What Putin Wants from the Ukraine Conflict

[Contumacious]

Link?

Kennedy and Khrushchev's Peaceful Resolution of the Cuban Missile Crisis

Sixty-two years ago, President John F.

headtopics.com

.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Kennedy and Khrushchev's Peaceful Resolution of the Cuban Missile Crisis

Sixty-two years ago, President John F.

headtopics.com

.

Thanks.

That doesn't mention NATO staying away from Russia's borders.

 

[Rigby5]

Basically, Russia gives up nothing and gets everything
Ukraine gives up everything and gets nothing

The leadership in control of Kyiv now is not historically Ukrainian, but the descendants of the Polish invasion that was defeated around 1700.
Real Ukrainians are ethnic Russian, and Kyiv used to be the capital of Russia.

 

[Rigby5]

Russians in Donbas should move to Russia.

The Ukraine is historically Russian, and the ethnic Polish invaders whose descendants have taken over Kyiv, should go back to Poland.
People like Vindman are of Polish descent and do not belong in the Ukraine at all.

 

[Rigby5]

Thanks.

That doesn't mention NATO staying away from Russia's borders.

{...
U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University (http://nsarchive.gwu.edu).

The documents show that multiple national leaders were considering and rejecting Central and Eastern European membership in NATO as of early 1990 and through 1991, that discussions of NATO in the context of German unification negotiations in 1990 were not at all narrowly limited to the status of East German territory, and that subsequent Soviet and Russian complaints about being misled about NATO expansion were founded in written contemporaneous memcons and telcons at the highest levels.

The documents reinforce former CIA Director Robert Gates’s criticism of “pressing ahead with expansion of NATO eastward [in the 1990s], when Gorbachev and others were led to believe that wouldn’t happen.”[1] The key phrase, buttressed by the documents, is “led to believe.”

President George H.W. Bush had assured Gorbachev during the Malta summit in December 1989 that the U.S. would not take advantage (“I have not jumped up and down on the Berlin Wall”) of the revolutions in Eastern Europe to harm Soviet interests; but neither Bush nor Gorbachev at that point (or for that matter, West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl) expected so soon the collapse of East Germany or the speed of German unification.[2]

The first concrete assurances by Western leaders on NATO began on January 31, 1990, when West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher opened the bidding with a major public speech at Tutzing, in Bavaria, on German unification. The U.S. Embassy in Bonn (see Document 1) informed Washington that Genscher made clear “that the changes in Eastern Europe and the German unification process must not lead to an ‘impairment of Soviet security interests.’ Therefore, NATO should rule out an ‘expansion of its territory towards the east, i.e. moving it closer to the Soviet borders.’” The Bonn cable also noted Genscher’s proposal to leave the East German territory out of NATO military structures even in a unified Germany in NATO.[3] ...
...}
Documents show Gorbachev was assured US wouldn't expand NATO into Central and Eastern Europe

There are multiple documents ensuring no eastern advancement of NATO.
But none are necessary.
Putting nukes on some's border is in itself an act of war, like the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, which we started by putting nukes in Turkey.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Ukraine is historically Russian, and the ethnic Polish invaders whose descendants have taken over Kyiv, should go back to Poland.
People like Vindman are of Polish descent and do not belong in the Ukraine at all.

How many regions in Russia are "historically non-Russian"?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

{...
U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University (http://nsarchive.gwu.edu).

The documents show that multiple national leaders were considering and rejecting Central and Eastern European membership in NATO as of early 1990 and through 1991, that discussions of NATO in the context of German unification negotiations in 1990 were not at all narrowly limited to the status of East German territory, and that subsequent Soviet and Russian complaints about being misled about NATO expansion were founded in written contemporaneous memcons and telcons at the highest levels.

The documents reinforce former CIA Director Robert Gates’s criticism of “pressing ahead with expansion of NATO eastward [in the 1990s], when Gorbachev and others were led to believe that wouldn’t happen.”[1] The key phrase, buttressed by the documents, is “led to believe.”

President George H.W. Bush had assured Gorbachev during the Malta summit in December 1989 that the U.S. would not take advantage (“I have not jumped up and down on the Berlin Wall”) of the revolutions in Eastern Europe to harm Soviet interests; but neither Bush nor Gorbachev at that point (or for that matter, West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl) expected so soon the collapse of East Germany or the speed of German unification.[2]

The first concrete assurances by Western leaders on NATO began on January 31, 1990, when West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher opened the bidding with a major public speech at Tutzing, in Bavaria, on German unification. The U.S. Embassy in Bonn (see Document 1) informed Washington that Genscher made clear “that the changes in Eastern Europe and the German unification process must not lead to an ‘impairment of Soviet security interests.’ Therefore, NATO should rule out an ‘expansion of its territory towards the east, i.e. moving it closer to the Soviet borders.’” The Bonn cable also noted Genscher’s proposal to leave the East German territory out of NATO military structures even in a unified Germany in NATO.[3] ...
...}
Documents show Gorbachev was assured US wouldn't expand NATO into Central and Eastern Europe

There are multiple documents ensuring no eastern advancement of NATO.
But none are necessary.
Putting nukes on some's border is in itself an act of war, like the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, which we started by putting nukes in Turkey.

Documents? Like Treaties? Or like Post-it Notes?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Putting nukes on some's border is in itself an act of war, like the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, which we started by putting nukes in Turkey.

Ukraine already had nukes on Russia's border.

 

[Soupnazi630]

{...
U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University (http://nsarchive.gwu.edu).

The documents show that multiple national leaders were considering and rejecting Central and Eastern European membership in NATO as of early 1990 and through 1991, that discussions of NATO in the context of German unification negotiations in 1990 were not at all narrowly limited to the status of East German territory, and that subsequent Soviet and Russian complaints about being misled about NATO expansion were founded in written contemporaneous memcons and telcons at the highest levels.

The documents reinforce former CIA Director Robert Gates’s criticism of “pressing ahead with expansion of NATO eastward [in the 1990s], when Gorbachev and others were led to believe that wouldn’t happen.”[1] The key phrase, buttressed by the documents, is “led to believe.”

President George H.W. Bush had assured Gorbachev during the Malta summit in December 1989 that the U.S. would not take advantage (“I have not jumped up and down on the Berlin Wall”) of the revolutions in Eastern Europe to harm Soviet interests; but neither Bush nor Gorbachev at that point (or for that matter, West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl) expected so soon the collapse of East Germany or the speed of German unification.[2]

The first concrete assurances by Western leaders on NATO began on January 31, 1990, when West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher opened the bidding with a major public speech at Tutzing, in Bavaria, on German unification. The U.S. Embassy in Bonn (see Document 1) informed Washington that Genscher made clear “that the changes in Eastern Europe and the German unification process must not lead to an ‘impairment of Soviet security interests.’ Therefore, NATO should rule out an ‘expansion of its territory towards the east, i.e. moving it closer to the Soviet borders.’” The Bonn cable also noted Genscher’s proposal to leave the East German territory out of NATO military structures even in a unified Germany in NATO.[3] ...
...}
Documents show Gorbachev was assured US wouldn't expand NATO into Central and Eastern Europe

There are multiple documents ensuring no eastern advancement of NATO.
But none are necessary.
Putting nukes on some's border is in itself an act of war, like the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, which we started by putting nukes in Turkey.

No one is putting nukes in Ukraine DUMBASS

 

[rightwinger]

The leadership in control of Kyiv now is not historically Ukrainian, but the descendants of the Polish invasion that was defeated around 1700.
Real Ukrainians are ethnic Russian, and Kyiv used to be the capital of Russia.

No justification for invading

 

[AZrailwhale]

Barack Hussein Obama , The CIA , Victoria Nuland created the conflict in Ukraine when Obama deposed Ukraine's duly elected President Viktor Yanukovych on February 2014.

Since then Putin has demanded that Ukraine 's status as a neutral buffer zone be restored. He also demanded that CIA Puppet Zelenskyy stop slaughtering Ethnic Russians East of the Dnipro River,

Wrong, the people and legislature of Ukraine impeached the pro-Russian president when he attempted to block closer ties with Western Europe in compliance with his instructions from Moscow.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Where does that say NATO agrees not to be on Russia's border?

NATO has always been on the USSR’s borders. Putin’s conduct has made the situation worse with Finland and Sweden joining NATO.

 

[Contumacious]

Wrong, the people and legislature of Ukraine impeached the pro-Russian president when he attempted to block closer ties with Western Europe in compliance with his instructions from Moscow.

PURE UNADULTERATED BULLSHIT

The Obama-Biden regime pumped $5,000,000,000.00 into Ukraine and started a cascade which began with the Maidan Revolution, the removal of Ukraines's duly elected President Viktor Yanukovych and the conversion of Ukraine into a CIA Colony with BioWarfare Labs,

The Ukraine Hoax - Michael Caputo cracks the case... - Revolver News

 

[Zavulon]

Ukraine already had nukes on Russia's border.

Not yet, as far as I know. And to not allow them we are fighting now.

 

[Zavulon]

NATO has always been on the USSR’s borders. Putin’s conduct has made the situation worse with Finland and Sweden joining NATO.

But there is the difference between NATO in West Germany, NATO in East Germany, NATO in Poland, NATO in Baltic states and NATO in Ukraine.
Appeasement didn't work. That's why, I believe, we should push NATO back to 1997 borders or, more reliable solution - eliminate it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not yet, as far as I know. And to not allow them we are fighting now.

Not yet, as far as I know.

Soviet nukes weren't in Ukraine before the USSR ended up on the ash heap of history?

And to not allow them we are fighting now.

What's taking so long?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But there is the difference between NATO in West Germany, NATO in East Germany, NATO in Poland, NATO in Baltic states and NATO in Ukraine.
Appeasement didn't work. That's why, I believe, we should push NATO back to 1997 borders or, more reliable solution - eliminate it.

The USSR appeased NATO? How? By collapsing? LOL!
As soon as Russia becomes a peaceful, real democracy, we can discuss disbanding NATO.

 

[rightwinger]

The USSR appeased NATO? How? By collapsing? LOL!
As soon as Russia becomes a peaceful, real democracy, we can discuss disbanding NATO.

NATO is needed more today than ever before

Ask Sweden and Finland

 

[Zavulon]

Not yet, as far as I know.

Soviet nukes weren't in Ukraine before the USSR ended up on the ash heap of history?

They were. And they were returned back to Russia.

And to not allow them we are fighting now.

What's taking so long?

NATO's support. Now were are de-arming and de-nazificating not only Ukraine, but NATO countries either. And it's going pretty good. Slowly, but effectively.

 

[Zavulon]

The USSR appeased NATO? How? By collapsing? LOL!

Russia have been appeasing NATO, but not starting the war back in 1999.

As soon as Russia becomes a peaceful, real democracy, we can discuss disbanding NATO.

I prefer to discuss disbanding NATO (and the new architecture of the worlds safety) after your military defeat.