Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

GreatestIam

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Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

These links speak to theistic evolution.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXOvYn1OAL0&list=UUDXjzOeZRqLxhYaaEhWLb_A&index=9]O Necessary Sin of Adam (Does Christian Theology Need Adam & Eve?) - YouTube[/ame]

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

If the above is not convincing enough for you then show me where in this baby evil lives or is a part of it’s nature and instincts.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA]Magazine - Can Babies Tell Right From Wrong? - nytimes.com/video - YouTube[/ame]

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL
 

HenryBHough

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In today's liberal society it's not that you are allowed to do evil; it's that you must be applauded for having done it since you chose to do it.

Equality of outcome; every contestant gets a blue ribbon for having participated.
 
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GreatestIam

GreatestIam

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According to Chasidic Judaism, we are born with the yetzer hara, the bad inclination, and the yetzer tov, the good inclnation.
Notice we are referring to inclinations, not nature, for Judaism does not believe in original sin, nor do we believe in salvation, according to Christianity, in order to atone for our sin, and reach heaven.
The evil inclination is stronger than the good inclinatiion.
Thus, we have the 613 commandments to weaken the evl inclination throufh practical "behavioral therapy."
Don Levit
Look at that baby clip again and come back and tell us we are born with a stronger inclination to evil when it shows exactly the opposite.

Evil is what we are taught by our peers as we grow. Our birth and natural inclination and nature is to cooperate and not compete. That is the good side. Not the evil one.

Jews are usually brighter than Christians can understand how their indoctrination into original sin might have them see babies as evil but you have no excuse.

Regards
DL
 

Glensather

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What determines what is good and evil to begin with? Would you determine good as what ultimately helps others, and evil what hurts others? Is good selfless and evil selfish?
 

Politico

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Of course you can not be evil. I do it every day.
 

Luddly Neddite

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Very telling that its the right that believes they just can't help but do evil while they're criticizing the left for working to end evil.



Instead of making excuses, how about just taking responsibility for what you say and do.




`
 

The Irish Ram

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Our Father addressed this issue. Every good thing is from God. Every evil from Satan. One is light, the other is dark.

To avoid evil do this:
And you must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.'
Not because God needs anything from us, but because those are the areas Satan attacks. Leave God out of any of those areas and you have a void that Satan is more than happy to inhabit.
For instance, doing an evil thing starts out with thinking about doing the evil thing.

But light and darkness cannot inhabit the same place at the same time. When light shows up darkness has no choice but to flee. Turn a lamp on in a dark room and what happens.

Keep your mind stayed on the Lord. Sing a song, say a prayer, have a conversion, memorize a verse and replay it in your mind, ask for and then empower the Holy Spirit to work in conjunction with our human spirit and with our soul, ask God to be strong for you where you are weak. (It is His specialty.) Put on the full armour of God. And when we fall short, re-pent, return to the Highest level where we belong. Repent means change your mind.

Paul even boasted about His weaknesses, so as to get more strength:

2 Corinthians 12:9
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.
God's armour is impenetrable:

Ephesians 6:11-20
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; < (Christ's not yours)

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
And don't beat yourself up when you stumble, because we do stumble. Christ will aways have your back.
 

Delta4Embassy

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I don't believe in good or evil beyond how they're descriptions of a behaviour that's ambiguous. Ultimately, there's just actions and consequences. If killing is wrong it could be said to also be evil, but are soldiers evil? Therein is the problem.
 
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GreatestIam

GreatestIam

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What determines what is good and evil to begin with? Would you determine good as what ultimately helps others, and evil what hurts others? Is good selfless and evil selfish?
You make all determinations as good and evil are subjective.

I can say yes to all the other issues you bring up.

Regards
DL
 

Truthmatters

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believing is myths is kinda evil because it keeps facts from being applied
 

Truthmatters

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If you have to refute facts to cling to the myth people will end up harmed by you
 
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GreatestIam

GreatestIam

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Very telling that its the right that believes they just can't help but do evil while they're criticizing the left for working to end evil.
[/IMG]

Instead of making excuses, how about just taking responsibility for what you say and do.

`
Exactly what I advocate and I am on the left.

Christians cannot though as they plan on putting all their responsibilities on Jesus and riding him as their scapegoat into heaven.

They are all going to end in hell for taking the low moral ground.

Regards
DL
 
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GreatestIam

GreatestIam

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Our Father addressed this issue. Every good thing is from God. Every evil from Satan. One is light, the other is dark.
.

Are you saying that Satan is a co-creator to God and wrote the evil side of the tree of good and evil?

If not God' co-creator then you must be wrong and have to admit, as scriptures do, that God is the creator of evil since his is said to have created al things.

Regards
DL
 

Pennywise

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Everything you do is a conscious decision so of course you can refuse to commit evils.
 

Truthmatters

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believing falsehoods helps no one.

Bad info in means bad decisions out
 
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GreatestIam

GreatestIam

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Everything you do is a conscious decision so of course you can refuse to commit evils.
:eusa_liar::eusa_liar:

Would you refuse a job you competed for knowing that the loser might go hungry?
Would you let your family go hungry to feed the other?

I doubt it. We do not even thin of these things a we compete to win.

Regard
DL
 

Pennywise

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Everything you do is a conscious decision so of course you can refuse to commit evils.
:eusa_liar::eusa_liar:

Would you refuse a job you competed for knowing that the loser might go hungry?
Would you let your family go hungry to feed the other?

I doubt it. We do not even thin of these things a we compete to win.

Regard
DL
Those are not questions of evil. I can sacrifice myself if I choose, but if I sacrifice my family, that's evil.

Competition is not evil.
 

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