Bush's gaffe rings true.

[Big Bend Texas]

By the way, the incident is likely the seed that spawned the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993 which failed to take down the structure.

Baseless fabrication.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

The Entire Iraq war had nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction. It was to distract attention away from Saudi Arabia, the real culprit and to cover up the ineptitude of Bush’s father who was the one responsible for all the death and bloodshed that followed. The war in Iraq was to protect the legacy of the Bush’s.

Right, the more than 1000 violations of the Gulf War Cease Fire Accords including the targeting of and shooting at US and Coalition Aircraft enforcing the No Fly Zone had nothing to do with it.

Anyone lying this much must have a hell of a time facing themselves in the mirror.

 

[Rigby5]

Why are you lying? The United States Gov't never provided Saddam with Chemical weapons.

Yes the US most certainly DID provide Iraq with chemical weapons because Saddam was losing in the war with Iran, due to human wave attacks.

{...

U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup Trade in Chemical Arms; Allowed Despite Their Use on Iranians, Kurds​

By Michael Dobbs, Washington Post, 29 December 2003​

High on the Bush administration's list of justifications for war against Iraq are President Saddam Hussein's use of chemical weapons, nuclear and biological programs, and his contacts with international terrorists. What U.S. officials rarely acknowledge is that these offenses date back to a period when Hussein was seen in Washington as a valued ally.

Among the people instrumental in tilting U.S. policy toward Baghdad during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war was Donald H. Rumsfeld, now defense secretary, whose December 1983 meeting with Hussein as a special presidential envoy paved the way for normalization of U.S.-Iraqi relations. Declassified documents show that Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad at a time when Iraq was using chemical weapons on an almost daily basis in defiance of international conventions.

The story of U.S. involvement with Saddam Hussein in the years before his 1990 attack on Kuwait—which included large-scale intelligence sharing, supply of cluster bombs through a Chilean front company, and facilitating Iraq's acquisition of chemical and biological precursors—is a topical example of the underside of U.S. foreign policy. It is a world in which deals can be struck with dictators, human rights violations sometimes overlooked, and accommodations made with arms proliferators, all on the principle that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Throughout the 1980s, Hussein's Iraq was the sworn enemy of Iran, then still in the throes of an Islamic revolution. U.S. officials saw Baghdad as a bulwark against militant Shiite extremism and the fall of pro-American states such as Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and even Jordan—a Middle East version of the domino theory in Southeast Asia. That was enough to turn Hussein into a strategic partner and for U.S. diplomats in Baghdad to routinely refer to Iraqi forces as the good guys, in contrast to the Iranians, who were depicted as the bad guys.

A review of thousands of declassified government documents and interviews with former policymakers shows that U.S. intelligence and logistical support played a crucial role in shoring up Iraqi defenses against the human wave attacks by suicidal Iranian troops. The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague.
...}

Michael Dobbs, U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup Trade in Chemical Arms Allowed Despite Their Use on Iranians, Kurds

 

[Rigby5]

Right, the more than 1000 violations of the Gulf War Cease Fire Accords including the targeting of and shooting at US and Coalition Aircraft enforcing the No Fly Zone had nothing to do with it.

Anyone lying this much must have a hell of a time facing themselves in the mirror.

The US no-fly-zones were totally illegal, as was the US blockade of civilian commerce to Iraq.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

The US no-fly-zones were totally illegal, as was the US blockade of civilian commerce to Iraq.

Really? And that was decided by what court?

 

[Big Bend Texas]

The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague

You really should learn to read your own citations.

Dual use chemicals are not "chemical weapons" and labs all across the world study pathogenic viruses and bacteria without weaponizing them.

You are as usual talking out of your ass.

 

[Rigby5]

Really? And that was decided by what court?

Iraq had the right to invade Kuwait in order to stop them from stealing any more Iraqi oil.
Oil theft is an act of war.
The no-fly-zones were not created by the UN, so the US had no authority to create them at all.
They essentially were in violation of Iraqi's sovereign territory rights.
These are basic principles, so you don't need a court when confronted with an obvious criminal act.
What was really dumb was that the northern no-fly-zone prevented Saddam from being able to stop al Qaeda from setting up camps there.

 

[Rigby5]

You really should learn to read your own citations.

Dual use chemicals are not "chemical weapons" and labs all across the world study pathogenic viruses and bacteria without weaponizing them.

You are as usual talking out of your ass.

Wrong.
We just gave Saddam the precursors and let him mix them together, so we would have a cover story.
This is not the only article and many are much more explicit.
They clearly show the US deliberately gave Saddam chemical weapons so he would not lose against the Iranians.
But this was just the first sufficient link, and it does show that not only did the chemical weapons come from the US, but that we know he did not have sarin, VX, or cyanide.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Really. (I know this is anecdotal,) BUT coincidentally the US Army changed the overall camo scheme from NATO green to Desert tan in 1990, the very environment of the middle east, and then coincidentally in far larger shipments than even the Vietnam war. Yes, we notice stuff like that.

So? Our potential threats all were coming from countries in desert regions. That's where you make your camo for.

 

[Rigby5]

So? Our potential threats all were coming from countries in desert regions. That's where you make your camo for.

Never has any desert country ever been any sort of remote threat to the US.
But they do often have oil, which is always of great interest to the US.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Iraq had the right to invade Kuwait in order to stop them from stealing any more Iraqi oil.
Oil theft is an act of war.
The no-fly-zones were not created by the UN, so the US had no authority to create them at all.
They essentially were in violation of Iraqi's sovereign territory rights.
These are basic principles, so you don't need a court when confronted with an obvious criminal act.
What was really dumb was that the northern no-fly-zone prevented Saddam from being able to stop al Qaeda from setting up camps there.
Iraq's claims were never substantiated.

The NFZ's were created under resolution 686 to protect civilian populations in the north and south that Saddam continued to murder.

As for AQ, funny you should mention that.

Al Qaeda camp in Iraq

www.amnation.com

AL QAEDA CAMP IN IRAQ

Here’s a stunning piece of information about Iraq and Al Qaeda that I had somehow previously missed, from Mark Alexander at TownHall.com. It was also discussed by Secretary Powell in his UN speech last February.


Under Saddam’s reign of terror, Iraq provided chemical and biological weapons training for Al Qaeda terrorists and in 2002 provided medical care for senior Al Qaeda operative Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and safe haven for two dozen al-Qa’ida terrorists travelling with him. Facilities in northern Iraq run by Zarqawi and terrorist network Ansar al-Islam included Al Qaeda poisons/toxins laboratories and planning centers for attacks against France, Britain, Spain, Italy, Germany and Russia.

There's no evidence the US had confirmation of this camp or what was going ton there until during/after the war.

They had been secretly operating there for years under the Aegis of Saddam.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Really. (I know this is anecdotal,) BUT coincidentally the US Army changed the overall camo scheme from NATO green to Desert tan in 1990, the very environment of the middle east, and then coincidentally in far larger shipments than even the Vietnam war. Yes, we notice stuff like that.

All of our emerging threats were in desert regions in that era and of course, our major combined arms training bases were located in similar regions so it was the more effective camo pattern to issue to most of them outside of Europe where Woodland BDU's were still the standard camo patter being issued.

 

[MaryL]

So? Our potential threats all were coming from countries in desert regions. That's where you make your camo for.

It seems rater odd at the time. 1990, when we where concerned with eastern Europe, NATO and Russia. the military focus shifted suddenly shifted to the middle east BEFORE conflict broke out. Almost like they planned it and knew it was coming.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

It seems rater odd at the time. 1990, when we where concerned with eastern Europe, NATO and Russia. the military focus shifted suddenly shifted to the middle east BEFORE conflict broke out. Almost like they planned it and knew it was coming.

We knew in 85 that's where the Emerging Threats were. In 84 Reagan directed the Pentagon to prepare for actions there against rogue regimes and terrorist organizations.

North Africa and the ME were our primary areas of concern that's why the Division 86 program was implemented which reorganized units and training world wide and began the rapid expansion of our Special Op's forces to prepare for same.

 

[MaryL]

All of our emerging threats were in desert regions in that era and of course, our major combined arms training bases were located in similar regions so it was the more effective camo pattern to issue to most of them outside of Europe where Woodland BDU's were still the standard camo patter being issued.

No, most of the military was based on RUSSIA being our major threat. NATO and EASTERN Europe. 1990? Saddam was an ally and we used him to fight the Iranians. Well that didn't work out.,

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It seems rater odd at the time. 1990, when we where concerned with eastern Europe, NATO and Russia. the military focus shifted suddenly shifted to the middle east BEFORE conflict broke out. Almost like they planned it and knew it was coming.

Why did the Army wait until 2004, well into Afghanistan and Iraq to have the troops wear a desert camo uniform?

How about Iraq seizing our embassy? That was 1979. Sorry! There was no grand conspiracy like you envision.

 

[Rigby5]

Iraq had the right to invade Kuwait in order to stop them from stealing any more Iraqi oil.
Oil theft is an act of war.
The no-fly-zones were not created by the UN, so the US had no authority to create them at all.
They essentially were in violation of Iraqi's sovereign territory rights.
These are basic principles, so you don't need a court when confronted with an obvious criminal act.
What was really dumb was that the northern no-fly-zone prevented Saddam from being able to stop al Qaeda from setting up camps there.

Iraq's claims were never substantiated.

The NFZ's were created under resolution 686 to protect civilian populations in the north and south that Saddam continued to murder.

As for AQ, funny you should mention that.

Al Qaeda camp in Iraq

www.amnation.com

AL QAEDA CAMP IN IRAQ



There's no evidence the US had confirmation of this camp or what was going ton there until during/after the war.

They had been secretly operating there for years under the Aegis of Saddam.

Totally wrong.
Saddam's claims of Kuwait stealing Iraqi oil and dumping at illegal prices was well documented and known by the US.
Why else do you think the Ambassador Glaspie interview happened at all?
But there are lots of other sources to confirm Saddam was in the right all along.
Just ask and I will dig them up.

As for Zarqawi, al Qaeda set up in the northern Kurdish sector specifically to be protected from Saddam.
The claim Saddam had terrorist ties are total lies.
It was the US that was protecting Zarqawi and preventing Saddam from attacking al Qaeda in Iraq.
Nor could the US have been unaware of Zarqawi's presence, because Saddam complained about him and we later took him out.

 

[Rigby5]

All of our emerging threats were in desert regions in that era and of course, our major combined arms training bases were located in similar regions so it was the more effective camo pattern to issue to most of them outside of Europe where Woodland BDU's were still the standard camo patter being issued.

Name a single desert region that was at all in any way a threat to the US?
There were none and never were any.
Saddam was totally innocent, our ally against the Iranians.
Afghanistan was the Taliban from our Mujahideen allies.
We were turncoats twice over.

 

[Rigby5]

We knew in 85 that's where the Emerging Threats were. In 84 Reagan directed the Pentagon to prepare for actions there against rogue regimes and terrorist organizations.

North Africa and the ME were our primary areas of concern that's why the Division 86 program was implemented which reorganized units and training world wide and began the rapid expansion of our Special Op's forces to prepare for same.

No, there were never any "rogue regimes" or any terrorist ties.
The only thing there was is oil, and our greed.

 

[MaryL]

Why did the Army wait until 2004, well into Afghanistan and Iraq to have the troops wear a desert camo uniform?

How about Iraq seizing our embassy? That was 1979. Sorry! There was no grand conspiracy like you envision.

This was in 1990. Preparing for a war that hasn't happened yet...What it was is open to interpretation. I saw it happen, this isn't the fucking X-Files.