Can Terrorism ever be justified? What consitutes terrorism?

[P F Tinmore]

I thought it would be interesting to start a topic on this when I read this post in another thread:

DGS49, et al,

Like the Secretary-General says, "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." Not even this disparity in equipment and technological superior arms. THAT IS AN INVALID EXCUSE. But it is one that the Hostile Arab-Palestinian uses quite frequently.

First - what IS terrorism? There are so many definitions but they have some commonality best expressed in the UN declaration below:


UN General Assembly Resolutions

A 1996 non-binding United Nations Declaration to Supplement the 1994 Declaration on Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism, annexed to the UN General Assembly Resolution 51/210, described terrorist activities in the following terms:[43]


"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"


Antonio Cassese has argued that the language of this and other similar UN declarations "sets out an acceptable definition of terrorism."[44]​

In the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there are many clear cut examples of terrorism and many less clear or easily "justified" examples...

The cold-blooded murder of an entire Israeli family in Itmar down to the smallest infant, while they slept in their beds: Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping

The cold blooded fire bombing of a Palestinian family's home while they slept that left a toddler dead, the two parents so severely wounded they died soon after, and a 6 yr old still fighting for his life: Duma arson attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A host of knife attacks against Israeli civilians, of which this is just one: Palestinian girls shot after stabbing elderly man with scissors

Israeli's stone a school bus full of Palestinian girls: Settlers pelt Palestinian school buses

The collective punishment of innocent civilians:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...e-punishment-is-revenge-plain-and-simple.html

A Palestinian woman attacks a guard at a check point: Terror of checkpoint knife attack: Palestinian woman pulls out knife & stabs Israeli guard

The abduction and burning alive of a palestinian teen: Kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Price Tag movement that has been responsible for vandalism, destruction of property and livelyhood, and assaults on civilians: Price tag policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with the statement: "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." and define terrorism as acts of violence, or intimidation against civilians for the purpose of a political, ideological, religious or cultural goal.

The only example that I would not consider terrorism is attacking a military target.

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

Sad but too true.

 

[ChrisL]

I thought it would be interesting to start a topic on this when I read this post in another thread:

DGS49, et al,

Like the Secretary-General says, "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." Not even this disparity in equipment and technological superior arms. THAT IS AN INVALID EXCUSE. But it is one that the Hostile Arab-Palestinian uses quite frequently.

First - what IS terrorism? There are so many definitions but they have some commonality best expressed in the UN declaration below:


UN General Assembly Resolutions

A 1996 non-binding United Nations Declaration to Supplement the 1994 Declaration on Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism, annexed to the UN General Assembly Resolution 51/210, described terrorist activities in the following terms:[43]


"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"


Antonio Cassese has argued that the language of this and other similar UN declarations "sets out an acceptable definition of terrorism."[44]​

In the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there are many clear cut examples of terrorism and many less clear or easily "justified" examples...

The cold-blooded murder of an entire Israeli family in Itmar down to the smallest infant, while they slept in their beds: Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping

The cold blooded fire bombing of a Palestinian family's home while they slept that left a toddler dead, the two parents so severely wounded they died soon after, and a 6 yr old still fighting for his life: Duma arson attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A host of knife attacks against Israeli civilians, of which this is just one: Palestinian girls shot after stabbing elderly man with scissors

Israeli's stone a school bus full of Palestinian girls: Settlers pelt Palestinian school buses

The collective punishment of innocent civilians:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...e-punishment-is-revenge-plain-and-simple.html

A Palestinian woman attacks a guard at a check point: Terror of checkpoint knife attack: Palestinian woman pulls out knife & stabs Israeli guard

The abduction and burning alive of a palestinian teen: Kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Price Tag movement that has been responsible for vandalism, destruction of property and livelyhood, and assaults on civilians: Price tag policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with the statement: "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." and define terrorism as acts of violence, or intimidation against civilians for the purpose of a political, ideological, religious or cultural goal.

The only example that I would not consider terrorism is attacking a military target.

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But now there are "rules" of war. If you don't abide by the rules, you are going to be considered a terrorist.

These Islamic extremists are not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. They fight for the opposite of freedom in most instances, Sharia Law. They move to other countries and fight for the right to live by these laws in other nations where some of the things might be illegal.

 

[Samson]

I thought it would be interesting to start a topic on this when I read this post in another thread:

DGS49, et al,

Like the Secretary-General says, "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." Not even this disparity in equipment and technological superior arms. THAT IS AN INVALID EXCUSE. But it is one that the Hostile Arab-Palestinian uses quite frequently.

First - what IS terrorism? There are so many definitions but they have some commonality best expressed in the UN declaration below:


UN General Assembly Resolutions

A 1996 non-binding United Nations Declaration to Supplement the 1994 Declaration on Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism, annexed to the UN General Assembly Resolution 51/210, described terrorist activities in the following terms:[43]


"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"


Antonio Cassese has argued that the language of this and other similar UN declarations "sets out an acceptable definition of terrorism."[44]​

In the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there are many clear cut examples of terrorism and many less clear or easily "justified" examples...

The cold-blooded murder of an entire Israeli family in Itmar down to the smallest infant, while they slept in their beds: Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping

The cold blooded fire bombing of a Palestinian family's home while they slept that left a toddler dead, the two parents so severely wounded they died soon after, and a 6 yr old still fighting for his life: Duma arson attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A host of knife attacks against Israeli civilians, of which this is just one: Palestinian girls shot after stabbing elderly man with scissors

Israeli's stone a school bus full of Palestinian girls: Settlers pelt Palestinian school buses

The collective punishment of innocent civilians:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...e-punishment-is-revenge-plain-and-simple.html

A Palestinian woman attacks a guard at a check point: Terror of checkpoint knife attack: Palestinian woman pulls out knife & stabs Israeli guard

The abduction and burning alive of a palestinian teen: Kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Price Tag movement that has been responsible for vandalism, destruction of property and livelyhood, and assaults on civilians: Price tag policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with the statement: "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." and define terrorism as acts of violence, or intimidation against civilians for the purpose of a political, ideological, religious or cultural goal.

The only example that I would not consider terrorism is attacking a military target.

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But now there are "rules" of war. If you don't abide by the rules, you are going to be considered a terrorist.

These Islamic extremists are not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. They fight for the opposite of freedom in most instances, Sharia Law. They move to other countries and fight for the right to live by these laws in other nations where some of the things might be illegal.

Rules of War is an oxymoron.

 

[ChrisL]

I thought it would be interesting to start a topic on this when I read this post in another thread:

DGS49, et al,

Like the Secretary-General says, "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." Not even this disparity in equipment and technological superior arms. THAT IS AN INVALID EXCUSE. But it is one that the Hostile Arab-Palestinian uses quite frequently.

First - what IS terrorism? There are so many definitions but they have some commonality best expressed in the UN declaration below:


UN General Assembly Resolutions

A 1996 non-binding United Nations Declaration to Supplement the 1994 Declaration on Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism, annexed to the UN General Assembly Resolution 51/210, described terrorist activities in the following terms:[43]


"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"


Antonio Cassese has argued that the language of this and other similar UN declarations "sets out an acceptable definition of terrorism."[44]​

In the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there are many clear cut examples of terrorism and many less clear or easily "justified" examples...

The cold-blooded murder of an entire Israeli family in Itmar down to the smallest infant, while they slept in their beds: Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping

The cold blooded fire bombing of a Palestinian family's home while they slept that left a toddler dead, the two parents so severely wounded they died soon after, and a 6 yr old still fighting for his life: Duma arson attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A host of knife attacks against Israeli civilians, of which this is just one: Palestinian girls shot after stabbing elderly man with scissors

Israeli's stone a school bus full of Palestinian girls: Settlers pelt Palestinian school buses

The collective punishment of innocent civilians:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...e-punishment-is-revenge-plain-and-simple.html

A Palestinian woman attacks a guard at a check point: Terror of checkpoint knife attack: Palestinian woman pulls out knife & stabs Israeli guard

The abduction and burning alive of a palestinian teen: Kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Price Tag movement that has been responsible for vandalism, destruction of property and livelyhood, and assaults on civilians: Price tag policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with the statement: "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." and define terrorism as acts of violence, or intimidation against civilians for the purpose of a political, ideological, religious or cultural goal.

The only example that I would not consider terrorism is attacking a military target.

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But now there are "rules" of war. If you don't abide by the rules, you are going to be considered a terrorist.

These Islamic extremists are not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. They fight for the opposite of freedom in most instances, Sharia Law. They move to other countries and fight for the right to live by these laws in other nations where some of the things might be illegal.

Rules of War is an oxymoron.

Maybe so, but according the Geneva Convention, they exist.

 

[ChrisL]

If a country conducted war the way Islamic terrorists do, that country would have some explaining to do. That kind of thing is just unacceptable. Cutting off the heads of prisoners, burning them alive, raping them, forcing them into marriage, etc., etc., the atrocities go on and on.

 

[Samson]

I thought it would be interesting to start a topic on this when I read this post in another thread:

DGS49, et al,

Like the Secretary-General says, "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." Not even this disparity in equipment and technological superior arms. THAT IS AN INVALID EXCUSE. But it is one that the Hostile Arab-Palestinian uses quite frequently.

First - what IS terrorism? There are so many definitions but they have some commonality best expressed in the UN declaration below:


UN General Assembly Resolutions

A 1996 non-binding United Nations Declaration to Supplement the 1994 Declaration on Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism, annexed to the UN General Assembly Resolution 51/210, described terrorist activities in the following terms:[43]


"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"


Antonio Cassese has argued that the language of this and other similar UN declarations "sets out an acceptable definition of terrorism."[44]​

In the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there are many clear cut examples of terrorism and many less clear or easily "justified" examples...

The cold-blooded murder of an entire Israeli family in Itmar down to the smallest infant, while they slept in their beds: Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping

The cold blooded fire bombing of a Palestinian family's home while they slept that left a toddler dead, the two parents so severely wounded they died soon after, and a 6 yr old still fighting for his life: Duma arson attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A host of knife attacks against Israeli civilians, of which this is just one: Palestinian girls shot after stabbing elderly man with scissors

Israeli's stone a school bus full of Palestinian girls: Settlers pelt Palestinian school buses

The collective punishment of innocent civilians:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...e-punishment-is-revenge-plain-and-simple.html

A Palestinian woman attacks a guard at a check point: Terror of checkpoint knife attack: Palestinian woman pulls out knife & stabs Israeli guard

The abduction and burning alive of a palestinian teen: Kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Price Tag movement that has been responsible for vandalism, destruction of property and livelyhood, and assaults on civilians: Price tag policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with the statement: "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." and define terrorism as acts of violence, or intimidation against civilians for the purpose of a political, ideological, religious or cultural goal.

The only example that I would not consider terrorism is attacking a military target.

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But now there are "rules" of war. If you don't abide by the rules, you are going to be considered a terrorist.

These Islamic extremists are not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. They fight for the opposite of freedom in most instances, Sharia Law. They move to other countries and fight for the right to live by these laws in other nations where some of the things might be illegal.

Rules of War is an oxymoron.

Maybe so, but according the Geneva Convention, they exist.

Conveniently, no one can find the Geneva Convention. Somewhere in Geneva? We need to have a Kabul Convention.

 

[Coyote]

I thought it would be interesting to start a topic on this when I read this post in another thread:

DGS49, et al,

Like the Secretary-General says, "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." Not even this disparity in equipment and technological superior arms. THAT IS AN INVALID EXCUSE. But it is one that the Hostile Arab-Palestinian uses quite frequently.

First - what IS terrorism? There are so many definitions but they have some commonality best expressed in the UN declaration below:


UN General Assembly Resolutions

A 1996 non-binding United Nations Declaration to Supplement the 1994 Declaration on Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism, annexed to the UN General Assembly Resolution 51/210, described terrorist activities in the following terms:[43]


"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"


Antonio Cassese has argued that the language of this and other similar UN declarations "sets out an acceptable definition of terrorism."[44]​

In the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there are many clear cut examples of terrorism and many less clear or easily "justified" examples...

The cold-blooded murder of an entire Israeli family in Itmar down to the smallest infant, while they slept in their beds: Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping

The cold blooded fire bombing of a Palestinian family's home while they slept that left a toddler dead, the two parents so severely wounded they died soon after, and a 6 yr old still fighting for his life: Duma arson attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A host of knife attacks against Israeli civilians, of which this is just one: Palestinian girls shot after stabbing elderly man with scissors

Israeli's stone a school bus full of Palestinian girls: Settlers pelt Palestinian school buses

The collective punishment of innocent civilians:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...e-punishment-is-revenge-plain-and-simple.html

A Palestinian woman attacks a guard at a check point: Terror of checkpoint knife attack: Palestinian woman pulls out knife & stabs Israeli guard

The abduction and burning alive of a palestinian teen: Kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Price Tag movement that has been responsible for vandalism, destruction of property and livelyhood, and assaults on civilians: Price tag policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with the statement: "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." and define terrorism as acts of violence, or intimidation against civilians for the purpose of a political, ideological, religious or cultural goal.

The only example that I would not consider terrorism is attacking a military target.

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But now there are "rules" of war. If you don't abide by the rules, you are going to be considered a terrorist.

These Islamic extremists are not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. They fight for the opposite of freedom in most instances, Sharia Law. They move to other countries and fight for the right to live by these laws in other nations where some of the things might be illegal.

Agree. But I can see how the Palestinians could be considered "freedom fighters" AND "terrorists". In fact - have there ever been freedom fighters who have not engaged in terrorism?

It's only AFTER victory...that they are acknowledged as "freedom fighters" and their terrorist tactics swept under the rug.

 

[Coyote]

If a country conducted war the way Islamic terrorists do, that country would have some explaining to do. That kind of thing is just unacceptable. Cutting off the heads of prisoners, burning them alive, raping them, forcing them into marriage, etc., etc., the atrocities go on and on.

But they have. The Japanese in WW2 for example. Atrocities in warfare go on all the time - look at the conflict in the Congo.

 

[ChrisL]

I thought it would be interesting to start a topic on this when I read this post in another thread:

First - what IS terrorism? There are so many definitions but they have some commonality best expressed in the UN declaration below:


UN General Assembly Resolutions

A 1996 non-binding United Nations Declaration to Supplement the 1994 Declaration on Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism, annexed to the UN General Assembly Resolution 51/210, described terrorist activities in the following terms:[43]


"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"


Antonio Cassese has argued that the language of this and other similar UN declarations "sets out an acceptable definition of terrorism."[44]​

In the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there are many clear cut examples of terrorism and many less clear or easily "justified" examples...

The cold-blooded murder of an entire Israeli family in Itmar down to the smallest infant, while they slept in their beds: Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping

The cold blooded fire bombing of a Palestinian family's home while they slept that left a toddler dead, the two parents so severely wounded they died soon after, and a 6 yr old still fighting for his life: Duma arson attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A host of knife attacks against Israeli civilians, of which this is just one: Palestinian girls shot after stabbing elderly man with scissors

Israeli's stone a school bus full of Palestinian girls: Settlers pelt Palestinian school buses

The collective punishment of innocent civilians:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...e-punishment-is-revenge-plain-and-simple.html

A Palestinian woman attacks a guard at a check point: Terror of checkpoint knife attack: Palestinian woman pulls out knife & stabs Israeli guard

The abduction and burning alive of a palestinian teen: Kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Price Tag movement that has been responsible for vandalism, destruction of property and livelyhood, and assaults on civilians: Price tag policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with the statement: "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." and define terrorism as acts of violence, or intimidation against civilians for the purpose of a political, ideological, religious or cultural goal.

The only example that I would not consider terrorism is attacking a military target.

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But now there are "rules" of war. If you don't abide by the rules, you are going to be considered a terrorist.

These Islamic extremists are not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. They fight for the opposite of freedom in most instances, Sharia Law. They move to other countries and fight for the right to live by these laws in other nations where some of the things might be illegal.

Rules of War is an oxymoron.

Maybe so, but according the Geneva Convention, they exist.

Conveniently, no one can find the Geneva Convention. Somewhere in Geneva? We need to have a Kabul Convention.

Cute! Welcome back, BTW! Long time, no see!

 

[ChrisL]

If a country conducted war the way Islamic terrorists do, that country would have some explaining to do. That kind of thing is just unacceptable. Cutting off the heads of prisoners, burning them alive, raping them, forcing them into marriage, etc., etc., the atrocities go on and on.

But they have. The Japanese in WW2 for example. Atrocities in warfare go on all the time - look at the conflict in the Congo.

And the entire world was against them (except the Germans of course).

 

[ChrisL]

I thought it would be interesting to start a topic on this when I read this post in another thread:

DGS49, et al,

Like the Secretary-General says, "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." Not even this disparity in equipment and technological superior arms. THAT IS AN INVALID EXCUSE. But it is one that the Hostile Arab-Palestinian uses quite frequently.

First - what IS terrorism? There are so many definitions but they have some commonality best expressed in the UN declaration below:


UN General Assembly Resolutions

A 1996 non-binding United Nations Declaration to Supplement the 1994 Declaration on Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism, annexed to the UN General Assembly Resolution 51/210, described terrorist activities in the following terms:[43]


"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"


Antonio Cassese has argued that the language of this and other similar UN declarations "sets out an acceptable definition of terrorism."[44]​

In the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there are many clear cut examples of terrorism and many less clear or easily "justified" examples...

The cold-blooded murder of an entire Israeli family in Itmar down to the smallest infant, while they slept in their beds: Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping

The cold blooded fire bombing of a Palestinian family's home while they slept that left a toddler dead, the two parents so severely wounded they died soon after, and a 6 yr old still fighting for his life: Duma arson attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A host of knife attacks against Israeli civilians, of which this is just one: Palestinian girls shot after stabbing elderly man with scissors

Israeli's stone a school bus full of Palestinian girls: Settlers pelt Palestinian school buses

The collective punishment of innocent civilians:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...e-punishment-is-revenge-plain-and-simple.html

A Palestinian woman attacks a guard at a check point: Terror of checkpoint knife attack: Palestinian woman pulls out knife & stabs Israeli guard

The abduction and burning alive of a palestinian teen: Kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Price Tag movement that has been responsible for vandalism, destruction of property and livelyhood, and assaults on civilians: Price tag policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with the statement: "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." and define terrorism as acts of violence, or intimidation against civilians for the purpose of a political, ideological, religious or cultural goal.

The only example that I would not consider terrorism is attacking a military target.

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But now there are "rules" of war. If you don't abide by the rules, you are going to be considered a terrorist.

These Islamic extremists are not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. They fight for the opposite of freedom in most instances, Sharia Law. They move to other countries and fight for the right to live by these laws in other nations where some of the things might be illegal.

Agree. But I can see how the Palestinians could be considered "freedom fighters" AND "terrorists". In fact - have there ever been freedom fighters who have not engaged in terrorism?

It's only AFTER victory...that they are acknowledged as "freedom fighters" and their terrorist tactics swept under the rug.

So what do you think separates crimes of war from terrorism from genocide? What the Germans did to the Jews (and others) during the WWII days? That is worse than a war crime and is considered genocide because of that. Same with terrorism tactics. Whenever innocent civilians are intentionally targeted on a regular and recurring basis and when it is used as a "tactical" maneuver to achieve a political, religious, or some other goal. That is what defines terrorism for me anyways. Now, if these terrorists succeeded in wiping out an entire "race" or ethnic group/religious group, they too would be put in the category of having committed genocide rather than terrorism (not to make light of any of these things, of course).

 

[Indofred]

Many define terrorism based on their opinions, not on reason.
That means a Palestinian killing an Israel soldier in occupied Palestine is a terrorist, but US B52s carpet bombing Cambodia was not.

If you attack unarmed civilians in order to force your opinions and ideals onto others, you're probably a terrorist.

 

[Coyote]

I thought it would be interesting to start a topic on this when I read this post in another thread:

DGS49, et al,

Like the Secretary-General says, "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." Not even this disparity in equipment and technological superior arms. THAT IS AN INVALID EXCUSE. But it is one that the Hostile Arab-Palestinian uses quite frequently.

First - what IS terrorism? There are so many definitions but they have some commonality best expressed in the UN declaration below:


UN General Assembly Resolutions

A 1996 non-binding United Nations Declaration to Supplement the 1994 Declaration on Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism, annexed to the UN General Assembly Resolution 51/210, described terrorist activities in the following terms:[43]


"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"


Antonio Cassese has argued that the language of this and other similar UN declarations "sets out an acceptable definition of terrorism."[44]​

In the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there are many clear cut examples of terrorism and many less clear or easily "justified" examples...

The cold-blooded murder of an entire Israeli family in Itmar down to the smallest infant, while they slept in their beds: Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping

The cold blooded fire bombing of a Palestinian family's home while they slept that left a toddler dead, the two parents so severely wounded they died soon after, and a 6 yr old still fighting for his life: Duma arson attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A host of knife attacks against Israeli civilians, of which this is just one: Palestinian girls shot after stabbing elderly man with scissors

Israeli's stone a school bus full of Palestinian girls: Settlers pelt Palestinian school buses

The collective punishment of innocent civilians:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...e-punishment-is-revenge-plain-and-simple.html

A Palestinian woman attacks a guard at a check point: Terror of checkpoint knife attack: Palestinian woman pulls out knife & stabs Israeli guard

The abduction and burning alive of a palestinian teen: Kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Price Tag movement that has been responsible for vandalism, destruction of property and livelyhood, and assaults on civilians: Price tag policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with the statement: "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." and define terrorism as acts of violence, or intimidation against civilians for the purpose of a political, ideological, religious or cultural goal.

The only example that I would not consider terrorism is attacking a military target.

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But now there are "rules" of war. If you don't abide by the rules, you are going to be considered a terrorist.

These Islamic extremists are not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. They fight for the opposite of freedom in most instances, Sharia Law. They move to other countries and fight for the right to live by these laws in other nations where some of the things might be illegal.

Agree. But I can see how the Palestinians could be considered "freedom fighters" AND "terrorists". In fact - have there ever been freedom fighters who have not engaged in terrorism?

It's only AFTER victory...that they are acknowledged as "freedom fighters" and their terrorist tactics swept under the rug.

So what do you think separates crimes of war from terrorism from genocide? What the Germans did to the Jews (and others) during the WWII days? That is worse than a war crime and is considered genocide because of that. Same with terrorism tactics. Whenever innocent civilians are intentionally targeted on a regular and recurring basis and when it is used as a "tactical" maneuver to achieve a political, religious, or some other goal. That is what defines terrorism for me anyways. Now, if these terrorists succeeded in wiping out an entire "race" or ethnic group/religious group, they too would be put in the category of having committed genocide rather than terrorism (not to make light of any of these things, of course).

I think there is overlap - but genocide and terrorism are two different things.

The best definition of genocide I've come across is this: What Is Genocide? — United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

[A]ny of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Terrorism is a tactic who's aim is some sort of political or cultural change through targeting civiliabs - not necessarily genocide. Genocide can be accomplished through conventional warfare, not terrorism (ie - the Holocaust, the Bosnian conflict, the Rwandan conflict).

 

[ChrisL]

I was just sharing my feelings, Pogo.

Edit: Oops, sorry, I posted this to the wrong thread.

 

[Coyote]

If a country conducted war the way Islamic terrorists do, that country would have some explaining to do. That kind of thing is just unacceptable. Cutting off the heads of prisoners, burning them alive, raping them, forcing them into marriage, etc., etc., the atrocities go on and on.

But they have. The Japanese in WW2 for example. Atrocities in warfare go on all the time - look at the conflict in the Congo.

And the entire world was against them (except the Germans of course).

Sometimes though, the "world" turns the other way, and ingores these excesses in the belief that it will aid the greater good.

 

[ChrisL]

I thought it would be interesting to start a topic on this when I read this post in another thread:

First - what IS terrorism? There are so many definitions but they have some commonality best expressed in the UN declaration below:


UN General Assembly Resolutions

A 1996 non-binding United Nations Declaration to Supplement the 1994 Declaration on Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism, annexed to the UN General Assembly Resolution 51/210, described terrorist activities in the following terms:[43]


"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"


Antonio Cassese has argued that the language of this and other similar UN declarations "sets out an acceptable definition of terrorism."[44]​

In the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there are many clear cut examples of terrorism and many less clear or easily "justified" examples...

The cold-blooded murder of an entire Israeli family in Itmar down to the smallest infant, while they slept in their beds: Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping

The cold blooded fire bombing of a Palestinian family's home while they slept that left a toddler dead, the two parents so severely wounded they died soon after, and a 6 yr old still fighting for his life: Duma arson attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A host of knife attacks against Israeli civilians, of which this is just one: Palestinian girls shot after stabbing elderly man with scissors

Israeli's stone a school bus full of Palestinian girls: Settlers pelt Palestinian school buses

The collective punishment of innocent civilians:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...e-punishment-is-revenge-plain-and-simple.html

A Palestinian woman attacks a guard at a check point: Terror of checkpoint knife attack: Palestinian woman pulls out knife & stabs Israeli guard

The abduction and burning alive of a palestinian teen: Kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Price Tag movement that has been responsible for vandalism, destruction of property and livelyhood, and assaults on civilians: Price tag policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with the statement: "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." and define terrorism as acts of violence, or intimidation against civilians for the purpose of a political, ideological, religious or cultural goal.

The only example that I would not consider terrorism is attacking a military target.

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But now there are "rules" of war. If you don't abide by the rules, you are going to be considered a terrorist.

These Islamic extremists are not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. They fight for the opposite of freedom in most instances, Sharia Law. They move to other countries and fight for the right to live by these laws in other nations where some of the things might be illegal.

Agree. But I can see how the Palestinians could be considered "freedom fighters" AND "terrorists". In fact - have there ever been freedom fighters who have not engaged in terrorism?

It's only AFTER victory...that they are acknowledged as "freedom fighters" and their terrorist tactics swept under the rug.

So what do you think separates crimes of war from terrorism from genocide? What the Germans did to the Jews (and others) during the WWII days? That is worse than a war crime and is considered genocide because of that. Same with terrorism tactics. Whenever innocent civilians are intentionally targeted on a regular and recurring basis and when it is used as a "tactical" maneuver to achieve a political, religious, or some other goal. That is what defines terrorism for me anyways. Now, if these terrorists succeeded in wiping out an entire "race" or ethnic group/religious group, they too would be put in the category of having committed genocide rather than terrorism (not to make light of any of these things, of course).

I think there is overlap - but genocide and terrorism are two different things.

The best definition of genocide I've come across is this: What Is Genocide? — United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

[A]ny of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Terrorism is a tactic who's aim is some sort of political or cultural change through targeting civiliabs - not necessarily genocide. Genocide can be accomplished through conventional warfare, not terrorism (ie - the Holocaust, the Bosnian conflict, the Rwandan conflict).

I don't really consider any of those examples "conventional."

 

[Coyote]

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But now there are "rules" of war. If you don't abide by the rules, you are going to be considered a terrorist.

These Islamic extremists are not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. They fight for the opposite of freedom in most instances, Sharia Law. They move to other countries and fight for the right to live by these laws in other nations where some of the things might be illegal.

Agree. But I can see how the Palestinians could be considered "freedom fighters" AND "terrorists". In fact - have there ever been freedom fighters who have not engaged in terrorism?

It's only AFTER victory...that they are acknowledged as "freedom fighters" and their terrorist tactics swept under the rug.

So what do you think separates crimes of war from terrorism from genocide? What the Germans did to the Jews (and others) during the WWII days? That is worse than a war crime and is considered genocide because of that. Same with terrorism tactics. Whenever innocent civilians are intentionally targeted on a regular and recurring basis and when it is used as a "tactical" maneuver to achieve a political, religious, or some other goal. That is what defines terrorism for me anyways. Now, if these terrorists succeeded in wiping out an entire "race" or ethnic group/religious group, they too would be put in the category of having committed genocide rather than terrorism (not to make light of any of these things, of course).

I think there is overlap - but genocide and terrorism are two different things.

The best definition of genocide I've come across is this: What Is Genocide? — United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

[A]ny of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Terrorism is a tactic who's aim is some sort of political or cultural change through targeting civiliabs - not necessarily genocide. Genocide can be accomplished through conventional warfare, not terrorism (ie - the Holocaust, the Bosnian conflict, the Rwandan conflict).

I don't really consider any of those examples "conventional."

I would consider WW2 "conventional warfare" or close enough based on this definition: Conventional warfare is a form of warfare conducted by using conventional weapons and battlefield tactics between two or more states in open confrontation. The forces on each side are well-defined, and fight using weapons that primarily target the opponent's military.

But you're right, maybe not Bosnia or Rwanda.

 

[Samson]

If a country conducted war the way Islamic terrorists do, that country would have some explaining to do. That kind of thing is just unacceptable. Cutting off the heads of prisoners, burning them alive, raping them, forcing them into marriage, etc., etc., the atrocities go on and on.

But they have. The Japanese in WW2 for example. Atrocities in warfare go on all the time - look at the conflict in the Congo.

Only losers commit atrocities.

 

[ChrisL]

I thought it would be interesting to start a topic on this when I read this post in another thread:

First - what IS terrorism? There are so many definitions but they have some commonality best expressed in the UN declaration below:


UN General Assembly Resolutions

A 1996 non-binding United Nations Declaration to Supplement the 1994 Declaration on Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism, annexed to the UN General Assembly Resolution 51/210, described terrorist activities in the following terms:[43]


"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"


Antonio Cassese has argued that the language of this and other similar UN declarations "sets out an acceptable definition of terrorism."[44]​

In the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there are many clear cut examples of terrorism and many less clear or easily "justified" examples...

The cold-blooded murder of an entire Israeli family in Itmar down to the smallest infant, while they slept in their beds: Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping

The cold blooded fire bombing of a Palestinian family's home while they slept that left a toddler dead, the two parents so severely wounded they died soon after, and a 6 yr old still fighting for his life: Duma arson attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A host of knife attacks against Israeli civilians, of which this is just one: Palestinian girls shot after stabbing elderly man with scissors

Israeli's stone a school bus full of Palestinian girls: Settlers pelt Palestinian school buses

The collective punishment of innocent civilians:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...e-punishment-is-revenge-plain-and-simple.html

A Palestinian woman attacks a guard at a check point: Terror of checkpoint knife attack: Palestinian woman pulls out knife & stabs Israeli guard

The abduction and burning alive of a palestinian teen: Kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Price Tag movement that has been responsible for vandalism, destruction of property and livelyhood, and assaults on civilians: Price tag policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with the statement: "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." and define terrorism as acts of violence, or intimidation against civilians for the purpose of a political, ideological, religious or cultural goal.

The only example that I would not consider terrorism is attacking a military target.

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But now there are "rules" of war. If you don't abide by the rules, you are going to be considered a terrorist.

These Islamic extremists are not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. They fight for the opposite of freedom in most instances, Sharia Law. They move to other countries and fight for the right to live by these laws in other nations where some of the things might be illegal.

Agree. But I can see how the Palestinians could be considered "freedom fighters" AND "terrorists". In fact - have there ever been freedom fighters who have not engaged in terrorism?

It's only AFTER victory...that they are acknowledged as "freedom fighters" and their terrorist tactics swept under the rug.

So what do you think separates crimes of war from terrorism from genocide? What the Germans did to the Jews (and others) during the WWII days? That is worse than a war crime and is considered genocide because of that. Same with terrorism tactics. Whenever innocent civilians are intentionally targeted on a regular and recurring basis and when it is used as a "tactical" maneuver to achieve a political, religious, or some other goal. That is what defines terrorism for me anyways. Now, if these terrorists succeeded in wiping out an entire "race" or ethnic group/religious group, they too would be put in the category of having committed genocide rather than terrorism (not to make light of any of these things, of course).

I think there is overlap - but genocide and terrorism are two different things.

The best definition of genocide I've come across is this: What Is Genocide? — United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

[A]ny of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Terrorism is a tactic who's aim is some sort of political or cultural change through targeting civiliabs - not necessarily genocide. Genocide can be accomplished through conventional warfare, not terrorism (ie - the Holocaust, the Bosnian conflict, the Rwandan conflict).

The rounding up and extermination of innocent citizens is what the Nazis did during the war. Killing all of those people in gas chambers? Throwing babies and toddlers into fire pits? Performing macabre experiments on Jewish prisoners? Doesn't sound very "conventional" to me!

 

[Coyote]

Nice Thread/Topic.

Anything can be justified by someone. Rarely is Anything justified by Everyone.

Historically, terrorism has been pretty routine. You want to Win the Next Battle? Don't take prisoners and kill every man woman and child of the enemy. Then threaten the next enemy with the same unless they surrender and become an ally. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But now there are "rules" of war. If you don't abide by the rules, you are going to be considered a terrorist.

These Islamic extremists are not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. They fight for the opposite of freedom in most instances, Sharia Law. They move to other countries and fight for the right to live by these laws in other nations where some of the things might be illegal.

Agree. But I can see how the Palestinians could be considered "freedom fighters" AND "terrorists". In fact - have there ever been freedom fighters who have not engaged in terrorism?

It's only AFTER victory...that they are acknowledged as "freedom fighters" and their terrorist tactics swept under the rug.

So what do you think separates crimes of war from terrorism from genocide? What the Germans did to the Jews (and others) during the WWII days? That is worse than a war crime and is considered genocide because of that. Same with terrorism tactics. Whenever innocent civilians are intentionally targeted on a regular and recurring basis and when it is used as a "tactical" maneuver to achieve a political, religious, or some other goal. That is what defines terrorism for me anyways. Now, if these terrorists succeeded in wiping out an entire "race" or ethnic group/religious group, they too would be put in the category of having committed genocide rather than terrorism (not to make light of any of these things, of course).

I think there is overlap - but genocide and terrorism are two different things.

The best definition of genocide I've come across is this: What Is Genocide? — United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

[A]ny of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Terrorism is a tactic who's aim is some sort of political or cultural change through targeting civiliabs - not necessarily genocide. Genocide can be accomplished through conventional warfare, not terrorism (ie - the Holocaust, the Bosnian conflict, the Rwandan conflict).

The rounding up and extermination of innocent citizens is what the Nazis did during the war. Killing all of those people in gas chambers? Throwing babies and toddlers into fire pits? Performing macabre experiments on Jewish prisoners? Doesn't sound very "conventional" to me!

That was genocide - but the war the German's were fighting was "conventional" in the sense of the definition.

Terrorism and guerilla warfare are considered "unconventional" or assymetric - they don't involve states fighting states.