Can someone show me where the Constitution says I must pay for someone else's healthcare.

[initforme]

The free market worked pretty effectively for healthcare for generations before the government got involved in it. Those without insurance still got their healthcare but were usually put on a payout system over time for the services they received. We all paid out of pocket for those then inexpensive vaccinations for our kids or for the $5 it cost for them to see a doctor. Insurance was for HOSPITLIZATION and still had pretty hefty deductibles but most employers offered it for their employees in part or all as part of their compensation as it was far more affordable than it is now. A night in the hospital was about $50. The most expensive insulin before Medicare went into effect was about $9/vial and most was much less than that.

Again, medical suppliers and providers could not be in business unless they offered products and services that most people could afford. But when the deep pockets of government get involved, the prices rise out of reach for all but the very rich.

What good is 'cheap' insurance courtesy of the federal government if deductibles and copays make it difficult or unfeasible for people to use?

In all things, the wise consider the unintended consequences of government initiatives and policies and are beguiled by wonderful sounding titles of government programs that don't deliver as advertised.

American worker first. Zero employee i surance deductibles. Zero.

 

[Winston]

Health care works fine a free market. But lots of people don't like free markets, so they pass laws that thwart it.

?? What does that mean? How does "equal consideration" apply?

Look, I don't know how hard it is to understand. For instance, beef prices are getting out of hand. So what, pick another protein. Chicken has remained pretty cheap. Pork is a great option with no upside movement in price. Even seafood is holding its own. So the consumer can react, substitution also comes into play.

How does that hold true with healthcare? Take your insulin shot, OR ******* DIE. What choice do you have? On the other hand, the insulin provider, they just sell it to the next person. You die, they lose next to nothing, can you start to understand equal consideration?

I mean who are these people that can't see that the healthcare marketplace is not the place to be shopping around, looking for substitution, and trying to do without. I mean do you shop for healthcare? Hell, my insurance company encourages it, gives me tools, offers me cash if I choose a less expensive provider, at least per their contract,

Had a hernia operation back in the late spring. Hell, I know the moment I did it. And there was no shopping around, there was no substitution. Doctor was like, we can wait, you have to get it done, but it is no hurry. I was adamant, no, I talk to your scheduling coordinator today. I think the surgeon appreciated that.

But I got it done, in a hurry. I didn't shop around. I got a great primary care doctor, he is in some really high demand and I was a legacy patient from his mentor. I just go to who he tells me to, and it has always worked out well. I mean come on, these people are going to be cutting into you, moving shit around, what kind of tire kicking do you think you need to do?

The reality is, this free market approach to health care, even with the influence of Medicare, and the VA for that matter. Bush's Medicare changes were directed at the free market. Even Obamacare, the ACA, the engine was the free market. Enough already. We are morphing to a single payer in spite of strong resistance. It is the nature of the beast. I mean we all need to come to an epiphany.

I mean health care has not always been this way, not even close. Of course the founders didn't even phantom it meaning anything. Although, I will say, they financed small-pox vaccines for Native Americans to be delivered by Lewis and Clark. That didn't turn out so well. Embarrassing actually. But it was hard times.

Bear with me. In North Carolina, you had to get a physical to get married, back in the day. So I did, I was like 21. 1983. No problems, got married, forgot about it. Eleven years later I show up at work, Outback, server. Manager is like, you can't work, look at your throat, swollen, huge. So I go home.

I show up at the doctor's office first thing in the morning. They got no record of me. I assure them, I am a patient, told them it was like eleven years ago. "He is in the basement", one of the nurses proclaims, they tell me to come back at eleven. They take me right back, Doc comes in pretty quick, they do some labs, he tells me to wait for him in his office.

It has only happened once since then, and it was when that doctor retired and turned me over to my current doctor. It was my current doctor that met me in the office, after his first physical with me. Office was cluttered, busy man, Vanderbilt Medical School, I am impressed. Second generation from the photos on the walls.

He strolls in, sits at his desk, looks at me, and goes, "You are going to die". I don't miss a beat. "Damn right I am going to die, if you don't prescribe me an antibiotic to take out this infection". He falls out laughing, grabs his prescription pad, and then gets serious, "Why has it been eleven years?". Damn, nothing is wrong Doc, I am just humming. He was like, come see me, at least once a year. And I did, and he retired and gave me a great replacement.

That is what healthcare in America has always been. I mean these are real people, with real feelings. But it should not be based on dollars and cents. It never really was, until after WWII. And it quickly got out of control. Now, it is completely FUBARED.

Nothing really points to the difference between the parties than the ACA, Obamacare. That single act completely severed the ball and chain that was employer provided healthcare. It had a huge economic impact, perhaps, the greatest since the education benefits for WWII vets. Losing that ball and chain, oh how the companies wailed. I mean I can hear Walmart, they probably lost more than anyone. When is the last time you saw a "greeter"?

So that is what the opposition was all about. Honestly, I can't think of anything more reprehensible. Enslave the people dammit. Fair? WTF is "fair".

 

[dblack]

Yep. However, that doesnt solve heath care massive massive issues. No person working at least 40 hours per week, making a LOUSY GODFORSAKEN 50 thousand LOUSY dollard per year should have to go without health care.

And they wouldn't, if we merely legalized it. Instead, we've let a cabal of well-heeled corporations write their own regulations. And now health care and health care insurance cost way too much and we are legally prohibited from seeking alternatives.

Nobody in the greatest nation on earth should ever go bsnkrupt because of healthcare if they are working full time. You disagree.

It depends on what they're doing "full time". If they're wasting their time on something that doesn't provide any value to society, I don't see why we should support that.

 

[Foxfyre]

American worker first. Zero employee i surance deductibles. Zero.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. The government does not manufacture money out of thin air. The citizens pay for it either in taxes or in devalued money/inflation or other consequences of unwise and/or unconstitutional government spending.

 

[NetJedi]

How uninformed and simplistic. The reason health insurance is so expensive is that the market is segmented.

You're obviously a graduate of the Hogwarts School of Economics where negative outcomes are the result of garbled incantations.

Look it up, it is a microeconomic concept used to maximize profits. The foundation of our health insurance system is employer provided health insurance.

Yeah, because the federal government intervened in the labor market by capping wage compensation during WW II forcing employers to get creative to compete for labor; action..... reaction.

"All varieties of interference with the market phenomena not only fail to achieve the ends aimed at by their authors and supporters, but bring about a state of affairs which … is less desirable than the previous state of affairs which they were designed to alter." -- Ludwig von Mises

 

[dblack]

This has to be the dumbest OP I have seen in months.

Let's make a list of everything the feds do that is granted permission by the constitution but isnt enumerated in the constitution!

Indeed, let's do that! It's the biggest problem with the Federal government. It has far to much power, which is why we are on the verge of civil war every time there's an election.

 

[dblack]

American worker first. Zero employee i surance deductibles. Zero.

Why? I mean, if someone wants deal with their own healthcare costs, and doesn't want their employer involved, why should they be forced to pay for insurance they don't want??

 

[Marener]

Dammit nostra, you just destroyed their whole argument! Gotta at least give 'em a chance!!

Fascinating. So Medicare is unconstitutional and all old people are on their own.

 

[dblack]

Fascinating. So Medicare is unconstitutional and all old people are on their own.

Yep. If we adhere to the Constitution.

But stow the chicken little nonsense. These kinds of programs would be replaced by other societal solutions. People wouldn't just be starving in the streets.

Liberals never want to hear this, but we can solve most of our problems as a society without resorting to coercive mandates and laws.

 

[Nostra]

Bwahahahahahahaha.

Show me where in the constitution I have to read your stupid posts?

Never said you did, Simp.

Still no answer, huh?

Dismissed.

 

[Nostra]

This has to be the dumbest OP I have seen in months.

Let's make a list of everything the feds do that is granted permission by the constitution but isnt enumerated in the constitution!

I'll bet Nostradumbass really thought he had something.

View attachment 1173349

Cool.

I’ll start:

Eduction.

 

[NetJedi]

There is no such thing as a free lunch. The government does not manufacture money out of thin air. The citizens pay for it either in taxes or in devalued money/inflation or other consequences of unwise and/or unconstitutional government spending.

Yes, in fact it does in cooperation with the Federal Reserve (technically currency not money), which explains the ever shrinking purchasing power of the dollar.

The only thing that's kept that purchasing power from disappearing entirely is the dollars position as the World's Reserve Currency, but that won't last forever.

"If something cannot go on forever, it will stop." -- Ben Stein

 

[initforme]

Why? I mean, if someone wants deal with their own healthcare costs, and doesn't want their employer involved, why should they be forced to pay for insurance they don't want??

Do you think most paycheck to paycheck workers (70 percent of the nation) can pay an sdditional $1200 per month for healthcare? Wheres the reality in this awful rat race?

 

[Marener]

Yep. If we adhere to the Constitution.

But stow the chicken little nonsense. These kinds of programs would be replaced by other societal solutions. People wouldn't just be starving in the streets.

Liberals never want to hear this, but we can solve most of our problems as a society without resorting to coercive mandates and laws.

Okay. Let’s test it out. We can start in Florida. End Medicare and Medicaid in Florida and see what happens.

 

[dblack]

Do you think most paycheck to paycheck workers (70 percent of the nation) can pay an sdditional $1200 per month for healthcare? Wheres the reality in this awful rat race?

As I said, the current system is disaster. There's no reason health insurance should cost $1200 a month. But the regulatory regime has us pinned to that model. Free it up and let people solve their problems.

 

[Marener]

As I said, the current system is disaster. There's no reason health insurance should cost $1200 a month. But the regulatory regime has us pinned to that model. Free it up and let people solve their problems.

The reason health insurance costs so much is that medical care costs so much.

 

[dblack]

The reason health insurance costs so much is that medical care costs so much.

That's part of. But health care costs too much as well. Also because of bad government policy. We could get into all the reasons, if you want, but we'd probably be talking past each other. I've found modern liberals, just in general, want government controlling things, and they'll argue for that regardless.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes, in fact it does in cooperation with the Federal Reserve (technically currency not money), which explains the ever shrinking purchasing power of the dollar.

The only thing that's kept that purchasing power from disappearing entirely is the dollars position as the World's Reserve Currency, but that won't last forever.

"If something cannot go on forever, it will stop." -- Ben Stein

You must not have read my entire post.

 

[Marener]

That's part of. But health care costs too much as well. Also because of bad government policy. We could get into all the reasons, if you want, but we'd probably be talking past each other. I've found modern liberals, just in general, want government controlling things, and they'll argue for that regardless.

If you think you know why healthcare costs so much, by all means please share your knowledge.

I think you guys often underestimate the amount of capitalism throughout the system and how good they are at extracting money from their customers.

 

[drudge X]

Imagine, NY voted for this asshole Schumer since 81.