But...they have gun control in New Zealand...right? Then how did this guy shoot two police officers?

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2aguy

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Police officers shot in New Zealand...where we are told they have strict gun control laws...

I believe all countries have gun laws.

Laws are designed to reduce incidents, they don't eliminate. The law is not to sell cigarettes to someone under the age of 18, kids still smoke.

That isn't what we are sold....we are told that banning and confiscating guns reduces gun crime...that isn't the case...

Can you explain how it is that more Americans own and carry guns, and our gun crime rate went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%?

That is over a 27 year time period...with an vast increase in gun ownership.

Normal gun owners do not create gun crime...democrat party policies here in the states create gun crime.......
 
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Police officers shot in New Zealand...where we are told they have strict gun control laws...

I believe all countries have gun laws.

Laws are designed to reduce incidents, they don't eliminate. The law is not to sell cigarettes to someone under the age of 18, kids still smoke.

That isn't what we are sold....we are told that banning and confiscating guns reduces gun crime...that isn't the case...

Can you explain how it is that more Americans own and carry guns, and our gun crime rate went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%?

That is over a 27 year time period...with an vast increase in gun ownership.

Normal gun owners do not create gun crime...democrat party policies here in the states create gun crime.......
To my knowledge, no country has banned guns. All countries have gun laws, some are less restricted than others, hence why levels of gun crime varies. For example, each year you will hear a few hundred gun incidents in Australia, New Zealand, Australia etc.. but in America, those few hundred is on a weekend.

Going by your logic, more guns = more safety, so that means America is the most safest, gun free crime country.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Police officers shot in New Zealand...where we are told they have strict gun control laws...

I believe all countries have gun laws.

Laws are designed to reduce incidents, they don't eliminate. The law is not to sell cigarettes to someone under the age of 18, kids still smoke.

That isn't what we are sold....we are told that banning and confiscating guns reduces gun crime...that isn't the case...

Can you explain how it is that more Americans own and carry guns, and our gun crime rate went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%?

That is over a 27 year time period...with an vast increase in gun ownership.

Normal gun owners do not create gun crime...democrat party policies here in the states create gun crime.......
To my knowledge, no country has banned guns. All countries have gun laws, some are less restricted than others, hence why levels of gun crime varies. For example, each year you will hear a few hundred gun incidents in Australia, New Zealand, Australia etc.. but in America, those few hundred is on a weekend.

Going by your logic, more guns = more safety, so that means America is the most safest, gun free crime country.

Yes...you didn't explain how, under your theory, America went through a period of more Americans buying and actually carrying guns....but our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%....and our violent crime rate went down 72%.....

You did not explain that.

Our problem isn't guns.....our problem, which you guys refuse to understand, is that the democrat party in this country has policies in the cities they control where they constantly release violent, repeat gun offenders, over and over again...these criminals commit 95% of our gun crime...and if the democrats simply stopped releasing them, we would drop our gun crime rate by about 95%........

As America shows.......gun ownership, and actually the carrying of guns for self defense, by normal Americans...........does not increase the gun crime rate.......

Again, you can't explain that with how you feel about guns.......

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%


Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.



You can't explain this either...


Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.



One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.


-----

Now four years later, Maine has been named the safest state in the nation according to US News and World Report’s public safety rankings, which measures the fifty states based on crime data.



Ranking as the top safest state for violent crime and fourth for property crime, Maine edges out another New England state, Vermont, for the top spot. Of note, Vermont also is a “Constitutional Carry” state. New Hampshire ranks third in the national rankings, giving New England all three of the top spots in the nation.

In 2018, Maine was edged out by Vermont in the same “safest states” ranking, but declared the best state overall in the broader “Crime and Corrections” category.

In 2017, using a different methodology, Maine was ranked second among the fifty states in the “Crime and Corrections” category and also second in the categories used to rank the “safest states.”

The U.S. News and World Report “Best States” rankings are built in partnership with McKinsey & Company, a firm that works closely with state leaders around the nation.

Maine has also ranked at the top of other state rankings. WalletHub.com recently ranked Maine second in “Personal and Residential Safety” among the fifty states, and third overall.

=============


You also can't explain this.....


Bolsonaro's Brazil, More Legal Guns, Homicide Rates Down Precipitously

In December, 2018, in an article published by the Wall Street Journal, this pronouncement was made. From the wsj.com:
Now, Brazil is set to embark on an experiment that will determine what happens when you loosen gun restrictions in a country battling an overpowering wave of gun crime.
Homicides in Brazil were at historic highs in 2017. They dropped a bit in 2018, as candidate Bolsonaro ran on reform of the gun laws to allow self defense, and reform of the law to get tough on crime. The homicide numbers dropped from 59,000 in 2017, to 51,000 in 2018. President Bolsonaro was elected in October of 2018.

After taking office on 1 January, 2019, President Bolsonaro issued his first decree reforming some of Brazil's extreme gun laws on 15 January, 2019. The drop in Brazil's homicide rate accelerated.
-------

Early in the Bolsonaro presidency, a Brazilian lawyer prediceted the homicide rate would drop. From ammoland.com:

César Mello, asked that I include information that early reports are showing a 25% drop in Brazil's homicide rate, in the first quarter of 2019. If this trend continues, 16,000 lives will have been saved in the first year of President Bolsonaro's time in office.
The rate reduction was not quite that high. Only 10,000 lives were saved. From wtop.com:
Brazil had 41,635 killings in 2019, down 19% from the prior year and the least number of homicides since 2007, when the so-called Violence Monitor index was launched. It is a partnership between the non-profit Brazilian Forum of Public Security, the University of Sao Paulo’s Center for the Study of Violence, and news website G1, which published the data Friday.
When translated to homicide rates, the rate dropped 17% in 2018, then 23% more in 2019. The population of Brazil in 2019 was 210 million. The rate of homicides per 100,000 was 19.83. That is less than 2/3 of the homicide rate in 2017, which was 30.8.
 
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Police officers shot in New Zealand...where we are told they have strict gun control laws...

I believe all countries have gun laws.

Laws are designed to reduce incidents, they don't eliminate. The law is not to sell cigarettes to someone under the age of 18, kids still smoke.

That isn't what we are sold....we are told that banning and confiscating guns reduces gun crime...that isn't the case...

Can you explain how it is that more Americans own and carry guns, and our gun crime rate went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%?

That is over a 27 year time period...with an vast increase in gun ownership.

Normal gun owners do not create gun crime...democrat party policies here in the states create gun crime.......
To my knowledge, no country has banned guns. All countries have gun laws, some are less restricted than others, hence why levels of gun crime varies. For example, each year you will hear a few hundred gun incidents in Australia, New Zealand, Australia etc.. but in America, those few hundred is on a weekend.

Going by your logic, more guns = more safety, so that means America is the most safest, gun free crime country.

Yes...you didn't explain how, under your theory, America went through a period of more Americans buying and actually carrying guns....but our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%....and our violent crime rate went down 72%.....

You did not explain that.

Our problem isn't guns.....our problem, which you guys refuse to understand, is that the democrat party in this country has policies in the cities they control where they constantly release violent, repeat gun offenders, over and over again...these criminals commit 95% of our gun crime...and if the democrats simply stopped releasing them, we would drop our gun crime rate by about 95%........

As America shows.......gun ownership, and actually the carrying of guns for self defense, by normal Americans...........does not increase the gun crime rate.......

Again, you can't explain that with how you feel about guns.......

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%


Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.



You can't explain this either...


Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.



One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.


-----

Now four years later, Maine has been named the safest state in the nation according to US News and World Report’s public safety rankings, which measures the fifty states based on crime data.



Ranking as the top safest state for violent crime and fourth for property crime, Maine edges out another New England state, Vermont, for the top spot. Of note, Vermont also is a “Constitutional Carry” state. New Hampshire ranks third in the national rankings, giving New England all three of the top spots in the nation.

In 2018, Maine was edged out by Vermont in the same “safest states” ranking, but declared the best state overall in the broader “Crime and Corrections” category.

In 2017, using a different methodology, Maine was ranked second among the fifty states in the “Crime and Corrections” category and also second in the categories used to rank the “safest states.”

The U.S. News and World Report “Best States” rankings are built in partnership with McKinsey & Company, a firm that works closely with state leaders around the nation.

Maine has also ranked at the top of other state rankings. WalletHub.com recently ranked Maine second in “Personal and Residential Safety” among the fifty states, and third overall.

=============


You also can't explain this.....


Bolsonaro's Brazil, More Legal Guns, Homicide Rates Down Precipitously

In December, 2018, in an article published by the Wall Street Journal, this pronouncement was made. From the wsj.com:
Now, Brazil is set to embark on an experiment that will determine what happens when you loosen gun restrictions in a country battling an overpowering wave of gun crime.
Homicides in Brazil were at historic highs in 2017. They dropped a bit in 2018, as candidate Bolsonaro ran on reform of the gun laws to allow self defense, and reform of the law to get tough on crime. The homicide numbers dropped from 59,000 in 2017, to 51,000 in 2018. President Bolsonaro was elected in October of 2018.

After taking office on 1 January, 2019, President Bolsonaro issued his first decree reforming some of Brazil's extreme gun laws on 15 January, 2019. The drop in Brazil's homicide rate accelerated.
-------

Early in the Bolsonaro presidency, a Brazilian lawyer prediceted the homicide rate would drop. From ammoland.com:

César Mello, asked that I include information that early reports are showing a 25% drop in Brazil's homicide rate, in the first quarter of 2019. If this trend continues, 16,000 lives will have been saved in the first year of President Bolsonaro's time in office.
The rate reduction was not quite that high. Only 10,000 lives were saved. From wtop.com:
Brazil had 41,635 killings in 2019, down 19% from the prior year and the least number of homicides since 2007, when the so-called Violence Monitor index was launched. It is a partnership between the non-profit Brazilian Forum of Public Security, the University of Sao Paulo’s Center for the Study of Violence, and news website G1, which published the data Friday.
When translated to homicide rates, the rate dropped 17% in 2018, then 23% more in 2019. The population of Brazil in 2019 was 210 million. The rate of homicides per 100,000 was 19.83. That is less than 2/3 of the homicide rate in 2017, which was 30.8.
After the word, Yes", I quit reading.

I don't bother reading copied and pasted novels.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Police officers shot in New Zealand...where we are told they have strict gun control laws...

I believe all countries have gun laws.

Laws are designed to reduce incidents, they don't eliminate. The law is not to sell cigarettes to someone under the age of 18, kids still smoke.

That isn't what we are sold....we are told that banning and confiscating guns reduces gun crime...that isn't the case...

Can you explain how it is that more Americans own and carry guns, and our gun crime rate went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%?

That is over a 27 year time period...with an vast increase in gun ownership.

Normal gun owners do not create gun crime...democrat party policies here in the states create gun crime.......
To my knowledge, no country has banned guns. All countries have gun laws, some are less restricted than others, hence why levels of gun crime varies. For example, each year you will hear a few hundred gun incidents in Australia, New Zealand, Australia etc.. but in America, those few hundred is on a weekend.

Going by your logic, more guns = more safety, so that means America is the most safest, gun free crime country.

Yes...you didn't explain how, under your theory, America went through a period of more Americans buying and actually carrying guns....but our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%....and our violent crime rate went down 72%.....

You did not explain that.

Our problem isn't guns.....our problem, which you guys refuse to understand, is that the democrat party in this country has policies in the cities they control where they constantly release violent, repeat gun offenders, over and over again...these criminals commit 95% of our gun crime...and if the democrats simply stopped releasing them, we would drop our gun crime rate by about 95%........

As America shows.......gun ownership, and actually the carrying of guns for self defense, by normal Americans...........does not increase the gun crime rate.......

Again, you can't explain that with how you feel about guns.......

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%


Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.



You can't explain this either...


Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.



One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.


-----

Now four years later, Maine has been named the safest state in the nation according to US News and World Report’s public safety rankings, which measures the fifty states based on crime data.



Ranking as the top safest state for violent crime and fourth for property crime, Maine edges out another New England state, Vermont, for the top spot. Of note, Vermont also is a “Constitutional Carry” state. New Hampshire ranks third in the national rankings, giving New England all three of the top spots in the nation.

In 2018, Maine was edged out by Vermont in the same “safest states” ranking, but declared the best state overall in the broader “Crime and Corrections” category.

In 2017, using a different methodology, Maine was ranked second among the fifty states in the “Crime and Corrections” category and also second in the categories used to rank the “safest states.”

The U.S. News and World Report “Best States” rankings are built in partnership with McKinsey & Company, a firm that works closely with state leaders around the nation.

Maine has also ranked at the top of other state rankings. WalletHub.com recently ranked Maine second in “Personal and Residential Safety” among the fifty states, and third overall.

=============


You also can't explain this.....


Bolsonaro's Brazil, More Legal Guns, Homicide Rates Down Precipitously

In December, 2018, in an article published by the Wall Street Journal, this pronouncement was made. From the wsj.com:
Now, Brazil is set to embark on an experiment that will determine what happens when you loosen gun restrictions in a country battling an overpowering wave of gun crime.
Homicides in Brazil were at historic highs in 2017. They dropped a bit in 2018, as candidate Bolsonaro ran on reform of the gun laws to allow self defense, and reform of the law to get tough on crime. The homicide numbers dropped from 59,000 in 2017, to 51,000 in 2018. President Bolsonaro was elected in October of 2018.

After taking office on 1 January, 2019, President Bolsonaro issued his first decree reforming some of Brazil's extreme gun laws on 15 January, 2019. The drop in Brazil's homicide rate accelerated.
-------

Early in the Bolsonaro presidency, a Brazilian lawyer prediceted the homicide rate would drop. From ammoland.com:

César Mello, asked that I include information that early reports are showing a 25% drop in Brazil's homicide rate, in the first quarter of 2019. If this trend continues, 16,000 lives will have been saved in the first year of President Bolsonaro's time in office.
The rate reduction was not quite that high. Only 10,000 lives were saved. From wtop.com:
Brazil had 41,635 killings in 2019, down 19% from the prior year and the least number of homicides since 2007, when the so-called Violence Monitor index was launched. It is a partnership between the non-profit Brazilian Forum of Public Security, the University of Sao Paulo’s Center for the Study of Violence, and news website G1, which published the data Friday.
When translated to homicide rates, the rate dropped 17% in 2018, then 23% more in 2019. The population of Brazil in 2019 was 210 million. The rate of homicides per 100,000 was 19.83. That is less than 2/3 of the homicide rate in 2017, which was 30.8.
After the word, Yes", I quit reading.

I don't bother reading copied and pasted novels.

Yes......because you once again refuse to explain how it is that as more Americans over the last 27 years own and actually carry guns....over 18.2 million Americans.....our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%, our violent crime rate went down 72%...

There......those are the facts, and it is short enough for you to read.......

And you still can't explain it.....

This is why we have gun crime.....a criminal, arrested for pointing a gun at someone, released from jail and 3 hours later using another illegal gun to shoot and kill a little girl...

A normal gun owners did not do this....a guy with a long criminal record did this after being released from jail.........if he had been kept locked up, she would be alive...

Our problem is about criminals, not guns in the hands of normal people...

He had been picked up on unrelated charges and then released from jail three hours prior to the incident. The charges weren’t so unrelated, however, in the sense that he was first arrested for assault by pointing a gun at someone.

 
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Messages
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Police officers shot in New Zealand...where we are told they have strict gun control laws...

I believe all countries have gun laws.

Laws are designed to reduce incidents, they don't eliminate. The law is not to sell cigarettes to someone under the age of 18, kids still smoke.

That isn't what we are sold....we are told that banning and confiscating guns reduces gun crime...that isn't the case...

Can you explain how it is that more Americans own and carry guns, and our gun crime rate went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%?

That is over a 27 year time period...with an vast increase in gun ownership.

Normal gun owners do not create gun crime...democrat party policies here in the states create gun crime.......
To my knowledge, no country has banned guns. All countries have gun laws, some are less restricted than others, hence why levels of gun crime varies. For example, each year you will hear a few hundred gun incidents in Australia, New Zealand, Australia etc.. but in America, those few hundred is on a weekend.

Going by your logic, more guns = more safety, so that means America is the most safest, gun free crime country.

Yes...you didn't explain how, under your theory, America went through a period of more Americans buying and actually carrying guns....but our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%....and our violent crime rate went down 72%.....

You did not explain that.

Our problem isn't guns.....our problem, which you guys refuse to understand, is that the democrat party in this country has policies in the cities they control where they constantly release violent, repeat gun offenders, over and over again...these criminals commit 95% of our gun crime...and if the democrats simply stopped releasing them, we would drop our gun crime rate by about 95%........

As America shows.......gun ownership, and actually the carrying of guns for self defense, by normal Americans...........does not increase the gun crime rate.......

Again, you can't explain that with how you feel about guns.......

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%


Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.



You can't explain this either...


Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.



One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.


-----

Now four years later, Maine has been named the safest state in the nation according to US News and World Report’s public safety rankings, which measures the fifty states based on crime data.



Ranking as the top safest state for violent crime and fourth for property crime, Maine edges out another New England state, Vermont, for the top spot. Of note, Vermont also is a “Constitutional Carry” state. New Hampshire ranks third in the national rankings, giving New England all three of the top spots in the nation.

In 2018, Maine was edged out by Vermont in the same “safest states” ranking, but declared the best state overall in the broader “Crime and Corrections” category.

In 2017, using a different methodology, Maine was ranked second among the fifty states in the “Crime and Corrections” category and also second in the categories used to rank the “safest states.”

The U.S. News and World Report “Best States” rankings are built in partnership with McKinsey & Company, a firm that works closely with state leaders around the nation.

Maine has also ranked at the top of other state rankings. WalletHub.com recently ranked Maine second in “Personal and Residential Safety” among the fifty states, and third overall.

=============


You also can't explain this.....


Bolsonaro's Brazil, More Legal Guns, Homicide Rates Down Precipitously

In December, 2018, in an article published by the Wall Street Journal, this pronouncement was made. From the wsj.com:
Now, Brazil is set to embark on an experiment that will determine what happens when you loosen gun restrictions in a country battling an overpowering wave of gun crime.
Homicides in Brazil were at historic highs in 2017. They dropped a bit in 2018, as candidate Bolsonaro ran on reform of the gun laws to allow self defense, and reform of the law to get tough on crime. The homicide numbers dropped from 59,000 in 2017, to 51,000 in 2018. President Bolsonaro was elected in October of 2018.

After taking office on 1 January, 2019, President Bolsonaro issued his first decree reforming some of Brazil's extreme gun laws on 15 January, 2019. The drop in Brazil's homicide rate accelerated.
-------

Early in the Bolsonaro presidency, a Brazilian lawyer prediceted the homicide rate would drop. From ammoland.com:

César Mello, asked that I include information that early reports are showing a 25% drop in Brazil's homicide rate, in the first quarter of 2019. If this trend continues, 16,000 lives will have been saved in the first year of President Bolsonaro's time in office.
The rate reduction was not quite that high. Only 10,000 lives were saved. From wtop.com:
Brazil had 41,635 killings in 2019, down 19% from the prior year and the least number of homicides since 2007, when the so-called Violence Monitor index was launched. It is a partnership between the non-profit Brazilian Forum of Public Security, the University of Sao Paulo’s Center for the Study of Violence, and news website G1, which published the data Friday.
When translated to homicide rates, the rate dropped 17% in 2018, then 23% more in 2019. The population of Brazil in 2019 was 210 million. The rate of homicides per 100,000 was 19.83. That is less than 2/3 of the homicide rate in 2017, which was 30.8.
After the word, Yes", I quit reading.

I don't bother reading copied and pasted novels.

Yes......because you once again refuse to explain how it is that as more Americans over the last 27 years own and actually carry guns....over 18.2 million Americans.....our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%, our violent crime rate went down 72%...

There......those are the facts, and it is short enough for you to read.......

And you still can't explain it.....

This is why we have gun crime.....a criminal, arrested for pointing a gun at someone, released from jail and 3 hours later using another illegal gun to shoot and kill a little girl...

A normal gun owners did not do this....a guy with a long criminal record did this after being released from jail.........if he had been kept locked up, she would be alive...

Our problem is about criminals, not guns in the hands of normal people...

He had been picked up on unrelated charges and then released from jail three hours prior to the incident. The charges weren’t so unrelated, however, in the sense that he was first arrested for assault by pointing a gun at someone.

I'm not a interested in American gun ownership. No country has a ban on guns and all countries have restrictions to varying degrees. The reason why gun incidents are greater in the US than in UK, NZ and Australia is because the US owns more guns and much less gun restrictions. Whether the level of gun incidents increase or decrease with the increase or decrease of gun ownership in the US is of concern to Americans.
 
OP
2aguy

2aguy

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Joined
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Messages
80,046
Reaction score
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Police officers shot in New Zealand...where we are told they have strict gun control laws...

I believe all countries have gun laws.

Laws are designed to reduce incidents, they don't eliminate. The law is not to sell cigarettes to someone under the age of 18, kids still smoke.

That isn't what we are sold....we are told that banning and confiscating guns reduces gun crime...that isn't the case...

Can you explain how it is that more Americans own and carry guns, and our gun crime rate went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%?

That is over a 27 year time period...with an vast increase in gun ownership.

Normal gun owners do not create gun crime...democrat party policies here in the states create gun crime.......
To my knowledge, no country has banned guns. All countries have gun laws, some are less restricted than others, hence why levels of gun crime varies. For example, each year you will hear a few hundred gun incidents in Australia, New Zealand, Australia etc.. but in America, those few hundred is on a weekend.

Going by your logic, more guns = more safety, so that means America is the most safest, gun free crime country.

Yes...you didn't explain how, under your theory, America went through a period of more Americans buying and actually carrying guns....but our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%....and our violent crime rate went down 72%.....

You did not explain that.

Our problem isn't guns.....our problem, which you guys refuse to understand, is that the democrat party in this country has policies in the cities they control where they constantly release violent, repeat gun offenders, over and over again...these criminals commit 95% of our gun crime...and if the democrats simply stopped releasing them, we would drop our gun crime rate by about 95%........

As America shows.......gun ownership, and actually the carrying of guns for self defense, by normal Americans...........does not increase the gun crime rate.......

Again, you can't explain that with how you feel about guns.......

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%


Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.



You can't explain this either...


Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.



One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.


-----

Now four years later, Maine has been named the safest state in the nation according to US News and World Report’s public safety rankings, which measures the fifty states based on crime data.



Ranking as the top safest state for violent crime and fourth for property crime, Maine edges out another New England state, Vermont, for the top spot. Of note, Vermont also is a “Constitutional Carry” state. New Hampshire ranks third in the national rankings, giving New England all three of the top spots in the nation.

In 2018, Maine was edged out by Vermont in the same “safest states” ranking, but declared the best state overall in the broader “Crime and Corrections” category.

In 2017, using a different methodology, Maine was ranked second among the fifty states in the “Crime and Corrections” category and also second in the categories used to rank the “safest states.”

The U.S. News and World Report “Best States” rankings are built in partnership with McKinsey & Company, a firm that works closely with state leaders around the nation.

Maine has also ranked at the top of other state rankings. WalletHub.com recently ranked Maine second in “Personal and Residential Safety” among the fifty states, and third overall.

=============


You also can't explain this.....


Bolsonaro's Brazil, More Legal Guns, Homicide Rates Down Precipitously

In December, 2018, in an article published by the Wall Street Journal, this pronouncement was made. From the wsj.com:
Now, Brazil is set to embark on an experiment that will determine what happens when you loosen gun restrictions in a country battling an overpowering wave of gun crime.
Homicides in Brazil were at historic highs in 2017. They dropped a bit in 2018, as candidate Bolsonaro ran on reform of the gun laws to allow self defense, and reform of the law to get tough on crime. The homicide numbers dropped from 59,000 in 2017, to 51,000 in 2018. President Bolsonaro was elected in October of 2018.

After taking office on 1 January, 2019, President Bolsonaro issued his first decree reforming some of Brazil's extreme gun laws on 15 January, 2019. The drop in Brazil's homicide rate accelerated.
-------

Early in the Bolsonaro presidency, a Brazilian lawyer prediceted the homicide rate would drop. From ammoland.com:

César Mello, asked that I include information that early reports are showing a 25% drop in Brazil's homicide rate, in the first quarter of 2019. If this trend continues, 16,000 lives will have been saved in the first year of President Bolsonaro's time in office.
The rate reduction was not quite that high. Only 10,000 lives were saved. From wtop.com:
Brazil had 41,635 killings in 2019, down 19% from the prior year and the least number of homicides since 2007, when the so-called Violence Monitor index was launched. It is a partnership between the non-profit Brazilian Forum of Public Security, the University of Sao Paulo’s Center for the Study of Violence, and news website G1, which published the data Friday.
When translated to homicide rates, the rate dropped 17% in 2018, then 23% more in 2019. The population of Brazil in 2019 was 210 million. The rate of homicides per 100,000 was 19.83. That is less than 2/3 of the homicide rate in 2017, which was 30.8.
After the word, Yes", I quit reading.

I don't bother reading copied and pasted novels.

Yes......because you once again refuse to explain how it is that as more Americans over the last 27 years own and actually carry guns....over 18.2 million Americans.....our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%, our violent crime rate went down 72%...

There......those are the facts, and it is short enough for you to read.......

And you still can't explain it.....

This is why we have gun crime.....a criminal, arrested for pointing a gun at someone, released from jail and 3 hours later using another illegal gun to shoot and kill a little girl...

A normal gun owners did not do this....a guy with a long criminal record did this after being released from jail.........if he had been kept locked up, she would be alive...

Our problem is about criminals, not guns in the hands of normal people...

He had been picked up on unrelated charges and then released from jail three hours prior to the incident. The charges weren’t so unrelated, however, in the sense that he was first arrested for assault by pointing a gun at someone.

I'm not a interested in American gun ownership. No country has a ban on guns and all countries have restrictions to varying degrees. The reason why gun incidents are greater in the US than in UK, NZ and Australia is because the US owns more guns and much less gun restrictions. Whether the level of gun incidents increase or decrease with the increase or decrease of gun ownership in the US is of concern to Americans.

Wrong.......we have a more diverse population with racial issues and policies from the democrat party that allow violent, repeat gun offenders to be released and commit more gun crime...


You posted this...

The reason why gun incidents are greater in the US than in UK, NZ and Australia is because the US owns more guns and much less gun restrictions.

You can't explain how it is that in the United States as more Americans own and actually carry guns, our gun crime rate went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%, our violent crime rate went down 725...

You can't explain that with your theory...

I can explain that Britain, New Zealand and Australia will see more gun crime if they import more males from the 3rd world.......who will run your drug gangs and won't care about your gun laws.....

Britain banned guns....and don't give me that line that they didn't ban all guns....the few hunting shotguns for the rich Brits who hunt are not the ones who can't have the guns........and yet their gun crime rate did not go down, it stayed the same...another hole in your argument.....

You don't know what you are talking about.
 

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