CAIR Launches Website Exposing America's 'Islamophobia Network'

[Rikurzhen]

No, Islam is a religion of 1.2 billion people. The vast majority don't hold to violent ideals.

EVERY single school of Islamic Jurisprudence holds that a man who renounces Islam should be put to death. There are no factions within Islam which oppose this principle. Putting people to death because they leave Islam is a violent ideal.

The parallel to Nazism is apt. There were Nazis who did bad things and then there were ordinary everyday Nazis who believed deeply but weren't instrumental in the party or actions in furtherance of the party, the everyday moderate Nazis.

 

[Mojo2]

Prove it's a hate group.

The Virginia man who pleaded guilty to an act of armed terrorism and assault with intent to kill in last year's shooting attack at the conservative Family Research Council said he got the idea from the liberal-leaning Southern Poverty Law Center's "hate map."​

Umh...did you READ your source? It's not saying SPLC is a "hate group" - quite the opposite. It's saying that this nut used their list of hate groups to find a victim.

You know full well that many on their hit list have had fatwas issued for their death.

Are you an Islamist?

After 9-11, all leftists became Islamists.

Or Dhimmis.

You should have seen the shock from one Muslim poster in the early 2000's when I introduced that word to our board.

It was electric.

Denials. Heated denials.

We all knew he was not supposed to discuss this with infidels and he prolly didn't think we'd actually read the internet.

Pfft.

 

[westwall]

I agree they are not blameless, but they are the equivalent of the Germans who remained passive while the Nazis took over. They can see it happening, they just can't believe it's their next door neighbor. That needs to change.

It's a little trickier than that, because even as 250 million Muslims hold violent views, a much greater number agrees with the totalitarian agenda, if falling short of advocating violence to get there, so it is really less a mater of simply remaining passive and being unaware, and more a matter of sharing the same sets of assumptions as to how the world should be.

.

But how much of that is based on fear? Face it, if you go off the reservation, there are plenty of Islamists who will happily cut your head off. I feel that a great majority of the people who remain quiet do so for that very reason.

 

[Coyote]

Prove it's a hate group.

The Virginia man who pleaded guilty to an act of armed terrorism and assault with intent to kill in last year's shooting attack at the conservative Family Research Council said he got the idea from the liberal-leaning Southern Poverty Law Center's "hate map."​

Umh...did you READ your source? It's not saying SPLC is a "hate group" - quite the opposite. It's saying that this nut used their list of hate groups to find a victim.

I'm saying the SPLC is a hate group, you know, just like SPLC decides that it wants to label the Family Research Council as a hate group, or the Center for Immigration Reform as a hate group, or pick-up artists who like to have sex with women as sufficient to get on the SPLC's list of haters:

Take note, America: Having consensual sex (Roosh is not a rapist, but a seducer*) with someone you don't actually like and then never calling her/him again will land you in a reputation-ruining** SPLC report.​

​

The SPLC applies pretty good criteria as to what constitutes a hate group. Do you consider the KKK a hate group? I don't know about the Misogyny report - will need to look at that more closely. But most of the list of hate groups - I agree with their placement on the list.

​

In my experience, only idiots refer to the SPLC as some form of neutral organization:

Still, there may soon come a day when the SPLC’s donation-generating machine, powered by Dees’s mastery of the use of “hate” to coax dollars from the highly educated and the highly gullible, finally breaks down. That is why, according to Cohen, the SPLC has no intention of soon spending down much of that $256 million in stockpiled assets that has earned the center an “F” rating from CharityWatch. “We’ve tried to raise a substantial endowment, because our fundraising is on a downward trend,” Cohen told me. “Those 1960s liberals—they’re getting older, and the post office is dying. We’re likely to be out of the fundraising business within 10 years.” What the SPLC wants to do is to ensure that “hate” is forever.​

I never said they are "neutral" - I don't think any one is, including The Weekly Standard. I do notice a lot of the criticism seems to come from the Right.

CharityWatch requires a subscription to see it's ratings - so, I can't verify the claim made (and the article provides no link to sources). It seems most of the ratings are pretty good but where they are criticized (ie rec'd a "failed screening" is fiscal - in their "reserve ratio" .

I also found these:

Charity Navigator Rating - Southern Poverty Law Center
Southern Poverty Law Center - SourceWatch

Southern Poverty Law Center SeriousGivers.org SGO
According to this source's 2014 report:

• CharityNavigator.org rates this charity “3-Stars” (Good).
• CharityWatch.org rates this charity. has not rated this charity.
• The charity’s five SeriousGivers ratios show:
  • 4 “green” (acceptable),
  • 0 “yellow” (caution, discuss and obtain explanation) and
  • 1 “red” (failed screening).

Southern Poverty Law Center

It's also pretty easy to look any of the groups listed, search out their statements and stances and decide for yourself whether or not they meet the criteria for hate groups. I think this definition is a good one and many of those Anti-Muslim groups more than meet it.

Hate Groups
A hate group is an organized group or movement that advocates and practices hatred, hostility, or violence towards members of a race, ethnicity, religion, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation or any other designated sector of society.

 

[Rikurzhen]

But how much of that is based on fear? Face it, if you go off the reservation, there are plenty of Islamists who will happily cut your head off. I feel that a great majority of the people who remain quiet do so for that very reason.

Here's what I suspect you're doing. You;'re taking a model of intimidation which has played out in other situations and applying it to Islam. This is like Liberals seeing how different sects of Christianity act, where people profess a faith and it informs their private spiritual life and then they apply this model to Islam, as though Islam was strictly a private affair to guide one's spiritual life.

Those models are both faulty. Moderate Muslims believe in the VERY SAME things as extremist Muslims, it's only extremist who get off their duff and implement what they believe. Being a true blue Nazi believer but not actually taking to the street to round up Jews doesn't make a moderate Nazi an angel.

 

[Coyote]

No, Islam is a religion of 1.2 billion people. The vast majority don't hold to violent ideals. However, those that do, STILL number over 250 MILLION. That should give one pause. And I think CAIR itself is digging itself a hole. I would like to see their Islamophobe lists countered by lists of known Islamic terrorist organizations that one should not interact with.

They are too one sided for me.

I disagree.

I don't see a Martin Luther among the Muslims calling for reform and renouncing the violence of the Koran and Hadiths. We have 1.2 billion who follow a creed that demands conversion by the sword and violent subjugation of all people. 250 million actively engage in enforcing these ideas. Those who stand in silent acquiescence are not blameless.

mmmh....Martin Luther was responsible for a shit load of violence and blood thread wasn't he? Including centuries of religious war? He was also a horrible anti-semite. I don't think we need a Martin Luther.

 

[Coyote]

They are no different than the ADL, for example, .

Bullshit . For starters, the ADL protects an ethnic minority from persecution. C.A.I.R. is all about enforcing the dictates of a totalitarian political ideology.

Really now?

Secondly, the ADL does not provide hit lists of people who have a death threat over their heads from their fellow Jews.
I shouldn't even have to mention that fact that the adl does not funnel money to known genocidal terrorist organizations.

Neither does CAIR. They simply provide a list of hate sites, groups, and individuals who have promoted bigotry.

Are you in the Muslim Brotherhood?

No. I'm stealth Islamist Jihadi. If you are going to invent labels, please try to keep them straight.

 

[Rikurzhen]

The SPLC applies pretty good criteria as to what constitutes a hate group.

Senator Goldwater articulated a Civil Rights vision which prohibited government from compelling people into forced associations and restricted Civil Rights provisions only to government, in that governments govern us all and so should treat us all equally and fairly.

Liberals rejected this vision, they favor governments using the force of law and imposition of violence, in order to strip people of their human right to free association.

Does the SPLC list liberals who believe in human rights oppression as an organized hate movement? I view liberals as totalitarians intent on stripping me of my human rights. That qualifies as hate by anyone's standard and yet SPLC doesn't target liberal hate groups, like the Democrats, in its reports.

 

[Coyote]

Islam is a religion of billions who span countries and cultures around the world. Within in that religion you have huge ethnic, religious, national and cultural divisions. They are not like Germany and the Nazi's. They are not monolithic. Each country has to grapple with a different set of problems - extremists, seperatists, ethnic and tribal divisions fueling extremists. It's easy to say "Islam needs to do something as a whole" until you realize there isn't "a whole". No one makes that sort of demand on any other religious group.

Now given that - I do think Islamic majority nations need to grapple their assorted problems and tackle extremism, and they are waking up to the issues particularly in the Middle East - but there is no one "solution" because there is no one "religion" and the problems underlying the growth in extremism are many and varied.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

But how much of that is based on fear? .

I would suppose that would make Muslims Islamophobes, then, wouldn't it?

Add the number of Islamophobes such as Coyote would describe it (anything short of a complete Islamophile) to the number of Muslims who are Islamophobes, and there must be billions.

 

[Coyote]

But how much of that is based on fear? Face it, if you go off the reservation, there are plenty of Islamists who will happily cut your head off. I feel that a great majority of the people who remain quiet do so for that very reason.

Here's what I suspect you're doing. You;'re taking a model of intimidation which has played out in other situations and applying it to Islam. This is like Liberals seeing how different sects of Christianity act, where people profess a faith and it informs their private spiritual life and then they apply this model to Islam, as though Islam was strictly a private affair to guide one's spiritual life.

Those models are both faulty. Moderate Muslims believe in the VERY SAME things as extremist Muslims, it's only extremist who get off their duff and implement what they believe. Being a true blue Nazi believer but not actually taking to the street to round up Jews doesn't make a moderate Nazi an angel.

Can you support that claim?

It doesn't seem to be supported by this: Executive Summary Pew Research Center s Religion Public Life Project

 

[Rikurzhen]

But how much of that is based on fear? Face it, if you go off the reservation, there are plenty of Islamists who will happily cut your head off. I feel that a great majority of the people who remain quiet do so for that very reason.

Here's what I suspect you're doing. You;'re taking a model of intimidation which has played out in other situations and applying it to Islam. This is like Liberals seeing how different sects of Christianity act, where people profess a faith and it informs their private spiritual life and then they apply this model to Islam, as though Islam was strictly a private affair to guide one's spiritual life.

Those models are both faulty. Moderate Muslims believe in the VERY SAME things as extremist Muslims, it's only extremist who get off their duff and implement what they believe. Being a true blue Nazi believer but not actually taking to the street to round up Jews doesn't make a moderate Nazi an angel.

Can you support that claim?

Apostasy in Islam:

This traditional view of Sunni and Shia Islamic fiqhs, or schools of jurisprudence each with their own interpretation of Sharia, varies as follows:[15][59][16]

Hanafi - recommends three days of imprisonment before execution, although the delay before killing the Muslim apostate is not mandatory. Apostates who are men must be killed, states the Hanafi Sunni fiqh, while women must be held in solitary confinement and beaten every three days till they recant and return to Islam.[3]
Maliki - allows up to ten days for recantation, after which the apostate must be killed. Both men and women apostates deserve death penalty according to the traditional view of Sunni Maliki fiqh.[59]
Shafi'i - waiting period of three days is required to allow the Muslim apostate to repent and return to Islam. After the wait, execution is the traditional recommended punishment for both men and women apostates.[59]
Hanbali - waiting period not necessary, but may be granted. Execution is traditional recommended punishment for both genders of Muslim apostates.[59]
Ja'fari - waiting period not necessary, but may be granted according to this Shia fiqh. Male apostate must be executed, states the Jafari fiqh, while a female apostate must be held in solitary confinement and beaten every day at the hours of the ṣalāh, till she repents and returns to Islam.[3]
​

We all see the various Christian sects which differ amongst themselves about what Christianity REALLY MEANS, well those same doctrinal differences also play out in Islam. As with Christianity and its core beliefs, Jesus is God, Islam also has it's core beliefs, death to apostates, dividing the world into two realms, the House of Peace and the House of War (lands under Islamic control and lands not under Islamic control, respectively), having a duty to convert the House of War into the House of Peace.

 

[Coyote]

But how much of that is based on fear? Face it, if you go off the reservation, there are plenty of Islamists who will happily cut your head off. I feel that a great majority of the people who remain quiet do so for that very reason.

Here's what I suspect you're doing. You;'re taking a model of intimidation which has played out in other situations and applying it to Islam. This is like Liberals seeing how different sects of Christianity act, where people profess a faith and it informs their private spiritual life and then they apply this model to Islam, as though Islam was strictly a private affair to guide one's spiritual life.

Those models are both faulty. Moderate Muslims believe in the VERY SAME things as extremist Muslims, it's only extremist who get off their duff and implement what they believe. Being a true blue Nazi believer but not actually taking to the street to round up Jews doesn't make a moderate Nazi an angel.

Can you support that claim?

Apostasy in Islam:

This traditional view of Sunni and Shia Islamic fiqhs, or schools of jurisprudence each with their own interpretation of Sharia, varies as follows:[15][59][16]

Hanafi - recommends three days of imprisonment before execution, although the delay before killing the Muslim apostate is not mandatory. Apostates who are men must be killed, states the Hanafi Sunni fiqh, while women must be held in solitary confinement and beaten every three days till they recant and return to Islam.[3]
Maliki - allows up to ten days for recantation, after which the apostate must be killed. Both men and women apostates deserve death penalty according to the traditional view of Sunni Maliki fiqh.[59]
Shafi'i - waiting period of three days is required to allow the Muslim apostate to repent and return to Islam. After the wait, execution is the traditional recommended punishment for both men and women apostates.[59]
Hanbali - waiting period not necessary, but may be granted. Execution is traditional recommended punishment for both genders of Muslim apostates.[59]
Ja'fari - waiting period not necessary, but may be granted according to this Shia fiqh. Male apostate must be executed, states the Jafari fiqh, while a female apostate must be held in solitary confinement and beaten every day at the hours of the ṣalāh, till she repents and returns to Islam.[3]
​

We all see the various Christian sects which differ amongst themselves about what Christianity REALLY MEANS, well those same doctrinal differences also play out in Islam. As with Christianity and its core beliefs, Jesus is God, Islam also has it's core beliefs, death to apostates, dividing the world into two realms, the House of Peace and the House of War (lands under Islamic control and lands not under Islamic control, respectively), having a duty to convert the House of War into the House of Peace.

That's defining something, but that's not exactly answering the claim "moderate Muslims believe in the VERY SAME things as extremist Muslims".

For example - I don't see support among moderate Muslims for killing unbelievers, or the things ISIS is doing.

 

[Mojo2]

They are no different than the ADL, for example, .

Bullshit . For starters, the ADL protects an ethnic minority from persecution. C.A.I.R. is all about enforcing the dictates of a totalitarian political ideology.

Really now?

Yes. Really now.

Secondly, the ADL does not provide hit lists of people who have a death threat over their heads from their fellow Jews.
I shouldn't even have to mention that fact that the adl does not funnel money to known genocidal terrorist organizations.

Neither does CAIR. They simply provide a list of hate sites, groups, and individuals who have promoted bigotry.

Are you in the Muslim Brotherhood?

No. I'm stealth Islamist Jihadi. If you are going to invent labels, please try to keep them straight.

Many a true word was spoken in jest.

I have no doubt you are a real life Jihadi.

This is your Jihad.

Of the pen.

Toward the ultimate goal of global conquest in Allah's name.

 

[Mojo2]

Hate groups and sites should be challenged exposed, regardless of their target population.

Islam is a hate group of 1.2 billion members. Yet you seek to cover for it.

SPLC posts many of those same individuals on their site, along with what they've said and done to promote hatred. They do the same with racists and anti-semites such as David Duke, Michael Savage, Kevin MacDonald etc. etc. I don't think anyone regards those as "hit lists". The ADL, for example, maintains a watch on anti-semitism incidents and individuals promoting anti-semitism and related conspiracy theory crap. CAIR is doing nothing different than what these other groups do - lifting stones and exposing what lies underneath.

The SPLC is a hate group - no denying it. The SPLC may have a different target than the KKK, specifically Christians, Libertarians, Republicans, and anyone opposing the Obama agenda; but the methods used by the SPLC are virtually identical. The old KKK burned a cross on your lawn, the new KKK runs a hate campaign in the NY Times and lynches you on MSNBC.

So it makes perfect sense for those who brutally cut the heads off of people on YouTube to join forces with this anti-Christian hate group.

No, Islam is a religion of 1.2 billion people. The vast majority don't hold to violent ideals. However, those that do, STILL number over 250 MILLION. That should give one pause. And I think CAIR itself is digging itself a hole. I would like to see their Islamophobe lists countered by lists of known Islamic terrorist organizations that one should not interact with.

They are too one sided for me.

Brigitte Gabriel addresses this point beautifully and her comments (in the video below) answered all the remaining questions I had about the moderate Muslims and how to regard them.

Watch.

 

[Mojo2]

 

[westwall]

Hate groups and sites should be challenged exposed, regardless of their target population.

Islam is a hate group of 1.2 billion members. Yet you seek to cover for it.

SPLC posts many of those same individuals on their site, along with what they've said and done to promote hatred. They do the same with racists and anti-semites such as David Duke, Michael Savage, Kevin MacDonald etc. etc. I don't think anyone regards those as "hit lists". The ADL, for example, maintains a watch on anti-semitism incidents and individuals promoting anti-semitism and related conspiracy theory crap. CAIR is doing nothing different than what these other groups do - lifting stones and exposing what lies underneath.

The SPLC is a hate group - no denying it. The SPLC may have a different target than the KKK, specifically Christians, Libertarians, Republicans, and anyone opposing the Obama agenda; but the methods used by the SPLC are virtually identical. The old KKK burned a cross on your lawn, the new KKK runs a hate campaign in the NY Times and lynches you on MSNBC.

So it makes perfect sense for those who brutally cut the heads off of people on YouTube to join forces with this anti-Christian hate group.

No, Islam is a religion of 1.2 billion people. The vast majority don't hold to violent ideals. However, those that do, STILL number over 250 MILLION. That should give one pause. And I think CAIR itself is digging itself a hole. I would like to see their Islamophobe lists countered by lists of known Islamic terrorist organizations that one should not interact with.

They are too one sided for me.

Brigitte Gabriel addresses this point beautifully and her comments (in the video below) answered all the remaining questions I had about the moderate Muslims and how to regard them.

Watch.

Good video. Me thinks the SPLC will label her an extremist any day now.

 

[Mojo2]

Hate groups and sites should be challenged exposed, regardless of their target population.

Islam is a hate group of 1.2 billion members. Yet you seek to cover for it.

SPLC posts many of those same individuals on their site, along with what they've said and done to promote hatred. They do the same with racists and anti-semites such as David Duke, Michael Savage, Kevin MacDonald etc. etc. I don't think anyone regards those as "hit lists". The ADL, for example, maintains a watch on anti-semitism incidents and individuals promoting anti-semitism and related conspiracy theory crap. CAIR is doing nothing different than what these other groups do - lifting stones and exposing what lies underneath.

The SPLC is a hate group - no denying it. The SPLC may have a different target than the KKK, specifically Christians, Libertarians, Republicans, and anyone opposing the Obama agenda; but the methods used by the SPLC are virtually identical. The old KKK burned a cross on your lawn, the new KKK runs a hate campaign in the NY Times and lynches you on MSNBC.

So it makes perfect sense for those who brutally cut the heads off of people on YouTube to join forces with this anti-Christian hate group.

No, Islam is a religion of 1.2 billion people. The vast majority don't hold to violent ideals. However, those that do, STILL number over 250 MILLION. That should give one pause. And I think CAIR itself is digging itself a hole. I would like to see their Islamophobe lists countered by lists of known Islamic terrorist organizations that one should not interact with.

They are too one sided for me.

Brigitte Gabriel addresses this point beautifully and her comments (in the video below) answered all the remaining questions I had about the moderate Muslims and how to regard them.

Watch.

Good video. Me thinks the SPLC will label her an extremist any day now.

LOLOL

Good one!

 

[westwall]

Hate groups and sites should be challenged exposed, regardless of their target population.

Islam is a hate group of 1.2 billion members. Yet you seek to cover for it.

SPLC posts many of those same individuals on their site, along with what they've said and done to promote hatred. They do the same with racists and anti-semites such as David Duke, Michael Savage, Kevin MacDonald etc. etc. I don't think anyone regards those as "hit lists". The ADL, for example, maintains a watch on anti-semitism incidents and individuals promoting anti-semitism and related conspiracy theory crap. CAIR is doing nothing different than what these other groups do - lifting stones and exposing what lies underneath.

The SPLC is a hate group - no denying it. The SPLC may have a different target than the KKK, specifically Christians, Libertarians, Republicans, and anyone opposing the Obama agenda; but the methods used by the SPLC are virtually identical. The old KKK burned a cross on your lawn, the new KKK runs a hate campaign in the NY Times and lynches you on MSNBC.

So it makes perfect sense for those who brutally cut the heads off of people on YouTube to join forces with this anti-Christian hate group.

No, Islam is a religion of 1.2 billion people. The vast majority don't hold to violent ideals. However, those that do, STILL number over 250 MILLION. That should give one pause. And I think CAIR itself is digging itself a hole. I would like to see their Islamophobe lists countered by lists of known Islamic terrorist organizations that one should not interact with.

They are too one sided for me.

Brigitte Gabriel addresses this point beautifully and her comments (in the video below) answered all the remaining questions I had about the moderate Muslims and how to regard them.

Watch.

Good video. Me thinks the SPLC will label her an extremist any day now.

LOLOL

Good one!

Good for her. I have a feeling that there are going to be some very violent outbursts in the UK and that the Muslims are going to be sent home.....those that survive. I have quite a few friends in the UK and they are getting fed up with it. The UK government is blissfully ignorant and the pressure is building.

 

[georgephillip]

Islam is a hate group of 1.2 billion members. Yet you seek to cover for it.

The SPLC is a hate group - no denying it. The SPLC may have a different target than the KKK, specifically Christians, Libertarians, Republicans, and anyone opposing the Obama agenda; but the methods used by the SPLC are virtually identical. The old KKK burned a cross on your lawn, the new KKK runs a hate campaign in the NY Times and lynches you on MSNBC.

So it makes perfect sense for those who brutally cut the heads off of people on YouTube to join forces with this anti-Christian hate group.

No, Islam is a religion of 1.2 billion people. The vast majority don't hold to violent ideals. However, those that do, STILL number over 250 MILLION. That should give one pause. And I think CAIR itself is digging itself a hole. I would like to see their Islamophobe lists countered by lists of known Islamic terrorist organizations that one should not interact with.

They are too one sided for me.

Brigitte Gabriel addresses this point beautifully and her comments (in the video below) answered all the remaining questions I had about the moderate Muslims and how to regard them.

Watch.

Good video. Me thinks the SPLC will label her an extremist any day now.

LOLOL

Good one!

Good for her. I have a feeling that there are going to be some very violent outbursts in the UK and that the Muslims are going to be sent home.....those that survive. I have quite a few friends in the UK and they are getting fed up with it. The UK government is blissfully ignorant and the pressure is building.

By pressure do you mean blow-back from Sykes-Picot and the Balfour Declaration? Any Muslim violence in France or England stems directly from Empire and so does the resulting Islamophobia.
Islamophobia and the Politics of Empire - Deepa Kumar on Reality Asserts Itself 3 5