 a windfall in German intelligencia who fled here pre WWII
an even larger windfall in intelligencia including minds like Tesla simply by virtue of being a net immigration nation
>eventual world reserve currency status
>nuclear hegemony
>world commodity exchange hegemony
>we invented mass production and exited world war two with 60% of the world's gold AND we were the world's greatest creditor nation
Being lucky is much more important than working hard or being good.
We were lucky. Get over yourself. You didn't create your wealth, you inherited it.
Except government isn't like any other customer. It's wasteful, and gets its money not by providing a good or service to the economy, but by stealing it from those who do.
right, but spending tax money on engines for tanks and porn tapes are two different things. I dont mean spend recklessly but to help do its job as described in the enumerated powers clause. ok im really going to bed now.
Actually it's not different. The principle is always the same. Government spending destroys wealth because government takes money out of the private sector, which is where wealth is produced.
if you guys wanna nitpick, 90% of the technology in the military and NASA was developed by private companies and engineer research firms, fyi.
If you have talent, work hard, you succeed at life
If you don't ave talents, are lazy, and contribute nothing, you fail at life.
Economic darwinism; capitalism is simply the economic manifestation of freedom, liberty, and the rights to the fruit of your own labor. With the sky as the limit, a capitalist society is free to innovate due to open competition, and choices of the customer decides what business ventures succeed or fail.
Capitalism is what made the United States go from a third world back water country, to the moon in less than 200 years.
What exactly is wrong with capitalism?
everything is wrong with this post.
First off you falsely equate "freedom" with laissez faire survival of the fittest morality. Or "I got mine don't worry bout his". A creed antithetical to society of all forms, democracy and republic esp.
Second of all our economic system had almost shit to do with our success. Tho perhaps our patent laws did. We were gifted with at least a half dozen special circumstances which propelled us toward great wealth that had nothing to do with hard work.
1 a continent full of virgin resources to exploit
2 a robust slave economy
3 geographic isolation from european enemies and rivals
4 huge stores of gold and silver
5 a windfall in German intelligencia who fled here pre WWII
an even larger windfall in intelligencia including minds like Tesla simply by virtue of being a net immigration nation
>eventual world reserve currency status
>nuclear hegemony
>world commodity exchange hegemony
>we invented mass production and exited world war two with 60% of the world's gold AND we were the world's greatest creditor nation
Being lucky is much more important than working hard or being good.
We were lucky. Get over yourself. You didn't create your wealth, you inherited it.
haha, you know what. fair enough. i dont agree with you but i cant necessarily refute very much since its all conjecture. interesting though.
You must be a less successful CON$ervative!Well that certainly explains why Liberals are more financially successful than CON$.If you have talent, work hard, you succeed at life
If you don't ave talents, are lazy, and contribute nothing, you fail at life.
Economic darwinism; capitalism is simply the economic manifestation of freedom, liberty, and the rights to the fruit of your own labor. With the sky as the limit, a capitalist society is free to innovate due to open competition, and choices of the customer decides what business ventures succeed or fail.
Capitalism is what made the United States go from a third world back water country, to the moon in less than 200 years.
What exactly is wrong with capitalism?
Thank you.
You going to actually make a logical critique of capitalism or just gonna hop in, say something asinine, then hop out?
There doesn't have to be something "wrong" with capitalism to acknowledge that capitalism by itself didn't take us to the moon.
Amen
erroneous.
right, but spending tax money on engines for tanks and porn tapes are two different things. I dont mean spend recklessly but to help do its job as described in the enumerated powers clause. ok im really going to bed now.
Actually it's not different. The principle is always the same. Government spending destroys wealth because government takes money out of the private sector, which is where wealth is produced.
how else would government serve its function as maintaining boarder security and such?
Actually it was free enterprise combined with bountiful resources that produced America's phenomenal wealth. Not capitalism.Capitalism is what made the United States go from a third world back water country, to the moon in less than 200 years.
Laissez faire (unconstrained) capitalism is a ruthless system of controlling collective wealth. It is readily susceptible to the kind of manipulation which has produced the problems America is experiencing today.What exactly is wrong with capitalism?
I agree. Socialistically controlled capitalism, such as existed prior to Ronald Reagan, is a good system.[...]Capitalism with a social net to catch the ones who fall through the cracks is the best way to go. Always will be. No other way creates the wealth to sustain such high standards of living.
It also drives the kind of predatory exploitation which is returning us to the Gilded Age.Greed for profit drives innovation and growth.
Are you aware that the most impressive period of economic growth in America was attended by a progressive tax rate that reached to 94%?You put a cap on what one can make before they are taxed to death and you remove the incentive to make it big that drives our society. You remove the drive to innovate. You remove the major driving factor in wealth creation. No amount of Social Program, socialist government can be sustained with out a vibrant growing Private sector to pay the bills. Push to far to the left and the golden goose will die and all your dreams of a compassionate state where everyone gets the same chance and help if needed with die with it.
This is correct. Capitalism didn't take us to the moon, government did. Capitalism would have kept the money spent by the government to take us to the moon and kept it in the productive part of the economy, the private sector. Though the government wouldn't have been able to use that money to send us to the moon without capitalism largely driving the productive sector.
if you guys wanna nitpick, 90% of the technology in the military and NASA was developed by private companies and engineer research firms, fyi. The only thing that isn't is the specific software programming which the government hires themselves. the government then contracts with the firms and purchases their products. That's how jet fighters are made, for example. Private companies.
And would those "private" companies be producing jet fighters if the government wasn't supplying the demand for them? No, because there'd be no demand for them. They're of no use to the private sector, so those companies would have to start catering to the productive bit of the economy as opposed to the unproductive bit.
There is nothing wrong with the accumulation of wealth. But excessive wealth is corruptive and cannot be tolerated in a truly free and politically healthy society.
If you have talent, work hard, you succeed at life
If you don't ave talents, are lazy, and contribute nothing, you fail at life.
Economic darwinism; capitalism is simply the economic manifestation of freedom, liberty, and the rights to the fruit of your own labor. With the sky as the limit, a capitalist society is free to innovate due to open competition, and choices of the customer decides what business ventures succeed or fail.
Capitalism is what made the United States go from a third world back water country, to the moon in less than 200 years.
What exactly is wrong with capitalism?
Nothing.
If you have talent, work hard, you succeed at life
If you don't ave talents, are lazy, and contribute nothing, you fail at life.
Economic darwinism; capitalism is simply the economic manifestation of freedom, liberty, and the rights to the fruit of your own labor. With the sky as the limit, a capitalist society is free to innovate due to open competition, and choices of the customer decides what business ventures succeed or fail.
Capitalism is what made the United States go from a third world back water country, to the moon in less than 200 years.
What exactly is wrong with capitalism?
Nothing.
As long as it is regulated to not endanger We the People's safety and also to encourage the growth of the middle class, for that is where the republican strength of the U.S. comes.