Can we compare the PLO , including Hamas and Fatah the same as

[Penelope]

the African National Congress? of which Nelson Mandela and others including some Jews were members of, and of course some Jews were against such as the prosecuting attorney Percy Yutar.

I found it funny as the 6 Jews who were arrested, three escaped, two not charged and one went to a white prison where he got the first half of his law degree and did spend 22 years.

So my question can we compare the two? in my opinion I think so.

 

[Lipush]

Eh?

 

[Daniyel]

Penelope's meltdown..

 

[Lipush]

LOL

 

[Penelope]

So no response to the original post, I take it you agree with me then?

 

[Lipush]

You're provocative on intent, so I doubt we can really agree on anything to begin with

 

[teddyearp]

If your original post had any sort of coherence to sufficiently present clearly whatever thought you were trying to express, them perhaps there would be some thing to say, other than the fact that it is just basically gibberish.

 

[MJB12741]

Penelope's meltdown..

Them poppies must be good this year.

 

[Penelope]

Is Nelson Mandela who thought they would need force to stop the apartheid, is he any different than Hamas or Fatah or the Plo. Remember Mandela went on to be the Pres of S. Africa even though at one time he was tried for being anti the gov. regimen . Tell me how the PLO is any different than the ANC. Since everyone says that Jews are a race, I think what your doing in Israel is racist against the Arab society, and against their religion. You have taken over their country and freedom and imposed your rule over them.

 

[Coyote]

the African National Congress? of which Nelson Mandela and others including some Jews were members of, and of course some Jews were against such as the prosecuting attorney Percy Yutar.

I found it funny as the 6 Jews who were arrested, three escaped, two not charged and one went to a white prison where he got the first half of his law degree and did spend 22 years.

So my question can we compare the two? in my opinion I think so.

Hamas and Fatah are different groups so lumping them together isn't very accurate.

What is comparable is this:
Both ANC and Hamas and Fatah have used violence and terrorism.
Both are fighting for a just cause - freedom and equality for their people.

There are some key differences:
Mandela became a changed man while imprisoned. He left prison renouncing violence and working for reconciliation.
The ANC followed that lead.

Has Hamas? (no)

Fatah has to some degree but they have no Nelson Mandela to lead them.

 

[Penelope]

He was a changed man, of course about 30 years older of hard labor. Without the new Pres. who had him released and worked with him, the apartheid would not of ended with just him out of prison, it took two on the opposite side. I have seen nothing where the Israel gov has been really willing to work with Hamas, or the PLO, they have just announce more apt building, and last month the arrested about 350 more Pals, and even a girl the age of 14 in prison for throwing rocks.

Also you saying that Mandela was wrong for what he and many did, revolted , and well that is like saying they should of just laid down and be treated like second rate citizens. At that rate we'd still have slaves down south in the USA and segregation on buses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk

De Klerk brokered the end of apartheid, South Africa's racial segregation policy, and supported the transformation of South Africa into a multi-racial democracy by entering into the negotiations that resulted in all citizens, including the country's black majority, having equal voting and other rights. He won the Félix Houphouët-Boigny Peace Prize in 1991, the Prince of Asturias Award in 1992 and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 along with Nelson Mandela for his role in the ending of apartheid.

 

[Coyote]

He was a changed man, of course about 30 years older of hard labor. Without the new Pres. who had him released and worked with him, the apartheid would not of ended with just him out of prison, it took two on the opposite side. I have seen nothing where the Israel gov has been really willing to work with Hamas, or the PLO, they have just announce more apt building, and last month the arrested about 350 more Pals, and even a girl the age of 14 in prison for throwing rocks.

Also you saying that Mandela was wrong for what he and many did, revolted , and well that is like saying they should of just laid down and be treated like second rate citizens. At that rate we'd still have slaves down south in the USA and segregation on buses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk

De Klerk brokered the end of apartheid, South Africa's racial segregation policy, and supported the transformation of South Africa into a multi-racial democracy by entering into the negotiations that resulted in all citizens, including the country's black majority, having equal voting and other rights. He won the Félix Houphouët-Boigny Peace Prize in 1991, the Prince of Asturias Award in 1992 and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 along with Nelson Mandela for his role in the ending of apartheid.

No. I'm not saying Mandela was wrong for having revolted.

I'm saying terrorism - against innocent people - was wrong.

Mandella made up for that by his message and the remainder of life pushing for reconciliation OVER further violence. His actions united his country and earned him the respect of both blacks and whites.

In terms of Hamas - what specifically have they done for reconciliation? Have they renounced violence? Have they recognized Israel's right to exist?

Granted Israel is no angel, but you're making comparisons with Mandela/ANC and Hamas and Fatah. What actions has Hamas engaged in other than terrorism, that is comparable to ANC? Who is Hamas' Mandela?

 

[Coyote]

One other thing Penelope, and that is on the issue of civil rights in the US. It took a war to free us from slavery. But it was Martin Luther Kings message of change through non-violence that really made the case for white lawmakers in pre-Civil Rights America. It was the non-violent and very public stances of the Rosa Parks that made headlines and turned public sympathy to a just cause.

 

[Lipush]

If your original post had any sort of coherence to sufficiently present clearly whatever thought you were trying to express, them perhaps there would be some thing to say, other than the fact that it is just basically gibberish.

Yeah, what he said.

 

[montelatici]

He was a changed man, of course about 30 years older of hard labor. Without the new Pres. who had him released and worked with him, the apartheid would not of ended with just him out of prison, it took two on the opposite side. I have seen nothing where the Israel gov has been really willing to work with Hamas, or the PLO, they have just announce more apt building, and last month the arrested about 350 more Pals, and even a girl the age of 14 in prison for throwing rocks.

Also you saying that Mandela was wrong for what he and many did, revolted , and well that is like saying they should of just laid down and be treated like second rate citizens. At that rate we'd still have slaves down south in the USA and segregation on buses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk

De Klerk brokered the end of apartheid, South Africa's racial segregation policy, and supported the transformation of South Africa into a multi-racial democracy by entering into the negotiations that resulted in all citizens, including the country's black majority, having equal voting and other rights. He won the Félix Houphouët-Boigny Peace Prize in 1991, the Prince of Asturias Award in 1992 and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 along with Nelson Mandela for his role in the ending of apartheid.

No. I'm not saying Mandela was wrong for having revolted.

I'm saying terrorism - against innocent people - was wrong.

Mandella made up for that by his message and the remainder of life pushing for reconciliation OVER further violence. His actions united his country and earned him the respect of both blacks and whites.

In terms of Hamas - what specifically have they done for reconciliation? Have they renounced violence? Have they recognized Israel's right to exist?

Granted Israel is no angel, but you're making comparisons with Mandela/ANC and Hamas and Fatah. What actions has Hamas engaged in other than terrorism, that is comparable to ANC? Who is Hamas' Mandela?

Mandela renounced violence only after De Klerk agreed to end Apartheid around 1990. In 1985 Mandela was offered a presidential pardon if he renounced violence and he refused to renounce violence. The Palestinian "Mandela" is probably in prison, as Mandela was.

 

[montelatici]

From the NYT printed in 1990:

It is interesting to note that the ANC was also at war with another non-white liberation group, much like Mamas versus Fatah.

"Why Won't Mandela Renounce Violence?

Why Won t Mandela Renounce Violence - NYTimes.com

 

[Penelope]

He was a changed man, of course about 30 years older of hard labor. Without the new Pres. who had him released and worked with him, the apartheid would not of ended with just him out of prison, it took two on the opposite side. I have seen nothing where the Israel gov has been really willing to work with Hamas, or the PLO, they have just announce more apt building, and last month the arrested about 350 more Pals, and even a girl the age of 14 in prison for throwing rocks.

Also you saying that Mandela was wrong for what he and many did, revolted , and well that is like saying they should of just laid down and be treated like second rate citizens. At that rate we'd still have slaves down south in the USA and segregation on buses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk

De Klerk brokered the end of apartheid, South Africa's racial segregation policy, and supported the transformation of South Africa into a multi-racial democracy by entering into the negotiations that resulted in all citizens, including the country's black majority, having equal voting and other rights. He won the Félix Houphouët-Boigny Peace Prize in 1991, the Prince of Asturias Award in 1992 and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 along with Nelson Mandela for his role in the ending of apartheid.

No. I'm not saying Mandela was wrong for having revolted.

I'm saying terrorism - against innocent people - was wrong.

Mandella made up for that by his message and the remainder of life pushing for reconciliation OVER further violence. His actions united his country and earned him the respect of both blacks and whites.

In terms of Hamas - what specifically have they done for reconciliation? Have they renounced violence? Have they recognized Israel's right to exist?

Granted Israel is no angel, but you're making comparisons with Mandela/ANC and Hamas and Fatah. What actions has Hamas engaged in other than terrorism, that is comparable to ANC? Who is Hamas' Mandela?

Who is Israel's Mandela? Terrorism against innocent people is still wrong.

 

[Phoenall]

the African National Congress? of which Nelson Mandela and others including some Jews were members of, and of course some Jews were against such as the prosecuting attorney Percy Yutar.

I found it funny as the 6 Jews who were arrested, three escaped, two not charged and one went to a white prison where he got the first half of his law degree and did spend 22 years.

So my question can we compare the two? in my opinion I think so.

Yes as they are all terrorist organisations, with the ANC being amongst the worst for mass murdering their own people. The UN should get its head round terrorism and proclaim open season on all terrorist groups as stated in a Resolution made by the full UN member states. So if one state says another is terrorist then the others must side with them or the state does not go on the list. No Veto's allowed and a 75% majority needed of all member states. Then the list sent to the ICC for placing in International law.

 

[montelatici]

Israel would go on the terrorist list under your rules, Phoney. LOL

 

[Phoenall]

the African National Congress? of which Nelson Mandela and others including some Jews were members of, and of course some Jews were against such as the prosecuting attorney Percy Yutar.

I found it funny as the 6 Jews who were arrested, three escaped, two not charged and one went to a white prison where he got the first half of his law degree and did spend 22 years.

So my question can we compare the two? in my opinion I think so.

Yes as they are all terrorist organisations, with the ANC being amongst the worst for mass murdering their own people. The UN should get its head round terrorism and proclaim open season on all terrorist groups as stated in a Resolution made by the full UN member states. So if one state says another is terrorist then the others must side with them or the state does not go on the list. No Veto's allowed and a 75% majority needed of all member states. Then the list sent to the ICC for placing in International law.