Can you say "martinet"?

Fort Fun Indiana said:
There is nothing. He broke no rule whatsoever. And you would never think so, if not for your devotion to a single man.
Click to expand...
In matters of good order and discipline, the intent of the video contradicts your statement. The legality of the president's orders is not determined at the unit level. If Congress has questions they should be speaking to the appropriate members of the military, not making seditious statements to the rank and file. You loons will lose on this one.
 
Rogue AI said:
In matters of good order and discipline, the intent of the video contradicts your statement.
Click to expand...
Urging the soldiers to follow the UCMJ code and the Department of Defense Law of War Manual is not contrary to good discipline. In fact, it's the opposite. They are not just allowed to disobey unlawful orders, they MUST.

MAGA wants undisciplined, unethical solders that are loyal to Dear Leader.
 
Fort Fun Indiana said:
Some light reading... reposted from Lo_Stallone

Refusing an Unlawful Military Order: Your Legal Duty, Your Constitutional Right, and the Courage That Defines True Service​



refusing-an-unlawful-military-order-your-legal-duty-your-v0-kf3jwhkl6c6f1.png

Many U.S. service members are never told this clearly enough, or at all:


This is not insubordination. It’s not desertion. It’s not weakness. It is a legally protected act of courage that upholds the very oath you swore to the Constitution of the United States.

This post lays out everything:

  • What counts as an unlawful order
  • The exact UCMJ articles and their full legal language
  • Real-world military court precedents
  • Interpretations from military law
  • Resources and steps to protect yourself and others
If you're serving and something doesn’t feel right, or if you’ve ever wondered, “Would I be punished for refusing an illegal command?”, read this. The law is on your side.

What Makes an Order Unlawful?​

An unlawful order is any order that:

  • Violates U.S. federal law or the Constitution
  • Violates international law (such as the Geneva Conventions)
  • Requires or leads to war crimes, torture, violence against civilians, or discriminatory actions
  • Has no legitimate military objective or is abusive

UCMJ: What the Law Says​

Article 90 – Willfully Disobeying a Superior Commissioned Officer 10 U.S. Code § 890


Key: This only applies to lawful commands.

Article 91 – Insubordination Toward Warrant, NCO, or Petty Officer 10 U.S. Code § 891


Key: Again, the term lawful is crucial. Unlawful orders are not protected by this article.

Article 92 – Failure to Obey Order or Regulation 10 U.S. Code § 892


Key: Lawful orders only. Refusal of an unlawful order is not a violation.

Real Cases That Set the Standard​

United States v. Calley (1971) – My Lai Massacre Lt. William Calley was convicted for murdering unarmed Vietnamese civilians under orders.


United States v. Keenan (1969) Pfc. Keenan killed a civilian under a direct order from a sergeant.


Nuremberg Principle IV (International Law)​


Takeaway: If you can recognize that an order is wrong, you're not only allowed to refuse — you're expected to.

What to Do If You Receive an Unlawful Order​

  1. Ask for clarification Politely ask the superior to explain how the order aligns with UCMJ or ROE.
  2. Document everything Keep records: time, date, location, order content, witnesses, and your response.
  3. Report it Use your chain of command or report directly to the Inspector General (IG).
  4. Get legal help immediately Request a JAG attorney. Do not provide statements until you’ve been advised.

Legal Protection for Refusal and Reporting​

You are legally protected from retaliation for reporting unlawful actions.

10 U.S. Code § 1034 – Military Whistleblower Protection Act Protects service members who report:

  • Illegal orders
  • Violations of UCMJ or federal law
  • Fraud, abuse, or misconduct

Support Organizations You Can Contact​

GI Rights Hotline

Military Law Task Force (MLTF)

Center on Conscience & War

National Whistleblower Center

Mental and Emotional Support​

You’re not weak for being stressed — this is serious. These resources exist to support your well-being:

  • Military OneSource – 1-800-342-9647 (free, 24/7 counseling)
  • VA Vet Centers – Mental health, trauma, and moral injury help
  • Chaplains – 100% confidential spiritual support

Legal and Moral Foundations at a Glance​

  • UCMJ Articles 90, 91, 92: Only lawful orders are enforceable
  • DoD Law of War Manual § 18.6.1: Duty to disobey unlawful orders
  • Nuremberg Principle IV: You’re personally accountable under international law
  • 10 U.S. Code § 1034: You are protected if you speak out

Final Message to All Service Members​

You did not swear an oath to a commander. You swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States.

Following a clearly unlawful order doesn’t protect you — it makes you legally and morally responsible.

Refusing such an order is not insubordination. It is:

  • Leadership
  • Honor
  • Courage
  • Constitutionally backed military service
If you or someone you know is in this situation: speak up, write it down, seek support, and do not stay silent.

You are not alone. You are protected. And you are doing the right thing.

Please share, repost, and spread this to help educate support, and save our brothers and sisters in arms from becoming victims of ignorance​

Click to expand...
What orders exactly are you claiming are unlawful? You loons don't, instead you invite the rank and file to decide for themselves without regard to actual legality. This political stunt degrades the entire chain of command and invites mutinous behavior based on political beliefs not military doctrine.
 
Fort Fun Indiana said:
Urging the soldiers to follow the UCMJ code and the Department of Defense Law of War Manual is not contrary to good discipline. In fact, it's the opposite. They are not just allowed to disobey unlawful orders, they MUST.

MAGA wants undisciplined, unethical solders that are loyal to Dear Leader.
Click to expand...
That is not what is happening, as they cannot cite any problem, nor is that a Congressional matter. Separation of powers and such. Try harder.
 
Fort Fun Indiana said:
And every single recruit is told the same thing, as part of their training and has been for a long time. Looks like it's always left up to interpretation, then, and nothing at all has changed, and you're reaching.



Well, as one might guess, since literally every recruit is told exactly what they said as part of his or her training, someone thought of that already.

It's in the code. You can't just defy an order because you think something SHOULD be unlawful. Only if it is.
Click to expand...



"And every single recruit is told the same thing, as part of their training and has been for a long time."

Then what was the urgent need for these ex military people to join together and post this video? If every soldier knows this, then what is the purpose? unless they had some SPECIFIC point to address.

So can we have it please? they purposely left it open ended to sow discord and mistrust. They were not exactly protecting our service mebers here, by doing this WRONG they are creating scenarios where soldiers can try to interpret law on their own.. disobey orders and ruin their carreers, or there is a potential for violence among the ranks. SO the way I see it they were carelessly puting our military members at risk.
 
Fort Fun Indiana said:
Some light reading... reposted from Lo_Stallone

Refusing an Unlawful Military Order: Your Legal Duty, Your Constitutional Right, and the Courage That Defines True Service​



refusing-an-unlawful-military-order-your-legal-duty-your-v0-kf3jwhkl6c6f1.png

Many U.S. service members are never told this clearly enough, or at all:


This is not insubordination. It’s not desertion. It’s not weakness. It is a legally protected act of courage that upholds the very oath you swore to the Constitution of the United States.

This post lays out everything:

  • What counts as an unlawful order
  • The exact UCMJ articles and their full legal language
  • Real-world military court precedents
  • Interpretations from military law
  • Resources and steps to protect yourself and others
If you're serving and something doesn’t feel right, or if you’ve ever wondered, “Would I be punished for refusing an illegal command?”, read this. The law is on your side.

What Makes an Order Unlawful?​

An unlawful order is any order that:

  • Violates U.S. federal law or the Constitution
  • Violates international law (such as the Geneva Conventions)
  • Requires or leads to war crimes, torture, violence against civilians, or discriminatory actions
  • Has no legitimate military objective or is abusive

UCMJ: What the Law Says​

Article 90 – Willfully Disobeying a Superior Commissioned Officer 10 U.S. Code § 890


Key: This only applies to lawful commands.

Article 91 – Insubordination Toward Warrant, NCO, or Petty Officer 10 U.S. Code § 891


Key: Again, the term lawful is crucial. Unlawful orders are not protected by this article.

Article 92 – Failure to Obey Order or Regulation 10 U.S. Code § 892


Key: Lawful orders only. Refusal of an unlawful order is not a violation.

Real Cases That Set the Standard​

United States v. Calley (1971) – My Lai Massacre Lt. William Calley was convicted for murdering unarmed Vietnamese civilians under orders.


United States v. Keenan (1969) Pfc. Keenan killed a civilian under a direct order from a sergeant.


Nuremberg Principle IV (International Law)​


Takeaway: If you can recognize that an order is wrong, you're not only allowed to refuse — you're expected to.

What to Do If You Receive an Unlawful Order​

  1. Ask for clarification Politely ask the superior to explain how the order aligns with UCMJ or ROE.
  2. Document everything Keep records: time, date, location, order content, witnesses, and your response.
  3. Report it Use your chain of command or report directly to the Inspector General (IG).
  4. Get legal help immediately Request a JAG attorney. Do not provide statements until you’ve been advised.

Legal Protection for Refusal and Reporting​

You are legally protected from retaliation for reporting unlawful actions.

10 U.S. Code § 1034 – Military Whistleblower Protection Act Protects service members who report:

  • Illegal orders
  • Violations of UCMJ or federal law
  • Fraud, abuse, or misconduct

Support Organizations You Can Contact​

GI Rights Hotline

Military Law Task Force (MLTF)

Center on Conscience & War

National Whistleblower Center

Mental and Emotional Support​

You’re not weak for being stressed — this is serious. These resources exist to support your well-being:

  • Military OneSource – 1-800-342-9647 (free, 24/7 counseling)
  • VA Vet Centers – Mental health, trauma, and moral injury help
  • Chaplains – 100% confidential spiritual support

Legal and Moral Foundations at a Glance​

  • UCMJ Articles 90, 91, 92: Only lawful orders are enforceable
  • DoD Law of War Manual § 18.6.1: Duty to disobey unlawful orders
  • Nuremberg Principle IV: You’re personally accountable under international law
  • 10 U.S. Code § 1034: You are protected if you speak out

Final Message to All Service Members​

You did not swear an oath to a commander. You swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States.

Following a clearly unlawful order doesn’t protect you — it makes you legally and morally responsible.

Refusing such an order is not insubordination. It is:

  • Leadership
  • Honor
  • Courage
  • Constitutionally backed military service
If you or someone you know is in this situation: speak up, write it down, seek support, and do not stay silent.

You are not alone. You are protected. And you are doing the right thing.

Please share, repost, and spread this to help educate support, and save our brothers and sisters in arms from becoming victims of ignorance​

Click to expand...
How much of that did you actually read, IM2?
 
TemplarKormac said:
I'm going out on a limb here and saying you're using words you don't know the meaning of.

If you're trying to sow discord in the ranks with this broad plea to "ignore illegal orders" you are planting doubt in the minds of our military.

That is why there is a code for that in the UCMJ. If a court martial is what he needs, then so be it.

This tribal political stuff needs to stop.
Click to expand...

Donald Trump has been planting doubts in the military for years.
 
Rogue AI said:
What orders exactly are you claiming are unlawful?
Click to expand...
Any order that is in violation of the law. Any of them. I don't have to narrow this down, nor claim that trump has even issued any so far. Neither does anyone else.

Those are irrelevant talking points.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: IM2
Fort Fun Indiana said:
Any order that is in violation of the law. Any of them. I don't have to narrow this down, nor claim that trump has even issued any so far. Neither does anyone else.

Those are irrelevant talking points.
Click to expand...
Who determines what is or isn't unlawful? That is the problem you loons are ignoring. By making a blanket statement to the rank and file instead of going through the proper channels of the chain of command you invite mutiny and sedition based on no evidence whatsoever. That is why this lunacy is dangerous. If a district judge deems something 'unlawful' and is overturned the original order was in fact lawful. This is precisely why this nonsense does not belong in the public arena.
 
15th post
Fort Fun Indiana said:
The law does.

In the case of an officer brought to court, then the court does, by interpreting the law..
Click to expand...
Then why a blanket statement to all service members by members of Congress? It serves no possible purpose in regards to the legality of orders not given. You loons know this is to cause dissent and sedition. Sadly, you are too dishonest to admit it. How pathetic.
 
TemplarKormac said:
That is why there is a code for that in the UCMJ.
Click to expand...
No, there isn't. Stop making shit up.

I'm a 20 year vet, stooge. I spent more time on active duty and have more medals than our alcoholic Secretary of Defense.

Every lifer has known a clown like Hegseth.

You dipshits fucked up and ran with Bone Spur's bullshit claim of sedition and his call for the death penalty, and you don't have the integrity to admit he is wrong.

Dead wrong.

The only traitor in this picture is the one who attempted a coup.

And you think you aren't in a cult.
 
Rogue AI said:
Then why a blanket statement to all service members by members of Congress?
Click to expand...
Because a criminal sits in the Oval Office, and he is clearly testing the limits of his law and of his power.

Or because cherries are red.

Doesn't matter, it's protected speech.
 
Crepitus said:


I think he's just jealous because he doesn't even have so much as a CIB.

There's also the fact the hegseth is pretty much the lest respected sec-def in history.
Click to expand...

Moron doesn’t know how a mirror works.
 
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