Building the Border Fence - A Public/Private Partnership

[CultureCitizen]

The real problem is that there is no appeal to ignorance of our Commerce Clause; why are we losing money on Commerce at our borders?

Daniel,
As much as I would like to discuss the commerce clause which you bring to topic, I feel your argument is very vague. What exactly do you propose regarding the Commerce Clause to dimish illegal immigration.

 

[Flopper]

No, most illegals don't come in legally. They come in over our Southern border. Just about everything opponents of a fence say about illegal immigration is a lie. This isn't a problem created by rich pubs. Democrats, especially Obama, created the problem. Trying to blame it on pubs is a joke.

Republicans like their cheap labor, which is why you'll find no employers of illegals in Sheriff Joe's tent camp.

The problem of illegal immigration has historical been about jobs. However, today there's a relatively new ingredient, families. We have so many Latin Americans in the US, both legal and illegally that families in Latin America will do what ever is necessary to be with their family and loved ones. As long as we reward illegals with jobs and our laws make it difficult or impossible for love ones to be their families, you won't be able to build a wall high enough to keep them out.

Wrong. One thing they won't do is go back to Mexico. That shows this claim is just a just another excuse for doing nothing.

Actually they do. Both legal and illegal Mexican Americans living in the US cross back into Mexico quite often. Many of the those apprehended attempting to cross into the US are illegal immigrants returning to the states.

If you mean they don't often return permanently to Mexico, you're probably correct, however I was addressing Latin American entering into the US illegal to be with family and loved ones.

The real reason they are entering is to get an American job. Any other claims are just plain bullshit.

Family in Latin American countries is a big. deal. People will travel hundreds of miles often on foot and the most awful means of public transportation to attend a marriage ceremony, a funeral, or just be at the side of loved one. If the family happens to live in the US, there are a number of obstacles particular if you happen to be poor.

First, you have to get a Mexican passport which requires certified copies of documents, paying a fee equivalent to $74 in the US. Then you have to get a US Tourist Visa and Boarder Crossing Card at a cost equivalent to $190US a person. Getting the Visa requires you submit various legal documents and have a successful interview with an agent of the US Bureau of Consulate Affairs, in which you must proof that you have sufficient funds to complete your trip and that you will return to Mexico. The entire process can take months and the cost can be over $400 a person. This process encourages poor Mexicans to illegally enter the US and if they do they often remain in the US.

 

[danielpalos]

The real problem is that there is no appeal to ignorance of our Commerce Clause; why are we losing money on Commerce at our borders?

Daniel,
As much as I would like to discuss the commerce clause which you bring to topic, I feel your argument is very vague. What exactly do you propose regarding the Commerce Clause to dimish illegal immigration.

My premise starts with, Capitalism is only useless to the right. The left must learn to Use capitalism for all of its worth.

We should not be losing money on Commerce at our borders. Only bad Capitalists do that.

Since many alleged Invaders are enjoying freedom of association and contract in our markets for labor, we should be taking advantage of that natural public sector monopoly and harness it into a public sector means of production that generates revenue to defray the cost of government.

 

[CultureCitizen]

The real problem is that there is no appeal to ignorance of our Commerce Clause; why are we losing money on Commerce at our borders?

Daniel,
As much as I would like to discuss the commerce clause which you bring to topic, I feel your argument is very vague. What exactly do you propose regarding the Commerce Clause to dimish illegal immigration.

My premise starts with, Capitalism is only useless to the right. The left must learn to Use capitalism for all of its worth.

We should not be losing money on Commerce at our borders. Only bad Capitalists do that.

Since many alleged Invaders are enjoying freedom of association and contract in our markets for labor, we should be taking advantage of that natural public sector monopoly and harness it into a public sector means of production that generates revenue to defray the cost of government.

I am still unsure of what you mean.
The border zone is quite an active zone and a lot of trade is done there. Mexicans love doing shopping at the border cities while many US companies can get cheap goods from mexican factories "maquiladoras".

Labour. Within the EU labour and goods can move almost freely between member countries. The fact that NAFTA did not include labour ( a key economic resource) within the treaty was a complete nonsense. It was quite evident that some jobs would be lost on both sides ( but specially in Mexico) as tariffs were eliminated. IMHO labour should have been included in the NAFTA or NAFTA should have only included Canada to avoid the all but logical wave of illegal imigrants that it would trigger.

European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Labour mobility in the EU

"Along with free movement of goods, services and capital, free movement of citizens, including workers, is one of the four fundamental freedoms enshrined in the Treaties and underpinning the Single Market. However, free movement of citizens is under attack today in some Member States."

 

[CultureCitizen]

Republicans like their cheap labor, which is why you'll find no employers of illegals in Sheriff Joe's tent camp.

The problem of illegal immigration has historical been about jobs. However, today there's a relatively new ingredient, families. We have so many Latin Americans in the US, both legal and illegally that families in Latin America will do what ever is necessary to be with their family and loved ones. As long as we reward illegals with jobs and our laws make it difficult or impossible for love ones to be their families, you won't be able to build a wall high enough to keep them out.

Wrong. One thing they won't do is go back to Mexico. That shows this claim is just a just another excuse for doing nothing.

Actually they do. Both legal and illegal Mexican Americans living in the US cross back into Mexico quite often. Many of the those apprehended attempting to cross into the US are illegal immigrants returning to the states.

If you mean they don't often return permanently to Mexico, you're probably correct, however I was addressing Latin American entering into the US illegal to be with family and loved ones.

The real reason they are entering is to get an American job. Any other claims are just plain bullshit.

Family in Latin American countries is a big. deal. People will travel hundreds of miles often on foot and the most awful means of public transportation to attend a marriage ceremony, a funeral, or just be at the side of loved one. If the family happens to live in the US, there are a number of obstacles particular if you happen to be poor.

First, you have to get a Mexican passport which requires certified copies of documents, paying a fee equivalent to $74 in the US. Then you have to get a US Tourist Visa and Boarder Crossing Card at a cost equivalent to $190US a person. Getting the Visa requires you submit various legal documents and have a successful interview with an agent of the US Bureau of Consulate Affairs, in which you must proof that you have sufficient funds to complete your trip and that you will return to Mexico. The entire process can take months and the cost can be over $400 a person. This process encourages poor Mexicans to illegally enter the US and if they do they often remain in the US.

I am not sure the costs are a deterrent. I think illegal crossings are an option only when the visas get rejected. The violence has increased significantly in recent years ( specially in the north of Mexico) and even poor people would rather pay $1,000 than risk being killed by one of the blodthirsty cartels. A "trusted" coyote might be the second best option. The worst option would be traversing the desert by yourself.
Just as close to a million (mostly legal ?) retirees have migrated from the US to Mexico, because they get a higher standard of living , millions of mexicans ( mostly illegal) migrate to the US for the same reason.

 

[danielpalos]

The real problem is that there is no appeal to ignorance of our Commerce Clause; why are we losing money on Commerce at our borders?

Daniel,
As much as I would like to discuss the commerce clause which you bring to topic, I feel your argument is very vague. What exactly do you propose regarding the Commerce Clause to dimish illegal immigration.

My premise starts with, Capitalism is only useless to the right. The left must learn to Use capitalism for all of its worth.

We should not be losing money on Commerce at our borders. Only bad Capitalists do that.

Since many alleged Invaders are enjoying freedom of association and contract in our markets for labor, we should be taking advantage of that natural public sector monopoly and harness it into a public sector means of production that generates revenue to defray the cost of government.

I am still unsure of what you mean.
The border zone is quite an active zone and a lot of trade is done there. Mexicans love doing shopping at the border cities while many US companies can get cheap goods from mexican factories "maquiladoras".

Labour. Within the EU labour and goods can move almost freely between member countries. The fact that NAFTA did not include labour ( a key economic resource) within the treaty was a complete nonsense. It was quite evident that some jobs would be lost on both sides ( but specially in Mexico) as tariffs were eliminated. IMHO labour should have been included in the NAFTA or NAFTA should have only included Canada to avoid the all but logical wave of illegal imigrants that it would trigger.

European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Labour mobility in the EU

"Along with free movement of goods, services and capital, free movement of citizens, including workers, is one of the four fundamental freedoms enshrined in the Treaties and underpinning the Single Market. However, free movement of citizens is under attack today in some Member States."

I am referring to the potential of increasing market share; from any black markets in human trafficking.

 

[bripat9643]

The problem of illegal immigration has historical been about jobs. However, today there's a relatively new ingredient, families. We have so many Latin Americans in the US, both legal and illegally that families in Latin America will do what ever is necessary to be with their family and loved ones. As long as we reward illegals with jobs and our laws make it difficult or impossible for love ones to be their families, you won't be able to build a wall high enough to keep them out.

Wrong. One thing they won't do is go back to Mexico. That shows this claim is just a just another excuse for doing nothing.

Actually they do. Both legal and illegal Mexican Americans living in the US cross back into Mexico quite often. Many of the those apprehended attempting to cross into the US are illegal immigrants returning to the states.

If you mean they don't often return permanently to Mexico, you're probably correct, however I was addressing Latin American entering into the US illegal to be with family and loved ones.

The real reason they are entering is to get an American job. Any other claims are just plain bullshit.

Family in Latin American countries is a big. deal. People will travel hundreds of miles often on foot and the most awful means of public transportation to attend a marriage ceremony, a funeral, or just be at the side of loved one. If the family happens to live in the US, there are a number of obstacles particular if you happen to be poor.

First, you have to get a Mexican passport which requires certified copies of documents, paying a fee equivalent to $74 in the US. Then you have to get a US Tourist Visa and Boarder Crossing Card at a cost equivalent to $190US a person. Getting the Visa requires you submit various legal documents and have a successful interview with an agent of the US Bureau of Consulate Affairs, in which you must proof that you have sufficient funds to complete your trip and that you will return to Mexico. The entire process can take months and the cost can be over $400 a person. This process encourages poor Mexicans to illegally enter the US and if they do they often remain in the US.

I am not sure the costs are a deterrent. I think illegal crossings are an option only when the visas get rejected. The violence has increased significantly in recent years ( specially in the north of Mexico) and even poor people would rather pay $1,000 than risk being killed by one of the blodthirsty cartels. A "trusted" coyote might be the second best option. The worst option would be traversing the desert by yourself.
Just as close to a million (mostly legal ?) retirees have migrated from the US to Mexico, because they get a higher standard of living , millions of mexicans ( mostly illegal) migrate to the US for the same reason.

You think some ignorant Mexican peasant has $1000 to pay for the visa process? Most of them also can't afford to pay coyotes. They walk across the border because that's what they can afford. It isn't that hard.

 

[danielpalos]

I have read some people may pay many times more than that; to ensure promptness and better customer service.

 

[bripat9643]

The problem of illegal immigration has historical been about jobs. However, today there's a relatively new ingredient, families. We have so many Latin Americans in the US, both legal and illegally that families in Latin America will do what ever is necessary to be with their family and loved ones. As long as we reward illegals with jobs and our laws make it difficult or impossible for love ones to be their families, you won't be able to build a wall high enough to keep them out.

Wrong. One thing they won't do is go back to Mexico. That shows this claim is just a just another excuse for doing nothing.

Actually they do. Both legal and illegal Mexican Americans living in the US cross back into Mexico quite often. Many of the those apprehended attempting to cross into the US are illegal immigrants returning to the states.

If you mean they don't often return permanently to Mexico, you're probably correct, however I was addressing Latin American entering into the US illegal to be with family and loved ones.

The real reason they are entering is to get an American job. Any other claims are just plain bullshit.

Family in Latin American countries is a big. deal. People will travel hundreds of miles often on foot and the most awful means of public transportation to attend a marriage ceremony, a funeral, or just be at the side of loved one. If the family happens to live in the US, there are a number of obstacles particular if you happen to be poor.

First, you have to get a Mexican passport which requires certified copies of documents, paying a fee equivalent to $74 in the US. Then you have to get a US Tourist Visa and Boarder Crossing Card at a cost equivalent to $190US a person. Getting the Visa requires you submit various legal documents and have a successful interview with an agent of the US Bureau of Consulate Affairs, in which you must proof that you have sufficient funds to complete your trip and that you will return to Mexico. The entire process can take months and the cost can be over $400 a person. This process encourages poor Mexicans to illegally enter the US and if they do they often remain in the US.

I am not sure the costs are a deterrent. I think illegal crossings are an option only when the visas get rejected. The violence has increased significantly in recent years ( specially in the north of Mexico) and even poor people would rather pay $1,000 than risk being killed by one of the blodthirsty cartels. A "trusted" coyote might be the second best option. The worst option would be traversing the desert by yourself.
Just as close to a million (mostly legal ?) retirees have migrated from the US to Mexico, because they get a higher standard of living , millions of mexicans ( mostly illegal) migrate to the US for the same reason.

Your wasting your time trying to get any kind of coherent answer from danielpos. The guy's brains are scrambled.

 

[danielpalos]

Wrong. One thing they won't do is go back to Mexico. That shows this claim is just a just another excuse for doing nothing.

Actually they do. Both legal and illegal Mexican Americans living in the US cross back into Mexico quite often. Many of the those apprehended attempting to cross into the US are illegal immigrants returning to the states.

If you mean they don't often return permanently to Mexico, you're probably correct, however I was addressing Latin American entering into the US illegal to be with family and loved ones.

The real reason they are entering is to get an American job. Any other claims are just plain bullshit.

Family in Latin American countries is a big. deal. People will travel hundreds of miles often on foot and the most awful means of public transportation to attend a marriage ceremony, a funeral, or just be at the side of loved one. If the family happens to live in the US, there are a number of obstacles particular if you happen to be poor.

First, you have to get a Mexican passport which requires certified copies of documents, paying a fee equivalent to $74 in the US. Then you have to get a US Tourist Visa and Boarder Crossing Card at a cost equivalent to $190US a person. Getting the Visa requires you submit various legal documents and have a successful interview with an agent of the US Bureau of Consulate Affairs, in which you must proof that you have sufficient funds to complete your trip and that you will return to Mexico. The entire process can take months and the cost can be over $400 a person. This process encourages poor Mexicans to illegally enter the US and if they do they often remain in the US.

I am not sure the costs are a deterrent. I think illegal crossings are an option only when the visas get rejected. The violence has increased significantly in recent years ( specially in the north of Mexico) and even poor people would rather pay $1,000 than risk being killed by one of the blodthirsty cartels. A "trusted" coyote might be the second best option. The worst option would be traversing the desert by yourself.
Just as close to a million (mostly legal ?) retirees have migrated from the US to Mexico, because they get a higher standard of living , millions of mexicans ( mostly illegal) migrate to the US for the same reason.

Your wasting your time trying to get any kind of coherent answer from danielpos. The guy's brains are scrambled.

A very concise answer is there; you are just not competent enough to understand it yet, grasshopper.

 

[RKMBrown]

Do you really think a wall will keep out illegals?

It will keep out 95% of them. Walls and fences have worked every time they have been tried.

When you you leftwing turds going to admit that you don't want to seal the border?

Who do you think you're fooling?

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Just cause you can't get over a wall does not mean 99.99999999999999999999% of the population can't.

Make it 15' high, top it with 15' of razor wire humming with 50,000 volts and 100 amps, surround it with a 100-yard no-man's land, covered with machine guns on motion detectors and liberally sown with land mines. Patrol it with armed helicopters with "shoot on sight" ROE. Attempting to cross illegally should be nearly impossible and almost-always fatal.

ROFL... if anyone's gonna be armed with helicopters it will be the illegals not our people. We would never shoot our illegal guests who are crossing. We are begging them to come over illegally. Why would we shoot them?

Regardless if you were to spend a trillion dollars a year protecting our border with our entire armed forces... the illegals would just come by boat or visa and stay illegally.

 

[RKMBrown]

Do you really think a wall will keep out illegals?

It will keep out 95% of them. Walls and fences have worked every time they have been tried.

When you you leftwing turds going to admit that you don't want to seal the border?

Who do you think you're fooling?

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Just cause you can't get over a wall does not mean 99.99999999999999999999% of the population can't.

It will take them a lot of work to get over a well designed wall. Meanwhile the border patrol will be waiting for them when they step foot on the other side.

The Israeli wall works astoundingly well, so what do the Israelis know that liberals are too stupid to figure out?

You are comparing apples to oranges. Clearly you've never seen our southern border. You can't wall it or fence it... there's already a RIVER there and it does nothing to slow people down.

False premise. Nobody having the stones to do it is not the same as "it can't be done".

We don't have a functional border patrol. We use our border patrol as bus drivers to bring illegal mexicans up to processing centers put them up in nice digs before we give them money and food and bus them around the country to collect welfare. ROFL[/qauote]

I agree: they should instead be shooting illegals on sight.

The Israeli fence is minuscule by comparison and it's near heavy population already. Our border is in the middle of nowhere for thousands of miles. It's like comparing paring a fence at a prison (israel) to a fence in the middle of the sahara desert... its a silly comparison.

What you need to take care of the border is men and a mission to stop them from coming over vs. help them come over.

Yes: wall off Mexico. Kill anyone trying to cross.

Not a false premise. FACT. Both republicans and democrats have NO INTENTION OF STOPPING THE FLOW AT THE BORDER.

 

[danielpalos]

Do you really think a wall will keep out illegals?

It will keep out 95% of them. Walls and fences have worked every time they have been tried.

When you you leftwing turds going to admit that you don't want to seal the border?

Who do you think you're fooling?

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Just cause you can't get over a wall does not mean 99.99999999999999999999% of the population can't.

Make it 15' high, top it with 15' of razor wire humming with 50,000 volts and 100 amps, surround it with a 100-yard no-man's land, covered with machine guns on motion detectors and liberally sown with land mines. Patrol it with armed helicopters with "shoot on sight" ROE. Attempting to cross illegally should be nearly impossible and almost-always fatal.

ROFL... if anyone's gonna be armed with helicopters it will be the illegals not our people. We would never shoot our illegal guests who are crossing. We are begging them to come over illegally. Why would we shoot them?

Regardless if you were to spend a trillion dollars a year protecting our border with our entire armed forces... the illegals would just come by boat or visa and stay illegally.

The Great Walls of America amusement park would do a better job. We have a Commerce Clause, what could go wrong?

 

[danielpalos]

It will keep out 95% of them. Walls and fences have worked every time they have been tried.

When you you leftwing turds going to admit that you don't want to seal the border?

Who do you think you're fooling?

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Just cause you can't get over a wall does not mean 99.99999999999999999999% of the population can't.

It will take them a lot of work to get over a well designed wall. Meanwhile the border patrol will be waiting for them when they step foot on the other side.

The Israeli wall works astoundingly well, so what do the Israelis know that liberals are too stupid to figure out?

You are comparing apples to oranges. Clearly you've never seen our southern border. You can't wall it or fence it... there's already a RIVER there and it does nothing to slow people down.

False premise. Nobody having the stones to do it is not the same as "it can't be done".

We don't have a functional border patrol. We use our border patrol as bus drivers to bring illegal mexicans up to processing centers put them up in nice digs before we give them money and food and bus them around the country to collect welfare. ROFL[/qauote]

I agree: they should instead be shooting illegals on sight.

The Israeli fence is minuscule by comparison and it's near heavy population already. Our border is in the middle of nowhere for thousands of miles. It's like comparing paring a fence at a prison (israel) to a fence in the middle of the sahara desert... its a silly comparison.

What you need to take care of the border is men and a mission to stop them from coming over vs. help them come over.

Yes: wall off Mexico. Kill anyone trying to cross.

Not a false premise. FACT. Both republicans and democrats have NO INTENTION OF STOPPING THE FLOW AT THE BORDER.

Perhaps, it may be why our Founding Fathers wisely included a Commerce Clause, perchance to get some clue and some Cause.

 

[bripat9643]

Actually they do. Both legal and illegal Mexican Americans living in the US cross back into Mexico quite often. Many of the those apprehended attempting to cross into the US are illegal immigrants returning to the states.

If you mean they don't often return permanently to Mexico, you're probably correct, however I was addressing Latin American entering into the US illegal to be with family and loved ones.

The real reason they are entering is to get an American job. Any other claims are just plain bullshit.

Family in Latin American countries is a big. deal. People will travel hundreds of miles often on foot and the most awful means of public transportation to attend a marriage ceremony, a funeral, or just be at the side of loved one. If the family happens to live in the US, there are a number of obstacles particular if you happen to be poor.

First, you have to get a Mexican passport which requires certified copies of documents, paying a fee equivalent to $74 in the US. Then you have to get a US Tourist Visa and Boarder Crossing Card at a cost equivalent to $190US a person. Getting the Visa requires you submit various legal documents and have a successful interview with an agent of the US Bureau of Consulate Affairs, in which you must proof that you have sufficient funds to complete your trip and that you will return to Mexico. The entire process can take months and the cost can be over $400 a person. This process encourages poor Mexicans to illegally enter the US and if they do they often remain in the US.

I am not sure the costs are a deterrent. I think illegal crossings are an option only when the visas get rejected. The violence has increased significantly in recent years ( specially in the north of Mexico) and even poor people would rather pay $1,000 than risk being killed by one of the blodthirsty cartels. A "trusted" coyote might be the second best option. The worst option would be traversing the desert by yourself.
Just as close to a million (mostly legal ?) retirees have migrated from the US to Mexico, because they get a higher standard of living , millions of mexicans ( mostly illegal) migrate to the US for the same reason.

Your wasting your time trying to get any kind of coherent answer from danielpos. The guy's brains are scrambled.

A very concise answer is there; you are just not competent enough to understand it yet, grasshopper.

Do you really think a wall will keep out illegals?

It will keep out 95% of them. Walls and fences have worked every time they have been tried.

When you you leftwing turds going to admit that you don't want to seal the border?

Who do you think you're fooling?

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Just cause you can't get over a wall does not mean 99.99999999999999999999% of the population can't.

Make it 15' high, top it with 15' of razor wire humming with 50,000 volts and 100 amps, surround it with a 100-yard no-man's land, covered with machine guns on motion detectors and liberally sown with land mines. Patrol it with armed helicopters with "shoot on sight" ROE. Attempting to cross illegally should be nearly impossible and almost-always fatal.

ROFL... if anyone's gonna be armed with helicopters it will be the illegals not our people. We would never shoot our illegal guests who are crossing. We are begging them to come over illegally. Why would we shoot them?

Regardless if you were to spend a trillion dollars a year protecting our border with our entire armed forces... the illegals would just come by boat or visa and stay illegally.

You're a waste of bandwidth. All your claims are idiotic. The idea that illegal entry cannot be drastically reduced no matter how much money the government spends is absurd.

The coast guard already interdicts boats trying to enter U.S waters to search for illegal drugs. If that was an effective means of aliens getting in, they would already be doing it, but they don't.

 

[bripat9643]

It will keep out 95% of them. Walls and fences have worked every time they have been tried.

When you you leftwing turds going to admit that you don't want to seal the border?

Who do you think you're fooling?

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Just cause you can't get over a wall does not mean 99.99999999999999999999% of the population can't.

It will take them a lot of work to get over a well designed wall. Meanwhile the border patrol will be waiting for them when they step foot on the other side.

The Israeli wall works astoundingly well, so what do the Israelis know that liberals are too stupid to figure out?

You are comparing apples to oranges. Clearly you've never seen our southern border. You can't wall it or fence it... there's already a RIVER there and it does nothing to slow people down.

False premise. Nobody having the stones to do it is not the same as "it can't be done".

We don't have a functional border patrol. We use our border patrol as bus drivers to bring illegal mexicans up to processing centers put them up in nice digs before we give them money and food and bus them around the country to collect welfare. ROFL[/qauote]

I agree: they should instead be shooting illegals on sight.

The Israeli fence is minuscule by comparison and it's near heavy population already. Our border is in the middle of nowhere for thousands of miles. It's like comparing paring a fence at a prison (israel) to a fence in the middle of the sahara desert... its a silly comparison.

What you need to take care of the border is men and a mission to stop them from coming over vs. help them come over.

Yes: wall off Mexico. Kill anyone trying to cross.

Not a false premise. FACT. Both republicans and democrats have NO INTENTION OF STOPPING THE FLOW AT THE BORDER.

That's definitely true of Democrats, and it's also true of establishment Republicans, but the vast majority of voters want illegal immigration stopped, and the politicians don't dare vote for an amnesty bill.

 

[Flopper]

The problem of illegal immigration has historical been about jobs. However, today there's a relatively new ingredient, families. We have so many Latin Americans in the US, both legal and illegally that families in Latin America will do what ever is necessary to be with their family and loved ones. As long as we reward illegals with jobs and our laws make it difficult or impossible for love ones to be their families, you won't be able to build a wall high enough to keep them out.

Wrong. One thing they won't do is go back to Mexico. That shows this claim is just a just another excuse for doing nothing.

Actually they do. Both legal and illegal Mexican Americans living in the US cross back into Mexico quite often. Many of the those apprehended attempting to cross into the US are illegal immigrants returning to the states.

If you mean they don't often return permanently to Mexico, you're probably correct, however I was addressing Latin American entering into the US illegal to be with family and loved ones.

The real reason they are entering is to get an American job. Any other claims are just plain bullshit.

Family in Latin American countries is a big. deal. People will travel hundreds of miles often on foot and the most awful means of public transportation to attend a marriage ceremony, a funeral, or just be at the side of loved one. If the family happens to live in the US, there are a number of obstacles particular if you happen to be poor.

First, you have to get a Mexican passport which requires certified copies of documents, paying a fee equivalent to $74 in the US. Then you have to get a US Tourist Visa and Boarder Crossing Card at a cost equivalent to $190US a person. Getting the Visa requires you submit various legal documents and have a successful interview with an agent of the US Bureau of Consulate Affairs, in which you must proof that you have sufficient funds to complete your trip and that you will return to Mexico. The entire process can take months and the cost can be over $400 a person. This process encourages poor Mexicans to illegally enter the US and if they do they often remain in the US.

I am not sure the costs are a deterrent. I think illegal crossings are an option only when the visas get rejected. The violence has increased significantly in recent years ( specially in the north of Mexico) and even poor people would rather pay $1,000 than risk being killed by one of the blodthirsty cartels. A "trusted" coyote might be the second best option. The worst option would be traversing the desert by yourself.
Just as close to a million (mostly legal ?) retirees have migrated from the US to Mexico, because they get a higher standard of living , millions of mexicans ( mostly illegal) migrate to the US for the same reason.

It's not that the Visas for the poor Mexicans are rejected; they just aren't approved without further information. The authorities must be convinced that the person is going to return to Mexico when the Visa expires which means the person has family, home, a job, and ties to the community plus he has adequate financial resources to make the trip. We know from interviews with detainees that this is a significant reason for not seeking legal entry. We also know that Mexicans with jobs and financial resources have little problem in getting tourist visas.

In 2014, their were over 170 million legal boarder crossing from Mexico, mostly Mexicans. There is no way of knowing the number that entered illegally but estimates place that number at a very small number compared to legal entries.

Despite all the hoopla about the hoards of Mexicans pooing across our southern boarders, the fact is a very few small percentage of Mexicans entering the country do so illegally and that number is at an all time low.

U.S. border apprehensions of Mexicans fall to historic lows

 

[CultureCitizen]

You think some ignorant Mexican peasant has $1000 to pay for the visa process? Most of them also can't afford to pay coyotes. They walk across the border because that's what they can afford. It isn't that hard.

Yes they do. Specially if the have a relative in the US. As Flooper said family ties are strong, even an uncle or cousin might be willing to send the money.
I am not sure about the coyote stats, and it might be hard to get any hard data. I don't personally know ( or heard of) anyone who has crossed the dessert by himself, but I've heard about persons who got to the US using a coyote or their tourist visa... but that's purely anecdotal evidence.

 

[RKMBrown]

The real reason they are entering is to get an American job. Any other claims are just plain bullshit.

Family in Latin American countries is a big. deal. People will travel hundreds of miles often on foot and the most awful means of public transportation to attend a marriage ceremony, a funeral, or just be at the side of loved one. If the family happens to live in the US, there are a number of obstacles particular if you happen to be poor.

First, you have to get a Mexican passport which requires certified copies of documents, paying a fee equivalent to $74 in the US. Then you have to get a US Tourist Visa and Boarder Crossing Card at a cost equivalent to $190US a person. Getting the Visa requires you submit various legal documents and have a successful interview with an agent of the US Bureau of Consulate Affairs, in which you must proof that you have sufficient funds to complete your trip and that you will return to Mexico. The entire process can take months and the cost can be over $400 a person. This process encourages poor Mexicans to illegally enter the US and if they do they often remain in the US.

I am not sure the costs are a deterrent. I think illegal crossings are an option only when the visas get rejected. The violence has increased significantly in recent years ( specially in the north of Mexico) and even poor people would rather pay $1,000 than risk being killed by one of the blodthirsty cartels. A "trusted" coyote might be the second best option. The worst option would be traversing the desert by yourself.
Just as close to a million (mostly legal ?) retirees have migrated from the US to Mexico, because they get a higher standard of living , millions of mexicans ( mostly illegal) migrate to the US for the same reason.

Your wasting your time trying to get any kind of coherent answer from danielpos. The guy's brains are scrambled.

A very concise answer is there; you are just not competent enough to understand it yet, grasshopper.

Do you really think a wall will keep out illegals?

It will keep out 95% of them. Walls and fences have worked every time they have been tried.

When you you leftwing turds going to admit that you don't want to seal the border?

Who do you think you're fooling?

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Just cause you can't get over a wall does not mean 99.99999999999999999999% of the population can't.

Make it 15' high, top it with 15' of razor wire humming with 50,000 volts and 100 amps, surround it with a 100-yard no-man's land, covered with machine guns on motion detectors and liberally sown with land mines. Patrol it with armed helicopters with "shoot on sight" ROE. Attempting to cross illegally should be nearly impossible and almost-always fatal.

ROFL... if anyone's gonna be armed with helicopters it will be the illegals not our people. We would never shoot our illegal guests who are crossing. We are begging them to come over illegally. Why would we shoot them?

Regardless if you were to spend a trillion dollars a year protecting our border with our entire armed forces... the illegals would just come by boat or visa and stay illegally.

You're a waste of bandwidth. All your claims are idiotic. The idea that illegal entry cannot be drastically reduced no matter how much money the government spends is absurd.

The coast guard already interdicts boats trying to enter U.S waters to search for illegal drugs. If that was an effective means of aliens getting in, they would already be doing it, but they don't.

ROFL you think the coast guard has slowed illegal drug smuggling? You'd have to be the biggest moron on the face of the planet to believe illegals don't come by boat. The biggest moron on the planet. I lived in South Florida. I still visit South Florida. I spent a lot of time out in the water. I used to listen to the planes fly in dropping mj bales and cocaine in the everglades when I lived in corals springs. I'd watch them pick the stuff up with air boats and such as we fished out in the glades. ROFL... Some get caught but it's a small small percentage and more for show than actual security.

 

[bripat9643]

You think some ignorant Mexican peasant has $1000 to pay for the visa process? Most of them also can't afford to pay coyotes. They walk across the border because that's what they can afford. It isn't that hard.

Yes they do. Specially if the have a relative in the US. As Flooper said family ties are strong, even an uncle or cousin might be willing to send the money.
I am not sure about the coyote stats, and it might be hard to get any hard data. I don't personally know ( or heard of) anyone who has crossed the dessert by himself, but I've heard about persons who got to the US using a coyote or their tourist visa... but that's purely anecdotal evidence.

If family ties are so strong, then why did the original family member leave his family for a job in the United States? That who line of argument is total horseshit. it's just another excuse for doing nothing. I'm sure you've heard the saying "Excuse are like assholes . . . . . ."