Bull Ring Can the universe be used as evidence for a creator. ding vs Soupnazi630

[Moonglow]

You can't use human physics to explain an entity which defies human knowledge of physics...

 

[ding]

I appreciate your sharing of knowledge but I am not a physicist. I cannot debate you on point in theoretical physics.

I am not either but I have a curious mind and an engineering background. Check out the video's I provided and do your own exploration.

I have looked at them and I appreciate theory as much as the next guy.
Physics is one of those subjects which is so cutting edge and so full of theories that it is very easy for the layman to become lost. These are folks way above my IQ. Waaaay above.
Interesting none the less...what I can process.

27. The laws of nature predestined that beings that know and create (i.e. intelligence) would eventually arise.

28. Intelligence is the most complex phenomenon created from the evolution of space and time (i.e. the evolution of matter and energy).

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

You can't use human physics to explain an entity which defies human knowledge of physics...

I have been trying to tell him I can't follow this shit...and no one can prove any of it.
I have been at it so long that I am just seeing the conclusion.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

So let's examine the evidence.

1. We live in a deterministic universe governed by rules.

Right or wrong?

Wrong...scientifically we dont even know what kind of universe we live in. We have laws but even scientific laws can be disproved as they have in the past.
I like to think we live in a physical, causal universe but then science tells us that even this is not so. We however certainly DO NOT live in a deterministic universe.

You know what...for sake of brevity and simplicity...I will agree. We live in a physical world of cause and effect...sure. Those things that I can observe in my world are the result of cause and effect. Yes.

12. It is possible for matter to have a beginning.

13. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter.

14. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero.

15. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter.

16. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe.

17. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability.

18. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing.

19. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description (Inflation Theory) which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool.

20. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

yeap...sure why not.

 

[ding]

You can't use human physics to explain an entity which defies human knowledge of physics...

I have been trying to tell him I can't follow this shit...and no one can prove any of it.
I have been at it so long that I am just seeing the conclusion.

It's not that complicated.

What is it that you can't follow or don't understand?

 

[ding]

Intelligence is written into the laws of nature. SETI searches for intelligence because they expect to find intelligence. They expect to find intelligence because SETI believes the laws of nature are such that intelligence will eventually arise.

 

[ding]

The evolution of consciousness is no accident. It is written into the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time itself.

 

[Taz]

The evolution of consciousness is no accident. It is written into the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time itself.

You still trying to find ANYONE to agree with you?

 

[ding]

The evolution of consciousness is no accident. It is written into the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time itself.

You still trying to find ANYONE to agree with you?

Mudda? Is that you? I'm surprised the mods haven't permabanned you yet.

 

[Taz]

The evolution of consciousness is no accident. It is written into the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time itself.

You still trying to find ANYONE to agree with you?

Mudda? Is that you? I'm surprised the mods haven't permabanned you yet.

You must be bugging them a lot about it because they asked me about that and their "investigation" found nothing. So YOU STILL CAN'T GET ANYONE TO AGREE WITH YOU ON ANYTHING!!!!!

 

[miketx]

"Evidence"?

As in our own puny concept and interpretation of it?

It's like trying to prove "universal warming".

 

[ding]

The evolution of consciousness is no accident. It is written into the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time itself.

You still trying to find ANYONE to agree with you?

Mudda? Is that you? I'm surprised the mods haven't permabanned you yet.

You must be bugging them a lot about it because they asked me about that and their "investigation" found nothing. So YOU STILL CAN'T GET ANYONE TO AGREE WITH YOU ON ANYTHING!!!!!

No. Would you like me to do that?