I don't believe it was a random event at all. I believe it was intentional. Why? Because that is what the analysis of the evidence shows. We live in a deterministic universe which follows rules where every cause has an effect which means that everything has happened for a reason.
All you have to do is examine what you did yesterday?
OK, you can take his place.I'll take you on if he doesn't.
Can I use something you created as evidence even if I don't know who created it?
That's not good for me to hear.
But regardless of what we know it is, it does exist and can be examined as evidence to learn things about it and its origin.OK, you can take his place.I'll take you on if he doesn't.
Can I use something you created as evidence even if I don't know who created it?
Not at all. It just happens you're on my ignore list and therefore it doesn't come up on my alerts. I've just unignored you, so I'll get alerts from you.
You can use whatever evidence you like.
I can determine whether your evidence is valid in my opinion or not.
Here's my argument.
First, we don't know what the universe is. It could be anything. It could be a computer simulation, it could be the equivalent of an atom for other beings, it could be what we think it is. There are billions of possibilities.
Imagine an atom, and imagine that within that atom there are small parts that are spinning around and around with a great for of energy, and so small we'd never be able to see or comprehend, there are little creatures, like us.
When they look out from their planet, they see their own little universe, which to them is huge, made up of billions of stars and with so much energy.
Imagine on one of those little planets someone asks the question "Can the universe be used as evidence for a creator?"
From our perspective we'd probably say no, from their perspective, where EVERYTHING beyond that small atom is unknown to them, they might say yes.
Second is this.
People point to a creator because they say that nothing can appear out of nothing. So where did the creator come from?
If a creator can come from nothing, then the universe can come from nothing. If the universe can come from nothing then you can't argue that the universe is evidence of a creator.
So.... the only way you can realistically argue that the universe is made by a creator is if there isn't a creator, in which case your argument is wrong. Either way it's wrong.
OK, you can take his place.I'll take you on if he doesn't.
Can I use something you created as evidence even if I don't know who created it?
The Universe is Saddleback making it closed and not open.
Is the Universe closed or open, the Universe is Saddleback making it closed. If I walk on a neutron star and drop a feather it hits the surface from one meter altitude and the feather hits the star at four million miles per hour but which does not bother the neutron star even with an explosion bigger than Little Boy. I can't walk on the surface of a neutron star and only a thought experiment.
Not at all. It just happens you're on my ignore list and therefore it doesn't come up on my alerts. I've just unignored you, so I'll get alerts from you.
You can use whatever evidence you like.
I can determine whether your evidence is valid in my opinion or not.
Here's my argument.
First, we don't know what the universe is. It could be anything. It could be a computer simulation, it could be the equivalent of an atom for other beings, it could be what we think it is. There are billions of possibilities.
Imagine an atom, and imagine that within that atom there are small parts that are spinning around and around with a great for of energy, and so small we'd never be able to see or comprehend, there are little creatures, like us.
When they look out from their planet, they see their own little universe, which to them is huge, made up of billions of stars and with so much energy.
Imagine on one of those little planets someone asks the question "Can the universe be used as evidence for a creator?"
From our perspective we'd probably say no, from their perspective, where EVERYTHING beyond that small atom is unknown to them, they might say yes.
Second is this.
People point to a creator because they say that nothing can appear out of nothing. So where did the creator come from?
If a creator can come from nothing, then the universe can come from nothing. If the universe can come from nothing then you can't argue that the universe is evidence of a creator.
So.... the only way you can realistically argue that the universe is made by a creator is if there isn't a creator, in which case your argument is wrong. Either way it's wrong.
OK, you can take his place.I'll take you on if he doesn't.
Can I use something you created as evidence even if I don't know who created it?
The Universe is Saddleback making it closed and not open.
Is the Universe closed or open, the Universe is Saddleback making it closed. If I walk on a neutron star and drop a feather it hits the surface from one meter altitude and the feather hits the star at four million miles per hour but which does not bother the neutron star even with an explosion bigger than Little Boy. I can't walk on the surface of a neutron star and only a thought experiment.
Not at all. It just happens you're on my ignore list and therefore it doesn't come up on my alerts. I've just unignored you, so I'll get alerts from you.
You can use whatever evidence you like.
I can determine whether your evidence is valid in my opinion or not.
Here's my argument.
First, we don't know what the universe is. It could be anything. It could be a computer simulation, it could be the equivalent of an atom for other beings, it could be what we think it is. There are billions of possibilities.
Imagine an atom, and imagine that within that atom there are small parts that are spinning around and around with a great for of energy, and so small we'd never be able to see or comprehend, there are little creatures, like us.
When they look out from their planet, they see their own little universe, which to them is huge, made up of billions of stars and with so much energy.
Imagine on one of those little planets someone asks the question "Can the universe be used as evidence for a creator?"
From our perspective we'd probably say no, from their perspective, where EVERYTHING beyond that small atom is unknown to them, they might say yes.
Second is this.
People point to a creator because they say that nothing can appear out of nothing. So where did the creator come from?
If a creator can come from nothing, then the universe can come from nothing. If the universe can come from nothing then you can't argue that the universe is evidence of a creator.
So.... the only way you can realistically argue that the universe is made by a creator is if there isn't a creator, in which case your argument is wrong. Either way it's wrong.
But regardless of what we know it is, it does exist and can be examined as evidence to learn things about it and its origin.OK, you can take his place.I'll take you on if he doesn't.
Can I use something you created as evidence even if I don't know who created it?
Not at all. It just happens you're on my ignore list and therefore it doesn't come up on my alerts. I've just unignored you, so I'll get alerts from you.
You can use whatever evidence you like.
I can determine whether your evidence is valid in my opinion or not.
Here's my argument.
First, we don't know what the universe is. It could be anything. It could be a computer simulation, it could be the equivalent of an atom for other beings, it could be what we think it is. There are billions of possibilities.
Imagine an atom, and imagine that within that atom there are small parts that are spinning around and around with a great for of energy, and so small we'd never be able to see or comprehend, there are little creatures, like us.
When they look out from their planet, they see their own little universe, which to them is huge, made up of billions of stars and with so much energy.
Imagine on one of those little planets someone asks the question "Can the universe be used as evidence for a creator?"
From our perspective we'd probably say no, from their perspective, where EVERYTHING beyond that small atom is unknown to them, they might say yes.
Second is this.
People point to a creator because they say that nothing can appear out of nothing. So where did the creator come from?
If a creator can come from nothing, then the universe can come from nothing. If the universe can come from nothing then you can't argue that the universe is evidence of a creator.
So.... the only way you can realistically argue that the universe is made by a creator is if there isn't a creator, in which case your argument is wrong. Either way it's wrong.
But regardless of what we know it is, it does exist and can be examined as evidence to learn things about it and its origin.OK, you can take his place.I'll take you on if he doesn't.
Can I use something you created as evidence even if I don't know who created it?
Not at all. It just happens you're on my ignore list and therefore it doesn't come up on my alerts. I've just unignored you, so I'll get alerts from you.
You can use whatever evidence you like.
I can determine whether your evidence is valid in my opinion or not.
Here's my argument.
First, we don't know what the universe is. It could be anything. It could be a computer simulation, it could be the equivalent of an atom for other beings, it could be what we think it is. There are billions of possibilities.
Imagine an atom, and imagine that within that atom there are small parts that are spinning around and around with a great for of energy, and so small we'd never be able to see or comprehend, there are little creatures, like us.
When they look out from their planet, they see their own little universe, which to them is huge, made up of billions of stars and with so much energy.
Imagine on one of those little planets someone asks the question "Can the universe be used as evidence for a creator?"
From our perspective we'd probably say no, from their perspective, where EVERYTHING beyond that small atom is unknown to them, they might say yes.
Second is this.
People point to a creator because they say that nothing can appear out of nothing. So where did the creator come from?
If a creator can come from nothing, then the universe can come from nothing. If the universe can come from nothing then you can't argue that the universe is evidence of a creator.
So.... the only way you can realistically argue that the universe is made by a creator is if there isn't a creator, in which case your argument is wrong. Either way it's wrong.
It might exist, in some kind of form, potentially not a physical form, we could just be 1s and 0s.
But then you've not actually discussed either point I made.
No...but we make mistakes during the construction of those roads. Those mistakes lead to results which are unintended. Take the pedestrian bridge collapse in Florida for example...cracks formed in the foundation, which led to the collapse of the structure. Those were intentional? Of course they were not. What did we get as a result? A pile of rubble instead of a footbridge, with people under it. There was a creator and the results of that creation were unintentional.
My response would be that I am only trying to establish that things that are created can be used as evidence. This applies to things that are created intentionally or unintentionally and to perfect creations and imperfect creations. You are trying to skip this step and go straight to the third step which is discussing what this evidence tells us. That's not how a logical systematic process works.
Of what? Your OP says this:
To which I have clearly stated "No" and responded providing examples and my line of reasoning.
The OP asks the question CAN the universe be used as evidence for a Creator, not IS the universe evidence of a Creator.
