But....armed Americans won't be able to use their guns effectively to stop attackers, you know, except for this guy, and so many others...

[miketx]

What is a "house liar"? And how did yours break?

you're the house liar.

 

[miketx]

Filthy, perhaps. Liar? Well, I did provide evidence for my position.

Are you capable of having a calm conversation without accusing me of stuff?

You lying scum don't accept proof.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Sorry but it isn't a lie.

Study: Guns in home increase suicide, homicide risk

A study of individual instances of suicide and gun ownership shows a certain connection between the two

www.cbsnews.com

"Seems to". "May".
Sorry - no proof here.

People in homes with handguns more likely to be shot dead, major study finds

Researchers find ‘zero evidence of any kind of protective effects’, with women at particular risk

www.theguardian.com

"May". "Suggests"
"It found that the absolute risk of living with a handgun owner was small, Studdert said, and that “the rates [of homicide] are low”
Sorry - no proof here.

Research Finds That Having a Gun in Your Home Can Make Your Household Less Safe

A new study finds that residents of states with higher levels of gun ownership are more likely to be shot to death by a family member or intimate partner.

psmag.com

"Can". "Suggests"
Sorry - no proof here.

You are free to believe otherwise, but you have no actual data to support your contention.

On the contrary -- I need only discredit your sources as they relate to your claim.
Done.
And, as you presented the sources, one can only conclude you knew these sourced so not prove your claim.
Thus,your lie.

See how easy that was?

 

[M14 Shooter]

As you like. Of course you can't prove your position but I can mine.
And I did so in Post #12.

This is a lie, as I proved in post # 23.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The people holding all the guns which are used to kill little kids and theater goers....

Are any of those people here?
Who are they and how do you know?

 

[Whodatsaywhodat.]

Would it be possible to discuss this topic in a way in which you don't end up characterizing more than half of the US population as being "pro-murder"? And if you wish to pursue the "pro-murder" crowd, it is probably best to look at where the "murder-making machines" are concentrated. That would be your side of the debate.

The people holding all the guns which are used to kill little kids and theater goers are in NO POSITION to look at the people who want those guns to be gone and say THEY are the cause for the murder.

Why do you democrats insist on letting these criminals out on bail . Yet people taking selfies at the Capitol are held with no bail ? Almost seems like democrats want more shootings so they can go after guns. Kinda like they make up things about Trump so they can prevent him from running for POTUS.

 

[2aguy]

Sorry but it isn't a lie.

Study: Guns in home increase suicide, homicide risk

A study of individual instances of suicide and gun ownership shows a certain connection between the two

www.cbsnews.com

People in homes with handguns more likely to be shot dead, major study finds

Researchers find ‘zero evidence of any kind of protective effects’, with women at particular risk

www.theguardian.com

Research Finds That Having a Gun in Your Home Can Make Your Household Less Safe

A new study finds that residents of states with higher levels of gun ownership are more likely to be shot to death by a family member or intimate partner.

psmag.com

You are free to believe otherwise, but you have no actual data to support your contention. And while you clearly don't like the data I have available, it is real so you have to figure out a way to debate against the experts.

Those crap studies have already been taken apart in other threads…..t

 

[2aguy]

"Seems to". "May".
Sorry - no proof here.

"May". "Suggests"
"It found that the absolute risk of living with a handgun owner was small, Studdert said, and that “the rates [of homicide] are low”
Sorry - no proof here.

"Can". "Suggests"
Sorry - no proof here.

On the contrary -- I need only discredit your sources as they relate to your claim.
Done.
And, as you presented the sources, one can only conclude you knew these sourced so not prove your claim.
Thus,your lie.

See how easy that was?

And when you dig into the studies you will find they leave out the type of people they used as their samples…….And if I remember correctly, from the other thread on this…..the areas of the country where they took their samples had massively high homicide rates……something they just ignore when they imply these are just normal homes….I’d look it up to verify but I’m watching Resident Alien and don’t want to bother with this crap tonight

 

[westwall]

Thanks to Visa, Mastercard and American Express there will in the future be fewer armed citizens capable of fighting back.

Nahh, cash is king baby.

 

[2aguy]

"Seems to". "May".
Sorry - no proof here.

"May". "Suggests"
"It found that the absolute risk of living with a handgun owner was small, Studdert said, and that “the rates [of homicide] are low”
Sorry - no proof here.

"Can". "Suggests"
Sorry - no proof here.

On the contrary -- I need only discredit your sources as they relate to your claim.
Done.
And, as you presented the sources, one can only conclude you knew these sourced so not prove your claim.
Thus,your lie.

See how easy that was?

Just a quick look….yep…..this article didn’t even link to the actual study…..big red flag there….and even then they point this out

The authors of the study acknowledged it had several shortcomings. For example, the researchers said they could not determine which victims had been killed by the handgun owners or with the in-home weapons. They couldn’t account for illegal guns and looked only at handguns, not rifles or other firearms. The dataset also was limited to registered voters in California who were 21 and older. It’s not clear that the findings are generalizable to the whole state, let alone to the rest of the country.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

This guy was shot in the head, losing an eye, and he still managed to draw and return fire on a mass shooter at a party....

As Hunt and other partiers had a bite to eat in the kitchen, the suspect pulled out a gun and began firing on the crowd, sending everyone fleeing, Mendez recounted.

Mendez was shot in the head in front of his wife, who rushed to his side and believed he was dead due to the amount of blood covering his face. She then grabbed their two daughters and put them into a room deeper in the house, barricading them and other children inside.

"She barricaded the door with the dresser. There were three other children in there, not including my two daughters. A total of five kids. She … throws them in the closet, throws clothes over them. Tells them, ‘Be quiet. Do not make a peep if you hear loud noises in this room,’" Mendez said of his wife's actions.

As Hunt continued his alleged rampage, two other women began fighting back against the suspect and screamed for Mendez, knowing he had a concealed carry weapon, Mendez said.

"By the glory of God or the adrenaline and just everything, just the will to live and the will to protect my family, I was able to hear those pleas, those yells for help. I heard my name. And I was able to get up," he said.

He was able to pull out his firearm and shoot the suspect four times in the chest.

"Detectives have determined the individual who shot Jason, and others who fought against Jason, were acting in self-defense and defense of other innocent parties," Sgt. Tommy Hale said in a press release days after the incident, KTAR reported at the time.

Arizona man shot in the head at family party credits his concealed carry for saving lives: ‘would have died’

Arizona man Raul Mendez is speaking out after he thwarted a shooter at a Fourth of July party with his concealed carry despite being shot in the head and losing his left eye.

www.foxnews.com

He has since purchased two additional handguns for his family to train with, saying they are "more ready to confront [evil] with equal force now than ever."

Mendez family appears in NRA video on the importance of legal gun ownership and protecting yourself. (NRA )
NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre highlighted in comments to Fox News Digital that the Mendez family’s story "must be told because they are just one example of why the NRA fights hard to improve self-defense laws all across our country."

It's great that you are spending so much time finding all the occasional cases where a gun-obsessed person like yourself was able to actually use the gun to a good end.

Keep up the good work.


Unfortunately mathematics is a bit more difficult. In order to shift the average of a very large population (gun nuts) such that owning a gun winds up being LESS statistically likely to harm the family of the gun nut.

I know you don't like numbers or statistics unless they confirm you bias and you've of course seen all the studies now that show that guns in the home are far more likely to be used against the people in that home than not.

I really wish you understood math and statistics and it would be GREAT if you understood the phrases "Anecdotal Data" and "CONFIRMATION BIAS"

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Nahh, cash is king baby.

And nothing says "Good intentioned, law-abiding gun owner" than sneakin' around hiding your gun purchases because someone might see you.

Who else does that? Oh I know...they usually find their way onto the news!

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

What you dont get is that most of us dont want to be heroes. We just don't want to be caught like a sitting duck by one of these people. I carry everyday but there is no way I want to be put in the position to be a "hero"

Yeah, but think about it: you probably AREN'T ever going to be a "hero" of any sort. Studies show that guns in the household are far more likely to be used to harm the inhabitants of that household than they are to protect against vicious intruders.

Don't get me wrong. I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND wanting a gun for "self-defense", especially if you live in a really horrible place. I feel for you. I wish where you lived wasn't a hell-hole of non-stop violence. But also most of us don't live in those places.

I think the key is to balance out our relative "fantasies" of how effective we would be in a shoot-out with the likelihood that our loved ones may be more likely to die from the guns we have in our homes than they are from the intruder.

 

[Paracetamol63]

Those crap studies have already been taken apart in other threads…..t

Let's be quite clear: YOU are not one to be able to take apart a study because you are not a professional researcher. It is apparent you are just a gun enthusiast who is seeking to avoid the reality of guns in our society.

What are your bona fides to take on actual research? I don't ask to be nasty or snotty, but frankly I've seen almost no one on this forum whatsoever that seems to understand how science is done, how statistics works, or how data is handled. So I'm curious why YOU are to be an authority.

 

[Paracetamol63]

Why do you democrats insist on letting these criminals out on bail .

Bail is not a democrat or republican thing. It's part of our judicial system. Sorry if you dislike the US Judicial System.

Almost seems like democrats want more shootings so they can go after guns.

That's a very strange position to take. It shows a lot of projection. Perhaps if the shoe were on the other foot?

But one side is defending the machines used to create the death and the other sides says WE NEED LESS OF THEM....and somehow you have arrived at a position that says the side that ISN'T defending the death-machines are the ones who want more death.

Kinda like they make up things about Trump so they can prevent him from running for POTUS.

Surely you aren't serious.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Unfortunately mathematics is a bit more difficult. In order to shift the average of a very large population (gun nuts) such that owning a gun winds up being LESS statistically likely to harm the family of the gun nut.

Unsurprisingly, you cannot demonstrate this to be true.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And nothing says "Good intentioned, law-abiding gun owner" than sneakin' around hiding your gun purchases because someone might see you.

Nothing says "fascism " like a collaberation between the state and industry to push the state's agenda.
No wonder you approve.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Yeah, but think about it: you probably AREN'T ever going to be a "hero" of any sort. Studies show that guns in the household are far more likely to be used to harm the inhabitants of that household than they are to protect against vicious intruders.

Unsurprisinly, you cannot demonstrate this to be true.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

This guy was shot in the head, losing an eye, and he still managed to draw and return fire on a mass shooter at a party....

As Hunt and other partiers had a bite to eat in the kitchen, the suspect pulled out a gun and began firing on the crowd, sending everyone fleeing, Mendez recounted.

Mendez was shot in the head in front of his wife, who rushed to his side and believed he was dead due to the amount of blood covering his face. She then grabbed their two daughters and put them into a room deeper in the house, barricading them and other children inside.

"She barricaded the door with the dresser. There were three other children in there, not including my two daughters. A total of five kids. She … throws them in the closet, throws clothes over them. Tells them, ‘Be quiet. Do not make a peep if you hear loud noises in this room,’" Mendez said of his wife's actions.

As Hunt continued his alleged rampage, two other women began fighting back against the suspect and screamed for Mendez, knowing he had a concealed carry weapon, Mendez said.

"By the glory of God or the adrenaline and just everything, just the will to live and the will to protect my family, I was able to hear those pleas, those yells for help. I heard my name. And I was able to get up," he said.

He was able to pull out his firearm and shoot the suspect four times in the chest.

"Detectives have determined the individual who shot Jason, and others who fought against Jason, were acting in self-defense and defense of other innocent parties," Sgt. Tommy Hale said in a press release days after the incident, KTAR reported at the time.

Arizona man shot in the head at family party credits his concealed carry for saving lives: ‘would have died’

Arizona man Raul Mendez is speaking out after he thwarted a shooter at a Fourth of July party with his concealed carry despite being shot in the head and losing his left eye.

www.foxnews.com

He has since purchased two additional handguns for his family to train with, saying they are "more ready to confront [evil] with equal force now than ever."

Mendez family appears in NRA video on the importance of legal gun ownership and protecting yourself. (NRA )
NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre highlighted in comments to Fox News Digital that the Mendez family’s story "must be told because they are just one example of why the NRA fights hard to improve self-defense laws all across our country."

Just bought 400 rounds of wad cutters .45 LC and 55 grain Remmington .223 of 1000 rounds. With a Marxist on this board saying that the government should ban ammunition instead of the weapons that use the ammo, it is never enough to bring your stash for those people like who showed up at the Mendez family house.

I want to leave a very big hole into the Marxist who thinks they can come in my house without my invitation.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

That's why James always carries- he says the last place you'd think to need it is probably the place you will.

If you dont carry all the time, you will eventually be a victim of a crime, that might even kill you. If you do keep yourself protected then you have a fighting chance.