Buy American Provision of the Stimulus Package - Good Move?

[GHook93]

Yep you think Hawley-Smoot Act, which makes me fear a trade war. HOWEVER, look closely at the buy American clause. In the cause it says that bail out companies need to buy american unless the foreign countries at basically at par with our trade practices! Meaning Europe, Canada and Brazil (and I believe Japan and South Korea) won't be effected, but China and its subsidiaries will be!

Some conservatives are saying doom and gloom of a trade war. First Canada, Europe and Brazil won't be effected, since they are exempt. Mexico can't do a thing because of NAFTA and the fact that we our their biggest exporter. They need us a heck of a lot more than we need them! China will be effected, however, with their WTO violating subsidiaries of their steel and other materials they have been conducting a trade war against us for years and once against we are there biggest customers by far. Don't expect China to do anything but bark and its about time we took the war to them! Japan and South Korea, I believe are also both exempt, but have few raw materials I see nothing from them.

I see more barking from countries on this than bite. Now if this bill eliminated imports from all countries even ones with trade practices on par with us (Canada, Europe, Japan, SK, Brazil), then I would be on board with the scare-mongers of Hannity and Rush. However, its not and its a great clause.

 

[Xenophon]

Protectionism is always dangerous and unpredictable.

 

[GHook93]

Protectionism is always dangerous and unpredictable.

Yet its been working rather fine for China against us for years. They consistently violate the WTO requirements. I agree that protectionism against say Europe, Canada, South Korea or Japan and even Brazil would be very unwise, but against China, India and Mexico, at least in this case, it would be very wise! Look China and Mexico might bark, but they will be nothing! Both are extremely reliant on the US to sell their cheap little manafuctured goods.

 

[Shogun]

Protectionism is always dangerous and unpredictable.

no more than "free markets" and its chanting faithful. When these nations start trading evenly with the US then they can start bitching about protectionism and crying about trade wars. They can't continue to use our consumer class as their product tampon if it continues to be the case that our society is hemorrhaging jobs. As long as we let capitalistas keep crying about protectionism the more these nations will ignore the staggering trade deficits they enjoy. Fuck em.


Hungry? Eat your import.

 

[sealybobo]

Yep you think Hawley-Smoot Act, which makes me fear a trade war. HOWEVER, look closely at the buy American clause. In the cause it says that bail out companies need to buy american unless the foreign countries at basically at par with our trade practices! Meaning Europe, Canada and Brazil (and I believe Japan and South Korea) won't be effected, but China and its subsidiaries will be!

Some conservatives are saying doom and gloom of a trade war. First Canada, Europe and Brazil won't be effected, since they are exempt. Mexico can't do a thing because of NAFTA and the fact that we our their biggest exporter. They need us a heck of a lot more than we need them! China will be effected, however, with their WTO violating subsidiaries of their steel and other materials they have been conducting a trade war against us for years and once against we are there biggest customers by far. Don't expect China to do anything but bark and its about time we took the war to them! Japan and South Korea, I believe are also both exempt, but have few raw materials I see nothing from them.

I see more barking from countries on this than bite. Now if this bill eliminated imports from all countries even ones with trade practices on par with us (Canada, Europe, Japan, SK, Brazil), then I would be on board with the scare-mongers of Hannity and Rush. However, its not and its a great clause.

What about all the money we borrowed from them to pay for Iraq? I actually hope we stop borrowing from them and hope we actually pay them back to get them off our books, but I also hear from Republicans that China can "take us down" if they call in all their loans.

Saudi Arabia too.

But you know what I would say to them? You'll get your money asap, but not a moment sooner. We can't pay you back in one day if it would take down our economy. But we will pay you back. Then all you do is print up some money and give it to them. Redeemable only if spent in America. LOL.

 

[editec]

If the USA gets into a trade war?

MOST Americans win.

Hell we've been getting out asses handed to us in this UNDECLARED trade war we've been losing for the last thirty years!

However, if you own stock in, or work for GE, or some companies which sell high tech arms (for example) you might reasonable disagree.

We don't need to declare war on any trading nation, we merely need to see to it that they are not dumping on our markets and we need to insure that they are not imposing tariffs by any other name (think VAT taxing) on American goods coming into their lands.

 

[GHook93]

If the USA gets into a trade war?

MOST Americans win.

BULL SHIT! Most Americans utterly lose! In fact the whole world loses! Price go up and people lose jobs! Hawley-Smoot has taught you absolutely nothing!

Hell we've been getting out asses handed to us in this UNDECLARED trade war we've been losing for the last thirty years!

Maybe a trade war by China and Mexico, but we still export a ton of products and services to many countries specifically countries like Canada and in Europe. A trade war with them would be horrendous!

However, if you own stock in, or work for GE, or some companies which sell high tech arms (for example) you might reasonable disagree.

No if you have stock in America you would disagree!

We don't need to declare war on any trading nation, we merely need to see to it that they are not dumping on our markets and we need to insure that they are not imposing tariffs by any other name (think VAT taxing) on American goods coming into their lands.

Exactly what the provision does

 

[sealybobo]

If the USA gets into a trade war?

MOST Americans win.

BULL SHIT! Most Americans utterly lose! In fact the whole world loses! Price go up and people lose jobs! Hawley-Smoot has taught you absolutely nothing!

Hell we've been getting out asses handed to us in this UNDECLARED trade war we've been losing for the last thirty years!

Maybe a trade war by China and Mexico, but we still export a ton of products and services to many countries specifically countries like Canada and in Europe. A trade war with them would be horrendous!

However, if you own stock in, or work for GE, or some companies which sell high tech arms (for example) you might reasonable disagree.

No if you have stock in America you would disagree!

We don't need to declare war on any trading nation, we merely need to see to it that they are not dumping on our markets and we need to insure that they are not imposing tariffs by any other name (think VAT taxing) on American goods coming into their lands.

Exactly what the provision does

I heard the other day that Republicans are spinning this Hawley-Smoot thing. Is this in reference to the Great Depression. Apparently, it didn't cause the Great Depression like you are suggesting. It was Republican policies. I'll try to find the op ed.

But my guess is that this person is wrong.

For one, I'm done with worrying about more expensive products. Fuck cheap chinese products. What is the cost for you to save a buck sir? Stop selling out your own country for cheap goods and services.

 

[GHook93]

H-S didn't cause the great depression it was a knee-jerk reaction to the GP. However, nearly ALL economic historian credit the H-S with making he GP worse and as being a horrendous and counter-productive policy!

It was Republican policies. I'll try to find the op ed.

Going into Vietnam was a Democratic party decision, do that mean you support that decision? NAFTA was a Clinton adm act, does that mean all Democrats should support that act? What is your point?

But my guess is that this person is wrong.

You are correct.

For one, I'm done with worrying about more expensive products. Fuck cheap chinese products. What is the cost for you to save a buck sir? Stop selling out your own country for cheap goods and services.

Its not the products in the store that you should worry about!

 

[midcan5]

I think buying American should come naturally and products should clearly be marked made in the USA. I am even willing to have a tier system and pay more for something that helps my neighbor and myself. There are enough cheapskates that imported cheap junk in walmart will always have a buyer.

Taming the Savage Market

 

[sealybobo]

If the USA gets into a trade war?

MOST Americans win.

BULL SHIT! Most Americans utterly lose! In fact the whole world loses! Price go up and people lose jobs! Hawley-Smoot has taught you absolutely nothing!

Hell we've been getting out asses handed to us in this UNDECLARED trade war we've been losing for the last thirty years!

Maybe a trade war by China and Mexico, but we still export a ton of products and services to many countries specifically countries like Canada and in Europe. A trade war with them would be horrendous!

However, if you own stock in, or work for GE, or some companies which sell high tech arms (for example) you might reasonable disagree.

No if you have stock in America you would disagree!

We don't need to declare war on any trading nation, we merely need to see to it that they are not dumping on our markets and we need to insure that they are not imposing tariffs by any other name (think VAT taxing) on American goods coming into their lands.

Exactly what the provision does

Here is your Smoot Hartley:

When conservatives rail in the media of the dangers of "returning to Smoot Hawley, which created the Great Depression," all they do is reveal their ignorance of economics and history. The Smoot-Hawley tariff legislation, which increased taxes on some imported goods by a third to two-thirds to protect American industries, was signed into law on June 17, 1930, well into the Great Depression. In the following two years, international trade dropped from 6 percent of GNP to roughly 2 percent of GNP (between 1930 and 1932), but most of that was the result of the depression going worldwide, not Smoot-Hawley. The main result of Smoot-Hawley was that American businesses now had strong financial incentives to do business with other American companies, rather than bring in products made with cheaper foreign labor: Americans started trading with other Americans.

Smoot-Hawley "protectionist" legislation did not cause the Great Depression, and while it may have had a slight short-term negative effect on the economy ("1.4 percent at most" according to many historians) its long-term effect was to bring American jobs back to America.

ThomHartmann.com - Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

 

[mash107]

If the USA gets into a trade war?

MOST Americans win.

Hell we've been getting out asses handed to us in this UNDECLARED trade war we've been losing for the last thirty years!

However, if you own stock in, or work for GE, or some companies which sell high tech arms (for example) you might reasonable disagree.

We don't need to declare war on any trading nation, we merely need to see to it that they are not dumping on our markets and we need to insure that they are not imposing tariffs by any other name (think VAT taxing) on American goods coming into their lands.

I fail how to see paying at least 10 times or more for groceries and other staples would benefit anyone. Well, only the rich stockholders in those markets that don't have to deal with global competition might benefit, but the rest of Americans get screwed, and hard. As Henry George once said, "protectionists want to do to their own country during peacetime what the country’s enemies would wish to do to it during wartime—that is, close its borders to imports."

 

[Xenophon]

Protectionism is always dangerous and unpredictable.

Yet its been working rather fine for China against us for years. They consistently violate the WTO requirements. I agree that protectionism against say Europe, Canada, South Korea or Japan and even Brazil would be very unwise, but against China, India and Mexico, at least in this case, it would be very wise! Look China and Mexico might bark, but they will be nothing! Both are extremely reliant on the US to sell their cheap little manafuctured goods.

We owe China an enormous amount of money, press them and they will demand payment.