Can any republican tell me why any intelligent person should be republican?

Quite truthfully I am not sure what you expect the party that has not been in power for the last 7 years to do.

Yes, you can play with the unemployment numbers but I remember quite well that unemployment under the majority of Bush's terms was around 5 percent until disaster hit the country. That disaster was the democrat take over of congress. After that the democrats pretty much ignored anything Bush had to say, like "hey you need to look at Fannie Mae." No, they ignored him and went on their liberal ideological binge and we see where we are today.

The truth is Obama has gotten most if not all of his major initiatives, with or without GOP help. I can't think of one he has not. Yes, some of his nominations have been held up but for good reason. It would be a shame if the GOP rubber stamped every left wing communist that Obama put up for nomination.

I can only go by history and I see nothing in the past history of the DNC to be proud of. I certainly would not vote for the party of slavery no matter how long ago and no matter how they make the claim things have changed because they have bought the black vote.

The EPA, Clean Water Act, the end of segregation, end of poll taxes, the end of Jim Crow, the earned income tax credit, and support for every civil rights act since the civil war makes me want to be a Republican. Sure I don't like what all Republicans have to say but they don't speak for me or the Republican party.

Now, let us look at one issue with the democrats, immigration. Why in the hell would a country want to be flooded with uneducated low skilled people? What the democrats want makes what we did at Ellis Island a joke. The democrats are allowing the US to be flooded by low educated workers then wonder why middle income is dropping. Why there are no jobs for American kids that graduate HS without much of a skill set. It is idiotic what the democrats stand for and if that isn't enough to hate their lying butts I am not sure what is.

Bush had low unemployment numbers because the economic crash happened in his last few months. From there we lost 8 million jobs

Of course that is correct. Much like Obama's numbers look better because he started with unemployment rate so high. But try and be objective and realize a few things. In all recessions prior to the last the recovery matched the recession. In other words the bigger the recession the bigger and faster the recovery, but not the last one. Was there something Obama and Congress didn't get? If there is I can't think of what it was.

You have read the statistics on work participation rate and the drop. Why is that? Certainly you can't blame the party that hasn't been in power for 7 years. A party that has proposed jobs bills that have been killed in the Senate. No all we hear is that Republicans are blocking everything, when in fact Reid has stopped most bills.

Dude come on this recovery has been slow because we lost so many millions of jobs within a short period of time. Thanks in part to Obama's stimulus which currently supports 3 million private jobs we got back that 8 million.

Why has labor participation been so low? Well obviously because we lost millions of jobs. People cannot look for jobs that do not exist. They get discouraged and quit. What has also contributed to it is people retiring and more people going on disability. That stat has been declining years before Obama took office.
 
Bush had low unemployment numbers because the economic crash happened in his last few months. From there we lost 8 million jobs

Of course that is correct. Much like Obama's numbers look better because he started with unemployment rate so high. But try and be objective and realize a few things. In all recessions prior to the last the recovery matched the recession. In other words the bigger the recession the bigger and faster the recovery, but not the last one. Was there something Obama and Congress didn't get? If there is I can't think of what it was.

You have read the statistics on work participation rate and the drop. Why is that? Certainly you can't blame the party that hasn't been in power for 7 years. A party that has proposed jobs bills that have been killed in the Senate. No all we hear is that Republicans are blocking everything, when in fact Reid has stopped most bills.

Dude come on this recovery has been slow because we lost so many millions of jobs within a short period of time. Thanks in part to Obama's stimulus which currently supports 3 million private jobs we got back that 8 million.

Why has labor participation been so low? Well obviously because we lost millions of jobs. People cannot look for jobs that do not exist. They get discouraged and quit. What has also contributed to it is people retiring and more people going on disability. That stat has been declining years before Obama took office.

No, idiot. The deeper the recession, the faster the growth. That's been the case every time. Except this one. This has been pointed out over and over. And you still dont get it. Because you're dumb.
 
A FLAT OUT LIE.

What they're doing, because they're lying cocksuckers, is taking the LOW POINT in the Lying ********** in Chief's employment numbers....... Mid-2010 to present

dimocraps are lying mother fuckers.

Even the Washington Post is calling out the Lying ********** in Chief.

And this isn't new-news. Everybody knows it.

The poster is a lying ****

Fact Checking the 2014 State of the Union address

“A manufacturing sector that’s adding jobs for the first time since the 1990s.”

The low point for manufacturing jobs was reached in January 2010, and there has been a gain of 570,000 jobs since then. But BLS data show that the number of manufacturing jobs is still 500,000 fewer than when Obama took office

“The more than eight million new jobs our businesses have created over the past four years.”

The president is cherry-picking a number that puts the improvement in the economy in the best possible light. The low point in jobs was reached in February 2010, and there has indeed been a gain of about 8 million jobs since then, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. (Obama, saying “businesses,” appears to be referring to private sector growth of 8.2 million; adding government jobs reduces the total to 7.6 million.) But the data also show that since the start of his presidency, about 3.2 million jobs have been created — and the number of jobs in the economy still is about 1.2 million lower than when the recession began in December 2007.

dimocraps are lying scum

All that swearing only shows how stupid you "r".

As I have posted many times, millions of jobs were moved to China during Bush's 8 years and tens of thousands of factories close. How is that creating jobs? Clearly it's not. And if you spent five minutes on some site other than the Heritage Foundation or Fox, you would know the truth. You can't lose that many factories and move that many jobs overseas and have positive job growth. It's simply not possible.

You are a lying *****.

Period.

A worthless, lying *****.

NONE of your posts can be taken seriously because --

You are a lying ****

Swearing? You have no idea.

I was holding back

For American manufacturers, the bad years didn't begin with the banking crisis of 2008. Indeed, the U.S. manufacturing sector never emerged from the 2001 recession, which coincided with China's entry into the World Trade Organization. Since 2001, the country has lost 42,400 factories, including 36 percent of factories that employ more than 1,000 workers (which declined from 1,479 to 947), and 38 percent of factories that employ between 500 and 999 employees (from 3,198 to 1,972). An additional 90,000 manufacturing companies are now at risk of going out of business.

Long before the banking collapse of 2008, such important U.S. industries as machine tools, consumer electronics, auto parts, appliances, furniture, telecommunications equipment, and many others that had once dominated the global marketplace suffered their own economic collapse. Manufacturing employment dropped to 11.7 million in October 2009, a loss of 5.5 million or 32 percent of all manufacturing jobs since October 2000. The last time fewer than 12 million people worked in the manufacturing sector was in 1941. In October 2009, more people were officially unemployed (15.7 million) than were working in manufacturing.

The Plight of American Manufacturing

Growing U.S. trade deficit with China cost 2.8 million jobs between 2001 and 2010

Your turn, "Tard".
 
You're an idiot dude. Nothing would make me want to be a republican. How do you not get that?

So you admit the question posed in the thread is intellectually dishonest.

Well, at least you went that far.

.

how is it intellectually dishonest to ask the question posed in the o/p?

you have very weird values.
 
You're an idiot dude. Nothing would make me want to be a republican. How do you not get that?

So you admit the question posed in the thread is intellectually dishonest.

Well, at least you went that far.

.

how is it intellectually dishonest to ask the question posed in the o/p?

you have very weird values.


So you've read the OP, and you read that post.

And you don't see an incongruity.

Okie dokie!

.
 
I don't mean conservative. I mean republican specifically. Why should anyone vote republicans in our government?

What good have republicans of today done for this country? What are their accomplishments?

I want real answers. Don't say crap like "because they are better than democrats". That's a lame answer as always. I don't care what you think of democrats or liberals in general. Let's just pretend for a moment liberals don't exist.

Here are some specific questions:

1) What have republicans of today done for the middle class?

2) If tax cuts are so effective as you claim, why is it that 2x as many private jobs have been created in Obama's 5 years than in Bush's 8?

3) Corporate profits are at an all time high. Why are tax cuts for the investment class and deregulation necessary? What other republican policies are there that create jobs?

4) How is it the Republican Party not "the party of no"?

Sure about your facts?
There were more people working in February 2008 than in Feb 2014.

Graph: Total nonfarm payroll employment (seasonally adjusted)
 
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I don't mean conservative. I mean republican specifically. Why should anyone vote republicans in our government?

What good have republicans of today done for this country? What are their accomplishments?

I want real answers. Don't say crap like "because they are better than democrats". That's a lame answer as always. I don't care what you think of democrats or liberals in general. Let's just pretend for a moment liberals don't exist.

Here are some specific questions:

1) What have republicans of today done for the middle class?

2) If tax cuts are so effective as you claim, why is it that 2x as many private jobs have been created in Obama's 5 years than in Bush's 8?

3) Corporate profits are at an all time high. Why are tax cuts for the investment class and deregulation necessary? What other republican policies are there that create jobs?

4) How is it the Republican Party not "the party of no"?

FACT please check it out and then refute...
From this source: http://www.citizen.org/documents/Historical_employment_data.pdf
http://data.bls.gov/search/query/re...+on+nonfarm+payrolls+by+major+industry+sector
If you have ANY guts go check it out!!!
At the end of 2008...... 136,790,000 full time Employees on nonfarm payrolls
At the end of 2013.......136,368,000 full time Employees on nonfarm payrolls
Now my math says there ARE 422,000 LESS full time employees in 2013... In FIVE YEARS Obama has directly cost nearly a 1/2 million jobs!
So where in the hell are you getting the RIGHT to say this:2x as many private jobs have been created in Obama's 5 years than in Bush's 8?
At the end of 2000..... 130,672,000 full time employees...
At the end of 2008......136,790,000 full time employees a GAIN of 5,696,000 full time not 32 hour JOBS!
ALL against the backdrop of
The stock market crash of 2000–2002 caused the loss of $5 trillion in the market value of companies from March 2000 to October 2002.[18] The 9/11 terrorist destruction of the World Trade Center's Twin Towers, killing almost 700 employees of Cantor-Fitzgerald, accelerated the stock market drop
BUT OF course IDIOTS like you have forgotten 9/11/dot.com bust/WORST HURRICANE SEASONS not just Katrina..SEASONS in history!
YOU forget all that and IN SPITE of it 5 ,696,000 NEW full time 40 hr jobs!
 
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Emancipation Proclamation...End of the Civil War....Women's right to vote....Republican Jessie Owens wins four gold medals in the Olympics.....Republican Jackie Robinson becomes the first black American to play in the Major Leagues....Reagan tax cuts.....Collapse of the Soviet Union....Desegregating schools.....

Need I go on?
 
Bush had low unemployment numbers because the economic crash happened in his last few months. From there we lost 8 million jobs

Of course that is correct. Much like Obama's numbers look better because he started with unemployment rate so high. But try and be objective and realize a few things. In all recessions prior to the last the recovery matched the recession. In other words the bigger the recession the bigger and faster the recovery, but not the last one. Was there something Obama and Congress didn't get? If there is I can't think of what it was.

You have read the statistics on work participation rate and the drop. Why is that? Certainly you can't blame the party that hasn't been in power for 7 years. A party that has proposed jobs bills that have been killed in the Senate. No all we hear is that Republicans are blocking everything, when in fact Reid has stopped most bills.

Dude come on this recovery has been slow because we lost so many millions of jobs within a short period of time. Thanks in part to Obama's stimulus which currently supports 3 million private jobs we got back that 8 million.

Why has labor participation been so low? Well obviously because we lost millions of jobs. People cannot look for jobs that do not exist. They get discouraged and quit. What has also contributed to it is people retiring and more people going on disability. That stat has been declining years before Obama took office.


So you admit Obama has been a failure.
 
I don't mean conservative. I mean republican specifically. Why should anyone vote republicans in our government?

What good have republicans of today done for this country? What are their accomplishments?

I want real answers. Don't say crap like "because they are better than democrats". That's a lame answer as always. I don't care what you think of democrats or liberals in general. Let's just pretend for a moment liberals don't exist.

Here are some specific questions:

1) What have republicans of today done for the middle class?

2) If tax cuts are so effective as you claim, why is it that 2x as many private jobs have been created in Obama's 5 years than in Bush's 8?

3) Corporate profits are at an all time high. Why are tax cuts for the investment class and deregulation necessary? What other republican policies are there that create jobs?

4) How is it the Republican Party not "the party of no"?
I am not a Republican, but there is a single valid reason for voting Republican.

They slow or interfere with the progressives agenda.

That alone is sufficient reason.
 
I don't mean conservative. I mean republican specifically. Why should anyone vote republicans in our government?

What good have republicans of today done for this country? What are their accomplishments?

I want real answers. Don't say crap like "because they are better than democrats". That's a lame answer as always. I don't care what you think of democrats or liberals in general. Let's just pretend for a moment liberals don't exist.

Here are some specific questions:

1) What have republicans of today done for the middle class?

2) If tax cuts are so effective as you claim, why is it that 2x as many private jobs have been created in Obama's 5 years than in Bush's 8?

3) Corporate profits are at an all time high. Why are tax cuts for the investment class and deregulation necessary? What other republican policies are there that create jobs?

4) How is it the Republican Party not "the party of no"?

FACT please check it out and then refute...
From this source: http://www.citizen.org/documents/Historical_employment_data.pdf
BLS Search Results
If you have ANY guts go check it out!!!
At the end of 2008...... 136,790,000 full time Employees on nonfarm payrolls
At the end of 2013.......136,368,000 full time Employees on nonfarm payrolls
Now my math says there ARE 422,000 LESS full time employees in 2013... In FIVE YEARS Obama has directly cost nearly a 1/2 million jobs!
So where in the hell are you getting the RIGHT to say this:2x as many private jobs have been created in Obama's 5 years than in Bush's 8?
At the end of 2000..... 130,672,000 full time employees...
At the end of 2008......136,790,000 full time employees a GAIN of 5,696,000 full time not 32 hour JOBS!
ALL against the backdrop of
The stock market crash of 2000–2002 caused the loss of $5 trillion in the market value of companies from March 2000 to October 2002.[18] The 9/11 terrorist destruction of the World Trade Center's Twin Towers, killing almost 700 employees of Cantor-Fitzgerald, accelerated the stock market drop
BUT OF course IDIOTS like you have forgotten 9/11/dot.com bust/WORST HURRICANE SEASONS not just Katrina..SEASONS in history!
YOU forget all that and IN SPITE of it 5 ,696,000 NEW full time 40 hr jobs!

/thread
 
I don't mean conservative. I mean republican specifically. Why should anyone vote republicans in our government?

What good have republicans of today done for this country? What are their accomplishments?

I want real answers. Don't say crap like "because they are better than democrats". That's a lame answer as always. I don't care what you think of democrats or liberals in general. Let's just pretend for a moment liberals don't exist.

Here are some specific questions:

1) What have republicans of today done for the middle class?

2) If tax cuts are so effective as you claim, why is it that 2x as many private jobs have been created in Obama's 5 years than in Bush's 8?

3) Corporate profits are at an all time high. Why are tax cuts for the investment class and deregulation necessary? What other republican policies are there that create jobs?

4) How is it the Republican Party not "the party of no"?

Let's take them one by one.
#1. The "middle class " depends on cheap energy more than any other demographic. Republicans have been trying to cut the price of energy but have been stymied by democrat party obstruction for two decades and wild claims about freaking windmills while the middle class have to pay more for food, gas and heating their homes in the winter. The "Keystone Pipeline was suspended by the Hussein administration.
#2. If "Tax cuts" didn't work why the hell would the Hussein administration extend them?
#3. The radical left is incoherent and all over the place about their hatred for "corporate wealth" while they celebrate every time the DOW spikes during the Hussein administration. Don't they understand that corporations -r-us and the DOW indicates corporate wealth?
#4. The party of "no"? It's the Constitutional mandated duty of congress to engage in checks and balances of the power of the administration. The real party of "no" to the point of treason was the democrat party that authorized Bush to use combat Troops to enforce UN sanctions in Iraq and then undermined the mission for eight years.
 
1) What have republicans of today done for the middle class?
When you control only 1/3 of Government there's not much you can do. And the Senate won't even consider any legislation that is passed that helps the middle class simply because Harry Reid is an idiot.

2) If tax cuts are so effective as you claim, why is it that 2x as many private jobs have been created in Obama's 5 years than in Bush's 8?
This one is my favorite!
Gee, maybe the Bush administration didn't "create" as many jobs is because people were already working!

3) Corporate profits are at an all time high. Why are tax cuts for the investment class and deregulation necessary? What other republican policies are there that create jobs?
Some corporate profits are fantastic, yes. But not as many as you would have everybody believe. Out of the top 10 biggest money makers, 3 are showing lower profits than last year. The biggest profit jump was Apple at a 23% increase, because everybody under 30 has to have the latest, greatest, biggest, most advanced, fastest phone that's really nothing more than a glorified toy.

Wal-Mart has sunk to number 10, because sales to middle class people are down, because the actual unemployment levels are still over 11%.

Every year since 2009 there have been more businesses going bankrupt than have been created.

Republicans want tax cuts for everybody, not just the "rich". And I know the left hates hearing this, but each and every time taxes are cut, the amount of money that comes into the Treasury increases! You see, we need more taxpayers, not more taxes. Look around. States that are cutting taxes are indeed creating jobs, thus more taxpayers.

4) How is it the Republican Party not "the party of no"?
That's something I'm very proud of. The Republicans cannot say "NO!!" enough times to King Barack, especially when he decides on his own what laws he will and will not change.
There are three branches of government. The GOP does not control any one of them.

They have 1/2 of a third.
 
I don't mean conservative. I mean republican specifically. Why should anyone vote republicans in our government?

What good have republicans of today done for this country? What are their accomplishments?

I want real answers. Don't say crap like "because they are better than democrats". That's a lame answer as always. I don't care what you think of democrats or liberals in general. Let's just pretend for a moment liberals don't exist.

Here are some specific questions:

1) What have republicans of today done for the middle class?

2) If tax cuts are so effective as you claim, why is it that 2x as many private jobs have been created in Obama's 5 years than in Bush's 8?

3) Corporate profits are at an all time high. Why are tax cuts for the investment class and deregulation necessary? What other republican policies are there that create jobs?

4) How is it the Republican Party not "the party of no"?

FACT please check it out and then refute...
From this source: http://www.citizen.org/documents/Historical_employment_data.pdf
BLS Search Results
If you have ANY guts go check it out!!!
At the end of 2008...... 136,790,000 full time Employees on nonfarm payrolls
At the end of 2013.......136,368,000 full time Employees on nonfarm payrolls
Now my math says there ARE 422,000 LESS full time employees in 2013... In FIVE YEARS Obama has directly cost nearly a 1/2 million jobs!
So where in the hell are you getting the RIGHT to say this:2x as many private jobs have been created in Obama's 5 years than in Bush's 8?
At the end of 2000..... 130,672,000 full time employees...
At the end of 2008......136,790,000 full time employees a GAIN of 5,696,000 full time not 32 hour JOBS!
ALL against the backdrop of
The stock market crash of 2000–2002 caused the loss of $5 trillion in the market value of companies from March 2000 to October 2002.[18] The 9/11 terrorist destruction of the World Trade Center's Twin Towers, killing almost 700 employees of Cantor-Fitzgerald, accelerated the stock market drop
BUT OF course IDIOTS like you have forgotten 9/11/dot.com bust/WORST HURRICANE SEASONS not just Katrina..SEASONS in history!
YOU forget all that and IN SPITE of it 5 ,696,000 NEW full time 40 hr jobs!

Dude I have already explained this crap to you before. Comparing the number of people employed in one year to another year is not how you measure NET JOB CREATION. We lost 8 million jobs from the recession. That must be taken into account. It astounds me how ignorant you people are when it comes to economics

Here are the facts. All are non partisan sources confirming the same thing:

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/04/17/job-creation-obama-bush-factcheck/

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/04/obamas-numbers-quarterly-update/

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ri...-is-creating-more-new-jobs-than-george-w-bush

http://www.minyanville.com/business...s-Created-Under-Obama-Than/4/17/2013/id/49323
 
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To better understand the scum with which we are forced to deal with today, it is important to understand where it began....

Here is an article on the 'Frankfurt School'

Should be mandatory reading for all patriotic Americans.... dimocrap scum need not bother

Ed Driscoll » ?Microclimates of Totalitarianism?

The Men of the Frankfurt School and the Torture of Paradise

Here's how to describe these sad joyless socialists.

The Frankfurt School of philosophers emigrated from Nazi Germany and became dyspeptic critics of American culture. Several landed in Southern California where they were disturbed by the consumer culture and the gospel of relentless cheeriness. Depressive by nature, they focused on the disappointments and venality that surrounded them and how unnecessary it all was. It could be paradise, Theodor Adorno complained, but it was only California.

...We always feel that our incredible traditions of freedom and liberty will convert those who show up on our shores, that they will appreciate the way of life we have created-isn't that why they wanted to come here in the first place? We can't imagine anyone coming here, experiencing the true wonder that is living in this country, and wanting to destroy that. But that's exactly what the Frankfurt School wanted to do.

These were not happy people looking for a new lease on life. When they moved to California, they simply couldn't deal with the change of scenery-there was cognitive dissonance. Horkheimer and Adorno and depressive allies like Bertolt Brecht moved into a house in Santa Monica on Twenty-sixth Street, coincidentally, the epicenter of my childhood. They had moved to heaven on earth from Nazi Germany and apparently could not handle the fun, the sun, and the roaring good times. Ingratitude is not strong enough a word to describe these hideous malcontents.

...Adorno was wrong. It was paradise. To the rest of the world, America's vision was a vision of paradise. And these Marxists were here to try to destroy the best lifestyle man had ever created. If I could go back in a time machine, I would go back to kick these malcontents in their shins

Sound familiar?

It should

Woo. The similarity to the whiney, snively mindset of this board's socialist killjoys is uncanny.
 
15th post
I don't mean conservative. I mean republican specifically. Why should anyone vote republicans in our government?

What good have republicans of today done for this country? What are their accomplishments?

I want real answers. Don't say crap like "because they are better than democrats". That's a lame answer as always. I don't care what you think of democrats or liberals in general. Let's just pretend for a moment liberals don't exist.

Here are some specific questions:

1) What have republicans of today done for the middle class?

2) If tax cuts are so effective as you claim, why is it that 2x as many private jobs have been created in Obama's 5 years than in Bush's 8?

3) Corporate profits are at an all time high. Why are tax cuts for the investment class and deregulation necessary? What other republican policies are there that create jobs?

4) How is it the Republican Party not "the party of no"?

To slow down idiots like you in your work to suppress the Law of Liberty that this country was built on.
 
'Yes, you can play with the unemployment numbers but I remember quite well that unemployment under the majority of Bush's terms was around 5 percent until disaster hit the country. That disaster was the democrat take over of congress. After that the democrats pretty much ignored anything Bush had to say, like "hey you need to look at Fannie Mae." No, they ignored him and went on their liberal ideological binge and we see where we are today.'

Yup, nice corrupt real estate bubble that went bust and caused the SECOND Pub world depression. F+F had 75-80% of that market until pub crony regulators allowed junk assets to be rated A+ and insured, bundled and sold around the world. F+F's percentage went down to 25 %. Your version is brainwashed idiocy.

Dems had control of congress for 6 months 7/7/2009-2/4/2010 PERIOD. Bush vetoes and Pub filibusters have blocked all Dem policies except ACA, some of the financial reforms, and the stimulus, which were obvious necessities except to total Pub dupes...
 
Twist the numbers anyway you like, there are less jobs today than 2008.....

Simple facts, the left hates them........
 
For American manufacturers, the bad years didn't begin with the banking crisis of 2008. Indeed, the U.S. manufacturing sector never emerged from the 2001 recession, which coincided with China's entry into the World Trade Organization. Since 2001, the country has lost 42,400 factories, including 36 percent of factories that employ more than 1,000 workers (which declined from 1,479 to 947), and 38 percent of factories that employ between 500 and 999 employees (from 3,198 to 1,972). An additional 90,000 manufacturing companies are now at risk of going out of business.

Long before the banking collapse of 2008, such important U.S. industries as machine tools, consumer electronics, auto parts, appliances, furniture, telecommunications equipment, and many others that had once dominated the global marketplace suffered their own economic collapse. Manufacturing employment dropped to 11.7 million in October 2009, a loss of 5.5 million or 32 percent of all manufacturing jobs since October 2000. The last time fewer than 12 million people worked in the manufacturing sector was in 1941. In October 2009, more people were officially unemployed (15.7 million) than were working in manufacturing.

The Plight of American Manufacturing

Growing U.S. trade deficit with China cost 2.8 million jobs between 2001 and 2010
.

What a wonderful opportunity!
With the dearth of American factories and the huge pool of unskilled labor NOW is the time for you and a bunch of your loony leftist buds to pool your resources and create something instead of whining. You could call it "Workers Paradise," have plenty of employee input, pay them twice the market rate and unionize management.
How 'bout you put YOUR money where your mouth is for a change.
 
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