California rooftop solar plunges 90%

[Stryder50]

Ultimately it's a wash. They call it renewable completely ignoring the fact that the machinery degrades and needs to be replaced. So instead of consuming hydrocarbon you're consuming silica products. I don't know how that stacks up on cost comparison. I do know that the laws of thermodynamics preclude anything that's truly renewable because there's always some form of consumption.

Also there are the costs of mining, processing raw materials, then manufacturing and transport. Much of which requires use of carbon fuels. And in many cases the issue of child labor "abuse" comes into play as well.
Play this out versus useful lifespan and supposed savings over other sources of electric power, and they barely pencil out economically.

That aside, in areas where there is a lot of annual sunshine they might earn their keep. Especially if other forms are scarce or more expensive.

 

[Stryder50]

around here our bills didnt go up with solar,, they went down,,

Your personal, individual bill might have. Because you are buying less from the power company.
Even if the power company is buying less from other power companies, the cost of solar built and used by the power company is still paid by the consumers.
Check the details of your bill.

Also, remember: TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Basic business economics 101 = All business costs and taxes get passed onto the customer/consumer.

 

[justoffal]

Also there are the costs of mining, processing raw materials, then manufacturing and transport. Much of which requires use of carbon fuels. And in many cases the issue of child labor "abuse" comes into play as well.
Play this out versus useful lifespan and supposed savings over other sources of electric power, and they barely pencil out economically.

That aside, in areas where there is a lot of annual sunshine they might earn their keep. Especially if other forms are scarce or more expensive.

There is a bottom line cost that cannot be avoided no matter how you generate the electricity. There will also be a certain amount of pollution which will be unavoidable.

 

[justoffal]

Also there are the costs of mining, processing raw materials, then manufacturing and transport. Much of which requires use of carbon fuels. And in many cases the issue of child labor "abuse" comes into play as well.
Play this out versus useful lifespan and supposed savings over other sources of electric power, and they barely pencil out economically.

That aside, in areas where there is a lot of annual sunshine they might earn their keep. Especially if other forms are scarce or more expensive.

There are people who do better with the panels. Not everyone does however. Closer to the equator means more hours of direct sunlight per square foot of surface.

 

[progressive hunter]

You're confusing residential with commercial.

Go get your residential solar, and keep the panels clean. And if there are problems with the mountings, switches, transmission lines, hook-ups to your service panel, breakers, or panel hardware, don't worry about it, it's not part of the "maintenance". LOL

so its not maintenance youre worried about buy component failures,,
theree is a difference in the two,,

that might be why theres a 30 yr warranty on everything,,

 

[progressive hunter]

Your personal, individual bill might have. Because you are buying less from the power company.
Even if the power company is buying less from other power companies, the cost of solar built and used by the power company is still paid by the consumers.
Check the details of your bill.

Also, remember: TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Basic business economics 101 = All business costs and taxes get passed onto the customer/consumer.

not sure why youre talking about a free lunch,,

I have already checked the details and according to them over a 30 yr period I will save around 67K in electricity after the system is paid for,, and since I wont use that much in that time it goes back into the grid where I will be compensated at market value,,

did I miss something??

 

[Stryder50]

so tell me oh smarter that everyone else,,

when do peak overloads happen??

whats that,, in the middle of the day when all the ACs are working overtime to keep the houses and building cool,,,

with grid tie tech we could end peak overloads and not need to do rolling black outs,,

Well ole wiser than everyone else;

A few decades ago I lived down in Southern California -Orange County/Santa Ana- and it was WARM most of the year, well after the Sun went down, so those with AC were using it then, when solar wouldn't be working. Along with greater use of lights and appliances after dark, there was still a bit of peak demand that could be a strain on the grid. So occasional rolling brownout~blackout will happen even with greater home solar panel use.

I'm not opposed to solar panels for residences, but they aren't the panacea many think they are.

In my case, we replaced the roof on this 50+ year old rambler about 15 years ago. Previous owners had re-roofed with a second layer of asphalt shingles so it was a bit of a job. Plus some of the thin plywood sheeting had water rot and needed replacing. The new roof has a warranty of @ 30 years and if I were to install solar on the roof, I'd have to remove those (and they'd be out of service) to install a new roof and then reinstall the solar come about 15+ years from now.

Also, I'm doubtful the roof could support that added weight. And there are a few times in Winter I might have to get up there and brush the snow/ice off.

Fortunately I've a 1/2 acre lot and most of it is south of the house. However there are several trees shading part of it so that limits placement on frame work over the yard - which would be my preferred. That could reduce are vegetable garden area unless the framework is about 8+ feet high and the panels spaced out enough to let sunlight through to the garden patches.

I 'm giving this more consideration because the GreenieNazis have caused the local power company to shut down it's coal fired generators and now are threatening some dam and related hydro-power station removal. Hence our Grid is shrinking way below current needs and far below projected future needs. So to avoid impending power outages, wife and I are giving serious consideration to solar, and battery storage. Also carbon fuel generator backup and maybe even small wind.

BTW, those GreenieNazis have also started to remove use of natural gas in new builds and rebuilds, residential and commercial, forcing more to go onto the shrinking electrical grid. More proof the Lefties have little to no brains.

I'm opposed to mandates on strong principle of resistance to the implied tyranny. (Lazarus Long would be with me on that.) Hence I'm also opposed to the trend to force EVs upon everyone also. Especially when the electrical grid will not be increased enough to cover their added demand for electricity

Speaking of "wind"; we just spent a recent couple of weekends going East of the Cascades to visit with kids and grand-kids in Spokane and Montana. As we approach the Columbia River crossing near Vantage, the Western slope is covered with dozens of those tall wind-blade structures. During each transit, coming and going, only saw a few of them moving/spinning and those were barely doing so. As a consumer of Puget Sound Electric, which built and owns those turbines, I've paid for them out of my electric bill rates. Great to see I'm getting my money's worth out of them (likewise the shut down coal plants and hydro-generators)(tongue-in-cheek satire).

 

[justoffal]

not sure why youre talking about a free lunch,,

I have already checked the details and according to them over a 30 yr period I will save around 67K in electricity after the system is paid for,, and since I wont use that much in that time it goes back into the grid where I will be compensated at market value,,

did I miss something??

What is the kwh capacity? Electric stove? Water heater?
Furnace? Dryer?

 

[progressive hunter]

Well ole wiser than everyone else;

A few decades ago I lived down in Southern California -Orange County/Santa Ana- and it was WARM most of the year, well after the Sun went down, so those with AC were using it then, when solar wouldn't be working. Along with greater use of lights and appliances after dark, there was still a bit of peak demand that could be a strain on the grid. So occasional rolling brownout~blackout will happen even with greater home solar panel use.

I'm not opposed to solar panels for residences, but they aren't the panacea many think they are.

In my case, we replaced the roof on this 50+ year old rambler about 15 years ago. Previous owners had re-roofed with a second layer of asphalt shingles so it was a bit of a job. Plus some of the thin plywood sheeting had water rot and needed replacing. The new roof has a warranty of @ 30 years and if I were to install solar on the roof, I'd have to remove those (and they'd be out of service) to install a new roof and then reinstall the solar come about 15+ years from now.

Also, I'm doubtful the roof could support that added weight. And there are a few times in Winter I might have to get up there and brush the snow/ice off.

Fortunately I've a 1/2 acre lot and most of it is south of the house. However there are several trees shading part of it so that limits placement on frame work over the yard - which would be my preferred. That could reduce are vegetable garden area unless the framework is about 8+ feet high and the panels spaced out enough to let sunlight through to the garden patches.

I 'm giving this more consideration because the GreenieNazis have caused the local power company to shut down it's coal fired generators and now are threatening some dam and related hydro-power station removal. Hence our Grid is shrinking way below current needs and far below projected future needs. So to avoid impending power outages, wife and I are giving serious consideration to solar, and battery storage. Also carbon fuel generator backup and maybe even small wind.

BTW, those GreenieNazis have also started to remove use of natural gas in new builds and rebuilds, residential and commercial, forcing more to go onto the shrinking electrical grid. More proof the Lefties have little to no brains.

I'm opposed to mandates on strong principle of resistance to the implied tyranny. (Lazarus Long would be with me on that.) Hence I'm also opposed to the trend to force EVs upon everyone also. Especially when the electrical grid will not be increased enough to cover their added demand for electricity

Speaking of "wind"; we just spent a recent couple of weekends going East of the Cascades to visit with kids and grand-kids in Spokane and Montana. As we approach the Columbia River crossing near Vantage, the Western slope is covered with dozens of those tall wind-blade structures. During each transit, coming and going, only saw a few of them moving/spinning and those were barely doing so. As a consumer of Puget Sound Electric, which built and owns those turbines, I've paid for them out of my electric bill rates. Great to see I'm getting my money's worth out of them (likewise the shut down coal plants and hydro-generators)(tongue-in-cheek satire).

blah blah blah ba blah,,,

if youre not going to stay on topic we are dine,,

I am talking about residential homes and solar power,,
not sure where youre going with this and not going to take time to figure it out,,

 

[progressive hunter]

What is the kwh capacity?

the numbers are on my wifes phone and shes not here,,

it was more than enough to cover our house and shop other than months in winter where my 50 amp heater in the shop runs it above full coverage,,

 

[Stryder50]

not sure why youre talking about a free lunch,,

I have already checked the details and according to them over a 30 yr period I will save around 67K in electricity after the system is paid for,, and since I wont use that much in that time it goes back into the grid where I will be compensated at market value,,

did I miss something??

Your earlier comment about " but I would like to see the energy companies paying some or most of the bill,,"(post #20)
Implies your ignornce that you and other users/consumers are those who really pay for it, pay for anything that the energy companies do.

 

[justoffal]

the numbers are on my wifes phone and shes not here,,

it was more than enough to cover our house and shop other than 2 months in winter where my 50 amp heater in the shop runs it above full coverage,,

Your company matched you well.

 

[marvin martian]

so its not maintenance youre worried about buy component failures,,
theree is a difference in the two,,

that might be why theres a 30 yr warranty on everything,,

Maintenance prevents early component failures.

Do you own a car? Ever change the oil? Replace the brake pads? Rotate the tires?

Also, read the fine print on that "warranty" you got.

 

[progressive hunter]

Your earlier comment about " but I would like to see the energy companies paying some or most of the bill,,"(post #20)
Implies your ignornce that you and other users/consumers are those who really pay for it, pay for anything that the energy companies do.

I was talking about them paying the subsidy and not the government,,

 

[progressive hunter]

Your company matched you well.

what sucks is if I get a loan at 3.9% the bank charges like 15-20K in bank fees,,

if I pay out of pocket its like 20K less,,

 

[Stryder50]

blah blah blah ba blah,,,

if youre not going to stay on topic we are dine,,

I am talking about residential homes and solar power,,
not sure where youre going with this and not going to take time to figure it out,,

What are we "dine" on? Burgers and hot dogs?

Guess you can't handle details, no surprise.

Thread topic is rooftop solar panel mandate and implied affect upon the larger electrical grids.

Not surprised you can't keep up, are overwhelmed. Too much for your tiny brain to deal with it seems.

 

[progressive hunter]

Maintenance prevents early component failures.

Do you own a car? Ever change the oil? Replace the brake pads? Rotate the tires?

Also, read the fine print on that "warranty" you got.

oh dear god please tell me youre not comparing washing solar panels with changing oil in a car??

its a 30 yr full warranty on everything,, and I think it was 40 yr on the panels themselves,,

 

[progressive hunter]

What are we "dine" on? Burgers and hot dogs?

Guess you can't handle details, no surprise.

Thread topic is rooftop solar panel mandate and implied affect upon the larger electrical grids.

Not surprised you can't keep up, are overwhelmed. Too much for your tiny brain to deal with it seems.

and I was talking specifically about residential,,

 

[Stryder50]

I was talking about them paying the subsidy and not the government,,

Them are "you" as a user/consumer who pays the costs.
You are also "the government" in that anything it pays for is either your taxes or your ownership of their deficit and debt.

Again, seems you need to repeat and pass a few courses on basic economics and business accounting.

 

[leftwinger]

theres a logical argument to be had mandating solar on bigger houses in the southwest,,

smaller ones should be exempt,, I would say 3000 sq ft plus,,

Nope. Payback far too long. You need new panels by the time you break even.