"Brownie....You're Doin' A Helluva Job"

[Faun]

So you're OK then just driving 2 hours north of the city and leaving people in buses instead of in shelters where the storm could have wiped away thousands more?

people were left in buses because of the incompetence of nagin and blanco, not FEMA or Bush.

As to shelters, there were none that did not flood, thats why they all went to the superdome.

The problems were local, not federal. FEMA, the USCG, the national guard, and volunteers from all over were the heroes.

Where are we getting this "people left on buses" story? A day ago it was "the buses never ran" -- now they ran?

And what the hell does the governor have to do with where city buses go?

Blanco finally got school buses from other cities to go to New Orleans and start evacuating people after the storm was over. She, for some reason, didn't have the same worries about "insurance liability" that Ray Nagin did when he failed to use New Orlean's school buses to do the exact same thing BEFORE the storm hit!

Because the plan was to stick people on buses, drive them out of the city and wait for the storm to pass before driving them back. You can't see the liability of putting people on buses in the path of a category 5 hurricane because you truly are as brain-dead as you appear. Moreso even. The safest place for those folks was the Superdome.

Actually the safest place for those people would have been the Houston Astrodome...where they could have been if Ray Nagin hadn't been such an incompetent idiot.

Now you're abandoning your position again.

Figures since your original position was completely ignorant.

While driving them to the Astrodome may have been a good idea ... it wasn't the plan. You know, the plan you've been saying all along Nagin should have stuck to; which was to drive north of the city and wait for the hurricane to pass.

Now you abandon your own position that Nagin should have followed the plan in favor of him not following the plan -- which is what he did.

 

[Oldstyle]

people were left in buses because of the incompetence of nagin and blanco, not FEMA or Bush.

As to shelters, there were none that did not flood, thats why they all went to the superdome.

The problems were local, not federal. FEMA, the USCG, the national guard, and volunteers from all over were the heroes.

No one was left on buses. Where do you get your information from?? And the city did what cities do under these circumstances. ... get folks to shelters. While the city made some mistakes, FEMA taking a week to show up was unconscionable.

The city made "some" mistakes?

Once again...since you seem to have such a hard time comprehending what it is that FEMA does...they are not first responders...they are the people who come in AFTER a disaster and fix things. The reason that you are told over and over again that you need to stockpile enough food & water to last you a minimum of five days is that it typically takes that long for FEMA to get it's people and equipment into place. With a situation like New Orleans which after the flooding essentially became a large punch bowl filled with toxic waters...that typical response time was optimistic at best and that was apparent as soon as the levees were breached and the city was 80% flooded. Then you had additional issues compounding the task that FEMA faced...namely a serious lack of security in the city with widespread looting and violence. There were idiots actually shooting at helicopters trying to deliver desperately needed materials to those trapped by floodwaters. What do you think the response to that is going to be? A rush to send more people into harm's way...or an immediate cessation of rescue activities in that area? When you examine what FEMA was up against in New Orleans...they actually did yeoman work to get aid to those people as quickly as they did. But that wasn't the narrative that the national media went with. The national media ran with the narrative that FEMA had somehow dropped the ball because they DIDN'T get emergency supplies into the city faster than they did. They listened to Ray Nagin when he pointed fingers at the Feds and said that THEY were the problem.

Too fucking retarded.

No one is blaming FEMA for not being a first responder. They took heat for not showing up after the storm passed.

They DID show up after the storm passed. What they DIDN'T do was show up fast enough to mitigate the damage that was done by piss poor local leadership! What they DIDN'T do was show up fast enough to rescue tens of thousands of people who shouldn't have even still been in the city if New Orleans had a Mayor who wasn't too busy collecting bribes to do his job!

They showed up a week late. They even admitted they waited because of the ensuing chaos following the storm. You probably think Brown was fired because he was a scapegoat and not due to his malfeasance.

FEMA did not show up a week late...they were delayed getting help to New Orleans because the damage done to the area hampered relief efforts. There was extensive flooding. There was extensive damage done to most of the area's roadways. There were concerns over security with looting and shootings reported throughout the city.

 

[Faun]

No one was left on buses. Where do you get your information from?? And the city did what cities do under these circumstances. ... get folks to shelters. While the city made some mistakes, FEMA taking a week to show up was unconscionable.

I realize you are a partisan with no interest in facts, but the claim that the city reacted appropriately is beyond the pale, even for a complete hack like you.

Far left Vanity Fair reported;

{
Mayor Nagin decided to cloister himself in the Hyatt hotel, which loomed over the Superdome, a locale the mayor chose not to speak at, presumably fearing reprisals from evacuees enraged at what many perceived as his lax response to the hurricane—charges Nagin would vigorously refute, saying, “There was no way to pull [a speech] off. There was no megaphone system. There was no microphone.” Many of the Hyatt’s windows had blown out. The building swayed in the winds, a jagged, gaping monstrosity. He decided to make the hotel his Emergency Operations Center, virtually abandoning City Hall because his bodyguards had told him the Hyatt “was safer.”

In the coming days, Nagin often divided his time between an office lair on the 27th floor, the 17th floor (where he had sleeping quarters), and the 4th floor (which had electrical power). While certain mayors in the storm’s path were out and about, putting their lives at risk on Monday afternoon, raising morale and checking up on everything after Katrina’s onslaught, Nagin was comparatively sedentary, getting the latest news courtesy of a hand-cranked radio straight out of The Waltons. To many, he appeared to be a commander stuck in his bunker.}

How New Orleans Drowned

Did I say Nagin acted appropriately? Why no, I didn't. Unfortunately, your inability to comprehend what you read leads you astray once again.

 

[Oldstyle]

people were left in buses because of the incompetence of nagin and blanco, not FEMA or Bush.

As to shelters, there were none that did not flood, thats why they all went to the superdome.

The problems were local, not federal. FEMA, the USCG, the national guard, and volunteers from all over were the heroes.

Where are we getting this "people left on buses" story? A day ago it was "the buses never ran" -- now they ran?

And what the hell does the governor have to do with where city buses go?

Blanco finally got school buses from other cities to go to New Orleans and start evacuating people after the storm was over. She, for some reason, didn't have the same worries about "insurance liability" that Ray Nagin did when he failed to use New Orlean's school buses to do the exact same thing BEFORE the storm hit!

Where exactly are you getting this malarkey about "insurance liability"?
No pictures please. I'm not a proctologist.

The excuse that Ray Nagin used for why he didn't use school buses to evacuate people was that he had concerns over insurance liability. Malarkey? Without question! It was total bullshit when Nagin said it!

Link?

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin was also criticized for failing to implement his evacuation plan and for ordering residents to a shelter of last resort without any provisions for food, water, security, or sanitary conditions. Perhaps the most important criticism of Nagin is that he delayed his emergency evacuation order until less than a day before landfall, which led to hundreds of deaths of people who (by that time) could not find any way out of the city.[2] Adding to the criticism was the broadcast of school bus parking lots full of yellow school buses which Mayor Nagin refused to be used in evacuation. When asked why the buses were not used to assist evacuations instead of holing up in the Superdome, Nagin cited the lack of insurance liability and shortage of bus drivers.[3] Wiki

 

[Oldstyle]

The bottom line is that for people stranded in low lying areas because they didn't have vehicles to get out and Ray Nagin at the last moment deciding that insurance liability was a bigger problem than people dying...ANYWHERE outside of New Orleans was going to be safer than somewhere with twelve feet of flood waters!

If a white politician had done what Nagin did...he would have been taken over the coals for turning his back on what was essentially poor black neighborhoods! But since it was a black Mayor not caring about poor blacks...Nagin got a pass and it was Michael Brown that was the "bad guy"!

So you're OK then just driving 2 hours north of the city and leaving people in buses instead of in shelters where the storm could have wiped away thousands more?

Well, gee...Faun! Where would you rather be...sitting inside a school bus two hours north of New Orleans getting rained on...or sitting in your fifteen foot high house with twelve feet of flood waters outside in New Orleans?

I'm going with option A on that one but that's just me!

Your attempts to excuse what Nagin did are about as pathetic as his handling of the emergency!

Driving north and leaving people on buses when a hurricane is coming is insanity. No wonder you choose that option. Had you, Darwin's theory would have taken care of your blunder.

Driving due north was YOUR idea, Sparky! All I've done is point out that as stupid an idea as that was...it was STILL better than stranding people in low lying areas as a killer storm approached.

Driving north and leaving people on buses was not my idea, dumbfuck. It's not my fault you can't read.

That was the plan you've been saying they should have gone with.

Only an idiot would drive due north when the storm was also heading due north...the logical plan would be to go west towards Houston, Texas. Obviously "logic" is not your strong point!

 

[Faun]

Where are we getting this "people left on buses" story? A day ago it was "the buses never ran" -- now they ran?

And what the hell does the governor have to do with where city buses go?

Blanco finally got school buses from other cities to go to New Orleans and start evacuating people after the storm was over. She, for some reason, didn't have the same worries about "insurance liability" that Ray Nagin did when he failed to use New Orlean's school buses to do the exact same thing BEFORE the storm hit!

Where exactly are you getting this malarkey about "insurance liability"?
No pictures please. I'm not a proctologist.

The excuse that Ray Nagin used for why he didn't use school buses to evacuate people was that he had concerns over insurance liability. Malarkey? Without question! It was total bullshit when Nagin said it!

Link?

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin was also criticized for failing to implement his evacuation plan and for ordering residents to a shelter of last resort without any provisions for food, water, security, or sanitary conditions. Perhaps the most important criticism of Nagin is that he delayed his emergency evacuation order until less than a day before landfall, which led to hundreds of deaths of people who (by that time) could not find any way out of the city.[2] Adding to the criticism was the broadcast of school bus parking lots full of yellow school buses which Mayor Nagin refused to be used in evacuation. When asked why the buses were not used to assist evacuations instead of holing up in the Superdome, Nagin cited the lack of insurance liability and shortage of bus drivers.[3] Wiki

I already acknowledged his delaying mandatory evacuations was a mistake. As far as not providing shelters with enough supplies ... they had enough supplies for a few days. Had FEMA showed up in a reasonable time, their supplies would not have been exhausted. And the idiocy of the school buses has already caused you to abandon your idiocy that Nagin should have stuck to the plan, which was to drive residents north of the city to ride out the storm. Even you finally admitted it was a stupid plan. Yet here you are, criticizing Nagin again for not putting people on buses in the path of a cat 5 hurricane.

 

[Faun]

So you're OK then just driving 2 hours north of the city and leaving people in buses instead of in shelters where the storm could have wiped away thousands more?

Well, gee...Faun! Where would you rather be...sitting inside a school bus two hours north of New Orleans getting rained on...or sitting in your fifteen foot high house with twelve feet of flood waters outside in New Orleans?

I'm going with option A on that one but that's just me!

Your attempts to excuse what Nagin did are about as pathetic as his handling of the emergency!

Driving north and leaving people on buses when a hurricane is coming is insanity. No wonder you choose that option. Had you, Darwin's theory would have taken care of your blunder.

Driving due north was YOUR idea, Sparky! All I've done is point out that as stupid an idea as that was...it was STILL better than stranding people in low lying areas as a killer storm approached.

Driving north and leaving people on buses was not my idea, dumbfuck. It's not my fault you can't read.

That was the plan you've been saying they should have gone with.

Only an idiot would drive due north when the storm was also heading due north...the logical plan would be to go west towards Houston, Texas. Obviously "logic" is not your strong point!

You really are too fucking retarded to comprehend English. What a pity. Driving north was the plan you criticize Nagin for not sticking to. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? You get hit in the head by a coconut during hurricane Charley?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Did I say Nagin acted appropriately? Why no, I didn't. Unfortunately, your inability to comprehend what you read leads you astray once again.

Don't hurt yourself doing that 180 - you could get whiplash.

As a reminder, what you claimed was {the city did what cities do under these circumstances} which is false.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You really are too fucking retarded to comprehend English. What a pity. Driving north was the plan you criticize Nagin for not sticking to. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? You get hit in the head by a coconut during hurricane Charley?

You get angry when the talking points you post are refuted.

This is because you have no ability to counter facts and are left empty handed.

 

[Pogo]

So you're OK then just driving 2 hours north of the city and leaving people in buses instead of in shelters where the storm could have wiped away thousands more?

Well, gee...Faun! Where would you rather be...sitting inside a school bus two hours north of New Orleans getting rained on...or sitting in your fifteen foot high house with twelve feet of flood waters outside in New Orleans?

I'm going with option A on that one but that's just me!

Your attempts to excuse what Nagin did are about as pathetic as his handling of the emergency!

Driving north and leaving people on buses when a hurricane is coming is insanity. No wonder you choose that option. Had you, Darwin's theory would have taken care of your blunder.

Driving due north was YOUR idea, Sparky! All I've done is point out that as stupid an idea as that was...it was STILL better than stranding people in low lying areas as a killer storm approached.

Driving north and leaving people on buses was not my idea, dumbfuck. It's not my fault you can't read.

That was the plan you've been saying they should have gone with.

Only an idiot would drive due north when the storm was also heading due north...the logical plan would be to go west towards Houston, Texas. Obviously "logic" is not your strong point!

Obviiously it isn't yours, because the quickest way to get away from something is to drive directly away from it, which means directly away from the water, which is its fuel source.

What if you drive toward Houston -- kind of a disgusting idea all by itself-- and the storm turns toward you? What have you gained then, East Jipip Boy? A hurricane system can be several hundred miles wide.

Hurricanes move faster than everyday weather systems but they do NOT move as fast as a car can drive. I've outrun more storms by knowing where the weather is than you've made stupid posts here.

Well, almost that many.

I went about 120 miles north and 60 miles west. The north part was what got me clear. All I saw of Katrina where I was was enough wind to snap a few tree branches and some rain. That's it.

 

[Oldstyle]

Blanco finally got school buses from other cities to go to New Orleans and start evacuating people after the storm was over. She, for some reason, didn't have the same worries about "insurance liability" that Ray Nagin did when he failed to use New Orlean's school buses to do the exact same thing BEFORE the storm hit!

Where exactly are you getting this malarkey about "insurance liability"?
No pictures please. I'm not a proctologist.

The excuse that Ray Nagin used for why he didn't use school buses to evacuate people was that he had concerns over insurance liability. Malarkey? Without question! It was total bullshit when Nagin said it!

Link?

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin was also criticized for failing to implement his evacuation plan and for ordering residents to a shelter of last resort without any provisions for food, water, security, or sanitary conditions. Perhaps the most important criticism of Nagin is that he delayed his emergency evacuation order until less than a day before landfall, which led to hundreds of deaths of people who (by that time) could not find any way out of the city.[2] Adding to the criticism was the broadcast of school bus parking lots full of yellow school buses which Mayor Nagin refused to be used in evacuation. When asked why the buses were not used to assist evacuations instead of holing up in the Superdome, Nagin cited the lack of insurance liability and shortage of bus drivers.[3] Wiki

I already acknowledged his delaying mandatory evacuations was a mistake. As far as not providing shelters with enough supplies ... they had enough supplies for a few days. Had FEMA showed up in a reasonable time, their supplies would not have been exhausted. And the idiocy of the school buses has already caused you to abandon your idiocy that Nagin should have stuck to the plan, which was to drive residents north of the city to ride out the storm. Even you finally admitted it was a stupid plan. Yet here you are, criticizing Nagin again for not putting people on buses in the path of a cat 5 hurricane.

A few days? Do you not understand the concept when people are told to have a MINIMUM of five days food and water if they're not going to evacuate? Why would private citizens be told that REPEATEDLY on public service messages about hurricane preparedness but then public officials would only have enough food and water to last a few days?

When did anyone here other than yourself say that hurricane evacuation plans were to drive people north? Where people evacuate in the face of a hurricane is totally dependent on what the hurricane's path is predicted to be. Obviously if Katrina was predicted to go due north then the prudent evacuation route would be to the west if possible or to the east if that was all that was available. What I "admitted" was that YOUR plan to drive people due north was stupid...but it was far superior to Nagin's complete lack of a plan to get them out of the city!

 

[Oldstyle]

Well, gee...Faun! Where would you rather be...sitting inside a school bus two hours north of New Orleans getting rained on...or sitting in your fifteen foot high house with twelve feet of flood waters outside in New Orleans?

I'm going with option A on that one but that's just me!

Your attempts to excuse what Nagin did are about as pathetic as his handling of the emergency!

Driving north and leaving people on buses when a hurricane is coming is insanity. No wonder you choose that option. Had you, Darwin's theory would have taken care of your blunder.

Driving due north was YOUR idea, Sparky! All I've done is point out that as stupid an idea as that was...it was STILL better than stranding people in low lying areas as a killer storm approached.

Driving north and leaving people on buses was not my idea, dumbfuck. It's not my fault you can't read.

That was the plan you've been saying they should have gone with.

Only an idiot would drive due north when the storm was also heading due north...the logical plan would be to go west towards Houston, Texas. Obviously "logic" is not your strong point!

Obviiously it isn't yours, because the quickest way to get away from something is to drive directly away from it, which means directly away from the water, which is its fuel source.

What if you drive toward Houston -- kind of a disgusting idea all by itself-- and the storm turns toward you? What have you gained then, East Jipip Boy? A hurricane system can be several hundred miles wide.

Hurricanes move faster than everyday weather systems but they do NOT move as fast as a car can drive. I've outrun more storms by knowing where the weather is than you've made stupid posts here.

Well, almost that many.

I went about 120 miles north and 60 miles west. The north part was what got me clear. All I saw of Katrina where I was was enough wind to snap a few tree branches and some rain. That's it.

If you weren't totally clueless about hurricanes then you'd know that the dangerous side of a hurricane is the right side. That's where the heaviest rains and winds are normally found. If I were leaving New Orleans with hurricane Katrina headed my way with the path that they projected...I would have headed west...away from the storm's most dangerous side.

And a hurricane moves at variable speeds. It might stop completely and stay in one place for hours, dumping huge amounts of rain...or it might move through an area at a high rate of speed in which case there is less flooding damage and more wind damage.

 

[Faun]

Did I say Nagin acted appropriately? Why no, I didn't. Unfortunately, your inability to comprehend what you read leads you astray once again.

Don't hurt yourself doing that 180 - you could get whiplash.

As a reminder, what you claimed was {the city did what cities do under these circumstances} which is false.

Imbecile... cities with evacuation plans help get their residents to shelters as a storm approaches. That's what Nagin did. Does that mean he didn't do anything else inappropriately? Of course not. You simply lack the wherewithal to keep up.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Remember Katrina and George W. Bush's totally unbelievable mishandling of the massive destruction and death in Louisiana, and Mississippi? I Do!

It wasn't as bad and irresponsible as Iraq but it was in the game.

This just in:

W is no longer President.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Imbecile... cities with evacuation plans help get their residents to shelters as a storm approaches. That's what Nagin did. Does that mean he didn't do anything else inappropriately? Of course not. You simply lack the wherewithal to keep up.

Except of course that isn't what he did. Too busy grandstanding to be bothered with relief efforts.

 

[Faun]

You really are too fucking retarded to comprehend English. What a pity. Driving north was the plan you criticize Nagin for not sticking to. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? You get hit in the head by a coconut during hurricane Charley?

You get angry when the talking points you post are refuted.

This is because you have no ability to counter facts and are left empty handed.

I have little patience for such abject ignorance as yours. Grow your brain and then we can talk.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I have little patience for such abject ignorance as yours. Grow your brain and then we can talk.

You were proven wrong. Get some new talking points and get on with life....

 

[Faun]

Where exactly are you getting this malarkey about "insurance liability"?
No pictures please. I'm not a proctologist.

The excuse that Ray Nagin used for why he didn't use school buses to evacuate people was that he had concerns over insurance liability. Malarkey? Without question! It was total bullshit when Nagin said it!

Link?

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin was also criticized for failing to implement his evacuation plan and for ordering residents to a shelter of last resort without any provisions for food, water, security, or sanitary conditions. Perhaps the most important criticism of Nagin is that he delayed his emergency evacuation order until less than a day before landfall, which led to hundreds of deaths of people who (by that time) could not find any way out of the city.[2] Adding to the criticism was the broadcast of school bus parking lots full of yellow school buses which Mayor Nagin refused to be used in evacuation. When asked why the buses were not used to assist evacuations instead of holing up in the Superdome, Nagin cited the lack of insurance liability and shortage of bus drivers.[3] Wiki

I already acknowledged his delaying mandatory evacuations was a mistake. As far as not providing shelters with enough supplies ... they had enough supplies for a few days. Had FEMA showed up in a reasonable time, their supplies would not have been exhausted. And the idiocy of the school buses has already caused you to abandon your idiocy that Nagin should have stuck to the plan, which was to drive residents north of the city to ride out the storm. Even you finally admitted it was a stupid plan. Yet here you are, criticizing Nagin again for not putting people on buses in the path of a cat 5 hurricane.

A few days? Do you not understand the concept when people are told to have a MINIMUM of five days food and water if they're not going to evacuate? Why would private citizens be told that REPEATEDLY on public service messages about hurricane preparedness but then public officials would only have enough food and water to last a few days?

When did anyone here other than yourself say that hurricane evacuation plans were to drive people north? Where people evacuate in the face of a hurricane is totally dependent on what the hurricane's path is predicted to be. Obviously if Katrina was predicted to go due north then the prudent evacuation route would be to the west if possible or to the east if that was all that was available. What I "admitted" was that YOUR plan to drive people due north was stupid...but it was far superior to Nagin's complete lack of a plan to get them out of the city!

A shelter is not a hotel. They don't provide everything suggested to people to stock up on at home. And in the case of Katrina, they knew they lacked sufficient resources before the storm even hit, which is why they asked the federal government for assistance. Still, they had a few days provisions and an expectation that the federal government they begged for help would actually show up in a reasonable amount of time. Instead, FEMA gave excuses why they were delaying help.

As far as the plan to drive people north on buses to wait out the storm .... for the 4th time, that was New Orleans' plan, not mine. I'm the one here posting it because I'm the one here showing you what the plan was that you keep criticizing Nagin for not following. How many more times do you imagine I'm going to have to explain that to you until you finally understand that busing folks 2 hours north of the city was not my plan? 8? 10? 20? How many times?

 

[Faun]

I have little patience for such abject ignorance as yours. Grow your brain and then we can talk.

You were proven wrong. Get some new talking points and get on with life....

You little thinkers crack me up. You ascribe to me words I never said and then think you proved me wrong.


Like I said, grow your brain, then we can talk. Comparing your brain to that of Terri Schiavo's, I'm estimating you're about three pounds shy at the moment.

 

[Faun]

Driving north and leaving people on buses when a hurricane is coming is insanity. No wonder you choose that option. Had you, Darwin's theory would have taken care of your blunder.

Driving due north was YOUR idea, Sparky! All I've done is point out that as stupid an idea as that was...it was STILL better than stranding people in low lying areas as a killer storm approached.

Driving north and leaving people on buses was not my idea, dumbfuck. It's not my fault you can't read.

That was the plan you've been saying they should have gone with.

Only an idiot would drive due north when the storm was also heading due north...the logical plan would be to go west towards Houston, Texas. Obviously "logic" is not your strong point!

Obviiously it isn't yours, because the quickest way to get away from something is to drive directly away from it, which means directly away from the water, which is its fuel source.

What if you drive toward Houston -- kind of a disgusting idea all by itself-- and the storm turns toward you? What have you gained then, East Jipip Boy? A hurricane system can be several hundred miles wide.

Hurricanes move faster than everyday weather systems but they do NOT move as fast as a car can drive. I've outrun more storms by knowing where the weather is than you've made stupid posts here.

Well, almost that many.

I went about 120 miles north and 60 miles west. The north part was what got me clear. All I saw of Katrina where I was was enough wind to snap a few tree branches and some rain. That's it.

If you weren't totally clueless about hurricanes then you'd know that the dangerous side of a hurricane is the right side. That's where the heaviest rains and winds are normally found. If I were leaving New Orleans with hurricane Katrina headed my way with the path that they projected...I would have headed west...away from the storm's most dangerous side.

You really do have serious issues with reading comprehension. Pogo already told you that.

"In New Orleans you'd go west, not east, because east would put you on the wet side -- the wind coming off the water -- rather than the west side, coming off land where that water's been largely drained. Which you have to do anyway in order to go NORTH." - @Pogo​