BUILD THE WALL. I don't give a damn who pays for it. Me, you or the man on the moon. Build it.

[Flopper]

Exactly if they found 80 tunnels be assured there's plenty more along the border that they haven't found. A 1000 mile wall will produce 1000 holes and tunnels underneath the wall.

That's what ground-penetrating radar, motion and geological sensors, and other technological capabilities are designed to locate. The Mexicans would have to build hundreds, if not thousands of feet down, to avoid being detected, which is extremely dangerous.

And how about a few stationary dedicated satellite and a hundred blackhawks loaded with troops 24 hours a day. Since Mexico is paying the bill, the sky is the limit, right.

Keep in mind that much of the billion dollars in technology in use today isn't working. What might be a drug smuggler or a migrant, all too often turns out to be a cow, or the wind, or some other false alarm, which may be why the agents seem to pay the constant beeps from intrusion alarms little mind.

 

[BrokeLoser]

The official rationale was horseshit.

Anyone believing the East German government - even at a distance of 40 or 50 years - is not a serious discussion partner.

Let's try some reading comprehension.

What I am obviously not saying:
"The Berlin Wall was meant to keep fascists out of East Germany."

What anyone with half a brain can see that I'm actually saying:
East Germany, like the Trump administration re: the wall on the Mexican border, claimed that their wall was meant to keep out undesirables. Obviously East Germany's stated reason for the wall was nonsense, but so might Trump's be.

Oh make no mistake, the wall is definitely needed to keep out "undesirables". No one doing well in Mexico is trying to get here. We get the most desperate of desperate. Uneducated, third world types with no moral compass, the lowest grade of human is what we get. We get the type that just can't make it in our system without a lifelong hand holding from government. They can't qualify to hold jobs that pay enough for their families of seven that are forever growing due to ignorance.
This is a no-brainer for a third grader...All people have to do is pull their head out of their utopian ass for a second to see it.

Alternatively we could just stop offering welfare completely, not build a wall, and save money all around.

Welfare is another subject.
We spend 113 billion on illegals every year...the cost to build the wall and heavily defend it doesn't get anywhere close to that figure. It's a retarded debate to spend any time on.

You have said several times that illegals are costing the country 113 billion dollars so I decided to research the figure.

This figure comes from a report done by FAIR,
Federation for American Immigration Reform, (link below). They advocate changes in immigration policy which would reduce or eliminate immigration, both legal and illegal. It is founded by Charles Stewart Mott, a leader of many anti-immigration groups, so one would not expect and impartial analysis which it isn't. Here are some of the problems with this report:

• Taking into account payments made by undocumented immigrants, the actually number drops to 99 billion.
• FAIR includes 3.4 million children which are US citizens which reduces the figure to 90 billion.
• FAIR uses and estimate of 13 billion total illegal immigrants. Homeland Security estimates 11.3 billion and Pew estimates 11.4. Using the more realist estimate of these organization, the amount drops to 76 billion.
• The FAIR report makes the broad assumption that illegal immigrants contribute nothing to the economy. Their jobs would be filled by America citizens at the same pay. No one with any knowledge of the labor market would agree.
• FAIR also includes about $2.47 billion in fraudulent use of Medicaid, although there is no data to support this.
• The report also assumes that all children of illegal immigrants are in school all the time when in fact we know that the children of many illegal immigrants attend school much less than half the year.
• The report also assumes that all children of illegal immigrants require special treatment in school, primarily language assistance which is again not true.

Yet, Trump and his supporters continue to quote this report as if were Gospel handed down from the Divine. This follows with most of what comes from Trump, huge exaggerations with little basis in fact. Other anti-immigration groups have estimates, all of which are much less that 113 billion. Pro-immigration groups claim the contributions of illegal immigrants out weigh the costs, a statement I doubt but it may not be too far from the truth.
http://www.fairus.org/DocServer/research-pub/USCostStudy_2013upd.pdf
Trump says illegal immigration costs $113 billion a year

Before I engage, let me ask you a few things:
1) I'm sure you really, really want to believe that illegals cost American's nothing...but based on all your due diligence and an extensive collection of data what do you estimate the annual cost to be? What kind of silly, desperate semantics are we really playing here?

2) How do you put a number on the damage they are doing to America on a social level? Infrastructure improvements to accommodate population growth as they procreate like rodents? The recreation of more of their system dependent same? The uninsured and underinsured drivers involved in accidents? The cash paid to day laborers paid under the table? The trash, dirty diapers and filth they leave behind everywhere they go?

3) What part of Mexico are you and your recent descendants from?

 

[Correll]

YOu are a liar and a fool.

I'm lying about thinking it seems fair to compare politicians to other politicians? I feel strangely confident that I'm not.

Nope. YOu know that it is unfair and you are just doing it to smear your enemy.

The reasons for a Wall with Mexico are clear and obvious.

Your pretense that you can't see it is nonsense. Please consider your lies dismissed.

That something seems unfair to you is different from saying that I'm lying about not believing it's unfair. And yes, politicians and governments are my enemy. Something conservatives may have agreed with under Obama. Suddenly not so much.

Agreed. I am saying that you know you are being unfair, and are actively choosing to be a troll.


The differences from Trump's Wall and the Iron Curtain are such that it is not credible that you think it is a reasonable comparison.

YOu are lying.

You think it's different. Rational people choose not to put their trust in politicians.

Blind skepticism is just as nonsensical as blind faith.

Trump's Wall is the enforcement of democratically enacted and just laws, expressing the Will of the People.

 

[Correll]

Funny how you have more of an issue with the person that wants to protect Americans, than the ones selling poison to our young.

That doesn't sell. None of the goose-steppers are worried about border-security. You just want to keep out Mexicans in general. I doubt you'll even deny it.

Your godwin and race card play are noted and dismissed. Also, screw you.

My point stands.

As predicted, no denial of your true concerns.

The reasons for a Wall with Mexico are clear and obvious.

Because people speaking another language frighten and confuse the rednecks?

I already told you that your race card was noted and dismissed.

Please now consider it, and you ridiculed, you piece of shit.

The reasons for the Wall are clear and obvious, and only a fucking liar would say otherwise.

 

[Correll]

You should follow your own advice. The wall is "PART" of the whole solution.

Think.......try it sometime.

Every goal that you have in-mind can be accomplished without The Wall, and for much less money and fuss.

Then the wall is no cause for concern. If it will do nothing, then you have no reason to oppose it.

Oh, the wall will do a lot, most of it bad. It will create major problems concerning water rights, become and environmental and human rights disaster and an eye sore for many small towns and villages on both sides of the boarder.

I doubt Trump will be so foolish as to build a wall in very remote areas. Border walls work in densely populated areas such as Israel's wall in the West Bank where slowing down a person trying to illegally enter by five or 10 minutes can make a difference to border patrol. But when the migrant trying to enter is traveling over remote mountains and deserts for three days, using a fence or wall to slow them down by a few minutes doesn't have the same effect. In fact, it borders on the trivial.

The number of illegal crossings a day over the 2000 mile boarder average out to be one person a day for every 4 miles. However most the crossing are not in remote areas. In some places where there will be tens of millions of dollars in walls, there would not be an attempted crossing once a month.

No stand-up American who can understand basic math will care about the "tens of millions of dollars" being spent on the wall in remote areas since we will be saving up to 113 billion per year moving forward.
(You have conveniently missed my previous post)
"It's not worth discussing" because the truth hurts....is that what you really meant? Come on bud...stop with the semantics...pull your head out of your ass for just one minute and don't lie to yourself. The estimated costs to build the wall pales in comparison to the estimated costs related to harboring illegals (113 billion PER YEAR) and anyone with a third grade education knows it....What has been disapproved about anchor babies? I'd like to hear the babble."

The point is building a wall will create huge problems with our relationship with Mexico, who we need as a trading partner while doing little to stop illegal entry. It's creating a huge division in America in a time when we need to be working together.

While the wall is intended to stop illegal immigration, it will increase it as millions of poor Mexicans cross our borders while the wall is being built. The falling peso, rising unemployment, and threats of a trade war is already taking a toll on jobs in Mexico. As jobs for the poor decrease, migration north will increase substantially just as it has happen time after time.

The ease of going over, around, and under a wall in a thousand mile of remote desert and mountains makes the project nearly useless. Walls are effective in densely populated areas, not in remote areas.

Trump describes the building the wall as fast, easy, and beautiful. That simply is not realistic. No one knows what the wall will cost. There have been estimates from 15 to 25 billion but like most government projects it could easily double which seems quite likely when you consider the obstacles. For example a thousand miles of wall that run across hundreds of ranches, farms, villages, and private homes will have to be acquired by purchase and long costly court legal battles. In addition there is tribal land which can be a huge legal challenge. In many places the wall would have to be build walls in places where you just don't built walls through gorges, rivers, and mountainous terrain.

It took the goverment 7 years to build a 700 miles fence on the boarder. This project could easily last 10 to 15 years and that brings into question as to what would be it's future with a democratic congress or president.

Trump is simply going about solving the country's illegal immigration problem the wrong way. Legal defenses funds to defend migrants from deportations are popping up in cities around the country. LA has just proposed a 10 million dollar fund. Federal judges in 4 states have blocked the key provisions in Trump's ban on Muslims entering the country. In the big cities in both red and blue states where Trump will need the most help in removing illegal immigrants, his plans has met with lukewarm support to outright hostility. Some of our largest cities have said they would rather lose federal funds than submit to Trump's orders.

Trump says he loves a good fight. Well, it looks like he's going to get one. Unfortunately, there will be no winners in this fight.

We do not need better relations with Mexico. We need Mexico to stop being dicks.


And Trump's Wall isn't tearing this nation apart, lefties being assholes is.

 

[Correll]

Their actions, such as choosing to violate our Sovereignty, is their responsibility.

Keep in mind it is not the goverment of Mexico that violates US Sovereignty, nor is it the 120 million people that live there and never cross our boarder illegally.

Just as the US is not responsible for acts of of a small percent of our citizens abroad, neither is Mexico. I really don't understand why so many people think it's Mexico's responsibility to secure our boarders. Are we really that inept that we need their help?

If our citizens were flowing into Mexico, against the wishes of Mexico, their government would complain and our government would take steps to address the problem.

Mexico is responsible for their actions.

There is no US law that makes entering Mexico without permission illegal just as there is no Mexican law that makes it illegal for their people to enter the US. It is the responsibility of each country to protect their boarders. Trying to extort money out the Mexican government because we have failed to protect our boarder is just plain wrong. All of Trump's raving about Mexican rapist, murders, and drug dealers crossing the boarder does not alter the fact that it's our job to stop them, not Mexico. Trump is just trying to raise the level of hate between Americans and Mexicans to get support for his wall.

If your neighbor leaves his door open and you walk in, and help yourself to his stuff, he might be stupid, but you are still a trespasser and a thief.

Save your "hate" talk. We have a real beef with our crappy neighbor to the South. Don't be one of those assholes who try to shut down debate on the issue by race baiting.

It was presidential candidate Trump that declared war on Mexico with his racial charged hate filed campaign rhetoric.
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

First off, the Mexican goverment is not sending anyone to this country and they are not responsibly for the security of our boarders nor the actions of their people in the US.

In 2015, an estimated 175,000 people illegally crossed our southern boarder and of those nearly 40% were not even Mexican.

There are 122 million people live in Mexico. For the most part, they are a hard working proud people with families that would never consider abandoning their country and home to illegally enter the US. Less than .5% of the Mexican population illegally cross our boarder. No wonder so many Mexicans are insulted by Trump's hate filled racist remarks.

If the US leaves it's door open and Mexicans and other Latin Americas enter, is Mexico responsible? No, because Mexico like the US is not responsible for what their people do outside of their country. It is the responsibility of the US to protect it's boarders and trying to extort money from Mexico to do so is just plain wrong. It is a clear admission to the world that the US is not capable of protecting it's own borders.

I already addressed your attempt to put the responsibility for Mexican actions on US.

If you enter a house that the owner foolishly left unlocked, and take stuff, you are still a trespasser and a thief.

Your race baiting is noted and dismissed. Knock that bullshit off.

Mexico is a shitty neighbor. THey are responsible for their policy of encouraging, tacitly and even explicitly their unemployed and/or criminals coming here against our laws.

 

[Darkwind]

You should follow your own advice. The wall is "PART" of the whole solution.

Think.......try it sometime.

Every goal that you have in-mind can be accomplished without The Wall, and for much less money and fuss.

Then the wall is no cause for concern. If it will do nothing, then you have no reason to oppose it.

Oh, the wall will do a lot, most of it bad. It will create major problems concerning water rights, become and environmental and human rights disaster and an eye sore for many small towns and villages on both sides of the boarder.

I doubt Trump will be so foolish as to build a wall in very remote areas. Border walls work in densely populated areas such as Israel's wall in the West Bank where slowing down a person trying to illegally enter by five or 10 minutes can make a difference to border patrol. But when the migrant trying to enter is traveling over remote mountains and deserts for three days, using a fence or wall to slow them down by a few minutes doesn't have the same effect. In fact, it borders on the trivial.

The number of illegal crossings a day over the 2000 mile boarder average out to be one person a day for every 4 miles. However most the crossing are not in remote areas. In some places where there will be tens of millions of dollars in walls, there would not be an attempted crossing once a month.

No stand-up American who can understand basic math will care about the "tens of millions of dollars" being spent on the wall in remote areas since we will be saving up to 113 billion per year moving forward.
(You have conveniently missed my previous post)
"It's not worth discussing" because the truth hurts....is that what you really meant? Come on bud...stop with the semantics...pull your head out of your ass for just one minute and don't lie to yourself. The estimated costs to build the wall pales in comparison to the estimated costs related to harboring illegals (113 billion PER YEAR) and anyone with a third grade education knows it....What has been disapproved about anchor babies? I'd like to hear the babble."

The point is building a wall will create huge problems with our relationship with Mexico, who we need as a trading partner while doing little to stop illegal entry. It's creating a huge division in America in a time when we need to be working together.

While the wall is intended to stop illegal immigration, it will increase it as millions of poor Mexicans cross our borders while the wall is being built. The falling peso, rising unemployment, and threats of a trade war is already taking a toll on jobs in Mexico. As jobs for the poor decrease, migration north will increase substantially just as it has happen time after time.

The ease of going over, around, and under a wall in a thousand mile of remote desert and mountains makes the project nearly useless. Walls are effective in densely populated areas, not in remote areas.

Trump describes the building the wall as fast, easy, and beautiful. That simply is not realistic. No one knows what the wall will cost. There have been estimates from 15 to 25 billion but like most government projects it could easily double which seems quite likely when you consider the obstacles. For example a thousand miles of wall that run across hundreds of ranches, farms, villages, and private homes will have to be acquired by purchase and long costly court legal battles. In addition there is tribal land which can be a huge legal challenge. In many places the wall would have to be build walls in places where you just don't built walls through gorges, rivers, and mountainous terrain.

It took the goverment 7 years to build a 700 miles fence on the boarder. This project could easily last 10 to 15 years and that brings into question as to what would be it's future with a democratic congress or president.

Trump is simply going about solving the country's illegal immigration problem the wrong way. Legal defenses funds to defend migrants from deportations are popping up in cities around the country. LA has just proposed a 10 million dollar fund. Federal judges in 4 states have blocked the key provisions in Trump's ban on Muslims entering the country. In the big cities in both red and blue states where Trump will need the most help in removing illegal immigrants, his plans has met with lukewarm support to outright hostility. Some of our largest cities have said they would rather lose federal funds than submit to Trump's orders.

Trump says he loves a good fight. Well, it looks like he's going to get one. Unfortunately, there will be no winners in this fight.

I'm sorry, what?!?

Our relationship with Mexico? Are you saying this with a straight face?

We ask them to control the flow of their citizens across our border. They say fuck you.
We ask them to control the drug cartels and the flow of drugs across our border. They say fuck you.
We ask them to balance their trade deficit with us and would you like to care to hear what their response is? Thats right, they say fuck you.

They have placed ALL of the burden of the flow of their criminal element to our nation, the overburdening of our social systems with their outcasts and societal dregs and you are actually going to say that our standing up for ourselvers is going to hurt our relationship with them?

That is like saying don't fight back against the school bully, you might hurt your relationship with him.

The rest of your post is opinionated drivel.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

I've never actually believed a wall itself would be built. I'm all for building it however, and it's not important to me if Mexico pays or not.

The main thing to me, is we finally have a president that might actually do something about illegal immigration.
I hope this not only includes better border security, but also includes going after employers who hire illegals.

 

[Timmy]

Funny how you have more of an issue with the person that wants to protect Americans, than the ones selling poison to our young.

That doesn't sell. None of the goose-steppers are worried about border-security. You just want to keep out Mexicans in general. I doubt you'll even deny it.

Your godwin and race card play are noted and dismissed. Also, screw you.

My point stands.

As predicted, no denial of your true concerns.

The reasons for a Wall with Mexico are clear and obvious.

Because people speaking another language frighten and confuse the rednecks?

I already told you that your race card was noted and dismissed.

Please now consider it, and you ridiculed, you piece of shit.

The reasons for the Wall are clear and obvious, and only a fucking liar would say otherwise.

Why no Canadian wall then ?

 

[Lakhota]

PAY THE PALESTINIANS. I don't give a damn who pays for it. Me, you or the man on the moon. Pay it.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Funny how you have more of an issue with the person that wants to protect Americans, than the ones selling poison to our young.

That doesn't sell. None of the goose-steppers are worried about border-security. You just want to keep out Mexicans in general. I doubt you'll even deny it.

Your godwin and race card play are noted and dismissed. Also, screw you.

My point stands.

As predicted, no denial of your true concerns.

The reasons for a Wall with Mexico are clear and obvious.

Because people speaking another language frighten and confuse the rednecks?

I already told you that your race card was noted and dismissed.

Please now consider it, and you ridiculed, you piece of shit.

The reasons for the Wall are clear and obvious, and only a fucking liar would say otherwise.

Why no Canadian wall then ?

 

[BrokeLoser]

Funny how you have more of an issue with the person that wants to protect Americans, than the ones selling poison to our young.

That doesn't sell. None of the goose-steppers are worried about border-security. You just want to keep out Mexicans in general. I doubt you'll even deny it.

Your godwin and race card play are noted and dismissed. Also, screw you.

My point stands.

As predicted, no denial of your true concerns.

The reasons for a Wall with Mexico are clear and obvious.

Because people speaking another language frighten and confuse the rednecks?

I already told you that your race card was noted and dismissed.

Please now consider it, and you ridiculed, you piece of shit.

The reasons for the Wall are clear and obvious, and only a fucking liar would say otherwise.

Why no Canadian wall then ?

Canadian's, the few who migrate here bring an iQ, the English language and their check book with them. They have dignity, pride and a moral compass. And they don't procreate like cockroaches.
You must have missed my earlier post. (See below)

"We don't complain about Canadians...we only complain about Mexicans because they inherently tend to be uneducated, filthy humans by default. It's just their culture...they're third world, a slight grade above those plucked from jungles. A quick trip to Tijuana Mexico with two working eyeballs will tell anyone what type of human we get from the far south. They literally destroy every home and neighborhood the settle in...it's no secret bud...sorry the truth hurts."

 

[Correll]

Funny how you have more of an issue with the person that wants to protect Americans, than the ones selling poison to our young.

That doesn't sell. None of the goose-steppers are worried about border-security. You just want to keep out Mexicans in general. I doubt you'll even deny it.

Your godwin and race card play are noted and dismissed. Also, screw you.

My point stands.

As predicted, no denial of your true concerns.

The reasons for a Wall with Mexico are clear and obvious.

Because people speaking another language frighten and confuse the rednecks?

I already told you that your race card was noted and dismissed.

Please now consider it, and you ridiculed, you piece of shit.

The reasons for the Wall are clear and obvious, and only a fucking liar would say otherwise.

Why no Canadian wall then ?

Because millions of shitty Third World illegals are not pouring across that border. Obviously...

 

[Flopper]

Maybe. I certainly don't trust politicians, and I'm not sure why conservatives suddenly do. Oh, wait, yes I do.

Trump was never a politician

Weird. I'm pretty sure he just spent well over a year campaigning for a political office and won. That would make him a politician.

Do you think he really thought he would win?

Do I think the textbook definition of a narcissist thought he would win? I'd say it's a fair bet that he did. Maybe not, but it's irrelevant. He ran a political campaign, thus he is a politician.

NEGATIVE!
He's a masterful problem solver playing the role of politician.
A politician finds the most crooked and distorted route between point A and point B
A problem solver finds the shortest straightest route from point A to point B

You're welcome for the free lesson.

A masterful problem solver? More likely a masterful conman.

You think his plan for keeping Muslims out the country was that of a master problem solver.
He gives no notice to airlines, so they are putting people on planes for the US that will be denied entry. Immigration agents have no idea what they're doing because there were no procedures for them to follow. Some people from banned countries walk right through immigration and others were detained. Families waiting for loved one at immigration were being told nothing. The airlines would confirm only that that the plane landed. Crowds gathered and there were protest in over dozen airports. Several Muslims countries announced they were considering retaliation. The Olympic Committee is concerned about Muslim athletes training in the US for the 2020 Olympics. Several Universities have told students from Muslim countries not leave the US because they may not be able to return. 4 federal judges granted temporary stays on key parts of the orders.

And what did our master problem solver have to say about how well his plan is working. Tremendous, just tremendous, look at the airports across the countries. Viewers did and saw chaos, confusion, and worried family members.

Great Job Mr. Master Problem Solver. How is someone who can't smoothly pull off something as simple as this going to handle a project as big as the Wall which will effect millions of people for years?

 

[Correll]

Trump was never a politician

Weird. I'm pretty sure he just spent well over a year campaigning for a political office and won. That would make him a politician.

Do you think he really thought he would win?

Do I think the textbook definition of a narcissist thought he would win? I'd say it's a fair bet that he did. Maybe not, but it's irrelevant. He ran a political campaign, thus he is a politician.

NEGATIVE!
He's a masterful problem solver playing the role of politician.
A politician finds the most crooked and distorted route between point A and point B
A problem solver finds the shortest straightest route from point A to point B

You're welcome for the free lesson.

A masterful problem solver? More likely a masterful conman.

You think his plan for keeping Muslims out the country was that of a master problem solver.
He gives no notice to airlines, so they are putting people on planes for the US that will be denied entry. Immigration agents have no idea what they're doing because there were no procedures for them to follow. Some people from banned countries walk right through immigration and others were detained. Families waiting for loved one at immigration were being told nothing. The airlines would confirm only that that the plane landed. Crowds gathered and there were protest in over dozen airports. Several Muslims countries announced they were consider retaliation. The Olympic Committee is concerned about Muslim athletes training in the US for the 2020 Olympics. Several Universities have told students from Muslim countries not leave the US because they may not be able to return. 4 federal judges granted temporary stays on key parts of the orders.

And what did our master problem solver have to say about how well his plan is working. Tremendous, just tremendous, look at the airports across the countries. Views did and saw chaos, confusion, and worried family members.

Great Job Mr. Master Problem Solver. How is someone who can't smoothly pull off something as simple as this going to handle a project as big as the Wall which will effect millions of people for years.

You would prefer he wait?

Screw that. We've been waiting for some Common Sense for far too long.

So a couple people got stuck as airports. whoopdie freaking due.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Trump was never a politician

Weird. I'm pretty sure he just spent well over a year campaigning for a political office and won. That would make him a politician.

Do you think he really thought he would win?

Do I think the textbook definition of a narcissist thought he would win? I'd say it's a fair bet that he did. Maybe not, but it's irrelevant. He ran a political campaign, thus he is a politician.

NEGATIVE!
He's a masterful problem solver playing the role of politician.
A politician finds the most crooked and distorted route between point A and point B
A problem solver finds the shortest straightest route from point A to point B

You're welcome for the free lesson.

A masterful problem solver? More likely a masterful conman.

You think his plan for keeping Muslims out the country was that of a master problem solver.
He gives no notice to airlines, so they are putting people on planes for the US that will be denied entry. Immigration agents have no idea what they're doing because there were no procedures for them to follow. Some people from banned countries walk right through immigration and others were detained. Families waiting for loved one at immigration were being told nothing. The airlines would confirm only that that the plane landed. Crowds gathered and there were protest in over dozen airports. Several Muslims countries announced they were considering retaliation. The Olympic Committee is concerned about Muslim athletes training in the US for the 2020 Olympics. Several Universities have told students from Muslim countries not leave the US because they may not be able to return. 4 federal judges granted temporary stays on key parts of the orders.

And what did our master problem solver have to say about how well his plan is working. Tremendous, just tremendous, look at the airports across the countries. Viewers did and saw chaos, confusion, and worried family members.

Great Job Mr. Master Problem Solver. How is someone who can't smoothly pull off something as simple as this going to handle a project as big as the Wall which will effect millions of people for years?

See that's a large part of your and your people's problem...you're always playing fiddle to the 2% and can't ever give a fuck about the greater percentages of American's....you crazy loons! How do you make sense out of your ignorant bullshit? Pull your heads from deep in your asses for once....PLEASE! WTF happened to all of you as children?

 

[Flopper]

Let's try some reading comprehension.

What I am obviously not saying:
"The Berlin Wall was meant to keep fascists out of East Germany."

What anyone with half a brain can see that I'm actually saying:
East Germany, like the Trump administration re: the wall on the Mexican border, claimed that their wall was meant to keep out undesirables. Obviously East Germany's stated reason for the wall was nonsense, but so might Trump's be.

Oh make no mistake, the wall is definitely needed to keep out "undesirables". No one doing well in Mexico is trying to get here. We get the most desperate of desperate. Uneducated, third world types with no moral compass, the lowest grade of human is what we get. We get the type that just can't make it in our system without a lifelong hand holding from government. They can't qualify to hold jobs that pay enough for their families of seven that are forever growing due to ignorance.
This is a no-brainer for a third grader...All people have to do is pull their head out of their utopian ass for a second to see it.

Alternatively we could just stop offering welfare completely, not build a wall, and save money all around.

Welfare is another subject.
We spend 113 billion on illegals every year...the cost to build the wall and heavily defend it doesn't get anywhere close to that figure. It's a retarded debate to spend any time on.

You have said several times that illegals are costing the country 113 billion dollars so I decided to research the figure.

This figure comes from a report done by FAIR,

Federation for American Immigration Reform, (link below). They advocate changes in immigration policy which would reduce or eliminate immigration, both legal and illegal. It is founded by Charles Stewart Mott, a leader of many anti-immigration groups, so one would not expect and impartial analysis which it isn't. Here are some of the problems with this report:

• Taking into account payments made by undocumented immigrants, the actually number drops to 99 billion.
• FAIR includes 3.4 million children which are US citizens which reduces the figure to 90 billion.
• FAIR uses and estimate of 13 billion total illegal immigrants. Homeland Security estimates 11.3 billion and Pew estimates 11.4. Using the more realist estimate of these organization, the amount drops to 76 billion.
• The FAIR report makes the broad assumption that illegal immigrants contribute nothing to the economy. Their jobs would be filled by America citizens at the same pay. No one with any knowledge of the labor market would agree.
• FAIR also includes about $2.47 billion in fraudulent use of Medicaid, although there is no data to support this.
• The report also assumes that all children of illegal immigrants are in school all the time when in fact we know that the children of many illegal immigrants attend school much less than half the year.
• The report also assumes that all children of illegal immigrants require special treatment in school, primarily language assistance which is again not true.

Yet, Trump and his supporters continue to quote this report as if were Gospel handed down from the Divine. This follows with most of what comes from Trump, huge exaggerations with little basis in fact. Other anti-immigration groups have estimates, all of which are much less that 113 billion. Pro-immigration groups claim the contributions of illegal immigrants out weigh the costs, a statement I doubt but it may not be too far from the truth.
http://www.fairus.org/DocServer/research-pub/USCostStudy_2013upd.pdf
Trump says illegal immigration costs $113 billion a year

Before I engage, let me ask you a few things:
1) I'm sure you really, really want to believe that illegals cost American's nothing...but based on all your due diligence and an extensive collection of data what do you estimate the annual cost to be? What kind of silly, desperate semantics are we really playing here?

2) How do you put a number on the damage they are doing to America on a social level? Infrastructure improvements to accommodate population growth as they procreate like rodents? The recreation of more of their system dependent same? The uninsured and underinsured drivers involved in accidents? The cash paid to day laborers paid under the table? The trash, dirty diapers and filth they leave behind everywhere they go?

3) What part of Mexico are you and your recent descendants from?

I don't usually answer questions like this but I'll make a special exception just for you.
1) I don't know and no one else does because undocumented immigrants are undocumented. I'm ok with estimates as long as they are treated as such. My best guess is that undocumented immigrants cost the federal and state governments in services about 50 to 80 billion a year. However, there are offsets. Undocumented immigrants pay sales taxes, property taxes, incomes taxes, Social Security and Medicare. They also perform jobs that most Americans would only do at a much higher wage. I do believe we need to rid ourselves of undocumented immigrants but not the way Trump plans.

2) You are not describing undocumented immigrants per se, but those living in abject poverty. There is no way you can look at a person and accurately determine if they are undocumented. People without documentation live in exactly the same neighborhoods as those that are documented. A few live in wealthy neighbors, many live in low income working class neighborhoods and others live in poverty stricken areas. The families are mostly Hispanic but are mixed. Some are US citizens and some aren't. Some have work permits and some don't.

60% of undocumented immigrants come from Mexico. The remaining 40% come from all over the world. Unlike Mexican immigrants, most of them are not living in poverty. They not only have jobs but many have good jobs working in major corporations pulling down good salaries. For the most part these people are here undocumented because they have expired visas.

3. I am not Hispanic nor is any member of my immediate or extended family but I have lived in Mexico for 3 years and think I understand this issue rather well.

 

[Rustic]

Oh make no mistake, the wall is definitely needed to keep out "undesirables". No one doing well in Mexico is trying to get here. We get the most desperate of desperate. Uneducated, third world types with no moral compass, the lowest grade of human is what we get. We get the type that just can't make it in our system without a lifelong hand holding from government. They can't qualify to hold jobs that pay enough for their families of seven that are forever growing due to ignorance.
This is a no-brainer for a third grader...All people have to do is pull their head out of their utopian ass for a second to see it.

Alternatively we could just stop offering welfare completely, not build a wall, and save money all around.

Welfare is another subject.
We spend 113 billion on illegals every year...the cost to build the wall and heavily defend it doesn't get anywhere close to that figure. It's a retarded debate to spend any time on.

You have said several times that illegals are costing the country 113 billion dollars so I decided to research the figure.

This figure comes from a report done by FAIR,

Federation for American Immigration Reform, (link below). They advocate changes in immigration policy which would reduce or eliminate immigration, both legal and illegal. It is founded by Charles Stewart Mott, a leader of many anti-immigration groups, so one would not expect and impartial analysis which it isn't. Here are some of the problems with this report:

• Taking into account payments made by undocumented immigrants, the actually number drops to 99 billion.
• FAIR includes 3.4 million children which are US citizens which reduces the figure to 90 billion.
• FAIR uses and estimate of 13 billion total illegal immigrants. Homeland Security estimates 11.3 billion and Pew estimates 11.4. Using the more realist estimate of these organization, the amount drops to 76 billion.
• The FAIR report makes the broad assumption that illegal immigrants contribute nothing to the economy. Their jobs would be filled by America citizens at the same pay. No one with any knowledge of the labor market would agree.
• FAIR also includes about $2.47 billion in fraudulent use of Medicaid, although there is no data to support this.
• The report also assumes that all children of illegal immigrants are in school all the time when in fact we know that the children of many illegal immigrants attend school much less than half the year.
• The report also assumes that all children of illegal immigrants require special treatment in school, primarily language assistance which is again not true.

Yet, Trump and his supporters continue to quote this report as if were Gospel handed down from the Divine. This follows with most of what comes from Trump, huge exaggerations with little basis in fact. Other anti-immigration groups have estimates, all of which are much less that 113 billion. Pro-immigration groups claim the contributions of illegal immigrants out weigh the costs, a statement I doubt but it may not be too far from the truth.
http://www.fairus.org/DocServer/research-pub/USCostStudy_2013upd.pdf
Trump says illegal immigration costs $113 billion a year

Before I engage, let me ask you a few things:
1) I'm sure you really, really want to believe that illegals cost American's nothing...but based on all your due diligence and an extensive collection of data what do you estimate the annual cost to be? What kind of silly, desperate semantics are we really playing here?

2) How do you put a number on the damage they are doing to America on a social level? Infrastructure improvements to accommodate population growth as they procreate like rodents? The recreation of more of their system dependent same? The uninsured and underinsured drivers involved in accidents? The cash paid to day laborers paid under the table? The trash, dirty diapers and filth they leave behind everywhere they go?

3) What part of Mexico are you and your recent descendants from?

I don't usually answer questions like this but I'll make a special exception just for you.
1) I don't know and no one else does because undocumented immigrants are undocumented. I'm ok with estimates as long as they are treated as such. My best guess is that undocumented immigrants cost the federal and state governments in services about 50 to 80 billion a year. However, there are offsets. Undocumented immigrants pay sales taxes, property taxes, incomes taxes, Social Security and Medicare. They also perform jobs that most Americans would only do at a much higher wage. I do believe we need to rid ourselves of undocumented immigrants but not the way Trump plans.

2) You are not describing undocumented immigrants per se, but those living in abject poverty. There is no way you can look at a person and accurately determine if they are undocumented. People without documentation live in exactly the same neighborhoods as those that are documented. A few live in wealthy neighbors, many live in low income working class neighborhoods and others live in poverty stricken areas. The families are mostly Hispanic but are mixed. Some are US citizens and some aren't. Some have work permits and some don't.

60% of undocumented immigrants come from Mexico. The remaining 40% come from all over the world. Unlike Mexican immigrants, most of them are not living in poverty. They not only have jobs but many have good jobs working in major corporations pulling down good salaries. For the most part these people are here undocumented because they have expired visas.

3. I am not Hispanic nor is any member of my immediate or extended family but I have lived in Mexico for 3 years and think I understand this issue rather well.

I say with all the illegal alien workers that they continue to remain living in the shadows…

 

[Flopper]

Weird. I'm pretty sure he just spent well over a year campaigning for a political office and won. That would make him a politician.

Do you think he really thought he would win?

Do I think the textbook definition of a narcissist thought he would win? I'd say it's a fair bet that he did. Maybe not, but it's irrelevant. He ran a political campaign, thus he is a politician.

NEGATIVE!
He's a masterful problem solver playing the role of politician.
A politician finds the most crooked and distorted route between point A and point B
A problem solver finds the shortest straightest route from point A to point B

You're welcome for the free lesson.

A masterful problem solver? More likely a masterful conman.

You think his plan for keeping Muslims out the country was that of a master problem solver.
He gives no notice to airlines, so they are putting people on planes for the US that will be denied entry. Immigration agents have no idea what they're doing because there were no procedures for them to follow. Some people from banned countries walk right through immigration and others were detained. Families waiting for loved one at immigration were being told nothing. The airlines would confirm only that that the plane landed. Crowds gathered and there were protest in over dozen airports. Several Muslims countries announced they were consider retaliation. The Olympic Committee is concerned about Muslim athletes training in the US for the 2020 Olympics. Several Universities have told students from Muslim countries not leave the US because they may not be able to return. 4 federal judges granted temporary stays on key parts of the orders.

And what did our master problem solver have to say about how well his plan is working. Tremendous, just tremendous, look at the airports across the countries. Views did and saw chaos, confusion, and worried family members.

Great Job Mr. Master Problem Solver. How is someone who can't smoothly pull off something as simple as this going to handle a project as big as the Wall which will effect millions of people for years.

You would prefer he wait?

Screw that. We've been waiting for some Common Sense for far too long.

So a couple people got stuck as airports. whoopdie freaking due.

I would prefer he didn't do it all. However, if he's going to do it he should at least do it in an organized manner. Check to make sure EOs are legal, immigration agents should understand exactly what they should do. People with work permits and student visas should be allowed to return to their jobs and schools here in the States. Airlines should be told what is going on so their passengers aren't denied entry and they aren't sent home. This hurts a lot innocent people. I know Trump doesn't give damn but a lot of Americans do and I suspect some of them actually voted for him.

 

[Correll]

The

Do you think he really thought he would win?

Do I think the textbook definition of a narcissist thought he would win? I'd say it's a fair bet that he did. Maybe not, but it's irrelevant. He ran a political campaign, thus he is a politician.

NEGATIVE!
He's a masterful problem solver playing the role of politician.
A politician finds the most crooked and distorted route between point A and point B
A problem solver finds the shortest straightest route from point A to point B

You're welcome for the free lesson.

A masterful problem solver? More likely a masterful conman.

You think his plan for keeping Muslims out the country was that of a master problem solver.
He gives no notice to airlines, so they are putting people on planes for the US that will be denied entry. Immigration agents have no idea what they're doing because there were no procedures for them to follow. Some people from banned countries walk right through immigration and others were detained. Families waiting for loved one at immigration were being told nothing. The airlines would confirm only that that the plane landed. Crowds gathered and there were protest in over dozen airports. Several Muslims countries announced they were consider retaliation. The Olympic Committee is concerned about Muslim athletes training in the US for the 2020 Olympics. Several Universities have told students from Muslim countries not leave the US because they may not be able to return. 4 federal judges granted temporary stays on key parts of the orders.

And what did our master problem solver have to say about how well his plan is working. Tremendous, just tremendous, look at the airports across the countries. Views did and saw chaos, confusion, and worried family members.

Great Job Mr. Master Problem Solver. How is someone who can't smoothly pull off something as simple as this going to handle a project as big as the Wall which will effect millions of people for years.

You would prefer he wait?

Screw that. We've been waiting for some Common Sense for far too long.

So a couple people got stuck as airports. whoopdie freaking due.

I would prefer he didn't do it all. However, if he's going to do it he should at least do it in an organized manner. Check to make sure EOs are legal, immigration agents should understand exactly what they should do. People with work permits and student visas should be allowed to return to their jobs and schools here in the States. Airlines should be told what is going on so their passengers aren't denied entry and they aren't sent home. This hurts a lot innocent people. I know Trump doesn't give damn but a lot of Americans do and I suspect some of them actually voted for him.

Sorry, but I don't believe you.

I think that no matter how long he waited, or how careful he was, that the reaction from you and the nay sayers would be effectively the same.


NO matter what, lefty lawyers are going to fight, and lefty judges will help them.

No matter what, the media will find the best (or worst) poster boy for their attacks. Someone somewhere will always be hurt.

And if not, the media will just lie.