Can you be religious and pro science and technology?

[PK1]

Our space and time may have had a beginning, but other universes may have already existed. Science doesn't definitively speak to this except for new theories being developed.

WTF are you talking about other universes?
... whatever is outside of our space time envelope is unobservable. You literally can't see it or reach it.

The Big Bang theory is a theory, based on evidence from observations of our expanding universe (galaxies, etc).
No one knows what really happened about 15 billion years ago, and it could be theorized that other "universes" exist besides the one developed from our theoretical singularity.
All these possibilities are "natural", unless there is evidence to the contrary with "rational" concepts/definitions.

 

[ding]

We aren't talking about the NT, Einstein.

While I agree, to Christians, isn't the NT all that matters? If not, why do so many people offer only the "Good News" section of the Bible?

Are you sure that isn't just your perception? We read a passage from the Old Testament at every Mass.

Okay. I can be wrong. You tell me which parts of the OT apply and which do not....or do they all apply?

What do you mean by apply? All of the OT stands, just like the NT stands. They just have to be read and understood in the context of their day. If you don't understand the proper context, it doesn't make much sense.

 

[PK1]

science is a systematic method of study for areas within our natural universe.

Religion is a means of studying the spiritual, something far beyond the realm of science. Religions are not the end, but a means to an end. The end being spiritual awareness. Like wisdom, it's something many people acknowledge exists, but is not tangible enough to be readily studied and understood by science.

I agree with your 1st paragraph (that i quoted) on the realm of science.
However, religions are no more than poor attempts at exercising ancient philosophy. The idea that there is something beyond the "natural" called "spiritual" is feeble at best.
The concept of "spiritual awareness" is BS to the max; a made-up idea to pretend one knows something.

In the science world, that BS is known as "God of the gaps", whereby "spiritual" explanations are invented to cover those areas that science cannot yet address.
In ancient times, lightning bolts were from a god. If Moses saw a preacher on TV in the year 2016, he would be sure he was seeing "God".

No. Spiritual awareness is not BS and has practical applications in this world such as progressing as a human being. That's pretty much what it is about.

You have to do better than "practical applications" and "progressing as a human being".
Sounds like BS to me.

 

[ding]

Our space and time may have had a beginning, but other universes may have already existed. Science doesn't definitively speak to this except for new theories being developed.

WTF are you talking about other universes?
... whatever is outside of our space time envelope is unobservable. You literally can't see it or reach it.

The Big Bang theory is a theory, based on evidence from observations of our expanding universe (galaxies, etc).
No one knows what really happened about 15 billion years ago, and it could be theorized that other "universes" exist besides the one developed from our theoretical singularity.
All these possibilities are "natural", unless there is evidence to the contrary with "rational" concepts/definitions.

Ummm.... all models have the universe at a hot dense state. Why? Because that is what the observable data shows and the general theory of relativity predicts. No one disputes that if you back the show up we end (i.e. where the equations fittingly yield infinities) with the universe starting in a hot dense state that occupied the space of “roughly a million billion billion times smaller than a single atom.” All of the models. Every single one. What was outside of that space is completely unknown and unknowable. Nor does it matter because for THIS universe space and time had a beginning.

 

[ding]

science is a systematic method of study for areas within our natural universe.

Religion is a means of studying the spiritual, something far beyond the realm of science. Religions are not the end, but a means to an end. The end being spiritual awareness. Like wisdom, it's something many people acknowledge exists, but is not tangible enough to be readily studied and understood by science.

I agree with your 1st paragraph (that i quoted) on the realm of science.
However, religions are no more than poor attempts at exercising ancient philosophy. The idea that there is something beyond the "natural" called "spiritual" is feeble at best.
The concept of "spiritual awareness" is BS to the max; a made-up idea to pretend one knows something.

In the science world, that BS is known as "God of the gaps", whereby "spiritual" explanations are invented to cover those areas that science cannot yet address.
In ancient times, lightning bolts were from a god. If Moses saw a preacher on TV in the year 2016, he would be sure he was seeing "God".

No. Spiritual awareness is not BS and has practical applications in this world such as progressing as a human being. That's pretty much what it is about.

You have to do better than "practical applications" and "progressing as a human being".
Sounds like BS to me.

Ummmm.... no, I don't have to do better. I couldn't give a shit what you do. In fact, given our past exchanges, I just as soon you not progress as a human being. Normalization of deviance leads to predictable surprises.

 

[ding]

Science disproves the bible, Torah and Koran in many place. So to the OP, no.

No. It doesn't. God loves science. He created it. We can use science t better understand what He has created.

Those three books are at odds with science. It's a fact.

Nope. Sorry, you are wrong again.

The world was proven by science to have not been made in 6 days, among a ton of other things. You even had to move your own goalposts to try to accommodate it.

Now that I have established that Creation (i.e. the universe) had a beginning as told by the Bible....

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

 

[Divine Wind]

The Big Bang theory is a theory, based on evidence from observations of our expanding universe (galaxies, etc).
No one knows what really happened about 15 billion years ago, and it could be theorized that other "universes" exist besides the one developed from our theoretical singularity.
All these possibilities are "natural", unless there is evidence to the contrary with "rational" concepts/definitions.

We have observations and brains. Sure, we can be wrong, but if you really want to doubt 2 + 2 = 4, go ahead.

 

[PK1]

The Big Bang theory is a theory, based on evidence from observations of our expanding universe (galaxies, etc).
No one knows what really happened about 15 billion years ago, and it could be theorized that other "universes" exist besides the one developed from our theoretical singularity.
All these possibilities are "natural", unless there is evidence to the contrary with "rational" concepts/definitions.

We have observations and brains. Sure, we can be wrong, but if you really want to doubt 2 + 2 = 4, go ahead.

There's a Grand Canyon size difference between the BB theory and 2+2=4 fact. The latter is, in addition to logical, also observable by all and predictable with 100% probability.

 

[ding]

The Big Bang theory is a theory, based on evidence from observations of our expanding universe (galaxies, etc).
No one knows what really happened about 15 billion years ago, and it could be theorized that other "universes" exist besides the one developed from our theoretical singularity.
All these possibilities are "natural", unless there is evidence to the contrary with "rational" concepts/definitions.

We have observations and brains. Sure, we can be wrong, but if you really want to doubt 2 + 2 = 4, go ahead.

There's a Grand Canyon size difference between the BB theory and 2+2=4 fact. The latter is, in addition to logical, also observable by all and predictable with 100% probability.

Origins: CERN: Ideas: The Big Bang | Exploratorium

 

[PK1]

science is a systematic method of study for areas within our natural universe.

Religion is a means of studying the spiritual, something far beyond the realm of science. Religions are not the end, but a means to an end. The end being spiritual awareness. Like wisdom, it's something many people acknowledge exists, but is not tangible enough to be readily studied and understood by science.

I agree with your 1st paragraph (that i quoted) on the realm of science.
However, religions are no more than poor attempts at exercising ancient philosophy. The idea that there is something beyond the "natural" called "spiritual" is feeble at best.
The concept of "spiritual awareness" is BS to the max; a made-up idea to pretend one knows something.
In the science world, that BS is known as "God of the gaps", whereby "spiritual" explanations are invented to cover those areas that science cannot yet address.
In ancient times, lightning bolts were from a god. If Moses saw a preacher on TV in the year 2016, he would be sure he was seeing "God".

No. Spiritual awareness is not BS and has practical applications in this world such as progressing as a human being. That's pretty much what it is about.

You have to do better than "practical applications" and "progressing as a human being".
Sounds like BS to me.

Ummmm.... no, I don't have to do better. I couldn't give a shit what you do. In fact, given our past exchanges, I just as soon you not progress as a human being. Normalization of deviance leads to predictable surprises.

In the science world, a modern "human being" is defined as an animal grouped in the sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens.
Can you define the meaning of "human being" in your BS/deviance world?

 

[ding]

science is a systematic method of study for areas within our natural universe.

Religion is a means of studying the spiritual, something far beyond the realm of science. Religions are not the end, but a means to an end. The end being spiritual awareness. Like wisdom, it's something many people acknowledge exists, but is not tangible enough to be readily studied and understood by science.

I agree with your 1st paragraph (that i quoted) on the realm of science.
However, religions are no more than poor attempts at exercising ancient philosophy. The idea that there is something beyond the "natural" called "spiritual" is feeble at best.
The concept of "spiritual awareness" is BS to the max; a made-up idea to pretend one knows something.
In the science world, that BS is known as "God of the gaps", whereby "spiritual" explanations are invented to cover those areas that science cannot yet address.
In ancient times, lightning bolts were from a god. If Moses saw a preacher on TV in the year 2016, he would be sure he was seeing "God".

No. Spiritual awareness is not BS and has practical applications in this world such as progressing as a human being. That's pretty much what it is about.

You have to do better than "practical applications" and "progressing as a human being".
Sounds like BS to me.

Ummmm.... no, I don't have to do better. I couldn't give a shit what you do. In fact, given our past exchanges, I just as soon you not progress as a human being. Normalization of deviance leads to predictable surprises.

In the science world, a modern "human being" is defined as an animal grouped in the sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens.
Can you define the meaning of "human being" in your BS/deviance world?

BS/deviance world? No, normalization of deviance. That's when a standard is lowered and the difference between the previous standard and the new, lower standard is normalized.

You are more than an animal, you are the universe itself becoming self aware. That is slightly more than an animal. So let's use that as a definition, ok? Beings that know and create. Will that work for you?

 

[PK1]

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The Bible is mythological folklore.
How can anyone take that crap seriously in modern times?

 

[PK1]

I agree with your 1st paragraph (that i quoted) on the realm of science.
However, religions are no more than poor attempts at exercising ancient philosophy. The idea that there is something beyond the "natural" called "spiritual" is feeble at best.
The concept of "spiritual awareness" is BS to the max; a made-up idea to pretend one knows something.
In the science world, that BS is known as "God of the gaps", whereby "spiritual" explanations are invented to cover those areas that science cannot yet address.
In ancient times, lightning bolts were from a god. If Moses saw a preacher on TV in the year 2016, he would be sure he was seeing "God".

No. Spiritual awareness is not BS and has practical applications in this world such as progressing as a human being. That's pretty much what it is about.

You have to do better than "practical applications" and "progressing as a human being".
Sounds like BS to me.

Ummmm.... no, I don't have to do better. I couldn't give a shit what you do. In fact, given our past exchanges, I just as soon you not progress as a human being. Normalization of deviance leads to predictable surprises.

In the science world, a modern "human being" is defined as an animal grouped in the sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens.
Can you define the meaning of "human being" in your BS/deviance world?

BS/deviance world? No, normalization of deviance. That's when a standard is lowered and the difference between the previous standard and the new, lower standard is normalized.
You are more than an animal, you are the universe itself becoming self aware. That is slightly more than an animal. So let's use that as a definition, ok? Beings that know and create. Will that work for you?

Human beings ARE animals that have self-awareness and ability to create and communicate at relatively advanced levels.
In modern times with scientific advances, religion is an example of "normalization of deviance" within a culture.

 

[ding]

No. Spiritual awareness is not BS and has practical applications in this world such as progressing as a human being. That's pretty much what it is about.

You have to do better than "practical applications" and "progressing as a human being".
Sounds like BS to me.

Ummmm.... no, I don't have to do better. I couldn't give a shit what you do. In fact, given our past exchanges, I just as soon you not progress as a human being. Normalization of deviance leads to predictable surprises.

In the science world, a modern "human being" is defined as an animal grouped in the sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens.
Can you define the meaning of "human being" in your BS/deviance world?

BS/deviance world? No, normalization of deviance. That's when a standard is lowered and the difference between the previous standard and the new, lower standard is normalized.
You are more than an animal, you are the universe itself becoming self aware. That is slightly more than an animal. So let's use that as a definition, ok? Beings that know and create. Will that work for you?

Human beings ARE animals that have self-awareness and ability to create and communicate at relatively advanced levels.
In modern times with scientific advances, religion is an example of "normalization of deviance" within a culture.

Do you see any other animals that have created a technological civilization and are studying the origin of the universe?

How is religion a normalization of deviance within a culture exactly?

 

[ding]

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The Bible is mythological folklore.
How can anyone take that crap seriously in modern times?

The account of Genesis is allegorical. It correctly describes that the universe had a beginning and what we see before us was done in steps. Surely you take the science that the universe had a beginning and that what we see before us was the result of natural processes that had to unfold in a specific sequence.

 

[PK1]

You have to do better than "practical applications" and "progressing as a human being".
Sounds like BS to me.

Ummmm.... no, I don't have to do better. I couldn't give a shit what you do. In fact, given our past exchanges, I just as soon you not progress as a human being. Normalization of deviance leads to predictable surprises.

In the science world, a modern "human being" is defined as an animal grouped in the sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens.
Can you define the meaning of "human being" in your BS/deviance world?

BS/deviance world? No, normalization of deviance. That's when a standard is lowered and the difference between the previous standard and the new, lower standard is normalized.
You are more than an animal, you are the universe itself becoming self aware. That is slightly more than an animal. So let's use that as a definition, ok? Beings that know and create. Will that work for you?

Human beings ARE animals that have self-awareness and ability to create and communicate at relatively advanced levels.
In modern times with scientific advances, religion is an example of "normalization of deviance" within a culture.

Do you see any other animals that have created a technological civilization and are studying the origin of the universe?
How is religion a normalization of deviance exactly within a culture exactly?

My A to your Q1: No.

My A to your Q2:
The "deviance" i am referring to is relative to modern philosophy (epistemology, mind) and science in civilized cultures.
Cultural traditions may be the norm, such as in religious nations that practice mindless behaviors such as in Islam & Christianity, but compared to scientific advances & logical thinking, they are deviant.

 

[PK1]

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The Bible is mythological folklore.
How can anyone take that crap seriously in modern times?

The account of Genesis is allegorical. It correctly describes that the universe had a beginning and what we see before us was done in steps. Surely you take the science that the universe had a beginning and that what we see before us was the result of natural processes that had to unfold in a specific sequence.

As you know, I take the agnostic position with regard to initial life origins.

 

[ding]

Ummmm.... no, I don't have to do better. I couldn't give a shit what you do. In fact, given our past exchanges, I just as soon you not progress as a human being. Normalization of deviance leads to predictable surprises.

In the science world, a modern "human being" is defined as an animal grouped in the sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens.
Can you define the meaning of "human being" in your BS/deviance world?

BS/deviance world? No, normalization of deviance. That's when a standard is lowered and the difference between the previous standard and the new, lower standard is normalized.
You are more than an animal, you are the universe itself becoming self aware. That is slightly more than an animal. So let's use that as a definition, ok? Beings that know and create. Will that work for you?

Human beings ARE animals that have self-awareness and ability to create and communicate at relatively advanced levels.
In modern times with scientific advances, religion is an example of "normalization of deviance" within a culture.

Do you see any other animals that have created a technological civilization and are studying the origin of the universe?
How is religion a normalization of deviance exactly within a culture exactly?

My A to your Q1: No.

My A to your Q2:
The "deviance" i am referring to is relative to modern philosophy (epistemology, mind) and science in civilized cultures.
Cultural traditions may be the norm, such as in religious nations that practice mindless behaviors such as in Islam & Christianity, but compared to scientific advances & logical thinking, they are deviant.

I see, so you have decided to be the arbiter of logical thinking? Haven't I just proven to you that space and time had a beginning? What do you believe caused space and time to exist? What do scientific advances & logical thinking tell us created space and time?

 

[ding]

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The Bible is mythological folklore.
How can anyone take that crap seriously in modern times?

The account of Genesis is allegorical. It correctly describes that the universe had a beginning and what we see before us was done in steps. Surely you take the science that the universe had a beginning and that what we see before us was the result of natural processes that had to unfold in a specific sequence.

As you know, I take the agnostic position with regard to initial life origins.

Why would you do that? Do you believe life originated through a special creative act of God? Of course you don't. But I am not talking specifically about the origin of life here. I am discussing the evolution of matter from the big bang until today. Surely, a man as learned as you are aware of the stages of evolution of matter, are you not? Do you think that sequence could be any differently than it was? Of course it couldn't. You don't need for me to describe the stages of the evolution of matter for you, do you?

 

[Andylusion]

I know a southern Baptist who served as a military officer who loves movies like The Martian, Star Wars, etc and TV shows like Babylon 5, Star Trek, and Battlestar Galactica.

First, most of the movies you listed, have absolutely nothing to do with science, so I was a little confused. You seem to imply between the title and the first post, that science-fiction, is something other than...... Fiction.

There is nothing anti-G-d, or anti-religious about story telling, or science, or technology.

Now the story itself, can be anti-G-d, or Anti-religious, and many times are. Where the person of faith is depicted as some weak doormat, or a zealous buffoon, or just outright evil. As if no people of science and technology have ever been weak, buffoons, or evil.

But science and technology, is not anti-G-d. In fact, many people of faith, work in high end technology.

Portable 'blood test in a box' gives instant diagnoses - CNN.com

This is a portable instant blood test device. Prick your finger real quick, one drop of blood on the scanner, instant test for hundreds of diseases.

The technology used to create this device, was made over a decade ago. I know this, because I met the man who created it. He came to our Men Spring Retreat sponsored by my parents church, and he taught a sermon on how he started off at MIT, came to our church, and became a Christian. Our pastor met with him, because he intended to quit MIT and become a preacher. Our pastor said looking at his grades, and his skill set, that he had been given a gift to help people in a different way, and convinced him to stay at MIT.

He now has FOUR Ph.Ds. And is a devout Evangelical Christian. He discovered a way to allow a microchip to analyze electrical pulses to find DNA patterns. Thus it can detect many genetic traces in blood, like that of certain diseases. (do not ask me about it, he only glazed over the technical details, and I'm in no way qualified to explain it)

Of course that was around 2004, and thanks to the FDA protecting us from cures and benefits, it's taken over a decade to get to market.

But the point is, his faith led him to create a technology that could be used to help people around the world. It didn't some how prevent him from being involved in science or technology. That isn't even logical, since G-d is the one who created all of the laws of physics and science that we know.

In fact all of the foundations of science we have today, came from the theological seminaries of the past. Originally, all institutions of learning were religious institutions, that believed as part of their faith, that we should learn about the world G-d created for us.

So no. There is no magic barrier between religion and science, nor should they be in any way separated. In fact, it's impossible to separate them. When you try and learn about the world around you, that world view comes from some aspect of faith.

The claim of there being a division between science and religion, has to do with Genesis. Some people who claim to be scientists, attempt to pick up a rock, and using magic and tarot cards, claim to be able to determine the past.

Now "science" if you look up the word, means:
"is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe"

Notice "testable explanations".

When they pick up a rock, and say this rock is 80 Billion years old, and that disproves Genesis..... ask yourself.... can they test that? Can they empirically, replicate, and test, proof that this rock is 80 Billion years old?

No, they can't. They can look at the contents and makeup of the rock, and determine it's elements. They can assume what elements it should have when the rock was formed. They can assume what break down rate of the rock was, based on the assumption of what the circumstances were that the rock was in.

But they can't go back in time, and prove with conclusive evidence, with reproducibility, how old that rock is.

So.... is that science? No it is not. Not according to the accepted understanding of what science is. It's more like fortune telling.

And THAT.... and religion does have a problem.