Bye bye Crimea we hardly knew you

[Katzndogz]

Sadly it's not a military occupation. Ukraine , and especially Crimea has a majority Russian population that voted a pro Russian president before. It's democracy that caused this. The Russians in Ukraine just cannot be trusted to align with the west. It has to be imposed on them by force.

 

[Truthmatters]

KGB

DICTATOR


and you want to allow him to steal land from other countries?


jesus you people just don't like democracy huh

 

[Katzndogz]

prove the military occupation by hostile means didn't effect the integrity of this election.

When an American UN envoy went to Crimea to find out for himself a mob of Crimeans threw him out. The last election held in Ukraine has western UN monitors to ensure fairness and a pro Russian president was elected.

 

[Truthmatters]

Its militarily occupied by a foreign country by hostile means.


You cant trust the results or who they allow to protest under threat of force.

jesus the idiot right is now on Putins list of supporters

 

[Kondor3]

"...According to 2001 Ukrainian Census, the population of Crimea was 2,033,700.

The ethnic makeup comprised the following self-reported groups:

Russians: 58.32%;
Ukrainians: 24.32%;
Crimean Tatars: 12.1%;
Belarusians: 1.44%;
Tatars: 0.54%;
Armenians: 0.43%;
Jews: 0.22%;
Greeks: 0.15% and others..."

Crimea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

========================================

The population of the Crimea is primarily ethnic Russian.

We know how the Plebiscite (vote on secession) is going to go.

In truth, this may prove to be a fairly democratic process, although it is riding on top of the shoulders of Military Force.

The one fly in the ointment is that decades ago, the demographics of the Crimea probably looked much different; a vastly higher percentage of Tatars and Ukrainians living there 50 or 100 years ago or more, than there are now.

Until the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russians had been slaughtering and deporting ethnic Ukrainians and Tatars in the Crimea for centuries - most recently, deporting another 250,000 Tartars from the Crimea in the 1940s, well within the realm of Living Memory.

And, of course, the Russians have been transplanting their own people into the Ukraine, most notably throughout the Soviet era, in order to reach a 'tipping point' with population demographics - a state of affairs that now works well for them, as a Popular Plebiscite at this juncture in history will have an outcome favorable to Russia.

Those sympathetic with Militant Islam and with Palestinians oftentimes argue and vent against this very same sort of long-term Population Transfer and Replacement methodology, in connection with Israeli settlements and Palestinian displacements in the Holy Land.

The same thing - just different players, Tatars and Russians - has been happening in the Crimea for hundreds of years - during centuries of Czarist rule and Soviet rule and now Russian Federation rule.

What was that old saying? "There is nothing new under the sun?"

Or another favorite: "Same old shit, different day."

 

[Truthmatters]

the history is horrible.


Russia has been horrible to the ukraines people for many many years

 

[Truthmatters]

The Russians can not be allowed to just steal land from others

 

[JakeStarkey]

Combine both sides lack of historical comprehension about Ukraine and the Crimea coupled with hack partisanry, and we have a cluster pluck in American politics as folks whirl like dervishes, to no avail.

 

[Kondor3]

Combine both sides lack of historical comprehension about Ukraine and the Crimea coupled with hack partisanry, and we have a cluster pluck in American politics as folks whirl like dervishes, to no avail.

OK... what's YOUR take?

 

[martybegan]

How about we have venuseula invade and take over florida while they vote next time.

will you trust that vote?

You really are the dumbest **** on this board by a large margin.

 

[Indeependent]

Combine both sides lack of historical comprehension about Ukraine and the Crimea coupled with hack partisanry, and we have a cluster pluck in American politics as folks whirl like dervishes, to no avail.

OK... what's YOUR take?

It's difficult to have a take when we really don't know what's happening.

 

[Truthmatters]

How about we have venuseula invade and take over florida while they vote next time.

will you trust that vote?

You really are the dumbest **** on this board by a large margin.

and your the biggest partisan hunk of shit that hates facts and black presidents.

bite a snakes dick you sociopath

 

[martybegan]

How about we have venuseula invade and take over florida while they vote next time.

will you trust that vote?

You really are the dumbest **** on this board by a large margin.

and your the biggest partisan hunk of shit that hates facts and black presidents.

bite a snakes dick you sociopath

You are going to have to be more specific than that:

The sexual organs of the male snake consist of two penises known as hemipenes, which are covered with flexible spines. During sex, when a male succeeds in penetrating the female's cloaca with one of his hemipenes it will go up and the elastic spines will stop it from being dislodged easily.

 

[Katzndogz]

Ukraine being a different country and all we don't have a choice but to accept their vote. Should we go to war to prevent the people of another country from democratically exercising their right to self determination? We cannot stop Ukranians from considering themselves ethnically Russian. We cannot, without use of tyrannical force impose western policies on the unwilling population of an entire country.

 

[Kondor3]

Ukraine being a different country and all we don't have a choice but to accept their vote. Should we go to war to prevent the people of another country from democratically exercising their right to self determination? We cannot stop Ukranians from considering themselves ethnically Russian. We cannot, without use of tyrannical force impose western policies on the unwilling population of an entire country.

I'm torn between wanting to agree with you and wanting to disagree with you.

I fully agree that interference with the decisions of politically competent peoples is a disagreeable business, and that the less we indulge in that, the better, generally speaking.

I disagree that an ethnic minority within a republic has an uncontested right to secede from a republic just because they happen to be a majority in a given state or province or region.

Especially when such secession is catalyzed by military interference from the outside.

We are soon going to have a fait accompli on our hands, with the Crimea seceding from the Ukraine, and, quite possibly, being annexed outright by Russia.

The NEXT BIG Question becomes: Will this lead to the annexation of the Ukraine, in whole or in part, now that Vladimir Putin has taken the (pathetic) measure of The West in this matter?

Once this precedent has been established and tolerated internationally, at-law, I smell a division of the Ukraine into East and West Ukraine, in the not-too-distant future. As goes the Crimea, so goes the Eastern States within the Ukraine, yes?

And, if THAT happens, then the next Big Question THEN becomes, Will Russian annex WESTERN Ukraine, as well, so that they're snug-up against Poland and NATO again?

I really don't want to 'go to war' over the Crimea, but I think we should probably consider *****-slapping Russia and Uncle Vlad in some meaningful and painful way, as a warning.

But I DO think we should probably consider drawing a line in the sand, between East and West Ukraine - derived, probably, as a matter of Ethnic Majorities, I suppose, as dubious and distasteful as that sounds to our Western ears - and move to support the True Ukrainians - the citizens of West Ukraine - more manfully and solidly than we are at present.

I haven't really thought through all the implications yet, relevant to such a stance, but, at first glance, that seems like a sensible approach... sanctions re: the Crimea, more sanctions and other censure or punishments if Eastern Ukraine falls, but a line in the sand re: Western Ukraine.

Just thinkin' out loud...

 

[Truthmatters]

Putin BROKE international LAWS you fools


jesus you people have NO integrity

 

[Truthmatters]

You really are the dumbest **** on this board by a large margin.

and your the biggest partisan hunk of shit that hates facts and black presidents.

bite a snakes dick you sociopath

You are going to have to be more specific than that:

The sexual organs of the male snake consist of two penises known as hemipenes, which are covered with flexible spines. During sex, when a male succeeds in penetrating the female's cloaca with one of his hemipenes it will go up and the elastic spines will stop it from being dislodged easily.

go away troll

 

[Kondor3]

Putin BROKE international LAWS you fools

Correct.

But the sonuvabitch can point to a half-dozen similar sorties by The West in recent decades, and is playing the "Well, if YOU can, then so can I" shell game, and he's going to get away with it.

"...jesus you people have NO integrity"

Or just a little toasty (burned-out, sick-and-tired of war) after stomping on Iraq and Afghanistan over the past quarter-century, and not in the mood to contemplate another at the moment.

Hell, it's the European's backyard - and if they're cowering over this and unwilling to get into Uncle Vlad's face over this, then any 'adventure' probably wouldn't get very far or end very well anyway.

Maybe it's more like Sad Pragmatism in this instance, rather than a lack of backbone or integrity... maybe.

 

[The Professor]

Goodbye Crimea; glad I could see ya,
May you live long in poem and song.
I'd like to stay longer
And see you get stronger
But I gotta be Russian along.

- The Professor

Look, the devil made me do it, alright? Hey, it worked for Flip Wilson.

 

[martybegan]

and your the biggest partisan hunk of shit that hates facts and black presidents.

bite a snakes dick you sociopath

You are going to have to be more specific than that:

The sexual organs of the male snake consist of two penises known as hemipenes, which are covered with flexible spines. During sex, when a male succeeds in penetrating the female's cloaca with one of his hemipenes it will go up and the elastic spines will stop it from being dislodged easily.

go away troll

So how long until your next "vacation" from this board?