Calling Out Alang1216: The God of Abraham is a myth

I was expecting better.
How about now? Because I haven’t even scratched the surface.

You are so certain that Jesus can’t be God that you never even bothered to test it. So you never even looked. You just assumed you couldn’t be wrong and when challenged you could easily defend your beliefs. Even worse, you ignored the fact that Jesus has been worshipped as God for 2,000 years and assumed there has never been any good reason for doing so.

It’s your arrogance that has put you in this trap. So I’m wondering how much longer you are going to let me keep making you look dumb. I’m secretly hoping that you double down on stupid because I can do this all day. Like I said, I haven’t even scratched the surface.
 
By Joseph Shulam-

INTRODUCTION:​



I would have difficulty believing in the truthfulness of the story of Yeshua (Jesus) if He were not mentioned anywhere in Jewish literature. What if a fantastic story like the story of Yeshua (from his birth to his resurrection from the dead to his ascension to heaven) were not mentioned anywhere else except in the texts of what is commonly called ā€œThe New Testamentā€? A person like Yeshua was a stone of contention, an Archimedes point, a pivotal point of human history, and a controversial personality. He was King of the Jews, as it was written on a plaque on top of the cross of His crucifixion.

We are fortunate that we have a vast store of literature from the Pharisees of Yeshua’s day. They collected and preserved the discussions and controversies of the time. Most Christians are not educated in the literature of the Pharisees. This literature is divided into three different forms. The first is the Mishnah, a collection of Rabbinical sources and quotations from Rabbis who lived in the 2nd century BC until the middle of the 2nd century CE. The second is the Jerusalem Talmud, a collection of similar discussions from the 5th century CE. The third is the Babylonian Talmud, which was finished in the 6th century CE and dealt with material similar to that of the Jerusalem Talmud.

We are fortunate that Josephus Flavius, the Jewish historian of the first century, mentions Yeshua in his books. We are also fortunate that we have the Midrashic literature, a collection of various homiletic material and quasi-commentaries of the Torah. These commentaries include those of Rabbis from before the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, through to medieval Rabbinical commentators. Understand that most of the material that was written in this Rabbinical literature was written against Yeshua and His disciples. However, what was written against is also a witness to what was real and important for the Jews in the diaspora, who were opponents of Yeshua and his disciples. Often, these Rabbis referred to Yeshua in order to oppose Him, but by opposing Him, they affirmed Him. What was intended to negate Yeshua turns out to affirm the positive. The Jewish rabbinical opponents of Jesus and his disciples did not write about Him for several centuries after His death, burial, and resurrection. But, when they began to discuss Yeshua, Rabbis attributed stories to Him that affirm the historical Yeshua. The story's origins date back to the 2nd century B.C. The records of this material written against Yeshua by the Pharisaic Rabbis are preserved in the rabbinical materials in the Mishnah, Midrashic Literature, and in both the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud.

In this article, I will attempt to capture the most interesting stories about Jesus in Rabbinical literature and try to make lemonade from the rotten lemons grown in rabbinical gardens in the dark valleys of religious prejudice, hate, and ignorance. What was meant for evil will turn out to be for good!

"The Jewish rabbinical opponents of Jesus and his disciples did not write about Him for several centuries after His death, burial, and resurrection." It sounds like they were rebutting what Christians were saying about the OT. It is safe to say that the messiah the Jews expected was not Jesus. Christians had to invent a whole alternative messiah story to fit the life and death of Jesus.
 
How about now? Because I haven’t even scratched the surface.
Bring it on, hopefully with some better material.

You are so certain that Jesus can’t be God that you never even bothered to test it. So you never even looked.
How does one test it?

You just assumed you couldn’t be wrong and when challenged you could easily defend your beliefs. Even worse, you ignored the fact that Jesus has been worshipped as God for 2,000 years and assumed there has never been any good reason for doing so.
Except that worship has changed dramatically over that 2,000 year period.

It’s your arrogance that has put you in this trap. So I’m wondering how much longer you are going to let me keep making you look dumb. I’m secretly hoping that you double down on stupid because I can do this all day. Like I said, I haven’t even scratched the surface.
Consider the 'down' to be doubled since the depth of your arguments is pretty shallow so far.
 
All this 'evidence' is essentially what we’re saying about Jesus and themselves. I have no doubt Jesus lived and had followers that considered him as the Jewish messiah.
They were not teaching he was the Messiah.
 
"The Jewish rabbinical opponents of Jesus and his disciples did not write about Him for several centuries after His death, burial, and resurrection." It sounds like they were rebutting what Christians were saying about the OT. It is safe to say that the messiah the Jews expected was not Jesus. Christians had to invent a whole alternative messiah story to fit the life and death of Jesus.
Maybe read the whole thing, because that certainly wasn’t what he was arguing.
 
Bring it on, hopefully with some better material.
I’ve more than made my point.
How does one test it?
By arguing each side in earnest like I have done.
Except that worship has changed dramatically over that 2,000 year period.
Except it hasn’t. They began worshipping Jesus as God after he rose from the dead. That hasn’t changed.
Consider the 'down' to be doubled since the depth of your arguments is pretty shallow so far.
I wouldn’t expect you to see it any other way.
 
You believe it’s a lie. For that to be true it could only have been a conspiracy of epic proportions.
I love when you tell me what I believe, especially when you're wrong. I believe it is not true like we believe the myths of Zeus are not true. Were they a conspiracy of epic proportions?
 
I love when you tell me what I believe, especially when you're wrong. I believe it is not true like we believe the myths of Zeus are not true. Were they a conspiracy of epic proportions?
You don’t want to believe it because you know you can’t prove it but make no mistake what you are arguing for is an epic conspiracy theory.
 
Maybe you need to read the NT. How many prophesies of the messiah did they contort to show they pointed to Jesus.
Read post resurrection passages. That is when they realized who Jesus is. That is when they began worshipping Jesus as God.
 
They began worshipping Jesus as God after he rose from the dead. That hasn’t changed.
On that point we disagree but are there any other Christian theologies that haven't changed since the Apostles?
 
15th post
On that point we disagree but are there any other Christian theologies that haven't changed since the Apostles?
The Christianity which exists today traces its roots back to the disciples and apostles that began worshipping Jesus as God immediately after Jesus rose from the dead and evangelicalized that Jesus is God.

For the purpose of this discussion the only thing that matters is the divinity of Christ. If you can’t understand how that pertains to this debate, let me know and I’ll explain it to you.
 
The Christianity which exists today traces its roots back to the disciples and apostles that began worshipping Jesus as God immediately after Jesus rose from the dead and evangelicalized that Jesus is God.
Being a messiah doesn't make one a god. Does Mark call him God?

For the purpose of this discussion the only thing that matters is the divinity of Christ. If you can’t understand how that pertains to this debate, let me know and I’ll explain it to you.
Please explain. The God of Abraham goes back way before Jesus. Couldn't we be having this debate, "The God of Abraham is a myth" 2500 years ago?
 
And Zeus?
No one cares about Zeus. This debate in on the God of Abraham. The God you have made a personal mission to subvert. We are here to discuss whether or not the God of Abraham is a myth. Jesus Christ is my proof that the God of Abraham is real.

There are thousands of verses that literally portray Jesus as God. It’s literally the basis of Christians believing Jesus is God. For your belief to be true that can only mean it was a trick to control people. There’s no evidence for that. In fact, it’s the exact opposite. Everything about their behaviors after Jesus rose from the dead supports that they believed Jesus is God.
 
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