Anyone remember what happened after the NATO summit in Bucharest in 2008?

[berg80]

These interlocking you-protect-me-and-I'll-protect-you treaties are exactly what led to WWII and WWI.

Your familiarity with history is one of a stranger.

 

[berg80]

Every president makes errors, often multiple errors. The mistakes increased after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the West, lead by the U.S; became lazy and too comfortable. Instead of celebrating the collapse of communism we propped up an even BIGGER, less known and more resourceful communism.

Before 9/11 the focus was on China. It shifted for years after that attack.

The terrorists in their own way won, weakening the West. It is going to require a collective lift from all nations and leadership is so weak, so ideologically purchased that this is going to be very difficult. China is pulling every string possible with great success.

I invite you to watch the extremely informative series on Netflix, "Turning Point: the Bomb and the Cold War." Perhaps it will help set you straight.

 

[Doc7505]

The summit was not a shinning moment for its members. On the docket, whether to admit Ukraine and Georgia, both nations having been part of the USSR. When it came time to vote the NATO signatories decided not to include those nations fearing a military response by Russia. Largely because Putin had given every indication he saw an expanded NATO as a threat to Russia's security.

NATO Says ‘No’ to Georgia and Ukraine … For Now​

NATO Says 'No' to Georgia and Ukraine ... For Now

It’s official – NATO will not offer Georgia and Ukraine Membership Action Plans (MAPs), Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said after a two-day summit of NATO foreign ministers in Brussels. By maintaining its policy from April of eventual but not immediate membership for Georgia and...

www.atlanticcouncil.org

What happened after the vote? It got a military response anyway when Russia invaded Georgia. It was the first time since the end of WWII that a European nation had been invaded by another. What was the West's reaction?

Lonely Night in Georgia​

The Bush administration’s feckless response to the Russian invasion.​

The Bush administration's feckless response to the Russian invasion of Georgia.

It is impossible to think about the Russian assault on Georgia without feeling like a heartless bastard or a romantic fool. Should we just let...

slate.com

Bush Slams Russia's Invasion Of Georgia​

Russian tanks roared deep into Georgia on Monday, launching a new western front in the conflict, and Russian planes staged air raids that sent people screaming and fleeing for cover in some towns.

The escalating warfare brought sharp words from President Bush, who pressed Moscow to accept an immediate cease-fire and pull its troops out to avert a "dramatic and brutal escalation" of violence in the former Soviet republic.

Touring battle damage on Monday, Georgian president, Mikhail Saakashvili said he heard a Russian jet and feared he might be its target, reports CBS News correspondent Richard Roth. Bodyguards bundled him away. His people don't have that protection.

"We are basically seeing the cold-blooded, preplanned, premeditated murder of a small country," said Saakashvili.

There's a moral duty for the world to respond to the invasion Georgia, he said. But, as Roth reports, diplomacy is the only weapon the West is using.

Bush Slams Russia's Invasion Of Georgia

"Dramatic And Brutal Escalation" Condemned As Russian Troops Push Out Of Breakaway Regions, Into Western-Allied Neighbor

www.cbsnews.com

The West told Putin he was a naughty boy after the incursion in to Georgia but did little else.

AI Overview

Yes, Western countries largely continued to purchase Russian oil and gas after the 2008 invasion of Georgia. Despite the crisis causing a diplomatic rupture between Russia and the West, European countries remained dependent on Russian energy supplies and feared severe economic consequences if energy flows were disrupted.

A nuclear armed Russia with a dangerously reckless leader kept NATO from voting in Ukraine and Georgia and it kept the alliance from responding militarily as well when Putin moved in to Georgia. A lesson Putin took to mean he could do as he pleased when it came to parts of the former USSR. And he was right........until Biden coordinated a response by the US and NATO allies after the Ukraine invasion.

So, who was at fault for Russia invading a part of Georgia and maintaining control of 20% of it to this day? Putin.......PUTIN is at fault. Just as Putin is at fault for invading Crimea and Ukraine despite finger pointing to the contrary. Something to think about the next time Repubs try to lay blame at the feet of Obama and Biden for Putin's actions.

~~~~~~
Indeed, and what followed the Bucharest NATO Summit allowed Putin to annex parts of Georgia under Bush and then the Crimea under Obama?
Yet, with all that confronting Democrats for 8 years under Obama that sent Blankets and MRE's and the sporadic assistance offered by Biden, NATO is finally been shaken to up their defenses.
Meanwhile Democrat expect Trump to handle negotiations with Russia and the Ukraine, while pelleted by DSA Marxists in the U.S.A...

 

[JimH52]

Way too many inaccuracies to address. The point being NATO's decision not to include Georgia and Ukraine, not an entirely unjustified decision, emboldened Putin and contributed to where we are today. But regardless of what happened in Bucharest Putin and Putin alone bears responsibility for the invasions of neighboring countries.

Poootin's days are growing short. He desperately wants to reassemble the USSR. When trump was re-elected, he knew he had a final chance to do just that. The US is letting Eurpoe go it alone. What has trump done to punish Poootin since he came back to office. NOTHING!

Instead he rolled out a red carpet for the murdering war criminal. Take That Vlad!

 

[Doc7505]

In reading some of these posts I have to smile and chuckle at you all. In one breath the Marxist Socialists on this board are screaming for Trump to act against "Pootin" and in the next breath you claim that Trump is putting us on the verge of WW-3...
Well, which is it?

 

[DigitalDrifter]

The summit was not a shinning moment for its members. On the docket, whether to admit Ukraine and Georgia, both nations having been part of the USSR. When it came time to vote the NATO signatories decided not to include those nations fearing a military response by Russia. Largely because Putin had given every indication he saw an expanded NATO as a threat to Russia's security.

NATO Says ‘No’ to Georgia and Ukraine … For Now​

NATO Says 'No' to Georgia and Ukraine ... For Now

It’s official – NATO will not offer Georgia and Ukraine Membership Action Plans (MAPs), Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said after a two-day summit of NATO foreign ministers in Brussels. By maintaining its policy from April of eventual but not immediate membership for Georgia and...

www.atlanticcouncil.org

What happened after the vote? It got a military response anyway when Russia invaded Georgia. It was the first time since the end of WWII that a European nation had been invaded by another. What was the West's reaction?

Lonely Night in Georgia​

The Bush administration’s feckless response to the Russian invasion.​

The Bush administration's feckless response to the Russian invasion of Georgia.

It is impossible to think about the Russian assault on Georgia without feeling like a heartless bastard or a romantic fool. Should we just let...

slate.com

Bush Slams Russia's Invasion Of Georgia​

Russian tanks roared deep into Georgia on Monday, launching a new western front in the conflict, and Russian planes staged air raids that sent people screaming and fleeing for cover in some towns.

The escalating warfare brought sharp words from President Bush, who pressed Moscow to accept an immediate cease-fire and pull its troops out to avert a "dramatic and brutal escalation" of violence in the former Soviet republic.

Touring battle damage on Monday, Georgian president, Mikhail Saakashvili said he heard a Russian jet and feared he might be its target, reports CBS News correspondent Richard Roth. Bodyguards bundled him away. His people don't have that protection.

"We are basically seeing the cold-blooded, preplanned, premeditated murder of a small country," said Saakashvili.

There's a moral duty for the world to respond to the invasion Georgia, he said. But, as Roth reports, diplomacy is the only weapon the West is using.

Bush Slams Russia's Invasion Of Georgia

"Dramatic And Brutal Escalation" Condemned As Russian Troops Push Out Of Breakaway Regions, Into Western-Allied Neighbor

www.cbsnews.com

The West told Putin he was a naughty boy after the incursion in to Georgia but did little else.

AI Overview

Yes, Western countries largely continued to purchase Russian oil and gas after the 2008 invasion of Georgia. Despite the crisis causing a diplomatic rupture between Russia and the West, European countries remained dependent on Russian energy supplies and feared severe economic consequences if energy flows were disrupted.

A nuclear armed Russia with a dangerously reckless leader kept NATO from voting in Ukraine and Georgia and it kept the alliance from responding militarily as well when Putin moved in to Georgia. A lesson Putin took to mean he could do as he pleased when it came to parts of the former USSR. And he was right........until Biden coordinated a response by the US and NATO allies after the Ukraine invasion.

So, who was at fault for Russia invading a part of Georgia and maintaining control of 20% of it to this day? Putin.......PUTIN is at fault. Just as Putin is at fault for invading Crimea and Ukraine despite finger pointing to the contrary. Something to think about the next time Repubs try to lay blame at the feet of Obama and Biden for Putin's actions.

Ok, but where's the part where you blame Trump?

 

[Rogue AI]

The history forum called, they want their thread back.

 

[Seymour Flops]

After the collapse of the Soviet Union America should have solidified the lines between communism and capitalism. It should have demanded nations remain in line with America, instead you handed China trillions of dollars and 10s of thousands of factories. Think about that 60-70,000 factories left for China, each factory employs, what, 100-500 people?

Instead, the terrorists won after 9/11 because the response ended up hurting America long term as China rose (and China was VERY happy to see America bogged down in the M.E), trillions were wasted in the M.E, thousands of lives lost.

Realistically, Ukraine may never have been part of NATO so it's a difficult situation. Did we want to risk them having nukes, an unknown nation regaining its sovereignty? So many questions that would have needed to be answered and there aren't any easy answers for the time.

And . . .we're gonna be surprised by Russia being Russia? Europe being Europe?

Will we next be asked to fiegn shock at water running downhill or women being fickle?

We know what Europe is. How many more times will we call it our duty to save that political cesspool of a continent from itself?

 

[berg80]

Meanwhile Democrat expect Trump to handle negotiations with Russia and the Ukraine,

Didn't he say he was going to end the war as soon as he became prez? Since then his positions have pinballed around so often it's been hard to keep track. Support Ukraine, don't support Ukraine, call Zelenskyy a dictator, treat the war criminal Putin with great deference, and recently saying Ukraine can get all its territory back.

Trump's rhetoric on Ukraine changes, while his actions so far remain the same​

ANALYSIS: Trump said Tuesday that Ukraine was "in a position to fight and WIN all of Ukraine back in its original form" — a notable shift appearing to reflect growing frustration with Russia.

Trump's rhetoric on Ukraine changes, while his actions so far remain the same

ANALYSIS: Trump said Tuesday that Ukraine was "in a position to fight and WIN all of Ukraine back in its original form" — a notable shift appearing to reflect growing frustration with Russia.

www.nbcnews.com

TACO anyone?

 

[Doc7505]

Didn't he say he was going to end the war as soon as he became prez? Since then his positions have pinballed around so often it's been hard to keep track. Support Ukraine, don't support Ukraine, call Zelenskyy a dictator, treat the war criminal Putin with great deference, and recently saying Ukraine can get all its territory back.

Trump's rhetoric on Ukraine changes, while his actions so far remain the same​

ANALYSIS: Trump said Tuesday that Ukraine was "in a position to fight and WIN all of Ukraine back in its original form" — a notable shift appearing to reflect growing frustration with Russia.

Trump's rhetoric on Ukraine changes, while his actions so far remain the same

ANALYSIS: Trump said Tuesday that Ukraine was "in a position to fight and WIN all of Ukraine back in its original form" — a notable shift appearing to reflect growing frustration with Russia.

www.nbcnews.com

TACO anyone?

~~~~~~>
If you believe that anyone including Trump is capable of stopping a war as quickly as yo claim, I've got some beach front land in Arizona I can sell you at bargain basement prices...
One thing that Trump did stop immediately when he became president was the illegal alien crossing, something Joey B. said he couldn't do.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

You can go fight Putin yourself.

https://www.ildu.com.ua/

Amen. We've bailed Europe out of two wars.