Can we agree that the North started the war?

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Lol. Your points...

Dude, I like to debate. You say my points are shit.. that's fine. Say HOW.. this isn't hard.

 

[Sunsettommy]

History

How Slavery Became the Economic Engine of the South

With cash crops of tobacco, cotton and sugar cane, America’s southern states became the economic engine of the burgeoning nation. Their fuel of choice? Human slavery.

If the Confederacy had been a separate nation, it would have ranked as the fourth richest in the world at the start of the Civil War. The slave economy had been very good to American prosperity. By the start of the war, the South was producing 75 percent of the world’s cotton and creating more millionaires per capita in the Mississippi River valley than anywhere in the nation. Enslaved workers represented Southern planters’ most significant investment—and the bulk of their wealth.

LINK

=====

There was no such economy in the Northern states in 1861 which was vastly different as there is a dividing line between slave states and Free states in how they managed their economy.

National Park Service

Industry and Economy during the Civil War​

By Benjamin T. Arrington, National Park Service

Excerpt:

In 1860, the South was still predominantly agricultural, highly dependent upon the sale of staples to a world market. By 1815, cotton was the most valuable export in the United States; by 1840, it was worth more than all other exports combined. But while the southern states produced two-thirds of the world's supply of cotton, the South had little manufacturing capability, about 29 percent of the railroad tracks, and only 13 percent of the nation's banks. The South did experiment with using slave labor in manufacturing, but for the most part it was well satisfied with its agricultural economy.

The North, by contrast, was well on its way toward a commercial and manufacturing economy, which would have a direct impact on its war making ability. By 1860, 90 percent of the nation's manufacturing output came from northern states. The North produced 17 times more cotton and woolen textiles than the South, 30 times more leather goods, 20 times more pig iron, and 32 times more firearms. The North produced 3,200 firearms to every 100 produced in the South. Only about 40 percent of the Northern population was still engaged in agriculture by 1860, as compared to 84 percent of the South.

LINK

 

[candycorn]

Those who believe the north started the war also believe Japan had no choice but to attack Pearl Harbor and that the Russians are justified in invading Ukraine.

Even the nuts at the Prager institute can see it.

 

[cnm]

Dude, I like to debate. You say my points are shit.. that's fine. Say HOW.. this isn't hard.

But you can shit faster than I can shovel it. Even in rainbow...


That's the whole point of your Gish Gallop.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

But you can shit faster than I can shovel it. Even in rainbow...


That's the whole point of your Gish Gallop.

Please, just address one point.. just to say you're intellectually capable.

Anyone can just hop onto any thread, reply to the OP, and say "OMG, YOU'RE SO DUMB I CAN'T EVEN REPLY, YOU'RE JUST SO DUMB, OMG!!!".... it's so intellectual. I understand if someone starts a thread that's like "HEY BIDEN IS DUMB STUPID F*CK PROVE ME WRONG"... but I didn't start a moronic thread like that. I made specific points, and you didn't address any of them, you just went full puffy-chest, ego- simple-minded bafoon on me. Listen, we're all anonymous here. The cheerleaders won't find out if you get a wedgie. This is just a debate. Calm down, compose yourself, calm your tits, and use your freakin brain to discuss a topic.

 

[cnm]

Please, just address one point

Purple is your best point.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Those who believe the north started the war also believe Japan had no choice but to attack Pearl Harbor and that the Russians are justified in invading Ukraine.

Even the nuts at the Prager institute can see it.

A. Prager U is full of far more intellectual people than any mainstream media institutino, you, or I.

B. While I actually truthfully considered voting for Dennis Prager for president in a write-in one year, I whole-heartedly disagree with him on this issue, and I'd be glad to debate him on it. And guess what? I wouldn't have to hate him or show up to his thread and fill it with nothing but "you're just stupid" posts to do it! Who would have thought!

The problem is, what the framing of the question. Did the south single-handedly start the war? No. Did the North single-handedly start the war? No. The two were splitting, one provided cotton, the other benefitted off of cotton, both owned slaves, and when it was time for a PR campaign, a well-funded corporate Abe Lincoln came in and cut the south loose, and demonized them to the public despite the fact that they all profited off of the evil they were being directed to oppose. Lincoln had no morality as far as slavery, it was only about keeping the country together, any honest historian will tell you that. Once it was politically necessary to denounce slavery, that's when all the iconic Lincoln lines were said and written in stone, but there's no reason to be so obtuse to believe it considering so much other history and quotes of Lincoln out there at different times of his life, his slave ownership, etc.

Like, use your brain. I'm not saying the Confederacy was super awesome and with no flaws.. I'm saying the idea that the North was super awesome with no flaws is flawed, and when I suggest that the Confederacy isn't 100% evil, people like you freak out and have conniptions. It's very unhealthy. It's like if you were a German boy listening the Nazis telling you the history of the Jews. Nobody sais the Jews were perfect, but it's not as if the Nazis were righteous, courageous, etc. Most wars in history have tension leading up to it.

 

[fncceo]

If your next door neighbor, who you disowned after a squabble

How do you disown a neighbor?

 

[candycorn]

A. Prager U is full of far more intellectual people than any mainstream media institutino, you, or I.

LOL...thanks for the chuckle.

B. While I actually truthfully considered voting for Dennis Prager for president in a write-in one year, I whole-heartedly disagree with him on this issue, and I'd be glad to debate him on it. And guess what? I wouldn't have to hate him or show up to his thread and fill it with nothing but "you're just stupid" posts to do it! Who would have thought!

Eventually every one of your conversations goes that way so...yes you would.

The problem is, what the framing of the question. Did the south single-handedly start the war? No. Did the North single-handedly start the war? No. The two were splitting, one provided cotton, the other benefitted off of cotton, both owned slaves, and when it was time for a PR campaign, a well-funded corporate Abe Lincoln came in and cut the south loose, and demonized them to the public despite the fact that they all profited off of the evil they were being directed to oppose. Lincoln had no morality as far as slavery, it was only about keeping the country together, any honest historian will tell you that. Once it was politically necessary to denounce slavery, that's when all the iconic Lincoln lines were said and written in stone, but there's no reason to be so obtuse to believe it considering so much other history and quotes of Lincoln out there at different times of his life, his slave ownership, etc.

Like, use your brain. I'm not saying the Confederacy was super awesome and with no flaws.. I'm saying the idea that the North was super awesome with no flaws is flawed, and when I suggest that the Confederacy isn't 100% evil, people like you freak out and have conniptions. It's very unhealthy. It's like if you were a German boy listening the Nazis telling you the history of the Jews. Nobody sais the Jews were perfect, but it's not as if the Nazis were righteous, courageous, etc. Most wars in history have tension leading up to it.

The rebs shot first...hence they started it.

And got their ass kicked.

Those are the facts, now back to the spin.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Purple is your best point.

Blocked, see ya. I gave you one last shot, there's no hope. You replied to not one single point, you just got angry and lashed out from your pathetic ego. Do better please, and for God's sake, don't bother replying, you're on ignore.

However, before you attempt to save face, realize, I have plenty of folks who I don't ignore who disagree with me, but they at least discuss issues. You've just acted like an idiot. And guess what, you're just like the idiots who are the nuts on the right, who I see and block on here was well. Those people who are on the right? who say dumb, crazy, immature, angry sh*t on the daily with no points given? the ones that you think you're above? Well, that's you. You're acting as the trash here and now, just like them. Yikes.

Do better, get happier, accept more people, stop being such a bigot, and enjoy life more please. Not everyone is your enemy, most mainstream republicans are nice people, as are most mainstream democrats. You hate me so I'm sure your emotions of rejection and anger will only grow while reading this. You'll tell yourself you're entertained by this out of spite and ego, and try to laugh to yourself to try to put yourself above it, you can feel the smile starting to bend.. trust me, it's not superiority, it's inferiority, as in a complex. And, as we all can see, you spent a LOT of time responding to me, and deep down you know that you probably desire deeper convo than what you put forth here. You're probably better than what you were here. You can do better brother. Pick youre game up, for the next person, and for your own dignity for Christ's sake!

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Eventually every one of your conversations goes that way so...yes you would.

Dude you don't even know who I am, we haven't even debated.. WTF are you talking about? LOL

The rebs shot first...hence they started it.

Lincoln fortified a foreign area, the foreigners retaliated.

And got their ass kicked.

You're so sensitive and easily-triggered, it's cute. You actually think saying something like that furthers your point.. it's adorable.

Are you a freshman in high school by chance?

 

[candycorn]

You're so sensitive and easily-triggered, it's cute. You actually think saying something like that furthers your point.. it's adorable.

I agree, it was adorable seeing the South destroyed after they started the war. The really cool thing was that the North didn't use 1/2 of it's soldiers to roll the South up.

 

[cnm]

try to laugh to yourself

Done.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

I agree, it was adorable seeing the South destroyed after they started the war. The really cool thing was that the North didn't use 1/2 of it's soldiers to roll the South up.

Dude, do you want to know the coolest thing about the Civil War??

You weren't in it.

So, you can stop fan-boying about it like a dork. It was a complex historical, tragic, struggle. And here you are with a fan-boy flag giggling about it. Go giggle at valley forge, ya dork. Or, grow a set of balls and grow up a bit when you talk about history.

 

[candycorn]

Dude, do you want to know the coolest thing about the Civil War??

You weren't in it.

Wanna know another cool thing about the Civil War? The south lost. Bigly. The same rhetoric we hear here from Trump supporters was largely the same principles the backwards South was talking about before the Civil War. History repeats itself. And it will again.

So, you can stop fan-boying about it like a dork. It was a complex historical, tragic, struggle. And here you are with a fan-boy flag giggling about it. Go giggle at valley forge, ya dork. Or, grow a set of balls and grow up a bit when you talk about history.

Pfft...I've likely forgotten more about history than you'll ever know.

As for you... your discussion about Bill Russell being the greatest player of all time went the same way. When nobody cosigned your ridiculous statement, you got all whiny like a little bitch.
This is what you (and all blob supporters for that matter) do.

The South wanted to expand Slavery to Mexico and Central America. Let me guess...you'll deny that too or justify it. Or both.

Knights of the Golden Circle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Knights of the Golden Circle

David Keehn talked about the secret society known as the Knights of the Golden Circle that sought to establish a slave empire spanning the southern United States, Mexico, Cuba, and the West Indies. Created in 1854 by George Bickley, a Virginia-born doctor, the organization later shifted its...

www.c-span.org

 

[Colin norris]

How about you just address a single point.. one of the 7.. i made with a counterargument that you might have and go from there. This isn't difficult.

Not interested.
You continue to babble on old darling. Knock yourself out.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[frigidweirdo]

By all means, point out your claim. I'm noticing that many on here like to make claims and then not back them up at all.

Who did I insult besides what I said. And do you think that it's bad to insult people who think Lincoln is the "epitome of evil"????

Answer the question, either own your hatred of America or scower off.

So you do want to talk about you insulting.

Right then, proof and then we can scrap this whole piece of shit thread.

"but, enough of discrediting moronic leftists"

You literally insulted a whole swathe of people.

Right, fuck off.

 

[eagle1462010]

The Civil War: Did The North Use Child Slave Labor?

www.americancowboychronicles.com

Northern ideals before during and after the War...........Ghettoes came about after the world............blacks working like the slave labor children back then........

Neither side were ANGELS............EVER...............

But we look at it without the perception of what was normal at the time..............


Today..............Slavery exists..........They buy and sell humans from the Far East........to use as they please and NOTHING IS SAID.
iMAGINE THAT...........Not to mention the child trafficking from our southern border.

 

[BULLDOG]

Listen, I know many like to troll in today's society/politics and completely demonize the south as nothing but a bunch of immoral slave holders while siding with a supposed moral and superior north.

Meanwhile, modern leftists often make this difference while asserting that the northerners like Lincoln, who owned slaves, are the epitome of evil in all of mankind... but, enough of discrediting moronic leftists (which isn't to be confused with a classic American liberal, who is viewed as extremely Conservative by today's standards)....

But, let's get to history...

A few things that are ignored or evaded by commonists who just except baseline, vague, textbook American history on the Civil war include...
1. Both northerners and southerners owned slaves at the time of the war, and most southerners didn't own slaves.
2. Both north and south prominent leaders questioned the morality of slavery
3. Slavery as far as the value of a human wasnt the central issue of the war, economics and federal vs. states rights was.
4. The North wanted to bully many non-slavery-related issues onto the south and created a northern/southern block politically
5. Lincoln owned slaves, acted against Congress criminally, and even attacked his own populace in Maryland.
6. Lincoln sent armed forces to stockade a Confederate (aka foreign) owned base.
7. It was not "illegal" to succeed from the union until states actually succeeded from the union, so those who succeeded broke no rules.

What specific non slavery related issues caused the civil war?