Can you be religious and pro science and technology?

[PK1]

Haven't I just proven to you that space and time had a beginning? What do you believe caused space and time to exist? What do scientific advances & logical thinking tell us created space and time?

... I am discussing the evolution of matter from the big bang until today. Surely, a man as learned as you are aware of the stages of evolution of matter, are you not? Do you think that sequence could be any differently than it was?

I'll repeat ... I believe NO ONE knows about the ORIGINS of matter, esp before the theoretical BB singularity.
YES, we have theories on physical, biological, and cognitive evolution & their processes. Scientists continue their research on these topics for additional evidence & theoretical refinement, as well as further discoveries that may confirm ideas such as gravitons and dark energy/matter.

Why do you insist on an "easy button", like "God did it"?
Why can't you be honest & admit that you don't know?

 

[westwall]

I know a southern Baptist who served as a military officer who loves movies like The Martian, Star Wars, etc and TV shows like Babylon 5, Star Trek, and Battlestar Galactica.

Of course. The majority of religious people I know are very tech savvy, and we talk science all of the time. Very, very pro science.

 

[Divine Wind]

There's a Grand Canyon size difference between the BB theory and 2+2=4 fact. The latter is, in addition to logical, also observable by all and predictable with 100% probability.

Incorrect. Are you a Bible literalist? How old do you think the Universe is? Do you understand that the Universe is not only expanding, but accelerating in that expansion?

What Is The Evidence For The Big Bang? - Universe Today

Almost all astronomers agree on the theory of the Big Bang, that the entire Universe is spreading apart, with distant galaxies speeding away from us in all directions. Run the clock backwards to 13.8 billion years ago, and everything in the Cosmos started out as a single point in space. In an instant, everything expanded outward from that location, forming the energy, atoms and eventually the stars and galaxies we see today. But to call this concept merely a theory is to misjudge the overwhelming amount of evidence.

There are separate lines of evidence, each of which independently points towards this as the origin story for our Universe. The first came with the amazing discovery that almost all galaxies are moving away from us.

In 1912, Vesto Slipher calculated the speed and direction of “spiral nebulae” by measuring the change in the wavelengths of light coming from them. He realized that most of them were moving away from us. We now know these objects are galaxies, but a century ago astronomers thought these vast collections of stars might actually be within the Milky Way.

In 1924, Edwin Hubble figured out that these galaxies are actually outside the Milky Way. He observed a special type of variable star that has a direct relationship between its energy output and the time it takes to pulse in brightness. By finding these variable stars in other galaxies, he was able to calculate how far away they were. Hubble discovered that all these galaxies are outside our own Milky Way, millions of light-years away.

So, if these galaxies are far, far away, and moving quickly away from us, this suggests that the entire Universe must have been located in a single point billions of years ago. The second line of evidence came from the abundance of elements we see around us.

In the earliest moments after the Big Bang, there was nothing more than hydrogen compressed into a tiny volume, with crazy high heat and pressure. The entire Universe was acting like the core of a star, fusing hydrogen into helium and other elements.

This is known as Big Bang Nucleosynthesis. As astronomers look out into the Universe and measure the ratios of hydrogen, helium and other trace elements, they exactly match what you would expect to find if the entire Universe was once a really big star.

Line of evidence number 3: cosmic microwave background radiation. In the 1960s, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson were experimenting with a 6-meter radio telescope, and discovered a background radio emission that was coming from every direction in the sky – day or night. From what they could tell, the entire sky measured a few degrees above absolute zero.


WMAP data of the Cosmic Microwave Background. Credit: NASA

Theories predicted that after a Big Bang, there would have been a tremendous release of radiation. And now, billions of years later, this radiation would be moving so fast away from us that the wavelength of this radiation would have been shifted from visible light to the microwave background radiation we see today.

The final line of evidence is the formation of galaxies and the large scale structure of the cosmos. About 10,000 years after the Big Bang, the Universe cooled to the point that the gravitational attraction of matter was the dominant form of energy density in the Universe. This mass was able to collect together into the first stars, galaxies and eventually the large scale structures we see across the Universe today.

These are known as the 4 pillars of the Big Bang Theory. Four independent lines of evidence that build up one of the most influential and well-supported theories in all of cosmology. But there are more lines of evidence. There are fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background radiation, we don’t see any stars older than 13.8 billion years, the discoveries of dark matter and dark energy, along with how the light curves from distant supernovae.

So, even though it’s a theory, we should regard it the same way that we regard gravity, evolution and general relativity. We have a pretty good idea of what’s going on, and we’ve come up with a good way to understand and explain it. As time progresses we’ll come up with more inventive experiments to throw at. We’ll refine our understanding and the theory that goes along with it.

Most importantly, we can have confidence when talking about what we know about the early stages of our magnificent Universe and why we understand it to be true.

Podcast (audio): Download (Duration: 5:21 — 4.9MB)

 

[Divine Wind]

As you know, I take the agnostic position with regard to initial life origins.

A different matter than the Big Bang since, while there are theories, there is no evidence proving how life began in the Universe. Personally, I'm inclined to believe life is rare, but possible to generate under the correct conditions. It goes with the idea that a million monkeys with a million typewriters over a million years will eventually see one produce the entire works of Shakespeare. In a large Universe like ours, it's possible for life to self-generate given time and the proper conditions. For all we know, we're the only life in the entire Milky Way galaxy, but since the Universe has over 100 Billion galaxies and galaxies have 100-400 Billion stars, the odds are we are not the only life forms around. However, current evidence indicates life is rare.

How Many Stars in the Milky Way? | NASA Blueshift

 

[Mudda]

The world was proven by science to have not been made in 6 days, among a ton of other things. You even had to move your own goalposts to try to accommodate it.

The Bible tells us that Creation had a beginning. Science tells us that 14 billion years ago our universe started in a hot dense state “roughly a million billion billion times smaller than a single atom” and expanded and cooled.

Science tells us that this universe started 14 billion years ago. It makes no mention if this is the beginning of everything, because to know if something was already existing before the BB is not knowable at this point in time. The creation story of the bible is a pure guess that it can't prove.

Actually science does tell us that space and time came into existence. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics precludes an infinite universe AND all the laws of physics break down at the event horizon which means that space and time did not exist before the expansion. There was no space and time, Einstein. SPACE AND TIME DID HAVE A BEGINNING.

Our space and time may have had a beginning, but other universes may have already existed. Science doesn't definitively speak to this except for new theories being developed.

WTF are you talking about other universes? For a gal that demands proof of everything, you sure did drop your panties pretty fast for a 2nd universe. Newsflash... whatever is outside of our space time envelope is unobservable. You literally can't see it or reach it. Space time is curved.

Says the guy who thinks there's an invisible superhero outside our visible universe. lol.
Multiverses are a new theory by scientists, look it up.

 

[Mudda]

Science disproves the bible, Torah and Koran in many place. So to the OP, no.

No. It doesn't. God loves science. He created it. We can use science t better understand what He has created.

Those three books are at odds with science. It's a fact.

Nope. Sorry, you are wrong again.

The world was proven by science to have not been made in 6 days, among a ton of other things. You even had to move your own goalposts to try to accommodate it.

Now that I have established that Creation (i.e. the universe) had a beginning as told by the Bible....

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The bible says that everything including humans was created in six days. Loser.

 

[Divine Wind]

The Bible tells us that Creation had a beginning. Science tells us that 14 billion years ago our universe started in a hot dense state “roughly a million billion billion times smaller than a single atom” and expanded and cooled.

Science tells us that this universe started 14 billion years ago. It makes no mention if this is the beginning of everything, because to know if something was already existing before the BB is not knowable at this point in time. The creation story of the bible is a pure guess that it can't prove.

Actually science does tell us that space and time came into existence. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics precludes an infinite universe AND all the laws of physics break down at the event horizon which means that space and time did not exist before the expansion. There was no space and time, Einstein. SPACE AND TIME DID HAVE A BEGINNING.

Our space and time may have had a beginning, but other universes may have already existed. Science doesn't definitively speak to this except for new theories being developed.

WTF are you talking about other universes? For a gal that demands proof of everything, you sure did drop your panties pretty fast for a 2nd universe. Newsflash... whatever is outside of our space time envelope is unobservable. You literally can't see it or reach it. Space time is curved.

Says the guy who thinks there's an invisible superhero outside our visible universe. lol.
Multiverses are a new theory by scientists, look it up.

About 90% of humanity believes there is a spiritual side to existence. As for multiverses, while alternate realities, different planes of existence, interdimensional travel and such are interesting theories, there is as much proof of those theories as there is "an invisible superhero outside our visible universe". LOL

The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050

 

[Divine Wind]

No. It doesn't. God loves science. He created it. We can use science t better understand what He has created.

Those three books are at odds with science. It's a fact.

Nope. Sorry, you are wrong again.

The world was proven by science to have not been made in 6 days, among a ton of other things. You even had to move your own goalposts to try to accommodate it.

Now that I have established that Creation (i.e. the universe) had a beginning as told by the Bible....

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The bible says that everything including humans was created in six days. Loser.

Yes it does. How would you explain it to a bunch of illiterate desert nomads?

 

[Mudda]

Science tells us that this universe started 14 billion years ago. It makes no mention if this is the beginning of everything, because to know if something was already existing before the BB is not knowable at this point in time. The creation story of the bible is a pure guess that it can't prove.

Actually science does tell us that space and time came into existence. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics precludes an infinite universe AND all the laws of physics break down at the event horizon which means that space and time did not exist before the expansion. There was no space and time, Einstein. SPACE AND TIME DID HAVE A BEGINNING.

Our space and time may have had a beginning, but other universes may have already existed. Science doesn't definitively speak to this except for new theories being developed.

WTF are you talking about other universes? For a gal that demands proof of everything, you sure did drop your panties pretty fast for a 2nd universe. Newsflash... whatever is outside of our space time envelope is unobservable. You literally can't see it or reach it. Space time is curved.

Says the guy who thinks there's an invisible superhero outside our visible universe. lol.
Multiverses are a new theory by scientists, look it up.

About 90% of humanity believes there is a spiritual side to existence. As for multiverses, while alternate realities, different planes of existence, interdimensional travel and such are interesting theories, there is as much proof of those theories as there is "an invisible superhero outside our visible universe". LOL

The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050

90%+ of the world's people are stupid.

Scientists are toying with the multiverse idea because of what they are observing is leading them to such a theory. I'm simply pointing out to dingbat that he's moved the religious goalposts already at least once to accommodate current science, and that in the future, he may have to move them again.

 

[Mudda]

Those three books are at odds with science. It's a fact.

Nope. Sorry, you are wrong again.

The world was proven by science to have not been made in 6 days, among a ton of other things. You even had to move your own goalposts to try to accommodate it.

Now that I have established that Creation (i.e. the universe) had a beginning as told by the Bible....

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The bible says that everything including humans was created in six days. Loser.

Yes it does. How would you explain it to a bunch of illiterate desert nomads?

So you agree that the bible is wrong. Good for you.

 

[ding]

Why do you insist on an "easy button", like "God did it"?

If it were the easy button we wouldn't be having this discussion. The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. Why do I believe it is God? Because I have seen how He works in my life when I seek Him and I have studied what He has created. What evidence do you have that He does not exist?

 

[ding]

The Bible tells us that Creation had a beginning. Science tells us that 14 billion years ago our universe started in a hot dense state “roughly a million billion billion times smaller than a single atom” and expanded and cooled.

Science tells us that this universe started 14 billion years ago. It makes no mention if this is the beginning of everything, because to know if something was already existing before the BB is not knowable at this point in time. The creation story of the bible is a pure guess that it can't prove.

Actually science does tell us that space and time came into existence. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics precludes an infinite universe AND all the laws of physics break down at the event horizon which means that space and time did not exist before the expansion. There was no space and time, Einstein. SPACE AND TIME DID HAVE A BEGINNING.

Our space and time may have had a beginning, but other universes may have already existed. Science doesn't definitively speak to this except for new theories being developed.

WTF are you talking about other universes? For a gal that demands proof of everything, you sure did drop your panties pretty fast for a 2nd universe. Newsflash... whatever is outside of our space time envelope is unobservable. You literally can't see it or reach it. Space time is curved.

Says the guy who thinks there's an invisible superhero outside our visible universe. lol.
Multiverses are a new theory by scientists, look it up.

Yes, I do believe there is a higher power than man. So what? We know that our intelligence exists. Is it so hard for you to imagine something greater than us exists? The universe has become self aware. The universe behaves as a self referential system.

Your Brain Is the Universe -- Part 1 | The Huffington Post

Physicists Examine Consciousness & Conclude The Universe Is ‘Spiritual, Immaterial & Mental’

 

[ding]

No. It doesn't. God loves science. He created it. We can use science t better understand what He has created.

Those three books are at odds with science. It's a fact.

Nope. Sorry, you are wrong again.

The world was proven by science to have not been made in 6 days, among a ton of other things. You even had to move your own goalposts to try to accommodate it.

Now that I have established that Creation (i.e. the universe) had a beginning as told by the Bible....

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The bible says that everything including humans was created in six days. Loser.

Then stop reading the allegorical books literally and you won't have that problem.

 

[Divine Wind]

90%+ of the world's people are stupid.....

Obviously you place yourself in the top 10%. Interesting.

 

[Mudda]

Science tells us that this universe started 14 billion years ago. It makes no mention if this is the beginning of everything, because to know if something was already existing before the BB is not knowable at this point in time. The creation story of the bible is a pure guess that it can't prove.

Actually science does tell us that space and time came into existence. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics precludes an infinite universe AND all the laws of physics break down at the event horizon which means that space and time did not exist before the expansion. There was no space and time, Einstein. SPACE AND TIME DID HAVE A BEGINNING.

Our space and time may have had a beginning, but other universes may have already existed. Science doesn't definitively speak to this except for new theories being developed.

WTF are you talking about other universes? For a gal that demands proof of everything, you sure did drop your panties pretty fast for a 2nd universe. Newsflash... whatever is outside of our space time envelope is unobservable. You literally can't see it or reach it. Space time is curved.

Says the guy who thinks there's an invisible superhero outside our visible universe. lol.
Multiverses are a new theory by scientists, look it up.

Yes, I do believe there is a higher power than man. So what? We know that our intelligence exists. Is it so hard for you to imagine something greater than us exists? The universe has become self aware. The universe behaves as a self referential system.

Your Brain Is the Universe -- Part 1 | The Huffington Post

Physicists Examine Consciousness & Conclude The Universe Is ‘Spiritual, Immaterial & Mental’

I'm agnostic, I can imagine a higher power than what's in this universe, you simply have no proof, as usual. If you ever get any real proof, I'm open to changing my mind in front of such real proof. can't be any fairer than that.

 

[Mudda]

Those three books are at odds with science. It's a fact.

Nope. Sorry, you are wrong again.

The world was proven by science to have not been made in 6 days, among a ton of other things. You even had to move your own goalposts to try to accommodate it.

Now that I have established that Creation (i.e. the universe) had a beginning as told by the Bible....

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The bible says that everything including humans was created in six days. Loser.

Then stop reading the allegorical books literally and you won't have that problem.

The creation story is either allegorical or it isn't. You can't say that they nailed the BB and then say, but the stuff right after it isn't true. You're the Ultimate Cherrypicker.

 

[Mudda]

90%+ of the world's people are stupid.....

Obviously you place yourself in the top 10%. Interesting.

It's often a curse, because pretty much everyone around you is a retard, and it can get really annoying, lol.

 

[Divine Wind]

90%+ of the world's people are stupid.....

Obviously you place yourself in the top 10%. Interesting.

It's often a curse, because pretty much everyone around you is a retard, and it can get really annoying, lol.

Truly smart people often work smarter, not harder.

I've noticed that a lot of mentally ill people think they are 100% sane and that all others are insane. They see themselves as being both different and much, much better than average. This view of themselves is rarely supported by factual evidence such as works, wealth or other substantive accomplishments. It's supported solely by their claim of it being so.

 

[Mudda]

90%+ of the world's people are stupid.....

Obviously you place yourself in the top 10%. Interesting.

It's often a curse, because pretty much everyone around you is a retard, and it can get really annoying, lol.

Truly smart people often work smarter, not harder.

I've noticed that a lot of mentally ill people think they are 100% sane and that all others are insane. They see themselves as being both different and much, much better than average. This view of themselves is rarely supported by factual evidence such as works, wealth or other substantive accomplishments. It's supported solely by their claim of it being so.

Well, at least you recognize your limitations. Good for you.

 

[Divine Wind]

I'm agnostic, I can imagine a higher power than what's in this universe, you simply have no proof, as usual. If you ever get any real proof, I'm open to changing my mind in front of such real proof. can't be any fairer than that.

Yet you seemed to readily accept the theory of multiverses without a shred of evidence. Why?

As it is, there is no evidence of anything outside our natural universe, but I have faith there is something beyond the visible.