Can Christianity Stand By Itself?

[Freewill]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

Christians say it not because they made it up but because: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Now I am a bit open minded on this.

For starters Jesus didn't answer anything. Others claimed he did and spoke for him (since he was long dead.) Coulda made anything up and said "Jesus said this..." or Jesus did that. Not like anyone ever invented religion and pulled miracles out of their hat or anything...

As I said, your mind is closed, so why do you ask the same questions over an over? The only reason I can see is that you don't think Christianity is for you, fine so be it. But I will tell you that regardless of what you think keeps you out, it does not have to be that way. It is up to YOU.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

Christians say it not because they made it up but because: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Now I am a bit open minded on this.

For starters Jesus didn't answer anything. Others claimed he did and spoke for him (since he was long dead.) Coulda made anything up and said "Jesus said this..." or Jesus did that. Not like anyone ever invented religion and pulled miracles out of their hat or anything...

As I said, your mind is closed, so why do you ask the same questions over an over? The only reason I can see is that you don't think Christianity is for you, fine so be it. But I will tell you that regardless of what you think keeps you out, it does not have to be that way. It is up to YOU.

Because I believe Christianity and every other religion is dangerous and destructive. So every time some theist reads my stuff they're forced to think about my disblief and reasoning. If I'm right about it, they'll be forced to agree. In time then, religion wont vanish completely, but it's grip on policy and resulting damage will be reduced.

 

[Freewill]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

Christians say it not because they made it up but because: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Now I am a bit open minded on this.

For starters Jesus didn't answer anything. Others claimed he did and spoke for him (since he was long dead.) Coulda made anything up and said "Jesus said this..." or Jesus did that. Not like anyone ever invented religion and pulled miracles out of their hat or anything...

Think about it. Say you are going to start a religion, for whatever reason the early Christians had for doing so. You make up a story about this imaginary person Jesus (which He wasn't imaginary). How do you portray the savior of the world? Like Jesus is portrayed, being whipped, publicly humiliated, and hung on a cross to die? Or do you make up a story of him being a warrior who never dies but is taken up triumphantly into Heaven from a rock? Or portray your founder as a prophet that was given golden tablets to write the story of Jesus that can't not be substantiated by fact?

Would you make up such a lie about a man named Jesus then go to the cross yourself to be crucified? Would anyone who was making up a story do such a thing? MAYBE one but many?

 

[Freewill]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

Christians say it not because they made it up but because: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Now I am a bit open minded on this.

For starters Jesus didn't answer anything. Others claimed he did and spoke for him (since he was long dead.) Coulda made anything up and said "Jesus said this..." or Jesus did that. Not like anyone ever invented religion and pulled miracles out of their hat or anything...

As I said, your mind is closed, so why do you ask the same questions over an over? The only reason I can see is that you don't think Christianity is for you, fine so be it. But I will tell you that regardless of what you think keeps you out, it does not have to be that way. It is up to YOU.

Because I believe Christianity and every other religion is dangerous and destructive. So every time some theist reads my stuff they're forced to think about my disblief and reasoning. If I'm right about it, they'll be forced to agree. In time then, religion wont vanish completely, but it's grip on policy and resulting damage will be reduced.

How is Christianity today, in your eyes, destructive? Because Christians mostly believe that marriage is between a man and a woman? What is being destroyed? That they believe that the destruction of life in the womb is wrong?

It seems to me that you have a it hard against Christians for some reason other then the one you are giving. That has to be the case because I see almost nothing destructive but I do see Christian charity EVERYWHERE. I don't see that from other faiths or religions. And no the Charity is not a form of signing bonus.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

Christians say it not because they made it up but because: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Now I am a bit open minded on this.

For starters Jesus didn't answer anything. Others claimed he did and spoke for him (since he was long dead.) Coulda made anything up and said "Jesus said this..." or Jesus did that. Not like anyone ever invented religion and pulled miracles out of their hat or anything...

Think about it. Say you are going to start a religion, for whatever reason the early Christians had for doing so. You make up a story about this imaginary person Jesus (which He wasn't imaginary). How do you portray the savior of the world? Like Jesus is portrayed, being whipped, publicly humiliated, and hung on a cross to die? Or do you make up a story of him being a warrior who never dies but is taken up triumphantly into Heaven from a rock? Or portray your founder as a prophet that was given golden tablets to write the story of Jesus that can't not be substantiated by fact?

Would you make up such a lie about a man named Jesus then go to the cross yourself to be crucified? Would anyone who was making up a story do such a thing? MAYBE one but many?

Not the first time someone sacrficed themself over a belief.

 

[Freewill]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

Christians say it not because they made it up but because: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Now I am a bit open minded on this.

For starters Jesus didn't answer anything. Others claimed he did and spoke for him (since he was long dead.) Coulda made anything up and said "Jesus said this..." or Jesus did that. Not like anyone ever invented religion and pulled miracles out of their hat or anything...

Think about it. Say you are going to start a religion, for whatever reason the early Christians had for doing so. You make up a story about this imaginary person Jesus (which He wasn't imaginary). How do you portray the savior of the world? Like Jesus is portrayed, being whipped, publicly humiliated, and hung on a cross to die? Or do you make up a story of him being a warrior who never dies but is taken up triumphantly into Heaven from a rock? Or portray your founder as a prophet that was given golden tablets to write the story of Jesus that can't not be substantiated by fact?

Would you make up such a lie about a man named Jesus then go to the cross yourself to be crucified? Would anyone who was making up a story do such a thing? MAYBE one but many?

Not the first time someone sacrficed themself over a belief.

As I said, many? Many sacrificing themselves for that which they know is a lie, which you imply? Did this monk believe why he was sacrificing himself was over a lie? Obviously you will say he didn't think it was a lie, exactly correct. That is why ALL monks don't sacrifice themselves as he did.

BTW, he chose to sacrifice himself.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

Christians say it not because they made it up but because: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Now I am a bit open minded on this.

For starters Jesus didn't answer anything. Others claimed he did and spoke for him (since he was long dead.) Coulda made anything up and said "Jesus said this..." or Jesus did that. Not like anyone ever invented religion and pulled miracles out of their hat or anything...

Think about it. Say you are going to start a religion, for whatever reason the early Christians had for doing so. You make up a story about this imaginary person Jesus (which He wasn't imaginary). How do you portray the savior of the world? Like Jesus is portrayed, being whipped, publicly humiliated, and hung on a cross to die? Or do you make up a story of him being a warrior who never dies but is taken up triumphantly into Heaven from a rock? Or portray your founder as a prophet that was given golden tablets to write the story of Jesus that can't not be substantiated by fact?

Would you make up such a lie about a man named Jesus then go to the cross yourself to be crucified? Would anyone who was making up a story do such a thing? MAYBE one but many?

Seriously?

The premise was that the founder of your religion had to die for your sins in order for you to get into heaven. How would it be credible if he was this gallant warrior who always won every battle?

You needed a victim instead. Someone who never harmed anyone so that when he was killed it was a "sacrifice" on your behalf.

And stories of this kind were around ling before Jesus. The concept of a "son of God" arriving on earth and being killed predates Christianity.

10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus - Listverse

For example;

Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles. He “rode in a triumphal procession on an ass.” He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification. Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25. He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine. He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.” He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.” He was identified with the Ram or Lamb. His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.

Zoroaster was born of a virgin and “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason.” He was baptized in a river. In his youth he astounded wise men with his wisdom. He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil. He began his ministry at age 30. Zoroaster baptized with water, fire and “holy wind.” He cast out demons and restored the sight to a blind man. He taught about heaven and hell, and revealed mysteries, including resurrection, judgment, salvation and the apocalypse. He had a sacred cup or grail. He was slain. His religion had a eucharist. He was the “Word made flesh.” Zoroaster’s followers expected a “second coming” in the virgin-born Saoshynt or Savior, who is to come in 2341 AD and begin his ministry at age 30, ushering in a golden age.

 

[emilynghiem]

Could Christianity exist without Judaism? Could the Bible be the book of Christianity without the OT?

Since Judaism can exist without Christianity, and did until Christianity came along, why does Christianity (or Islam for that matter) need a previous religion to establish it's legitimacy? Isn't a derivitive religion just emphasizing it's illegitimacy by attaching itself to some previous religion?

Christianity can be taught through the Buddhist path that reaches the same fulfillment at the end,
Christianity can be taught through constitutional and natural laws that are fulfilled in the same spirit of
Truth and Justice that God and Jesus represent, bringing Peace and order as represented by the Holy Spirit.

You can be any denomination and still embrace practice and reach Christianity.
The only practices I found that are incompatible are the dark occult practices that compete and clash with
positive natural life-giving healing energy, by seeking to manipulate negative energy with ill will for retribution.
as long as people are seeking to learn and grow toward spiritual maturity and peace, then
Christianity teaches the fulfillment of that path regardless of the journey each soul takes to get there.

all rivers merge in spirit to lead to the same ocean.
the spirit of Christianity is to teach divine forgiveness and healing grace as equal charity justice and peace for all
so all tribes on all paths can get there together as one in spirit, united in universal truth peace and justice for all humanity.

Delta4Embassy
it is not just the Judaic laws and tribe to be fulfilled in Christ Jesus as Restorative Justice
but ALL the laws from ALL tribes and nations fulfilled in truth and justice to bring lasting peace. Amen!

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Could Christianity exist without Judaism? Could the Bible be the book of Christianity without the OT?

Since Judaism can exist without Christianity, and did until Christianity came along, why does Christianity (or Islam for that matter) need a previous religion to establish it's legitimacy? Isn't a derivitive religion just emphasizing it's illegitimacy by attaching itself to some previous religion?

Christianity can be taught through the Buddhist path that reaches the same fulfillment at the end,
Christianity can be taught through constitutional and natural laws that are fulfilled in the same spirit of
Truth and Justice that God and Jesus represent, bringing Peace and order as represented by the Holy Spirit.

You can be any denomination and still embrace practice and reach Christianity.
The only practices I found that are incompatible are the dark occult practices that compete and clash with
positive natural life-giving healing energy, by seeking to manipulate negative energy with ill will for retribution.
as long as people are seeking to learn and grow toward spiritual maturity and peace, then
Christianity teaches the fulfillment of that path regardless of the journey each soul takes to get there.

all rivers merge in spirit to lead to the same ocean.
the spirit of Christianity is to teach divine forgiveness and healing grace as equal charity justice and peace for all
so all tribes on all paths can get there together as one in spirit, united in universal truth peace and justice for all humanity.

Delta4Embassy
it is not just the Judaic laws and tribe to be fulfilled in Christ Jesus as Restorative Justice
but ALL the laws from ALL tribes and nations fulfilled in truth and justice to bring lasting peace. Amen!

While that's a very impressive, lengthy, and thorough answer to a question, it's not in the ballpark of what I asked.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

There's only one valid logical answer. Some got it right, most didn't. More you obfuscate and dance around the obviousness of it, more you stand exposed as dishonest about things. You're standing on the bow of a sinking ship saying "The ship isn't sinking" even as the stern goes under.

 

[emilynghiem]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

Christians say it not because they made it up but because: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Now I am a bit open minded on this.

For starters Jesus didn't answer anything. Others claimed he did and spoke for him (since he was long dead.) Coulda made anything up and said "Jesus said this..." or Jesus did that. Not like anyone ever invented religion and pulled miracles out of their hat or anything...

Think about it. Say you are going to start a religion, for whatever reason the early Christians had for doing so. You make up a story about this imaginary person Jesus (which He wasn't imaginary). How do you portray the savior of the world? Like Jesus is portrayed, being whipped, publicly humiliated, and hung on a cross to die? Or do you make up a story of him being a warrior who never dies but is taken up triumphantly into Heaven from a rock? Or portray your founder as a prophet that was given golden tablets to write the story of Jesus that can't not be substantiated by fact?

Would you make up such a lie about a man named Jesus then go to the cross yourself to be crucified? Would anyone who was making up a story do such a thing? MAYBE one but many?

Seriously?

The premise was that the founder of your religion had to die for your sins in order for you to get into heaven. How would it be credible if he was this gallant warrior who always won every battle?

You needed a victim instead. Someone who never harmed anyone so that when he was killed it was a "sacrifice" on your behalf.

And stories of this kind were around ling before Jesus. The concept of a "son of God" arriving on earth and being killed predates Christianity.

10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus - Listverse

For example;

Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles. He “rode in a triumphal procession on an ass.” He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification. Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25. He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine. He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.” He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.” He was identified with the Ram or Lamb. His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.

Zoroaster was born of a virgin and “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason.” He was baptized in a river. In his youth he astounded wise men with his wisdom. He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil. He began his ministry at age 30. Zoroaster baptized with water, fire and “holy wind.” He cast out demons and restored the sight to a blind man. He taught about heaven and hell, and revealed mysteries, including resurrection, judgment, salvation and the apocalypse. He had a sacred cup or grail. He was slain. His religion had a eucharist. He was the “Word made flesh.” Zoroaster’s followers expected a “second coming” in the virgin-born Saoshynt or Savior, who is to come in 2341 AD and begin his ministry at age 30, ushering in a golden age.

Dear Derideo_Te
this theme and recurring pattern represents the spiritual stages of development
that all persons go through individually in life and all cultures go through over generations.

the sacrifice of christ represents the COLLECTIVE central level of all these COMBINED experinces in one symbol.
look at the 12-step program and you'll see the same basic patterns

of hitting rock bottom and suffering from past accumulated garbage
and then "letting go and forgiving" to find freedom redemption and healing from the past
and starting anew or being "reborn or remade" in a new life without those conditions attached

The Bible helps represent this universal process for each person uniquely and for all humanity's history collectively

that's why the same patterns repeat throughout history and in our lives today

that's the whole point
it IS universal and expressed in different ways by each person or culture

Jesus just represents the central breaking of the vicious cycle to bring healing resolution and closure
to unite all people and all humanity in one global spiritual process regardless how we express it

 

[Meriweather]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

I think you will find the majority of Christianity does not proclaim, "If you don't believe it, you will go to hell." The Catholic catechism recognizes that the Jews have an everlasting covenant with God, and God will not forsake that covenant.

The Old Testament is a revelation of God, just as the New Testament continues that revelation. Jews continue with the original interpretation that the Messiah will be a human, earthly king. Christians accept the teaching that Jesus is God, and that his kingdom is not of this world.

 

[emilynghiem]

Could Christianity exist without Judaism? Could the Bible be the book of Christianity without the OT?

Since Judaism can exist without Christianity, and did until Christianity came along, why does Christianity (or Islam for that matter) need a previous religion to establish it's legitimacy? Isn't a derivitive religion just emphasizing it's illegitimacy by attaching itself to some previous religion?

Christianity can be taught through the Buddhist path that reaches the same fulfillment at the end,
Christianity can be taught through constitutional and natural laws that are fulfilled in the same spirit of
Truth and Justice that God and Jesus represent, bringing Peace and order as represented by the Holy Spirit.

You can be any denomination and still embrace practice and reach Christianity.
The only practices I found that are incompatible are the dark occult practices that compete and clash with
positive natural life-giving healing energy, by seeking to manipulate negative energy with ill will for retribution.
as long as people are seeking to learn and grow toward spiritual maturity and peace, then
Christianity teaches the fulfillment of that path regardless of the journey each soul takes to get there.

all rivers merge in spirit to lead to the same ocean.
the spirit of Christianity is to teach divine forgiveness and healing grace as equal charity justice and peace for all
so all tribes on all paths can get there together as one in spirit, united in universal truth peace and justice for all humanity.

Delta4Embassy
it is not just the Judaic laws and tribe to be fulfilled in Christ Jesus as Restorative Justice
but ALL the laws from ALL tribes and nations fulfilled in truth and justice to bring lasting peace. Amen!

While that's a very impressive, lengthy, and thorough answer to a question, it's not in the ballpark of what I asked.

I'm saying Christianity already exists and is practiced through these other faiths not just judaism

Delta4Embassy I even know an ATHEIST who teaches and practices Christianity without religion attached at all
without any references to God or Jesus but still teaches abundance of free grace which is Christianity in secular form
he teaches peace and justice and I teach it as Restorative Justice

So the ANSWER IS YES

Because Christianity means Perfect Charity
and Christ Jesus means Restorative Justice


Both Charity exists without dependence on Judaism Christianity or JudeoChristian laws
and Restorative Justice exists without dependence on these either

The answer is YES THEY ALREADY EXIST

 

[Derideo_Te]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

Christians say it not because they made it up but because: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Now I am a bit open minded on this.

For starters Jesus didn't answer anything. Others claimed he did and spoke for him (since he was long dead.) Coulda made anything up and said "Jesus said this..." or Jesus did that. Not like anyone ever invented religion and pulled miracles out of their hat or anything...

Think about it. Say you are going to start a religion, for whatever reason the early Christians had for doing so. You make up a story about this imaginary person Jesus (which He wasn't imaginary). How do you portray the savior of the world? Like Jesus is portrayed, being whipped, publicly humiliated, and hung on a cross to die? Or do you make up a story of him being a warrior who never dies but is taken up triumphantly into Heaven from a rock? Or portray your founder as a prophet that was given golden tablets to write the story of Jesus that can't not be substantiated by fact?

Would you make up such a lie about a man named Jesus then go to the cross yourself to be crucified? Would anyone who was making up a story do such a thing? MAYBE one but many?

Seriously?

The premise was that the founder of your religion had to die for your sins in order for you to get into heaven. How would it be credible if he was this gallant warrior who always won every battle?

You needed a victim instead. Someone who never harmed anyone so that when he was killed it was a "sacrifice" on your behalf.

And stories of this kind were around ling before Jesus. The concept of a "son of God" arriving on earth and being killed predates Christianity.

10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus - Listverse

For example;

Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles. He “rode in a triumphal procession on an ass.” He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification. Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25. He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine. He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.” He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.” He was identified with the Ram or Lamb. His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.

Zoroaster was born of a virgin and “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason.” He was baptized in a river. In his youth he astounded wise men with his wisdom. He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil. He began his ministry at age 30. Zoroaster baptized with water, fire and “holy wind.” He cast out demons and restored the sight to a blind man. He taught about heaven and hell, and revealed mysteries, including resurrection, judgment, salvation and the apocalypse. He had a sacred cup or grail. He was slain. His religion had a eucharist. He was the “Word made flesh.” Zoroaster’s followers expected a “second coming” in the virgin-born Saoshynt or Savior, who is to come in 2341 AD and begin his ministry at age 30, ushering in a golden age.

Dear Derideo_Te
this theme and recurring pattern represents the spiritual stages of development
that all persons go through individually in life and all cultures go through over generations.

the sacrifice of christ represents the COLLECTIVE central level of all these COMBINED experinces in one symbol.
look at the 12-step program and you'll see the same basic patterns

of hitting rock bottom and suffering from past accumulated garbage
and then "letting go and forgiving" to find freedom redemption and healing from the past
and starting anew or being "reborn or remade" in a new life without those conditions attached

The Bible helps represent this universal process for each person uniquely and for all humanity's history collectively

that's why the same patterns repeat throughout history and in our lives today

that's the whole point
it IS universal and expressed in different ways by each person or culture

Jesus just represents the central breaking of the vicious cycle to bring healing resolution and closure
to unite all people and all humanity in one global spiritual process regardless how we express it

Dear Emily,

Every religion makes the exact same claims to be the "one answer". The hard truth is no religion knows what happens after we die. We actually stand a better chance of discovering that via science than religion in my opinion but that is a digression.

Per the OP question Christianity is just the latest reincarnation of the religious concept of a savior. It stands on the ashes of the religions that have withered and died in the past.

The book "Small Gods" makes a better case for religion than the bible does in my opinion and that is fiction.

Religion serves a purpose in the lives of many people but no religion is any better than any other because all of them promise things they cannot deliver.

 

[emilynghiem]

FALSE:

"Every religion makes the exact same claims to be the "one answer"

1. People who claim this "at the exclusion of others" are by definition NOT universal.
Most PEOPLE are flawed and have this notion that I'm right others are wrong,
or I'm innocent until proven guilty, but THAT person/group is Wrong, and guilty until proven otherwise!

You are talking about selfish human behavior.
And yes this gets projected through religion but is not the religion
itself which is just the language for the laws. these are flawed due to cultural biases,
but no, it is NOT a requirement that religions claim to be the only one

Lots of people have contested this assertion that religions teach that.
it depends on the person doing the teaching.

2. Bahai and Buddhism and Universalism also
recognize all faiths as proper paths for those persons.

DT why are you "conveniently" leaving out the religious
approaches that would prove you wrong by negating your statement?

Can't you give SOME credit to Bahai, Buddhists and others who say
ALL paths are right for that person?

This is what I cannot figure out DT.
If someone hates the interpretation of God and Christianity as being exclusive and judgmental/punishing,
WHY KEEP teaching that as the "only way" that these things mean?
When there are PLENTY of deists theists and Christians who teach God a different way
that INCLUDES all people in salvation and heaven.

And here, when there are PLENTY of people and religions NOT teaching theirs is th eonly way,
why TEACH that "all religions do this."

That makes no sense.
If there are right answers out there, why keep teaching the wrong answers you disagree with!!!

????

Religion serves a purpose in the lives of many people but no religion is any better than any other because all of them promise things they cannot deliver.

Religion is like someone's native language for how they understand things.
I am not going to criticize someone for speaking native Spanish or speaking English only
if that's what they are used to using and they think in those terms.

So if someone was brought up Catholic but found Islam speaks to them, I want them to have that.
If someone uses Constitutionalism or the Bible or the Democratic platform,
whatever defines their goals in life, I just want them to be consistent effective and happy solving
problems using the system that works for them.

religion should be used as a tool not a weapon.

same with govt laws and authority that are too often abused for political power.

if you are not going to throw out all laws and all govt to stop abuses
then why should we throw out religions either that are abused.

with govt laws, we use the system to correct itself.
and that is what the consistent Christians use their laws for, to
rebuke and correct each other to stop and prevent abuses or trespasses when
something is going wrong or there is conflict. so these should be used
properly, just as state and secular laws should be used in keeping with their intended purpose.

you don't throw them in the trash because of corrupt govt,
you fix the corrupt govt so that it follows the laws as intended.

and same with religious laws: whichever leaders or members choose to follow
those laws, then you use them to police each other. nothing wrong with that.

 

[foggedinn]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

JEWS deny, which was foretold, the OT does not.

44 Prophecies Jesus Christ Fulfilled Prophecies About JesusOld Testament
ScriptureNew Testament
Fulfillment1Messiah would be born of a woman.Genesis 3:15Matthew 1:20
Galatians 4:42
Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.Micah 5:2Matthew 2:1
Luke 2:4-63
Messiah would be born of a virgin.Isaiah 7:14Matthew 1:22-23
Luke 1:26-314
Messiah would come from the line of Abraham.Genesis 12:3
Genesis 22:18Matthew 1:1
Romans 9:55
Messiah would be a descendant of Isaac.Genesis 17:19
Genesis 21:12Luke 3:346
Messiah would be a descendant of Jacob.Numbers 24:17Matthew 1:27Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah.Genesis 49:10Luke 3:33
Hebrews 7:148
Messiah would be heir to King David's throne.2 Samuel 7:12-13
Isaiah 9:7Luke 1:32-33
Romans 1:39
Messiah's throne will be anointed and eternal.Psalm 45:6-7
Daniel 2:44Luke 1:33
Hebrews 1:8-1210
Messiah would be called Immanuel.Isaiah 7:14Matthew 1:2311
Messiah would spend a season in Egypt.Hosea 11:1Matthew 2:14-1512A
massacre of children would happen at Messiah's birthplace.Jeremiah 31:15Matthew 2:16-1813
A messenger would prepare the way for MessiahIsaiah 40:3-5Luke 3:3-614
Messiah would be rejected by his own people.Psalm 69:8
Isaiah 53:3John 1:11
John 7:515
Messiah would be a prophet.Deuteronomy 18:15Acts 3:20-2216
Messiah would be preceded by Elijah.Malachi 4:5-6Matthew 11:13-1417
Messiah would be declared the Son of God.Psalm 2:7Matthew 3:16-1718
Messiah would be called a Nazarene.Isaiah 11:1Matthew 2:2319
Messiah would bring light to Galilee.Isaiah 9:1-2Matthew 4:13-1620
Messiah would speak in parables.Psalm 78:2-4
Isaiah 6:9-10Matthew 13:10-15, 34-3521
Messiah would be sent to heal the brokenhearted.Isaiah 61:1-2Luke 4:18-1922
Messiah would be a priest after the order ofMelchizedek.Psalm 110:4Hebrews 5:5-623
Messiah would be called King.Psalm 2:6
Zechariah 9:9Matthew 27:37
Mark 11:7-1124
Messiah would be praised by little children.Psalm 8:2Matthew 21:1625Messiah would be betrayed.Psalm 41:9
Zechariah 11:12-13Luke 22:47-48
Matthew 26:14-1626
Messiah's price money would be used to buy a potter's field.Zechariah 11:12-13Matthew 27:9-1027Messiah would be falsely accused.Psalm 35:11Mark 14:57-5828
Messiah would be silent before his accusers.Isaiah 53:7Mark 15:4-529
Messiah would be spat upon and struck.Isaiah 50:6Matthew 26:6730
Messiah would be hated without cause.Psalm 35:19
Psalm 69:4John 15:24-2531
Messiah would be crucified with criminals.Isaiah 53:12Matthew 27:38
Mark 15:27-2832
Messiah would be given vinegar to drink.Psalm 69:21Matthew 27:34
John 19:28-3033
Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced.Psalm 22:16
Zechariah 12:10John 20:25-2734Messiah would be mocked and ridiculed.Psalm 22:7-8Luke 23:3535
Soldiers would gamble for Messiah's garments.Psalm 22:18Luke 23:34
Matthew 27:35-3636
Messiah's bones would not be broken.Exodus 12:46
Psalm 34:20John 19:33-3637
Messiah would be forsaken by God.Psalm 22:1Matthew 27:4638
Messiah would pray for his enemies.Psalm 109:4Luke 23:3439
Soldiers would pierce Messiah's side.Zechariah 12:10John 19:3440
Messiah would be buried with the rich.Isaiah 53:9Matthew 27:57-6041
Messiah would resurrect from the dead.Psalm 16:10Psalm 49:15Matthew 28:2-7Acts 2:22-3242
Messiah would ascend to heaven.Psalm 24:7-10Mark 16:19
Luke 24:5143
Messiah would be seated at God's right hand.Psalm 68:18
Psalm 110:1Mark 16:19
Matthew 22:4444
Messiah would be a sacrifice for sin.Isaiah 53:5-12Romans 5:6-8

All these references and none to lev. 16. The whole nt is revealed in one chapter. Jesus most important act. Is his sacrifice as the Lamb.
There is more to the Day of atonement than either Christians or JEWS are really comfortable with.

 

[Roadrunner]

Could Christianity exist without Judaism? Could the Bible be the book of Christianity without the OT?

Since Judaism can exist without Christianity, and did until Christianity came along, why does Christianity (or Islam for that matter) need a previous religion to establish it's legitimacy? Isn't a derivitive religion just emphasizing it's illegitimacy by attaching itself to some previous religion?

Like I have said before, all Old Testaments or whatever you Jews call it, could be burned, and we would still have Jesus.

We are freed from the tyranny of the Old Testament.

 

[Roadrunner]

Christianity is not autonomous from Judaism so long as the Jewish Bible, the OT is in every version of the Christian Bible, nor is it when Christians quote and use the OT.

It is not in every version of the Christian Bible.

There are many New Testaments with the Old attached.

Those are the kind I buy for the jail, New Testaments.

 

[Roadrunner]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

Christians say it not because they made it up but because: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Now I am a bit open minded on this.

Don't be.

 

[Roadrunner]

Islam's even worse utilizing both Christianity and Judaism while saying if not Muslim you're an infidel and killable.

The Koran is the word of Satan as revealed to the pedophile Mohammed.