"California will be BEGGING for only 39% rate increases..."

JenyEliza

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Gee....I thought the reform package was supossed to make insurance cheap, affordable and avialable to ALL....that's what the Democrat Jackals have been saying for years.

Yeah, right. :eusa_doh:

HMOs may hike premiums, slash jobs under reform | Reuters


The U.S. House of Representatives approved the reform legislation late on Sunday, climaxing a year of uncertainty over the overhaul that cast a long shadow over the health insurance industry's future.

The overhaul faces expected approval in the Senate later this week while a legal threat looms from at least 11 states.

Should the changes become law, they create myriad pressures -- some almost immediately -- on the industry's ability to maintain its profitability.

While many of the provisions and fees based on market share do not kick in until 2014, some analysts expect insurers will act soon to shore up margins.

"All of this is going to cause the cost of healthcare insurance premiums to skyrocket massively," Collins Stewart analyst Brian Wright said.

"These companies can't run at a loss, so while you can eat some margin at the end of the day you have to massively raise prices. Massively," Wright said. "California will be begging for only 39 percent rate increases."

Democrats in recent weeks had seized on the insurers' rate hikes to generate momentum for health reform, including holding a Congressional hearing on WellPoint's (WLP.N) increases of as high as 39 percent.

The Morgan Stanley Healthcare Payor index .HMO of insurers rose 1.3 percent on Monday, although large insurers WellPoint and UnitedHealth Group (UNH.N) traded lower.
 

Oldandtired

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Gee....I thought the reform package was supossed to make insurance cheap, affordable and avialable to ALL....that's what the Democrat Jackals have been saying for years.

Yeah, right. :eusa_doh:

HMOs may hike premiums, slash jobs under reform | Reuters


The U.S. House of Representatives approved the reform legislation late on Sunday, climaxing a year of uncertainty over the overhaul that cast a long shadow over the health insurance industry's future.

The overhaul faces expected approval in the Senate later this week while a legal threat looms from at least 11 states.

Should the changes become law, they create myriad pressures -- some almost immediately -- on the industry's ability to maintain its profitability.

While many of the provisions and fees based on market share do not kick in until 2014, some analysts expect insurers will act soon to shore up margins.

"All of this is going to cause the cost of healthcare insurance premiums to skyrocket massively," Collins Stewart analyst Brian Wright said.

"These companies can't run at a loss, so while you can eat some margin at the end of the day you have to massively raise prices. Massively," Wright said. "California will be begging for only 39 percent rate increases."

Democrats in recent weeks had seized on the insurers' rate hikes to generate momentum for health reform, including holding a Congressional hearing on WellPoint's (WLP.N) increases of as high as 39 percent.

The Morgan Stanley Healthcare Payor index .HMO of insurers rose 1.3 percent on Monday, although large insurers WellPoint and UnitedHealth Group (UNH.N) traded lower.
Risk Management. A basic premise applied to the insurance industry.

Eliminate pre-existing clauses, the risk to pay out higher amounts will increase.

Therefore premiums will increase.

Basic business logic....and Obama counted on the people being too naive to know this.
 
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JenyEliza

JenyEliza

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Gee....I thought the reform package was supossed to make insurance cheap, affordable and avialable to ALL....that's what the Democrat Jackals have been saying for years.

Yeah, right. :eusa_doh:

HMOs may hike premiums, slash jobs under reform | Reuters


The U.S. House of Representatives approved the reform legislation late on Sunday, climaxing a year of uncertainty over the overhaul that cast a long shadow over the health insurance industry's future.

The overhaul faces expected approval in the Senate later this week while a legal threat looms from at least 11 states.

Should the changes become law, they create myriad pressures -- some almost immediately -- on the industry's ability to maintain its profitability.

While many of the provisions and fees based on market share do not kick in until 2014, some analysts expect insurers will act soon to shore up margins.

"All of this is going to cause the cost of healthcare insurance premiums to skyrocket massively," Collins Stewart analyst Brian Wright said.

"These companies can't run at a loss, so while you can eat some margin at the end of the day you have to massively raise prices. Massively," Wright said. "California will be begging for only 39 percent rate increases."

Democrats in recent weeks had seized on the insurers' rate hikes to generate momentum for health reform, including holding a Congressional hearing on WellPoint's (WLP.N) increases of as high as 39 percent.

The Morgan Stanley Healthcare Payor index .HMO of insurers rose 1.3 percent on Monday, although large insurers WellPoint and UnitedHealth Group (UNH.N) traded lower.
Risk Management. A basic premise applied to the insurance industry.

Eliminate pre-existing clauses, the risk to pay out higher amounts will increase.

Therefore premiums will increase.

Basic business logic....and Obama counted on the people being too naive to know this.
Obama and his DimBulb followers (who would jump off tall buildings if he told them it would be good for them) counted on it....

NOW....we're all going to have to deal in REALITY, not Obammy's fairy tales.

It's gonna be EXPENSIVE. There IS NO free lunch.
 

beowolfe

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This is why I'm all for a public option. No need for profits.
 
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JenyEliza

JenyEliza

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What part of THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH don't you understand, beowolfe?

Dayam....for a second there, I thought you actually understood the issues before us.

Nevermind. :eusa_doh:
 

Oldandtired

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What part of THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH don't you understand, beowolfe?

Dayam....for a second there, I thought you actually understood the issues before us.

Nevermind. :eusa_doh:
BW is correct.

If we are to eliminate pre-existing condition clauses, a PO is the only answer...and yes...at the cost of the taxpayer...

But private insurance can not survive without pre-existing condition clauses without premiums skyrocketing.

This bill was a sham...it will fail as premiums will become way too expensive...and the insurance companies will be blamed (although not really their fault)...and we will have no choice but a PO...and then ultimately it will be a single payer plan.

For good or bad, that will be the result.
 

SwingVoter

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This is why I'm all for a public option. No need for profits.
except doctors in countries with government health systems all want to move here

best approach for all is to cut costs, which is impossible to do in any significant way without restricting access, i.e. rationing, but no Dem or GOP will allow this, so the politics of self-entitlement will continue to dominate, and premiums will now go through the roof, as they did in Mass. after Romneycare
 
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rdean

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This is why I'm all for a public option. No need for profits.
except doctors in countries with government health systems all want to move here

best approach for all is to cut costs, which is impossible to do in any significant way without restricting access, i.e. rationing, but no Dem or GOP will allow this, so the politics of self-entitlement will continue to dominate, and premiums will now go through the roof, as they did in Mass. after Romneycare
Only if they are from third world countries. You don't see doctors moving here from France or Germany or England. Only from India or Pakistan or China.

Number one cause of bankruptcies is medical bills. People using emergency rooms as their primary source of health care were bankrupting the system.

When did the Republican party become the party of, "Piss on 'em, let them die quickly"?
 

Titanic Sailor

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There were so many lies from both sides, and the complete lie of this bill is astounding. Listening to a caller last night, catastrophic insurance not available in many states, and the options you have between insurance companies are exactly the same. Small business owners are now finding out the coverage they had last year are no longer available for their employees. The corruption of all of this is massive. It is absolutely stunning. If Bush signed this, Beowolfe wouldn't be here, so put that where it belongs.
 

Oldandtired

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This is why I'm all for a public option. No need for profits.
except doctors in countries with government health systems all want to move here

best approach for all is to cut costs, which is impossible to do in any significant way without restricting access, i.e. rationing, but no Dem or GOP will allow this, so the politics of self-entitlement will continue to dominate, and premiums will now go through the roof, as they did in Mass. after Romneycare
Only if they are from third world countries. You don't see doctors moving here from France or Germany or England. Only from India or Pakistan or China.

Number one cause of bankruptcies is medical bills. People using emergency rooms as their primary source of health care were bankrupting the system.

When did the Republican party become the party of, "Piss on 'em, let them die quickly"?
Line in bold.

You left out the asterisk...and it is an important one.

The reason the number one reason for bankruptcies is medical bills is because people did not include POSSIBLE MEDICAL BILLS in the formula when they determined household budgets. They assumed they will stay healthy and opted NOT to buy insurance....or bought insurance with very high deductables....and then neglected to include the cost of the deductable, or the cost of getting ill with no insurance in their annual budgets.

So wherweas your statement was correct, you can also say those same people went bankrupt becuase they opted to gamble that they would stay healthy.

You will find it best rdean, to look at the overall picture before making a judgement call.

It allows for better decision making.
 
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Oscar Wao

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except doctors in countries with government health systems all want to move here

best approach for all is to cut costs, which is impossible to do in any significant way without restricting access, i.e. rationing, but no Dem or GOP will allow this, so the politics of self-entitlement will continue to dominate, and premiums will now go through the roof, as they did in Mass. after Romneycare
Only if they are from third world countries. You don't see doctors moving here from France or Germany or England. Only from India or Pakistan or China.

Number one cause of bankruptcies is medical bills. People using emergency rooms as their primary source of health care were bankrupting the system.

When did the Republican party become the party of, "Piss on 'em, let them die quickly"?
Line in bold.

You left out the asterisk...and it is an important one.

The reason the number one reason for bankruptcies is medical bills is because people did not include POSSIBLE MEDICAL BILLS in the formula when they determined household budgets. They assumed they will stay healthy and opted NOT to buy insurance....or bought insurance with very high deductables....and then neglected to include the cost of the deductable, or the cost of getting ill with no insurance in their annual budgets.

So wherweas your statement was correct, you can also say those same people went bankrupt becuase they opted to gamble that they would stay healthy.

You will find it best rdean, to look at the overall picture before making a judgement call.

It allows for better decision making.
Exactly. Actions have consequences.
 

Oldandtired

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Only if they are from third world countries. You don't see doctors moving here from France or Germany or England. Only from India or Pakistan or China.

Number one cause of bankruptcies is medical bills. People using emergency rooms as their primary source of health care were bankrupting the system.

When did the Republican party become the party of, "Piss on 'em, let them die quickly"?
Line in bold.

You left out the asterisk...and it is an important one.

The reason the number one reason for bankruptcies is medical bills is because people did not include POSSIBLE MEDICAL BILLS in the formula when they determined household budgets. They assumed they will stay healthy and opted NOT to buy insurance....or bought insurance with very high deductables....and then neglected to include the cost of the deductable, or the cost of getting ill with no insurance in their annual budgets.

So wherweas your statement was correct, you can also say those same people went bankrupt becuase they opted to gamble that they would stay healthy.

You will find it best rdean, to look at the overall picture before making a judgement call.

It allows for better decision making.
Exactly. Actions have consequences.
Decisions have consequences.

I wonder how many people went bankrupt that had some sort of serious ailment diagnosed but had opted for less vacations and more insurance or less non-essentials and lower deductibles.

Now, this has nothing to do with the poor and those with pre-exisiting conditions. That is a separate topic...but as for that bankruptcy talking point....it would have been approapriate for Obama to let the people know the truth about that statistic....it is very misleading and the fact that anyone, like rdean, regurgitates it in a debate just shows how many people are very naive to reality.
 

woodjack

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Gee....I thought the reform package was supossed to make insurance cheap, affordable and avialable to ALL....that's what the Democrat Jackals have been saying for years.

Yeah, right. :eusa_doh:

HMOs may hike premiums, slash jobs under reform | Reuters


The U.S. House of Representatives approved the reform legislation late on Sunday, climaxing a year of uncertainty over the overhaul that cast a long shadow over the health insurance industry's future.

The overhaul faces expected approval in the Senate later this week while a legal threat looms from at least 11 states.

Should the changes become law, they create myriad pressures -- some almost immediately -- on the industry's ability to maintain its profitability.

While many of the provisions and fees based on market share do not kick in until 2014, some analysts expect insurers will act soon to shore up margins.

"All of this is going to cause the cost of healthcare insurance premiums to skyrocket massively," Collins Stewart analyst Brian Wright said.

"These companies can't run at a loss, so while you can eat some margin at the end of the day you have to massively raise prices. Massively," Wright said. "California will be begging for only 39 percent rate increases."

Democrats in recent weeks had seized on the insurers' rate hikes to generate momentum for health reform, including holding a Congressional hearing on WellPoint's (WLP.N) increases of as high as 39 percent.

The Morgan Stanley Healthcare Payor index .HMO of insurers rose 1.3 percent on Monday, although large insurers WellPoint and UnitedHealth Group (UNH.N) traded lower.
Geesh don't you get it? of course premiums are going to be raised.....This bill was not for people who can afford health insurance, if you have a good paying job this bill is not for you, you will now be paying for the poor people that can't afford it, its your fault that their life choices made them have crack babies.

Don't you get it? if you pay for them, that brings you down a notch closer to their level because you are evil and payed your dues, now you have to pay for theirs to. its your fault that they did not go to school, its your fault so you now have to pay for it.

I understand that their are some horrible stories that happen to people about pre-existing conditions and such, but the Vast majority is because they chose the live the life they lead, now its up to us to give them as much as we can, to "equal the playing field" as Obama likes to say. What a joke
 
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the insurance companies for health insurance? I truly believe that clinics, doctors' offices, hospitals, nursing homes, etc, are hazardous to our health. In addition, I think pharmacology products cause as many as, if not more, problems than they help. It is nothing short of evil, the way the most vile of the most greedy are enabled to make outrageous profits on human suffering, tragedies, and basic human needs! We need to bring back price controls . God gave us an average of 70 years on earth to prepare for eternity...in heaven or hell. The choice is our own.
 

beowolfe

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What part of THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH don't you understand, beowolfe?

Dayam....for a second there, I thought you actually understood the issues before us.

Nevermind. :eusa_doh:
Jenny, dawlin........we have successful non-profit organizations all over this great nation of ours. You do realize that, don't you? The only difference between a non-profit enterprise and a for-profit enterprise is that a non-profit doesn't have to generate income for an owner or a shareholder. There is no 'free lunch' with non-profits, it just doesn't cost as much as it would with a for-profit.

Something tells me you thought all non-profits were charities, didn't you?
 

Oldandtired

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What part of THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH don't you understand, beowolfe?

Dayam....for a second there, I thought you actually understood the issues before us.

Nevermind. :eusa_doh:
Jenny, dawlin........we have successful non-profit organizations all over this great nation of ours. You do realize that, don't you? The only difference between a non-profit enterprise and a for-profit enterprise is that a non-profit doesn't have to generate income for an owner or a shareholder. There is no 'free lunch' with non-profits, it just doesn't cost as much as it would with a for-profit.

Something tells me you thought all non-profits were charities, didn't you?
But you equally realize that a non profit compaany that does what a profit company does ALSO will experience any increase in operating costs that the profit companies excperience.......no?
 
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Exactly why my Dad is shifting his business out of Ca.... and likely to add a few to the unemployment lines.
 

beowolfe

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What part of THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH don't you understand, beowolfe?

Dayam....for a second there, I thought you actually understood the issues before us.

Nevermind. :eusa_doh:
BW is correct.

If we are to eliminate pre-existing condition clauses, a PO is the only answer...and yes...at the cost of the taxpayer...

But private insurance can not survive without pre-existing condition clauses without premiums skyrocketing.

This bill was a sham...it will fail as premiums will become way too expensive...and the insurance companies will be blamed (although not really their fault)...and we will have no choice but a PO...and then ultimately it will be a single payer plan.

For good or bad, that will be the result.
The really wild part is the privision that would have held these price increases in check was taken out at the behest of the GOP.......and now they're going to try and campaign against the rate increases.....LOL.....
 

beowolfe

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Exactly why my Dad is shifting his business out of Ca.... and likely to add a few to the unemployment lines.
I don't think this is why your dad is moving his business because these type of premium increases were coming with or w/o the bill.
 

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