California Legislature to Expand Illegal Alien Benefits!

[polpotterybarn]

Hey pol, whenever you're trying to post a picture press the little Mountain and sun icon and paste the jpg address and voila!

Can't until I have at least 15 posts. The forum man is keeping me down

Ya but the Mexicans are making America a shitty place just like they already have done in Mexico.

What about that?

They aren't making America shitty, they're contributing to society more than any desk job. Mexico is the way it is for a myriad of reasons, none of which is "Mexicanness."

 

[Tank]

Why can't Mexicans make Mexico a nice place?

 

[Tom Clancy]

Well, you have 16 now, so there you go.

 

[polpotterybarn]

That is not a reply, polpotterybarn. Civil disobedience is committed by citizens. Illegals are not here with legal permission. You said "not everyone can wait" but what gives any non-US person the right to enter without government approval?

I'm just mystified at folks like you, who seem to believe Mexicans have a "right to the American Dream too". Do I have a right to the Australian Dream?

American citizens are suddenly better than non-American citizens? More deserving of the you've had, unquestioned, your whole life? Yes, I think someone from Mexico has the same right as me, an American citizen, to live a good life. Most people (myself included) have the luxury of looking at these life-or-death decisions as an abstract instead of as a reality. For these families, though, the situation is real and the choice is obvious: go to America or starve to death. We are in no position to tell them that it is wrong to do this.

Four million people are now starving, dying of thirst or disease in Pakistan. Do we also owe all of them a rescue? Has it not yet dawned on you the US does not have unlimited resources and cannot be run like a Red Cross for the entirety of Planet Earth?

The glaring difference here is that the government isn't doing anything to help the undocumented workers. That's simply the omnipotent Free Market. The free market is allowing undocumented workers to underbid United States citizens for bad jobs. If we were to help Pakistan, it would be the government. Not that that's a bad idea; keep in mind that we spend more on killing other people than any other country in the history of the world. That condescension is cute, though. Keep it up

 

[Tank]

They aren't making America shitty, they're contributing to society more than any desk job. Mexico is the way it is for a myriad of reasons, none of which is "Mexicanness."

O Yea they are making America shitty, just like they do in there own homeland, crossing the border does not change a Mexican

 

[polpotterybarn]

Why can't Mexicans make Mexico a nice place?

For the same reason they're coming to America: they're stuck in an endless cycle of crippling poverty. America, while certainly not good in this regard, has much more upward mobility than Mexico.

 

[Tank]

they're stuck in an endless cycle of crippling poverty.

That is what this whole topic is about.

Thats the way they are in America too, and how about all the crime they commit too.

If they can't even make there own homeland a nice place how will they be any help to America?

 

[Madeline]

American citizens are suddenly better than non-American citizens? More deserving of the you've had, unquestioned, your whole life? Yes, I think someone from Mexico has the same right as me, an American citizen, to live a good life. Most people (myself included) have the luxury of looking at these life-or-death decisions as an abstract instead of as a reality. For these families, though, the situation is real and the choice is obvious: go to America or starve to death. We are in no position to tell them that it is wrong to do this.

Four million people are now starving, dying of thirst or disease in Pakistan. Do we also owe all of them a rescue? Has it not yet dawned on you the US does not have unlimited resources and cannot be run like a Red Cross for the entirety of Planet Earth?

The glaring difference here is that the government isn't doing anything to help the undocumented workers. That's simply the omnipotent Free Market. The free market is allowing undocumented workers to underbid United States citizens for bad jobs. If we were to help Pakistan, it would be the government. Not that that's a bad idea; keep in mind that we spend more on killing other people than any other country in the history of the world. That condescension is cute, though. Keep it up

I'd say free health care, free education and all the glories of welfare constituted "the government doing something for undocumented workers". You still have not explained why you feel Mexico's citizens should be exempt from US immigration laws.

Why even have any immigration laws if we exempt all brown people?

I'm sorry you feel being asked to defend your POV is "condescending". You may run into that a lot on here.

 

[Madeline]

Why can't Mexicans make Mexico a nice place?

For the same reason they're coming to America: they're stuck in an endless cycle of crippling poverty. America, while certainly not good in this regard, has much more upward mobility than Mexico.

So your solution is to end upward mobility in America?

 

[polpotterybarn]

they're stuck in an endless cycle of crippling poverty.

That is what this whole topic is about.

Thats the way they are in America too, and how about all the crime they commit too.

If they can't even make there own homeland a nice place how will they be any help to America?

How do you help America? If helping America is a prerequisite to being an American then I feel like a majority of Americans should be deported

 

[polpotterybarn]

Why can't Mexicans make Mexico a nice place?

For the same reason they're coming to America: they're stuck in an endless cycle of crippling poverty. America, while certainly not good in this regard, has much more upward mobility than Mexico.

So your solution is to end upward mobility in America?

How was my post misconstrued to mean that? American upward mobility isn't good but Mexico's is worse, hence immigration.

 

[Tank]

How do you help America? If helping America is a prerequisite to being an American then I feel like a majority of Americans should be deported

I agree

 

[Madeline]

For the same reason they're coming to America: they're stuck in an endless cycle of crippling poverty. America, while certainly not good in this regard, has much more upward mobility than Mexico.

So your solution is to end upward mobility in America?

How was my post misconstrued to mean that? American upward mobility isn't good but Mexico's is worse, hence immigration.

So you feel anyone who lives elsewhere and can show he or she would be better off living here has a (natural? legal? moral?) right to emigrate to the US, and we should amend our immigration laws to require no more than a "Hi!" from those seeking entrance?

 

[Madeline]

How do you help America? If helping America is a prerequisite to being an American then I feel like a majority of Americans should be deported

I agree

WTF? I can't follow you two at all. The punishment for being a "bad American" should be deportation?

To where?

 

[Tom Clancy]

Serbia.

 

[polpotterybarn]

So your solution is to end upward mobility in America?

How was my post misconstrued to mean that? American upward mobility isn't good but Mexico's is worse, hence immigration.

So you feel anyone who lives elsewhere and can show he or she would be better off living here has a (natural? legal? moral?) right to emigrate to the US, and we should amend our immigration laws to require no more than a "Hi!" from those seeking entrance?

If someone thinks they'd be better off in America, then they should be able to come to America. What happened to being a country of immigrants? Just because western Europeans happen to be the most common immigrants doesn't mean that they're better than anyone else. Nowadays the concept of borders is kind of disingenuous in that no one goes around conquering countries any more. A lot of problems worldwide are caused by these often arbitrary borders.

 

[polpotterybarn]

How do you help America? If helping America is a prerequisite to being an American then I feel like a majority of Americans should be deported

I agree

WTF? I can't follow you two at all. The punishment for being a "bad American" should be deportation?

To where?

I was asking him if that's how he felt. I don't feel like you need to help the greater cause of American imperialism or whatever to live in America. Clearly, Tank does. Once again, I DO NOT think that's true and he DOES.

 

[get_involved]

These undocumented workers are coming here out of necessity. It is immoral to label them as illegal when they are coming here and taking the worst jobs at the worst pay only to send the money back to their families in hope that they can one day come to the United States where a better life is possible for them. There once was a time in America, you know, when we actually encouraged immigration. The statue of liberty reads "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Can you imagine if your grandparents or great grandparents or whoever brought you here had to go through an inefficient and decades-long citizenship process, only to be the designated gripe catchers of American society?

Also, with NAFTA, capital can cross the United States-Mexico border without a problem. Prospective immigrants, however, have it harder than ever. Are we, then, saying capital is more important than thousands of people whose only hope is a below-minimum wage American job? Either way, advocation for harsher border policy is not only impractical but also morally abhorrent.

Edit:

Only a WASP American baby could ever have a problem with educating the poor. Are you kidding me

We take in more LEGAL immigrants than any country in the world.


That quote on the Statue of Liberty was never there when the French gave it to us. It was added well into the 20th Century. Added not by a vote of the people but by a pro-immgration poet who somehow successfully lobbied to get it snuck in.

Besides, there is quite a difference between immigration over 100 years ago and now. 100 years ago there was still vast unsettled territory and absolutely no welfare state. People came here to work. Even then we kept a close eye on immigration and even passed the fair and level-headed national origins immigration act in 1925. We need that act re-instated.

The inscription on the Statue of Liberty is—poetry on a work of art—not a law or government policy of the USA.

 

[Madeline]

Serbia.

You obviously never watch HGTV. Serbia's gorgeous.

 

[Tom Clancy]

My mom watches HGTV all the time just like I watch hockey..

Not gonna lie, they have good shows.